Buttacwup Float Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Most regions, including the my current region, restrict access from child avatars. I understand that many people don't like the idea of child avatars in Second Life. What I am wondering is, have there been issues for estate owners/managers in the past that lead to child avatars being restricted? I have been looking at the terms of service for Second Life and thinking about the structure of covenants and I don't see any liability issue. I looked around a bit and I can't find anything other than a general dislike of child avatars that leads to so many covenants excluding them from residential properties.Anyone care to weigh in on the question? I am really more interested in thoughts on reasons why it might be bad to include them than opinions on child avatars themseleves. thanks.sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Sautereau Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Land owners can make up (most) of their own rules Every one has an opinion so most likely you will see sever different angles Personally i have no issue`s with child avi`s aslong they don`t behave like morons in public outside of their "role play" area, i have seen 4 year olds speak and write better then most of them while they claim they are 8-12 and talk like idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 The dislike of child avatars has many roots. One big reason is, that a lot people feel uncomfortable when they are around. For regions its mostly the theme of the region that leads to not allowing child avatars. Many have adult or at least mature content or want to create an image of a location which would be visited only by adults in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I think a lot of it goes back to an issue that was at the fore when I first began SL in 2007 - the issue of "age play." I can't recall the specifics but, iirc, a European country (I want to say Germany but not absolutely positive) filed a complaint with LL over the issue of what could be "perceived" as adult sexual activity with children. There is an established, thriving child av community within SL that has nothing to do with age play but the entire child av community was unfortunately painted with the same brush back then and some areas within SL decided to play it safe and just not permit child avs in...period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttacwup Float Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Czari thanks. That is exactly the historical perspective I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I wouldn't say that it is just that one case....form my perspective it was only a matter of time that people start to wonder why someone may chose to be a child AND hang out on adult places. But I guess that case in 2007 helped to developed a fear that age play will be contected with a certain place and or people who are around to participate in mature activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It pretty much is just a tiny handful of cases, if any, though. Age play, statistically speaking, has never happened in SL. Which is to say with the millions of accounts that have been created and used in SL, likely less than 10 have done this. A statistical non-existence. Its mostly an unfounded paranoia. WHAT IS REAL though is what Syo noted in her first post. - People feel uncomfortable doing many things when something that looks like a child is around. There is a -lot- of sensual, relationship, and sexual content in SL. I would argue that this is the primary use of SL. Especially the relationship part. Having your date while somebody around is pretending to be a 4-year old is kind of off-putting. But that said... in places not meant for sensual, sexual, or dating activity - there's no reason to ban them. The players of them are nearly universally adult the same age as the rest of SL (30s, 40s, 50s mostly). And among them are some of SLs greatest community and content contributors. - If you do't need to ban them, you do yourself a great disservice when you do. You miss a chance to have some of the best folks in SL around. Go hang out in Bay City sometime and start meeting some of its core people, and you'll see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 "Some media attention has been given to sexual activity involving avatars with a childlike appearance. The United Kingdom and Germany are among the countries investigating new laws to combat simulated child pornography. The USA has attempted to pass several laws forbidding simulated child pornography, however, each one has been struck down by the US Supreme Court as an infringement on the first amendment right to free speech. As of May 2007, two such countries, Germany and Belgium, have launched a police investigation into Age of Consent-related offenses in Second Life (including both trading of non-virtual photography and involuntary virtual sexual activity with childlike avatars by means of virtual identity theft). Linden Lab responded by issuing a statement that any "depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving minors" was a bannable offence. In France, a conservative family union, Familles de France, sued Linden Lab in June 2007, alleging that Second Life gave access to minors to sexual content, including bondage, zoophilia and scatophilia, as well as gambling and advertisements for alcohol, drugs or tobacco. Linden Lab pointed out that the virtual world is not meant for children." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Second_Life#Sex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttacwup Float Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 It is paces like Bay City in fact that made me think to post this. I am pretty much 100% in agreement with what you are saying here. Obviously there are places where its not appropriate, but in general banning make little sense and only serves to cut off a part of the population from your region needlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttacwup Float Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks to all the responses thus far. A new, follow up question though. If you were looking for a place to live in Second Life and saw that the estate did not ban child avatars, in fact stated specifically in the covenant that they (along with lots of other avatar types that do get banned) were welcome, would it make you less likely to buy/rent land in that region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 is a few island sims aimed direct at SL kids. not many live on them tho. they mostly shopping style sims, sometimes adventure style parks. mostly bc sl kids usual end up in sl families and live on family-themed sims or sometimes period style roleplay like in a gang of street urchins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinfulPrince Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I don't know.....I have seen some pretty extreme behaviours when people adopted kids (all of whom were portrayed by 20somethings). The "parents" basically felt they needed to never be intimate in the house that the kids had access to ever again and set up "away" skyboxes and such because they even feared having sex menued furniture in the same house with them least someone claim "ageplay". In the end the couples divorced. Who can live that way? It makes someone like me feel that having "alive" children then is more of a drag than its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Well, it depends. I would take a look at the neigbhourhood I would have there. Maybe even introduce myself to the people nearby. And I would make clear that I won't reduce my furniture just because some child avatars are on the sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Artis Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Its not avatar types, but personality types that I avoide. A kid, or any other type of avatar can behave in any way. I have few friends who rp child avis, they are really nice people and to be honest any of them could wear an ugly spider avi, I don't care. What I don't like are kids avatars who wander around the grid all alone and IM me asking do I want to be their mommy? In child language! And if I don't want to rp, could I be kind enough to buy that sweet gilr a new hair? I have problems with adult english language cause there are some words I don't undeerstand but child talk is huh.. just makes me run far! If I was offered free rent at a place with tons of kids avatars who behave like real kids and drop by my place all the time, no I wouldn't accept it. And if they want to rp, why they do it in a way that would make you call the police in RL? There are not many RL 5 year old kids who wander around all alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Thanks, Charlotte I followed the discussions re: this issue back in the day but didn't have the specifics on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 seanabrady wrote: It is paces like Bay City in fact that made me think to post this. I am pretty much 100% in agreement with what you are saying here. Obviously there are places where its not appropriate, but in general banning make little sense and only serves to cut off a part of the population from your region needlessly. A very well known child avatar and child avatar advocate owns a store in Bay City, so it would seem that certain land/business owners within Bay City bar child avatars, but it's certainly not the policy of the Bay City sims as a whole. As a sidenote, Bay City and Nautilus are Linden-built (at least the structure, roads, some buildings, etc.) sims similar to sims like Shermerville and other "old continent" sims. They were meant to evoke a particular theme (Bay City is circa 1950's and Nautilus is described as a "water archipelego") and have a consistent design theme, again hearkening back to the older Linden-designed neighborhoods. I haven't been in any of these areas lately but the last I looked prices for land in any of these areas were extremely high. Many of the parcels, however, are double prim, so that makes them more desireable, as well as living in a themed area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 seanabrady wrote: Thanks to all the responses thus far. A new, follow up question though. If you were looking for a place to live in Second Life and saw that the estate did not ban child avatars, in fact stated specifically in the covenant that they (along with lots of other avatar types that do get banned) were welcome, would it make you less likely to buy/rent land in that region? It would make no difference to me whatsoever. The child avatars with whom I have had contact (and I admit these are child avatars that are established SL residents dating back many, many years) are great fun. ETA: Marianne, where are you? Marianne McCann lends a unique perspective to any discussion of child avatars in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Czari Zenovka wrote: Thanks, Charlotte I followed the discussions re: this issue back in the day but didn't have the specifics on hand. No problem, it was before my time so I was educating myself as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 lol it gets worse sometimes with the parent there + was at a M infohub a while ago now and this SL Dad turn up with his SL child he then start to demand that people already there behave themselfs bc was his child present. when he get told to take his child home or at least a G infohub he start to argue. and his SL child start to make bawling gestures and go: daddy daddy make the bad ppl stop anyways after about 20 mins of this somebody get tired of them both and shot them both right off the sim (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Artis Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 16 wrote: lol it gets worse sometimes with the parent there + was at a M infohub a while ago now and this SL Dad turn up with his SL child he then start to demand that people already there behave themselfs bc was his child present. when he get told to take his child home or at least a G infohub he start to argue. and his SL child start to make bawling gestures and go: daddy daddy make the bad ppl stop anyways after about 20 mins of this somebody get tired of them both and shot them both right off the sim (: which is exactly why sims don't want child avatars... Another example (this one not even involving a child directly, but the threat of one): I was playing some greedy in a sim on Zindra (the adult continent), as usually I was naked. One of the other players was rather short (but fully developed and behaving like an adult, adult AO, expressions, etc. etc.). Someone barges in and threatens to AR us both for age play because a nude person in company of a short avatar was supposedly age play (even shoving the relevant pages of the TOS down the guy's throat didn't stop this, in the end the sim owner had to kick him out). Other sims, mostly adult ones, griefers sometimes come in with child(like) avatars, start engaging in sexual activity, then file ARs against the sim owners using alts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 16 wrote: lol it gets worse sometimes with the parent there + was at a M infohub a while ago now and this SL Dad turn up with his SL child he then start to demand that people already there behave themselfs bc was his child present. when he get told to take his child home or at least a G infohub he start to argue. and his SL child start to make bawling gestures and go: daddy daddy make the bad ppl stop anyways after about 20 mins of this somebody get tired of them both and shot them both right off the sim (: LOL. I wonder why they waited as long as 20 minutes lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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