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VenessaLondyn

The Problem with Mesh

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My issue is with mesh in general. Nobody seems to want to buy anything anymore unless it is made of mesh.. I have so much desire to create and be successful and fruitful in SL, but now that everyone is mesh-crazy, my disability (Cerebral Palsy) is becoming a real hindrance. I have contemplated just  retexturing mesh clothes in Kits sold on the marketplace but who wants to buy retextures of someone else's mesh? I really wish there were better and easier ways to create in SL. I was looking at LL's new creative iPad app today. It makes me wish I had an iPad this instant. You draw something on the screen and it comes to life. Why can't SL creation be that easy? People tell me to use Prim-to-Mesh solutions. Problem: I have not the dexterity to build with prims. I also tried to use CLO 3D to create mesh wearables,  That is also too difficult. So here I am, I've been in SL in various forms since 2009 and my only way to make money *still* in SL is dancing. I can't even DJ, no one likes my voice or has time slots available that I can work. I want to just quit SL and forget about it but the money is appealing because I live on a fixed income, and I also feel better about myself when I am being creative. Sorry for venting but I'm tired of looking at mesh creations knowing that I cannot make anything like that. I would fall over backwards in amazement if I could build four sides of a house out of prims, link them together and make it work.

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Hmm.

First of all, I'm not sure that you're correct that nobody wants to buy anything unless it's mesh.

Second, I think that "My Problem with Mesh" might have been a more accurate thread title.

Sure, I prefer mesh but I still buy things that are sculpts/prims, and I've seen the same from others.

I prefer mesh because it is the "correct" way to create and manage 3d objects. The way most other games and 3d programs have been doing it for many years now. I'm sorry that your disability is hindering your ability to create the things that you desire. Creating 3d objects has always been a technical and fairly challenging thing.

The iPad program you're talking about is a 2d program, which is why it can be simple in the way player's create objects. SL is a 3d and highly flexible environment. You can only simplify 3d creation so far without a considerable loss in the flexibility and power of the tools.

Perhaps you could try learning to code objects? You can accomplish a lot with simply typing this way, and people often want certain scripts made. I have had friends who commission scripts all the time for pay.

You could even make a self-building house with a script.

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Mora's right.  There's still plenty of demand for non-mesh clothing.  All of the clothing in my in-world shop and my store on Marketplace is non-mesh, and I do a fairly brisk business.  I do agree with your overall diagnosis, however. The handwriting is on the wall, and mesh will be increasingly popular as time goes on, especially once LL finally releases the Deformer that will allow residents to resize rigged mesh clothing.  As Mora says, this is the "correct" way to do 3D modeling.  Like you, I regret that this will mean a greater segregation of Creators from the general SL population, most of whom will not have the time, talent, or inclination to learn how to handle 3D modeling programs like Blender, 3DMax, or Maya. 

There are a couple of constructive ways to think about that trend, though.  First, it's the way RL works too, so at least it's familiar.  Most people in RL can't build a house or make their clothes from scratch.  If they're lucky, that can find "kits" for making simple things, but most people turn to professional creators.  Second, every SL resident does still have the basic building tools, which are actually quite powerful.  Even today, a high percentage of the things in world were made with basic prims by non-professionals.  I suspect that will always be so.  It means that the average SL resident can be much more creative than s/he can in RL. It also means that there will be an increasing role for those of us who can handle more than the basic toolkit.

So where does that leave people like you and me who want to be more than casual creators in SL?  It means we have no choice but to learn to handle the proper tools for 3D modeling.  That's what I have been doing, belatedly, and having a ball doing it.  Some people will find it difficult because we cannot all afford the modeling tools, and some people have physical constraints or find the learning curve too steep.  As Mora suggests, kindly, it might be a good idea to turn your creative talents in other directions like scripting or working with sound files.  It's either that or develop your own workflow methods, patiently adapting the tools to your own style.  I wish I could think of other alternatives, but that's the way I see reality.

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There are some modeling apps out there that are easier to learn than Blender, like Wings3D. I'd recommend giving it a try, not necessarily trying to make something for SL but just to see if you enjoy it. You might find it's less intimidating than you think which may give you the confidence to try something like Blender for making SL clothing. It's not necessarily more difficult than good texture painting. It's just a different set of skills and like anything else it takes a lot of practice. Start small. If you try and go from not knowing mesh modeling to trying to make a decent clothing item that's a sure recipe for frustration.

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I remember an old sculpty program that let you draw a 2d image and it would turn it into a sculpty that had some 3d shape.

Does anyone remember that? It made them look kind of like mylar balloons.

EDIT: Oh hey, found it. You could give this a try this Vennesa, it's pretty straight forward and gives decent results: http://www.secondplopp.com/

If you would like any help with things I'd be happy to help out. You can reach me in-world at Mora Eldritch. :)

Also, I apologize if I came off as slightly hostile in my original post, I hope you can find a creative outlet here that makes you happy.

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Thank you everyone for your kind encouragement. I appreciate everyone's answers and opinions. I will keep trying things. @Mora, It's ok about your first post as my original post sounded terribly whiny now that I have reread it, @Chip I am honored that you responded to my post. I've tried your templates many times to try and create things, I will try the things everyone has suggested.

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is that you need a good broadband  connection to see it . With LL emphasis on gimmicks before service altering viewer settings to see mesh ends up with everyone with slow connections lagging. So i would like to see mesh free zones, and designers telling you when their stuff is mesh, I had a big argument with one before they wolud give me my money back after selling me a mesh dress that they had described as one

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Hey Venessa, I saw this program. I think it's used to make sculpts, but it has a unique method of making them. You might want to give it a try. http://www.archipelis.com/index.php

@sylvie, Mesh is not a gimmick, in fact it can be much more efficient to render then sculpts by a large margin. I have been in mesh-heavy sims for a number of months with no discernible performance hit compared to just sculpts/prims. Also, you need a good connection for second life in general or you're going to see issues. This has nothing to do with mesh, it has to do with how SL fundamentally works. Please stop demonizing things you aren't willing to take the time to understand.

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One of my prefab brands does not contain any mesh content and sales have not faltered in any way since mesh went live on the main grid. People are still happy to buy content made from sculpts and prims. In my experience, if something looks good enough then people in SL will buy it regardless of the tools and components used to create it. I find people care about how things look, about functionality, about the LI, about the price and about the after-sales support. Tick all those boxes and the majority will not care if an item is mesh or not.

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sylvie Serenity wrote:

With LL emphasis on gimmicks before service altering viewer settings to see mesh ends up with everyone with slow connections lagging.

Are all these items gimmick?

 

• Mesh sunglasses

• Rigged mesh sweater

• Rigged mesh shorts

• Rigged mesh feet

• Rigged mesh slippers

Maybe I should trash these lagging mesh items? :smileytongue:

Snapshot_020.jpg

Nah, I will keep them.  Mesh is more efficient than sculpties.  Well made mesh is not lagging, sculpties are more so.

Besides, one can do with mesh what is impossible with prims and sculpties. :smileyhappy: :heart:

 

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Porky Gorky wrote:

In my experience, if something looks good enough then people in SL will buy it regardless of the tools and components used to create it. I find people care about how things look, about functionality, about the LI, about the price and about the after-sales support. Tick all those boxes and the majority will not care if an item is mesh or not.

That is also my impression, when it comes to the general shopping audience. My customers are builders and creators and they do care if a building component is a mesh or a sculpty.

I get a lot of request for custom work, and most of the time people ask me to make them a sculpty. When I ask if it can also be a mesh for about the half of my customers the answer is: No, it must be a sculpt. The most heard reason for this is: people with older computers cannot run mesh viewers, so I refuse to use mesh in my builds.

 

I also get requests from people who ask me to make a sculpty of one of my mesh objects. It is never the other way around, so far I have never been asked to make a mesh object from one of my sculpts (which would be wiser then the other way around, in my opinion).

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

[...[

I get a lot of request for custom work, and most of the time people ask me to make them a sculpty. When I ask if it can also be a mesh for about the half of my customers the answer is: No, it must be a sculpt. The most heard reason for this is: people with older computers cannot run mesh viewers, so I refuse to use mesh in my builds.

[...]

I have to wonder how much of this is based on what your customers hear from their customers, and how much is merely a soft impression without research to back it up.  My own impression -- not wholly uninformed, because I spend a lot of time fielding questions in the Answers forum -- is that the overwhelming majority of SL residents now have machines that can run a mesh-enabled viewer.  I can respect the fact that some established residents have decided not to switch to those viewers for personal reasons, but that's also a personal choice not to view mesh.  I wish I had numbers to work with instead of "overwhelming majority" and "some", but I don't.  That's why all I can do is wonder how valid your customers' concern is.  Your own decision about whether to market mesh or sculpties, of course, has to be based on what sells, regardless of what they believe.  Still, I do wonder........

It's fascinating to me to see how much life there is in various SL urban legends. People avoid mesh because they think is causes lag.  Landowners eject visitors because they think that their script load makes the sim lag.  People assume that the cure to almost any problem is to either clear cache or do a Character Test.  The lore persists, sometimes supported by a tiny germ of ancient wisdom, long after you'd think that everyday experience or a little digging in the wikis and forums would tell people that it's bad advice. 

 

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Rolig Loon wrote:

My own impression -- not wholly uninformed, because I spend a lot of time fielding questions in the Answers forum -- is that the overwhelming majority of SL residents now have machines that
can
run a mesh-enabled viewer.


I wonder if there even is a single resident with a computer that can't run a mesh compatible viewer.

If there are any, I wonder how old those things are, 15 years, 20 years? How could you run SL on a machine like that?

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

I wonder if there even is a single resident with a computer that can't run a mesh compatible viewer.

If there are any, I wonder how old those things are, 15 years, 20 years? How could you run SL on a machine like that?

Example: Hamlet Au, ex-Linden and self-acclaimed tech blogger, is unable to run mesh viewers on his Alienware laptop from 2010.

The reason? He's still using the original Nvidia driver that came preloaded with the machine. He's afraid to upgrade. In fact he keeps complaining about Linden Lab not bundling their viewer with the latest Nvidia driver.

This is the kind of technological illiteracy we're dealing with. But it's only half the problem. The other half is content creators uploading unoptimized, lag-inducing, framerate-killing high-poly meshes straight out of Zbrush or Marvelous Designer.

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:

The other half is content creators uploading unoptimized, lag-inducing, framerate-killing high-poly meshes straight out of Zbrush or Marvelous Designer.

True, that makes some mesh as bad as all sculpties, sometimes worse, if people upload 4 high LoDs of an already overbuilt piece of clothing. That's really an exception though and lowering the draw distance to normal settings should get rid of this "too much detail in the distance" issue.

It still has got nothing to do with people claiming their computer can't run a mesh enabled viewer, which is absolute nonsense. And a Linden? wow.

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Vanessa, let me throw this out there for you.  Those of us who wear prim breasts are ALWAYS looking for high quality clothing with appliers.  Since prim breasts are, well, prims, mesh won't work with them, even when the deformer is done. No mesh for us, at least on top.  So if you really want to make clothes, that might be your market. :)

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The problem that i find, is that you cannot be listed as the creator on mesh.  Sculpties, you get the map, and make the sculpt, and it shows you as the creator.  Mesh items, i like, but there is no way in world to show you as the creator, unless there is some off-SL way, like sending files via emails, which most don't want to do.

I have had a request of a couple of items, that i have asked to be made, and the creators don't want to send me the file.  Sadly, it's a problem that is frustrating, but i know tere's a way to get around it.

 

I saw something about making mesh from prims?  how do you do that?  I want a back to a chair made out of prims made into mesh! 

 

Thanks,

Kittyn

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