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Emotional abuse and cults in RP sims


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I am interested in people's experiences with abusive or manipulative sim owners and admins and cult-like sims.  Linden can't police this and takes the position that a sim owner can do whatever they like, but is there anything that people can do in response to bad acts by sim owners?  Is there an equivalent of the "Grey List" to at least share data about abusive owners/admins?  Some of what I have experienced would be legally actionable if it occurred in RL, but is anyone aware of anyone every subpoenaing Linden to find the RL bad actors?

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This sounds like a SL complaint ,  does not sound like a thread about role play.

If the thread is referring to  a role play sim however,  whatever "cult" experience there presumably is the role play .  Its not our place to choose other peoople's role play as long as its inside the TOS and the only rp I know of thats not is age.

There are a MILLION roleplays available in SL that can be called "cult like"  or "offensive" depending on who you are. There's folks who don't like what the other guy wants to play at. But he still has a right to as long as he says what his sim/location is about, it has an appropriate rating, the land is privately owned,  and you are not kept on it against your will.

If you landed and the information giver of the place said "Welcome, we abuse gay/black/catholic people here. Get your tag to tell us which you are and if you want to be the abused or the abuser" that is rp and its legal.

If you referring to someone being told something like "you can't be on this sim, your profile says you're gay/black/catholic and I hate gay/black/catholic people", thats something else and you should file a report.

--||-
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Thanks for your reply, Sin.  I am talking about something a little different.  RP sims where abuse and cults are part of the IC theme are fine (and I like them!), but people can become so emotionally invested in RP sims that the people in authority can use that to cause OOC abuse and manipulation.  If this doesn't cross certain lines (demanding money, etc.), it doesn't violate the TOS (and isn't the sort of thing that LL could police anyway).  I posted this in the RP forum because it comes up in the context of people using RP sim structures as a basis for OOC abuse.  In the specific case I am thinking about, a multi-level certification process was used to get people invested.. not unlike some RL cults...  but then one of the admins kept trying to dom me OOC (he owns most of the other admins and owners OOC) and banned me when I didn't buy in.  Being banned is fine.. it's within the owners' rights, and there is nothing wrong with IC certifications and rituals... But when this is used as a tool for OOC abuse and crosses the line into what would be actionable intentional inflection of emotional distress in RL , I think something should be done. The question is what.

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

I am interested in people's experiences with abusive or manipulative sim owners and admins and cult-like sims.  Linden can't police this and takes the position that a sim owner can do whatever they like, but is there anything that people can do in response to bad acts by sim owners?  Is there an equivalent of the "Grey List" to at least share data about abusive owners/admins?  Some of what I have experienced would be legally actionable if it occurred in RL, but is anyone aware of anyone every subpoenaing Linden to find the RL bad actors?

"... is anyone aware of anyone every subpoenaing Linden to find the RL bad actors"

No, I'm not aware, but there is always a first time, and probably will be. If you feel strongly enough about this, and if it really is stuff that would be legally actionable in Real Life you could be the one to set the benchmark.

As for what people can do though generally in Second Life, I think of Second Life as being Linden Lab's back garden; you can report to them what you believe is wrong/illegal, but you have to leave it up to LL to use their own judgement as to whether to take action and chuck the wrongdoers out of their garden.

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o.O Investing money?

First thing, who is crazy enough to give somebody in SL some rl money talking about "an investment"?? It sounds like you ran away from these people. Only rational move. If there's folks out there who didnt', then this is a matter of someone who owns a sim, using it to facilitate a real world  scam (issue number one) and harrassing those they can't dupe (issue number two).

Sounds like something LL would want to know about and might contact someone over

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Not investing money.. becoming "invested" in the emotional sense.. spending weeks or months on a certificatoin process and then being asked to put up with OOC abuse or to change their avatar completely to remain at the sim.  Maybe a hypothetical scenario (not what actually happened to me) will explain what I mean:  X spends three months at sim Y on a 12-level certification process, 2 or 3 hours a day.. all her friends are at sim Y, it is her SL home.. then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.  That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

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Hi Waif

This sounds to me like power tripping gone bad in an area where owner/sub/slave role play is involved. Some of the things you have said lead me to this conclusion, like the sim owner owning peoples owning the other admins ooc.

The first thing you should remember is you can't control other peoples actions. This passive aggressiveness is RIPE all over in these kinds of sims because the Tops often find themselves in positions where you have girls coming in who enjoy this role play or who are exploring a side of them in a "safe" online environment and say to themselves "If they didn't want to be controlled they wouldn't be here role play or not."

Two, this may not be a role play scenario to them. They may fashion themselves "Master" without the real knowledge of how such a relationship really works, without having read the background of the theme you are roleplaying in, or they are just making it up as they go along.

Three, sim owners think they are god , and to LL in a sense they are. They control the ban lists, the estate powers and the set their own rules and LL doesn't interfere.

I am sorry you ran into such people, and yes I do have some experience with this as I rp in such a setting and have a real relation with a few of them.There are bad apples in any group of people.

The best thing you can do honestly is chalk it up to a learning experience, that ban was probably the best thing for you in a sense as now you can find a better place to call home. I understand too the emotional investment and time investments you have made. Focus on what you liked about you time/emotions there and look to the heavens and say "NEXT!" You will feel better and happier. Trying to LL to help you with this will be a lesson in futility and if you can let your hurt or anger go and move forward you will find rich RP out there I am sure. It does exisist.

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I reached out to Linden when this first happened and they said it doesn;t violate the TOS.  In fairness, they can't get pulled into every OOC fight peopel have, so I don't blame them.  I guess I see SL not so much as a back garden but as a sandlot where people gather to play games.  The owner isn;t even around so can't prevent fights, but if teh bullying gets too bad somoen should step in.  Lawsuits are expensive (though I suspect that the mere threat of one woudl cause Linder to shut down the offending sim).  I think what is needed is somethink like the Grey List for sim owners and admins.  i just lack the programming ability to set it up.

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Good advice, Avalon...and I agree  with what you are saying,  I had pretty much moved on until I saw them doing something similar to a close friend who didn't leave the sim.  I just want to figure out a way to stop these guys from hurting other people.  The sim is mostly dead (when the bad admin took over, most of the old players left), but it is limping along and I think they are actively recuiting low self esteem types, so this bad stuff will continue.  I guess everyone has to learn through there own bad expereinces, but it's a shame to see a pattern of abuse repeated.  Thanks for everyone's kind words.

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I think as adults, we all need to take responsibility for our own actions.  I equate entering someone's sim as visiting their home in RL, even the commercial sims since the same rules apply.  If you don't like their company, then you leave.  A lot of what goes on in sl has to do with morality, judgement, differing cultures, etc. which in most instances is impossible to police.  Even LL leaves the TOS enforcement to residents to report or AR. 

If someone is violating TOS then there is a recourse.  Otherwise, there is really little to do other than discontinue your participation, ban, mute, etc.

Many people are in sl to escape rl, create, RP, whatever. Not everyone enjoys such a free environment.  I run into people in sl everyday that what to tell you what you should & should not do, etc.  Human nature to want to control our environment & have everyone follow what they think is the correct path.  The one nice thing about sl is you can just tp away and enjoy your sl elsewhere. 

 

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Think of it this way, in RL you go to a club, you get to know the people you enjoy it there for a year.  The club changes, the new owner is a real jerk, they wont play the music you like or serve the drinks you like anymore.  They dont break any laws thought.  You complain and are tossed out.  What would you do?

The same answer lies in second life.  Leave, find a better club/sim.  Tell your friends what happened so they have a chance to avoid the difficulties you had.  Maybe put the word out on public forums so new people know to avoid it.

What you cant do, is try to usefully invoke a higher power.  It doesnt exist.  If they didnt break the few LL rules, you dont have a fight here to make.

Greylists are hard.  Someone needs to maintain them, and enough important sim-running people have to acknowledge the validity of that list.  If someone were to set it up, it would have to be someone with a lot of existing credibility in the RP community, but part of that problem is that there isnt really any unified RP community so much as a whole bunch of sub-communities.  This forum is as close as you get to unified RP area.

 

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To tag along with what Krystara's said, not only would that hypothetical list be hard to implement with a wide-spread enough accepted party behind it with regard to credibility, not  only would it be a pain to maintain, but there's the issue of subjectivity. Even if 6 people dislike the way things are vs. only 2 people who agree with it does that mean the two should be over ruled with regard to what they choose? Its private property. Do you propose that person x not be allowed to purchase sims from LL even though they violate no TOS because "a whole bunch of" people dislike their ways? Or just to dictate what they can do with the space after they pay for it?  And I ask it cuz someone would. A whole LOTTA sims in sl are "limping along".....doesn't mean LL comes along and revokes the sale. As long as the fees are paid up, and TOS are followed it can have 0 visitors every single day. It still gets to exist and 1 person every 8 weeks might satisfy the owner. As for the patrons....They exercised a private choice in being there. Even people with low self esteem get to decide what they're going to do.

I understand/get the feeling that you feel like some kind of cyber bullying went on or something but the question to that is "how" when it was the guy himself initiating that the two of you should not have any farther contact. Man asks you to do somethin you dont like , you say no, he says "fine then" and cuts you off. There's no  bullying there. Really its comes off as being mad you're NOT allowed to continue contact in the hands of a shrewd lawyer.Your feelings about your friends is "your responsibility"  from where I sit. Not his.

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.
 That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

This is breaking the SL/RL wall - a direct violation of the SL TOS. The person demanding it could be permanently banned for it.

-THAT- has happened. People have been banned for breaking that wall before.

Anyone fool enough to think it is not a TOS violation, does so at the risk of their account.

 

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Waif LittleBoots wrote:

then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.
 That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

This is breaking the SL/RL wall - a direct violation of the SL TOS. The person demanding it could be permanently banned for it.

-THAT- has happened. People have been banned for breaking that wall before.

Anyone fool enough to think it is not a TOS violation, does so at the risk of their account.

 

 

So if you come on my land and we both are OOC and I say "people who come to my house and wont call me "sir" I kick out you're telling me I can't kick you out cuz we're OOC? 

You could sell me sexual harassment with regard to the camming. -EVEN THOUGH I dunno under what "threat" he pursued her to do it. That he wouldn't play with her anymore?  That he would not continue to let her be in the internet sex fetish relationship they had been in  up until then because this internet sex activity was not one she wanted to perform? Tell me, what kinds of internet sex are strictly IC? Cuz if you're someone's "sex slave" I dunno how you're a non-sexual kind? Even if all you type to them about is your toenails the likelihood is that the other party is getting off on that toenail text,  otherwise there really is no reason to make you their "sex slave". So is the toenail IC or is it the orgasm that one of em may be having? As far as running away from someone telling you to be in insolation at your house through the computer??? if you need saving from words, you need a shrink not LL.

 As for being at my house, GO  HOME. Its that easy.

 

I initially didn't want to say all of this, but "really".

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Waif LittleBoots wrote:

then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.
 That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

This is breaking the SL/RL wall - a direct violation of the SL TOS. The person demanding it could be permanently banned for it.

-THAT- has happened. People have been banned for breaking that wall before.

Anyone fool enough to think it is not a TOS violation, does so at the risk of their account.

 

 

She said she brought the complaint to the Lindens and they said there was no TOS violation. So I guess they do not agree with you here.

Everything in sl is consensual. If someone tells me I cannot be on their sim and will be banned if I do not go on cam with them - I simply do not go to their sim. If they find people who are willing to do that - consenting adults of c ourse - because no one can be forced to do anything in sl - they can be my guest and cam away. I will be long gone - their playground, they decide who gets to play there.

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

Not investing money.. becoming "invested" in the emotional sense.. spending weeks or months on a certificatoin process and then being asked to put up with OOC abuse or to change their avatar completely to remain at the sim.  Maybe a hypothetical scenario (not what actually happened to me) will explain what I mean:  X spends three months at sim Y on a 12-level certification process, 2 or 3 hours a day.. all her friends are at sim Y, it is her SL home.. then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.  That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

Why don't you just state exactly what happend and what the grievance is you have. Then people can give you an opinion that is actually based on what happened and not some hypothetical stuff. It makes very little sense to ask for an opinion if you do not want to tell people what the issue is.

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Efurou wrote:


Waif LittleBoots wrote:

Not investing money.. becoming "invested" in the emotional sense.. spending weeks or months on a certificatoin process and then being asked to put up with OOC abuse or to change their avatar completely to remain at the sim.  Maybe a hypothetical scenario (not what actually happened to me) will explain what I mean:  X spends three months at sim Y on a 12-level certification process, 2 or 3 hours a day.. all her friends are at sim Y, it is her SL home.. then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.  That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

Why don't you just state exactly what happend and what the grievance is you have. Then people can give you an opinion that is actually based on what happened and not some hypothetical stuff. It makes very little sense to ask for an opinion if you do not want to tell people what the issue is.

^^^^^^   THIS   ^^^^^

 

 

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

Good advice, Avalon...and I agree  with what you are saying,  I had pretty much moved on until I saw them doing something similar to a close friend who didn't leave the sim.  I just want to figure out a way to stop these guys from hurting other people.  The sim is mostly dead (when the bad admin took over, most of the old players left), but it is limping along and I think they are actively recuiting low self esteem types, so this bad stuff will continue.  I guess everyone has to learn through there own bad expereinces, but it's a shame to see a pattern of abuse repeated.  Thanks for everyone's kind words.

this is what happens with bad actors

the sim dies. not just in this particular scene. but in all. SL is to big for any one bad actor to dominate everyone

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The specifics of my situation don't really matter.  The consensus on the more general point seems to be that SL is a lawless, unregulated community as long as there is no TOS violation, and people who get manipulated or abused are just too stupid or weak to protect themselves.  I can accept that -- and it's certainly the reality of SL -- though for those of us who want SL to be more than a shoot-'me up computer game, it's a pretty harsh reality.  People can spend hundreds of hours creating a community and then be thrown out.  The difference between an RP sim and a RL nightclub is that the RP sim can't exist without the contributions of the players (in the case I am talking about, many people were forced to leave, not just me).  I guess that becomes a political point about to what extent the established RPers in a sim should be regarded as stakeholders by an ethical sim owner.  Reasonable people can disagree on that, but I don't fully buy the "just go somewhere else" answer, because when 20 regular players build something special through years of play, they reach a point where there is nowhere else that come close to what they have built.

I had thought about the subjectivity and acceptance point for a Grey List and that's a valid issue.  I think the only answer here is to write this off as a moral wrong with no legal remedy short of starting a lawsuit against the RL operator of the abuser or starting a group to publicize the abuse.  One would need to be pretty careful with the publicity not to slander anyone.

Thanks for the input.

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

The specifics of my situation don't really matter.  The consensus on the more general point seems to be that SL is a lawless, unregulated community as long as there is no TOS violation, and people who get manipulated or abused are just too stupid or weak to protect themselves.

It actually matters a lot. You cannot expect people to give you an opinion - if you do not tell them what it is about.

The TOS are the laws of second life.....people might be assholes but as long as they do not break the TOS, they can be assholes and other people can react to it as they want.

Same is true for rl - as long as people follow the laws they are good. There might be consequences if they act like assholes - but there will be no legal consequences. If someone acts like an idiot then people can react to it as they want - they can tell the person he is an idot or stay awawy from the person or whatever - as long as they don't break the law - they are free to do as they want.

SL actually is far superior when it comes to protecting oneself from such assholes. Everything in sl consensual - no one can grab us and force us to do anything or inflice pain on us in this way.

As long as the person does not break the TOS - you can react to it in a way that works for you - you can stay away from the person, even mute the person. I don't know what else you would possibly want!

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SinfulPrince wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Waif LittleBoots wrote:

then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.
 That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

This is breaking the SL/RL wall - a direct violation of the SL TOS. The person demanding it could be permanently banned for it.

-THAT- has happened. People have been banned for breaking that wall before.

Anyone fool enough to think it is not a TOS violation, does so at the risk of their account.

So if you come on my land and we both are OOC and I say "people who come to my house and wont call me "sir" I kick out you're telling me I can't kick you out cuz we're OOC? 

You could sell me sexual harassment with regard to
the camming.

That part. Camming.

Breaks the wall between SL and RL.

If you demand I hand over RL info, you've violated the TOS in a bannable way.

 

 http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Teen_Safety_Guidelines#Stay_anonymous

Stay anonymous

Don’t ever tell anyone online your “real life” information, including your real full name or your parents’ names, home address, school name or location, phone/mobile numbers, social security & credit card numbers, or anything that shows what you look like such as a photo, video or webcam link. For your safety, we do not allow other users to search for you by age or any other personally identifiable information, and it is important to keep this information private. If someone asks you for this info, don’t give it to them! Report the incident inworld at Help > Report Abuse.

 

https://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

  1. Disclosure

    Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.

 

Consent is voided when something is made a condition. Such as will ban you if you don't do this. This is just how the real world works, and it made further clear by the bit below:

https://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php?lang=en-US#tos9

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:

(v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

 

There are many conditions you can put on a person being a part of your sim or your RP or your SL scene. Forcing them to give over real-life information is NOT one of these.

Oh, and on the "sir" part... You could probably be a jerk and require people call you sir - but that's not where this kind of thing comes up. "Sir" is a strawman distraction attempt. It comes up with harassment. There are rules about harassment in SL as well. Quite often I see not this "Sir" analogy you made, but the defense of "can ban anyone they want" made for racist groups.

The counter to that is:

(vi) Post, display or transmit Content that is obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

 

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Efurou wrote:

She said she brought the complaint to the Lindens and they said there was no TOS violation. So I guess they do not agree with you here.

Everything in sl is consensual. If someone tells me I cannot be on their sim and will be banned if I do not go on cam with them - I simply do not go to their sim.

I highly doubt that.

But if it happened, take it to another linden, file tickets and ARs, and get that first linden fired.

They are quite explicit about the policy whereby you cannot force RL info out of people.

That's been a rule since 2003 - and its gotten even tighter as a rule since the teen grid merger.

 

 

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She's a big girl, not a teen. And if anybody doesn't feel like wearing their big girl or boy pants when they get in a sexual relationship they are free to do it,  but expect sex to at least be put on the table in a sexual relationship.  

Doesn't mean you have to do it.

But it does mean he's not wrong to ask for it.           

And I would thinks that's  why the lindens did not respond.

If this was about a person that she was not having sex with already -and sex with inferred aspects of "force" in it from the jump, and agreed to (cuz thats the case when you say you are a sexual slave, not partner, slave) then maybe someone would have said "so and so is trying to force her RL and SL to cross". But she was crossing it already.  Willingly.  Sexually. With "force" added in. And happily apparently. Over a long enough period of time that she felt she had built up an investment.  Until there was one act she didn't like. And when that act came up she was NOT hacked, threatened in her rl, not even threatened in her sl. The individual said "well bye then".

He's not obligated to remain friends with her whatever his reasons for ending the friendship. He's not obligated to have her in a sim that it sounds like the main "theme" of is being his personal slave. (A good reason it's "relevant" to ask her to tell the specifics of the sim.)

Her friends are not even being "taken away from her". -Which is what she is trying to make it sound like. Her friends are grown people who decideall by themselves whether or not they will pursue/continue to be her friend outside this activity.

There's nothing wrong with starting out thinking that "x" is something you want to get into and can handle and finding out along the way that you can't.  No shame in it. But that's what it sounds like.

SL is not  "lawless". But the law is not that grown men and women must be penalized when person "x" bites off more than they can chew and feels that everybody else should play their game on somebody else's terrain because its better for just them.  Its that a TOS be followed.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


SinfulPrince wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Waif LittleBoots wrote:

then an admin says he will ban her unless she does something that she OOC doesn't want to do, like cam naked or spend 6 hours a day in isolation.
 That is the sort of thing I am talking about, and I don;t think that woudl violate the TOS.  You will probably say that anyone who gets that emotionally invested in one sim is an idiot.  perhaps you are right.

This is breaking the SL/RL wall - a direct violation of the SL TOS. The person demanding it could be permanently banned for it.

-THAT- has happened. People have been banned for breaking that wall before.

Anyone fool enough to think it is not a TOS violation, does so at the risk of their account.

So if you come on my land and we both are OOC and I say "people who come to my house and wont call me "sir" I kick out you're telling me I can't kick you out cuz we're OOC? 

You could sell me sexual harassment with regard to
the camming.

That part. Camming.

Breaks the wall between SL and RL.

If you demand I hand over RL info, you've violated the TOS in a bannable way.

 

 

Stay anonymous

Don’t ever tell anyone online your “real life” information
, including your real full name or your parents’ names, home address, school name or location, phone/mobile numbers, social security & credit card numbers, or
anything that shows what you look like such as a photo, video or webcam link
. For your safety, we do not allow other users to search for you by age or any other personally identifiable information, and it is important to keep this information private. If someone asks you for this info, don’t give it to them!
Report the incident inworld at
Help > Report Abuse
.

 

  1. Disclosure

    Residents are
    entitled to a reasonable level of privacy
    with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing
    personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent
    -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile --
    is not allowed
    . Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.

 

Consent is voided when something is made a condition. Such as will ban you if you don't do this. This is just how the real world works, and it made further clear by the bit below:

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:

(v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelousOn, false, inaccurate, misleading, or
invades another person's privacy;

 

There are many conditions you can put on a person being a part of your sim or your RP or your SL scene. Forcing them to give over real-life information is NOT one of these.

Oh, and on the "sir" part...
You could probably be a jerk and require people call you sir - but that's not where this kind of thing comes up. "Sir" is a strawman distraction attempt. It comes up with harassment.
There are rules about harassment in SL as well. Quite often I see not this "Sir" analogy you made, but the defense of "can ban anyone they want" made for racist groups.

The counter to that is:

(vi) Post, display or transmit Content that is obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

 

 

Teen safety guidelines? Really? And I thought we are all adults here.......I especially thought the person who wrote the OP is an adult. Teen safety guidelines are irrelevant in this case.

Of course it is true people should be careful with their rl info. But people exchange rl info in sl all the time - they get to know each other, become friends, start talking on voice, share things about their lives - some even get married rl at some point. Of course they will ask each other rl questions - there is nothing wrong with asking. If poeple do not want to share such info they can simply say  they don't share any rl info - problem solved.

Someone wants to find people to get on webcam with? Hey  not my thing, but if they find other consenting adults - I am not saying they are wrong. I would also not be upset if someone asked me to do it ...it would go something like this:

Hey, you want to get on webcam?

No!

But then you cannot play on my sim anymore.

Fine. Bye.

No one can be forced to give such information - no one can be forced to do anything in sl. What is wrong and against the TOS is to spread around rl information one has about others. If that happens - completely different story. But just asking for it? Pfft, that would mean 90% of the sl population would be in trouble with the Lindens most of the time. Even when I just ask someone how their day was - I am asking for rl information.

 

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

The specifics of my situation don't really matter.  The consensus on the more general point seems to be that SL is a lawless, unregulated community as long as there is no TOS violation, and people who get manipulated or abused are just too stupid or weak to protect themselves.  I can accept that -- and it's certainly the reality of SL -- though for those of us who want SL to be more than a shoot-'me up computer game, it's a pretty harsh reality.  People can spend hundreds of hours creating a community and then be thrown out.  The difference between an RP sim and a RL nightclub is that the RP sim can't exist without the contributions of the players (in the case I am talking about, many people were forced to leave, not just me).  I guess that becomes a political point about to what extent the established RPers in a sim should be regarded as stakeholders by an ethical sim owner.  Reasonable people can disagree on that, but I don't fully buy the "just go somewhere else" answer, because when 20 regular players build something special through years of play, they reach a point where there is nowhere else that come close to what they have built.

I had thought about the subjectivity and acceptance point for a Grey List and that's a valid issue.  I think the only answer here is to write this off as a moral wrong with no legal remedy short of starting a lawsuit against the RL operator of the abuser or starting a group to publicize the abuse.  One would need to be pretty careful with the publicity not to slander anyone.

Thanks for the input.

SL is not lawless or unregulated,  It may not have as many laws and regulations as you would like, but it suits most of us just fine. 

The fact is this.  You are not a stakeholder in any sim unless you pay for it.  The owner of this sim pays for it and has every right to set the rules.  RP is entertainment,  He is under no obligation to entertain you.  It was your choice to spend hours and hours there.  No matter how much time or emotional investment you make in a sim, you are in someone else's 'house' and they are king of their own home.  He can kick you out because he got up that morning and decided he hates green eyes and you have them. He can decide for absolutely no reason to close the whole sim down without notice and change it to something else or dump it.

You don't even have a leg to stand on if you decided to take this to court in RL.  You are in SL voluntarily, you agreed to the TOS and all it does and does not regulate.  You went to the sim voluntarily, you engaged in the RL voluntarily,  You were not tied up.  You could leave at any time.  You are not out anything by being banned.

If you want a grey list, get a web site and start one yourself.  But also be prepared to be sued for defamation of character or liable.

You seem to think you are entitled to something here.  You are only entitled to this:  If you want a more regulated world with more laws and police to enforce them, you can start your own grid or search for another one.  If you want a real stake in a RP sim, then buy a sim and establish your own.

 

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