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Vegro Solari

The Men of SL- a Controversial Guide to Them.

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^5

But just incase you haven`t read my previous posts in some threads here:
<- rare male, according to Czari lol

You have to beat me with a stick in real life to talk, but when you put a text box (or filled calendar with pen on the toilet) infront of me... o.O

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


I don't know where you've been living, but I've found men to be nifty creatures that defy categorization. Most of them seem to feel the same way about women.



I do totally agree with you that this is how I feel about women. 

But speaking to the topic in general, maybe I could be accused also of pigeonholing people when I say this, but really I see people in three categories:

Those who care and those who don't.

Those who are kind, and those who aren't.

Those who are peace seekers and those who are not.

 

I try to treat all people with care and kindness and peace.

Do your friends fall neatly into any of those categories, Perrie? I've got friends who care, but not about everything or everyone, are very kind, but not when angry, and seek peace where they think they can obtain it and take the gloves off where they don't. Sometimes I make allowances for their behavior, sometimes I call them out. I expect they'll do the same for me.

This is the complexity I mentioned earlier. I do understand that we must make snap judgments on first meeting people and may look for certain clues that we hope reveal their character. But I suspect we often get that wrong, and end up investing in relationships that ultimately don't work, or make compromises for the unexpected complexity we find.

I also try to treat all people with care, kindness and peace, but I don't always succeed. And that means my friends will be faced with the same complexities they present to me, and may have to make the same compromises.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

I don't know where you've been living, but I've found men to be nifty creatures that defy categorization. Most of them seem to feel the same way about women.

******************************************************************************************************************************************

You women don't defy categorization...we just can't figure you out!!! :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

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How do you define  "classy" girls? Interesting you didn't say women. You know what...don't bother to answer, because I don't care. What you don't know about women...is a lot. And your list? That says more about you than it does other men, and I'm not alone in that opinion (read just about everyone's comments here).

Hey, at least this post has been great fodder for everyone to point and laugh.

 

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The level of unanimous man/woman hostility that people have developed towards simple truths is definitely amusing.

Being the only one willing to speak the categorical truth amidst an oppressive & self-congratulating thought regime (for example, politically correct forum) is a great position, you can claim not only the due fame but also a kind of martyrdom.

I especially liked the one jaded criticism, no doubt from a woman, that thanked the Guide for describing a third macho-needy-boring class of man, which was quite a clever epigram! 

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Are my panties supposed to get wet from so much semi intelligent yada yada? Oh no wait thats not very lady like of me ~grins and leans over the fence throwing pebbles into the water and giggles at her own wrinkly reflection in the water~

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Keep waxing poetic out of your arse, but all your saying is complete drivel.

Yes, the level of uninamous hostility is amusing, because you think everyone else here has issues...but not yourself. That's laugh out loud funny.

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What I find amusing is you refer to your opinions as simple truths.Opinion can only be established as truth when you have proof to back it up. 

 

Now you are also a martyr in the forum because you felt the need to push stereotypes onto the male gender based on that opinion and have a big enough ego to be the voice for them.

 

It really does seem you are in need of something, but I don't think it is a female stroking that ego of yours since you do it so well all on your own.

 

 

 

 

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Now you're talking! 

(take note, though, I don't actually say the things Tracea says I say.  I insinuate them insidiously.)

But now you are talking!  Let's welcome everything in this thread to which we can say "LET'S TRY IT". 

Because it's certain that in human relations truths are not determined by majority opinion, but by what works in practice.

 

Brave hearts and those who're insatiably curious,  what you need is just a good understanding of what I said and a good chance to apply it in practice to observe the results (even if you personally -totally- disagree with it all and are super emotional about it).

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


I don't know where you've been living, but I've found men to be nifty creatures that defy categorization. Most of them seem to feel the same way about women.



I do totally agree with you that this is how I feel about women. 

But speaking to the topic in general, maybe I could be accused also of pigeonholing people when I say this, but really I see people in three categories:

Those who care and those who don't.

Those who are kind, and those who aren't.

Those who are peace seekers and those who are not.

 

I try to treat all people with care and kindness and peace.

Do your friends fall neatly into any of those categories, Perrie?

I can't say that they all fall 'neatly' into the categories.  But shall we say that there can often be an overall tenor to the way people think.  I do think that over all people do want to "do good" and that it is the rare person who falls totally in the negative category.

On another Social Media site I have around 200 contacts or friends.  Of that number, I have only ever unfriended one. 

I know I quote it a lot but Torley said so much so well when he talked about Responsible Disclosure:

"It is a difficult thing that, while life in general appeals to a diversity of people, many people's interests are in conflict."

I accept that this is true.  How I deal with others when conflicts arise is a measure of the kind of person I am.

 

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Vegro Solari wrote:

The level of unanimous man/woman hostility that people have developed towards simple truths is definitely amusing.

Being the only one willing to speak the categorical truth amidst an oppressive & self-congratulating thought regime (for example, politically correct forum) is a great position, you can claim not only the due fame but also a kind of martyrdom.

I especially liked the one jaded criticism, no doubt from a woman, that thanked the Guide for describing a third macho-needy-boring class of man, which was quite a clever epigram! 

Your very first, and maybe even your only really since they all feed off of it, fault is believing that your opinion is somehow the truth. If you let go of that attitude for just a moment you might understand exactly where everyone else is coming from. I can understand where you're coming from, it's not the first time I've seen someone classify humans, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you. I most certainly do not. This forum is hardly politically correct. Just as many of the forumites are hardly politely correct. Politeness, fairness, kindness, these sorts of things should never be confused with being politically correct(I really hate that term actually and don't think it applies nearly anywhere it gets put).

If you're looking for arrogance one can always find it in the mirror. That statement goes two ways, too. We can all find it when we look in the mirror, even when we aren't trying to. We're all arrogant at some point. At some point we all believe our opinion to be the right one. Without so much as a thought towards whether or not someone else could actually be more right, at least for themselves.

But then, I'm just a woman and I am gathering from some of your responses, you're not actually fond of my gender whatsoever. I could be completely off on that one too, but your replies, to me, read as that. So you probably won't take diddly that I have to say, to heart. You might not take anything anyone says to heart, and no one here can make you. But that too, is a two way street. You're not going to convince the masses or even the few that you and you alone are correct with the kind of replies you're offering. Opinions are just that. They're as individual as you or I. Your macho guy might not be so macho in my eyes. Your needy woman might not be so needy in my eyes. Your geek might not be a geek to me. Your dumb as a box of rocks, might not be so dumb to me. Who are you to say I'm wrong? If you can't possibly be wrong, then in kind, neither should I-or anyone else. You're mistaking the sharing of opinions as hostility. Probably because in text form, all we have is context and it's very easy to misread. There is no tone, no body involvement at all. I could be sitting here smjile on my face calm as the night sky, or even giggling at the words on the screen and the thought of them actually being true, in my eyes of course,(and I am, lol). That doesn't make me hostile,just means I am in disagreement with your opinion.

 ETA: I fixed some typos, probably left even more, you can thank a curious cat for that. He apparently believes he has a better opinion than I do too. Go figure.

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Question, since I lack class, I have blonde roots irl an I am not a native speaker:

 

MEN and Them is plural right? Just checking if my sense of english grammar is letting me down here since your post appears to be merely a manual to you. So either I can't read english or you have multiple personalities. Or...maybe the arrogance to think what goes for you goes for the whole world.

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Dear Tari,  don't lose sight of the facts here - you do not have an opinion or guide of your own, you just have a disagreement.  Disagreeing with the brutal methods of my Guide is perfectly fine.


But they work brutally well. You would know this if you understood and tried it.

Overall, I feel it's not necessary to lecture me what a bad person I am to ignore your protests (you say I can't categorize people, can't call you out on politically correct posturing, can't have an opinion that overpowers yours, etc - that's a lot of things I can't do, according to you. You know, in the Guide I never restrictively said you can't do something. So maybe I am the more politically correct person, after all? If freedom of expression matters. )

Why don't you ladies check out the Guide more instead of making me into a clown celebrity in the spotlight? I posted it for you to try and enjoy the results!

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Vegro Solari wrote:

Dear Tari,  don't lose sight of the facts here - you do not have an opinion or guide of your own, you just have a disagreement.  Disagreeing with the brutal methods of my Guide is perfectly fine.

 

But they work brutally well. You would know this if you understood and tried it.

Overall, I feel it's not necessary to lecture me what a bad person I am to ignore your protests (you say I can't categorize people, can't call you out on politically correct posturing, can't have an opinion that overpowers yours, etc - that's a lot of things I can't do, according to you. You know, in the Guide I never restrictively said you can't do something. So maybe I am the more politically correct person, after all? If freedom of expression matters. )

Why don't you ladies check out the Guide more instead of making me into a clown celebrity in the spotlight? I posted it for you to try and enjoy the results!

I have no opinion?  Really? I beg to differ. Though I could say you too, do not have an actual opinion, merely a disagreement with everyone around you. I didn't, however. I'm of the thought that everyone has opinions, and regardless of what I think of them, they're entitled to having them, present company included. Thanks for offering your permission to disagree with you. However, sir, I am a big girl and don't need your permission to do so. No one does.

The guide you wrote, is not a guide in the sense you seem to think it is(made to educate ), it's your opinion on the types of men out there. You're simply informing us of your opinion.

 I happen to disagree with you. It's my opinion that there are many more types of men, even women, out there and without knowing each each of them, I can't possibly place them all in a class or category. So I'd rather not. I'm quite glad that you can, however. You seem to be proud of your ability, congratulations.

No one here has to make you out to be a clown, you're doing so all by your little lonesome. Maybe if your ego didn't shine through your posts, you'd be less hard pressed to find people in agreement. That seems to be what you're seeking-agreement, and only agreement.

 

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Also, you are correct, no one, in my personal opinion, can have an opinion that overshadows all others. As I said, I believe everyone is entitled to their own. Mine means more to me than yours does to me. Yours means more to you than mine does to you. I am perfectly fine with that. No one ever said we're all right, all of the time. If they did, they'd be lying, no one is right 100% of the time ;)

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See, now... In the Guide I give exact instructions how to easily and quickly classify all the men you meet. discard the bad apples fast (the boring egoists),  and focus on the third type, the man who is really Different and a lot of fun.  And how to make this third type of man happy once you do find him.

And if that's not educational, then education means something different to you than it does to most people.

I know how the things I say are not intuitive for  most women nowadays. They would've never thought of it this way by themselves. That's how brainwashed people have become. The Guide says nothing outrageous, yet provokes a violent and disagreeable reaction in the "modern woman", who is supposed to never categorize people, let all opinions have equal grounds, tolerate everyone equally, condescend to her man, pretend she is without weakness and doesn't need anyone, etc. etc.

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Vegro Solari wrote:

See, now... In the Guide I give exact instructions how to easily and quickly classify all the men you meet. discard the bad apples fast (the boring egoists),  and focus on the third type, the man who is really Different and a lot of fun.  And how to make this third type of man happy once you do find him.

And if that's not educational, then education means something different to you than it does to most people.

I know how the things I say are not intuitive for  most women nowadays. They would've never thought of it this way by themselves. That's how brainwashed people have become. The Guide says nothing outrageous, yet provokes a violent and disagreeable reaction in the "modern woman", who is supposed to never categorize people, let all opinions have equal grounds, tolerate everyone equally, condescend to her man, pretend she is without weakness and doesn't need anyone, etc. etc.

I don't categorize simply because I'm "not supposed to". I choose not to, because it's who I am, and how I wish to treat people. Just like I am not placing you in any particular category because I am pretty sure you probably fall into more than one. I think most people do, well all people really. I don't know what tolerance of others and their opinions has to do with gender though. I find the ability equally delightful amongst both male and females. I never ever condescend to my husband however, so you are right there. He also never condescends to me. We feel neither of us is superior to the other. I am also not without weakness, or imperfection. No human on this planet is infallible, or perfect. That includes both men and women. Again, present company included. I do very much need my hubby, and he very much needs me. All people need other people, that's human nature, imo. I don't think very many people on this planet could survive without any other human whatsoever. I could be wrong though, and there very well may be people who can. I am not one of them though.

I still fail to see what that has to do with not desiring to toss people into a few categories, ignoring the vast amount they could possibly be placed in if I really tried. I'm sure I could, if I wanted to. I just don't want to. It just seems unfair, for me, especially to limit them to just 3. That doesn't mean I believe I, or my opinions, are superior to yours. I don't believe anyone holds a superior opinion, including you. I don't hold that opinion because I am a woman. I hold that opinion because I am me, I know me, and I know my opinions. Much that you are you, you know you, and you know your opinions. I don't believe you have them simply because you're a male. That is something I do not understand, at all. Not because I am somehow inferior, but because your explanations are very vague, and it's simply something I do not understand. Nothing wrong with not understanding something, or someone.

I think I should give up on this conversation, lol. I clearly don't mesh well with your line of thinking, and you don't mesh well with mine. We'll never see eye to eye. I'm going to chalk that up to your ability to classify people, and my desire not to do so. Have a good day. :D

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I am not sure if this is an attempt at trolling or a serious thread, but in the hope that it is the latter, here goes.

Your summation has a valid point in as much that a few 'modern' women do seek something different from the too clingy or the overly macho. For myself I was extremely lucky to have found my man, he has mastered himself and I find myself the most happy making him happy and its the same for him.

Your attempt to explain this is flawed however and I encourage you to explore the world of D/s as perhaps a better understanding may be found there. The best masters don't need the title or the affirmation however, its something they know within them selves and there is no need to draw attention to it or explain it, it simply is.

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Leia36 wrote:

 

Your attempt to explain this is flawed however and
I encourage you to explore the world of D/s
as perhaps a better understanding may be found there.
The best masters don't need the title or the affirmation
however, its something they know within them selves and there is no need to draw attention to it or explain it, it simply is.

I don't encourage anyone to submit themself to the will of another... under any circumstance.  Masters, either the best or the worst, ONLY seek affirmation... and it is ususally based on values of absolute insecurity.  

 

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Storm Clarence wrote:


Leia36 wrote:

 

Your attempt to explain this is flawed however and
I encourage you to explore the world of D/s
as perhaps a better understanding may be found there.
The best masters don't need the title or the affirmation
however, its something they know within them selves and there is no need to draw attention to it or explain it, it simply is.

I don't encourage anyone to submit themselves to the will of another... under any circumstance.  Masters, either the best or the worst, ONLY seek affirmation... and it is ususally based on values of absolute insecurity.  

 

 

In the usual D/s coupling, the submissive is the one who really makes the rules, in the form of their limits, and the Dom is the one who has to comply with those limits. Ultimately, for some submissives, submitting to their chosen is a way of possession in itself.

Here's one of my favorite quotes about D/s

"It is a contract, a means of commitment between two people and unlike the public perception it is not a one way commitment. Its an equal partnership with one in control but it has limits like any other contract." - Ravena 'Fire' DeCuir

D/s is not for everyone, I acknowledge that. However it is as valid a means of commitment as any other and certain aspects of it such as the Dom/me's self control and self possession are in my opinion admirable and furthermore something I rather enjoy. Your experience is perhaps jaded by the plethora of dom/mes in SL however it is certainly not true of all Dom/mes here.

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Leia36 wrote:


Storm Clarence wrote:


Leia36 wrote:

 

Your attempt to explain this is flawed however and
I encourage you to explore the world of D/s
as perhaps a better understanding may be found there.
The best masters don't need the title or the affirmation
however, its something they know within them selves and there is no need to draw attention to it or explain it, it simply is.

I don't encourage anyone to submit themselves to the will of another... under any circumstance.  Masters, either the best or the worst, ONLY seek affirmation... and it is ususally based on values of absolute insecurity.  

 

 

In the usual D/s coupling, the submissive is the one who really makes the rules, in the form of their limits, and the Dom is the one who has to comply with those limits. Ultimately, for some submissives, submitting to their chosen is a way of possession in itself.

Here's one of my favorite quotes about D/s

 

Like I said, I don't encourage anyone to submit themselves to the will of another... under any circumstance (I don't care what end of the leash you are on.)

Here is one of my favorite quotes:  "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine"  Rand. 

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