Caught in the Middle

[Ry0ta Exonar]

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ImaTest wrote:

He also mentioned earlier on in the thread that if someone didn't do "real investigating" they were simply defending the thief. This. in a response, directly about Emuna, as that's who the poster was defending. So...calling her a thief, and insulting the person defending her in one blow. Not cool.

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If you are talking about his statement in http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Caught-in-the-Middle/m-p/1700449#M28528 "This system is rigged for the thieves.", I'm afraid you misread that.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Ry0ta Exonar wrote:

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ImaTest wrote:

He also mentioned earlier on in the thread that if someone didn't do "real investigating" they were simply defending the thief. This. in a response, directly about Emuna, as that's who the poster was defending. So...calling her a thief, and insulting the person defending her in one blow. Not cool.

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If you are talking about his statement in

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Caught-in-the-Middle/m-p/1700449#M28528

 "This system is rigged for the thieves.", I'm afraid you misread that.

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Nope, I wasn't.

 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I agree Nuria. The ppl in this thread who are willing to cut Xavier some slack as well as Emuma are all those who treat SL like a full time job and know that having your stuff copied is like being punched in the stomach. (I don't have a clue who Mr. Alt is.)  Is Emuma the only one qualified to get a break, and if so, why? I mean, her response has hardly been a model of cool calm thinking, either -- can you imagine calling LL support AND posting in the forum over something like this? 

 

Geez put away the rope.

 

 

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You clearly didn't read what I wrote earlier. Probably because it was far too wordy for most people's liking. I give way more slack than you think. I lived off sl income from 2005 until 20012, completely and utterly.  All rl expenses, and sl expenses were paid entirely by my income made here. I know what it's like to feel that punch in the stomach too. That doesn't mean you should automatically handle it poorly though, as I learned from experience. Doing so just puts you in a bad place too. Absolutely people ought to get a break from now and again. Had he not continued with that same manner, and said some of the things he said, I am pretty certain Xavier would have gotten the same break. Me, I think they're both victims, and both deserve a "break". But he, and you apparently, seem to expect Emuna to give him a break, yet he's not willing to offer the same. How is that fair?

Pointing out how to better handle something is hardly hanging a man, or woman. It's a great way to prevent it from happening again though. Can't learn from mistakes that don't get made.

 

[Darrius Gothly]

Pamela, I for one was quite ready to cut Xavier some slack. But given that leeway, he chose instead to continue his self-righteous tirade, refused to accept the possibility that he over-reacted .. and has continued to claim his right to smack down anyone just because he wants to..

He's had ample opportunity to post a "Mea Culpa", to apologize for his overzealous reaction and to adopt a more reasonable stance of "We should all work together to stop IP Theft". But he has refused all opportunities and has "doubled down" on claiming special authority to destroy the business of anyone he so chooses. He has no special authority, and he most definitely has no right to act like the only victim in this debacle. He needs to admit openly that he is only ONE of the victims, and work toward building a coalition, not setting himself up on a self-contructed pedestal as if he is someone special above all others.

I am sure that if you found yourself being repeatedly accused of wrongdoing, despite all evidence to the contrary, you would be just as upset as Emuna. I am sure that if you found your sales curtailed, your customers contacted with "warnings" about your products and ethics, and felt boxed in with no way to remedy or combat the assaults .. you would respond in a very defensive and energetic manner. And you would be absolutely right in doing so. This is exactly what Emuna has done.

As I said to Nuria, no one disputes Xavier's right to defend his Intellectual Property. But we do NOT support his attitude of "Extra Special Position" or his assertions that he can smack others around because he's been victimized. Someone with class, with dignity and maturity would work to build a coalition, draw others around and energize them to combat IP Theft. Instead Xavier has repeatedly insisted he has the right to do whatever he pleases just because he thinks someone stole from him.

None of us has the right to claim special circumstances or authority based on our own self-image. Yet Xavier insists on doing just that. I know for a fact that you strongly reject the opinions of those who think they're "All that and a six-pack" ... but that's exactly what Xavier has done. And that is precisely why I object to his approach, his actions and his attitude.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Oh you mean like calling for a boycott? 

You seem to be and advocate for grace for some, not for others.

 

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Nice point Pamela, and more direct than my version.

@Darius - Can you really expect some1 that feels like he is being attacked to not try to hold their position or counter back? It is usually only after some time that we can step back and see where we might have gone off the path, not while in the line of fire.

 

[Ry0ta Exonar]

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ImaTest wrote:

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Ry0ta Exonar wrote:

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ImaTest wrote:

He also mentioned earlier on in the thread that if someone didn't do "real investigating" they were simply defending the thief. This. in a response, directly about Emuna, as that's who the poster was defending. So...calling her a thief, and insulting the person defending her in one blow. Not cool.

---

If you are talking about his statement in

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Caught-in-the-Middle/m-p/1700449#M28528

 "This system is rigged for the thieves.", I'm afraid you misread that.

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Nope, I wasn't.

 

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Well, then it should be http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Caught-in-the-Middle/m-p/1700323#M28502 where he said " But, until you decide to do some REAL investigating regarding my claims you are doing nothing more than stirring the pot and defending the thief in the process". In this statement he was clearly talking about the avatar who allegedly stole some animators animations including Xavier's, not the OP.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Ry0ta Exonar wrote:

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ImaTest wrote:

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Ry0ta Exonar wrote:

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ImaTest wrote:

He also mentioned earlier on in the thread that if someone didn't do "real investigating" they were simply defending the thief. This. in a response, directly about Emuna, as that's who the poster was defending. So...calling her a thief, and insulting the person defending her in one blow. Not cool.

---

If you are talking about his statement in

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Caught-in-the-Middle/m-p/1700449#M28528

 "This system is rigged for the thieves.", I'm afraid you misread that.

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Nope, I wasn't.

 

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Well, then it should be

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Caught-in-the-Middle/m-p/1700323#M28502

 where he said " But, until you decide to do some

REAL investigating

regarding my claims you are doing nothing more than stirring the pot and defending the thief in the process". In this statement he was clearly talking about the avatar who allegedly stole some animators animations including Xavier's, not the OP.

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His reply there is to someone defending the OP. I came to the conclusion I did because of the entire conversation leading up to that point as well, not just the one reply. It's still an insulting comment, regardless of how one takes it though. We can disagree on what we each think he meant, since he didn't clarify, we're left to our own devices and opinions. I can agree to disagree. I happen to believe it's the sort of statement that lead to exactly what happened, though. It's the sort of thing one says when they're a little too emotional to be responding in the first place. It should have been an indicator(of many) that how you handle things can be construed all kinds of different ways if you're not careful. You being a general term of course. And yes I do realize he's not the only one who responded emotionally. I'm not trying to harp on just him. A lot of my replies are pretty general, I think.

I don't know about you, but when I've gone back to read things I've said, or even thought back on them, especially cases when I know I've stepped over the line, I learn from it. I don't continue to defend it, when I know I was out of line, or when someone tells me I have hurt them, regardless of WHY I was out of line. Which is almost always because I was emotional, upset, angry, etc.

Like I said, I learn from mistakes, mine, and others. When I know better, I do better. My ideal would be that everyone does, though that's probably not realistic on my part.

 

[Darrius Gothly]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

@Darius - Can you really expect some1 that feels like he is being attacked to not try to hold their position or counter back? It is usually only after some time that we can step back and see where we might have gone off the path, not while in the line of fire. 

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Well .. yes, I can. I do it all the time. I've seen many others do it too. But despite the "hold your ground" emotion that overwhelms us all from time to time, Xavier had a while after his initial conversation with Emuna and before he came here to reconsider things. His opening post would have been a good time to start off a bit contrite.

I also think it was rather magnanimous of Emuna to let him know about this thread and give him the chance to come and speak his side of things. She could have left him in the dark and just continued on with a single-sided story. Prior to his entrance, the general attitude toward her was concilliatory but not really that supportive. However after he came charging in with both guns blazing, I think a lot more suddenly took up her side .. if for no other reason because he really rubbed them the wrong way.

I agree, it's not always easy to admit you did a dumb. But anyone that's been in SL as long as he indicates he has surely has to have run into a lot more situations like this than just this once. If he hasn't learned yet how to temper his communications and his attitude .. well that's an albatross he'll have to continue wearing on his own.

[nuria Augapfel]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

Nuria, for just one brief moment try and put yourself in that tender start-up time when every little thing could totally destroy all your hard work. Try for just a little while to see how being tagged with a black mark on some secret list could cause you emotional turmoil. Try to understand how exasperating it can be to realize you cannot get your name OFF that list no matter what you try .. and try to comprehend how frightening it can be to realize that every sale you make .. if you make any at all .. can turn into a customer relations nightmare because someone found your name on "That List".

If you have any capacity for compassion, if you can even begin to comprehend that not everyone is as secure and successful as you, and if you can for one moment summon up a tiny shred of human decency, I am sure you will come to see how absolutely demoralizing this whole ordeal has been for Emuna.

And all because Xavier threw a temper tantrum and started swinging at everyone around him.

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Darrius, i'm not going to answer your whole post because this could take me 2 hours and i already stated my opinion about most of the points that you have raised. But regarding your personal allusions:

Forgive me if i'm wrong (my english isn't good)  but it seems to me as if after judging Xavier acts, now you are judging my capacity for compassion, human decency and even the objectivity of my opinion simply because i'm (according to you) a secure and successful merchant.  

You can be sure that since my "tender start-up time" here in SL  I have lived situations MUCH more complicated than finding my name on a list from few merchants trying to avoid content theft. I'm under the impression that some of you have some sort of trauma with the word "list" (maybe due Redzone drama etc...). While you are obfuscated thinking that Emuna has been tagged with a black mark, that she will lose sales or customers and that this issue could destroy her work you are doing nothing more than create drama. As you said, Xavier has been fuzzy on this point but he has clarified that knows very well that Emina and the other buyers are innocent and also victims in this issue (though seems that you avoid these words...). I'm pretty sure that Emuna herself spread more her name as a potential buyer of stolen stuff here at the forums than in any list that she may form part. Anyway I'm not going to keep arguing the "list" point.

You talk about Xavier's tantrum, but I really ask me why  has been so criticized the way to handle this issue by Xavier but no one care about how Emuna handled it. I'm pretty sure that if Emuna would answered to Xavier in a more cooperative way (even if he sounded harsh on the note) instead come to the forums to make a thread, the whole situation would not have reached this point. As i said previously, i think that when things like this happens if both persons are honest (and i think they are) just is needed a bit of communication. Emuna could have offered to Xavier to show him the animations and could have been interested in research on the issue, Xavier would have seen that Emuna had intended to cooperate which would have been a good beginning to try to put end to the problem from both side....that's all.

[Darrius Gothly]

I refer to Xavier's behavior as a "Temper Tantrum" because that is exactly how it appears. Upon learning that his animations may have been stolen, he filed the DMCA (according to him) and then waited. So far there has been no activity to his knowledge. Now comes a period of time in which he should have been able to calm down, reflect on what was happening .. and chosen a proper approach to stop any further damage. Instead, the result of that thinking was to go on the attack against other victims.

Yes, I consider it an "attack" to contact people in a VIP Group or on some sort of list, and inform them they were under suspicion. There is no other reason possible for telling Emuna or anyone else that they were on a list ... unless you are warning them and offering to help them get off the list .. which he clearly did not do. Instead he used that information to intimidate her. Intimidation is a form of threat, and threats are never well received.

Yes, Emuna could have responded in a much more helpful fashion, asking questions and trying to understand better what Xavier was trying to accomplish. But also remember that his message was received as a one-way communication. (She said "email" in her initial post, but I think it might have been a notecard instead.) In any event, Xavier did not provide a means to discuss anything. He simply stated she had purchased stolen stuff, threatened her with being on some list .. and closed the door to further conversation. It takes a VERY strong personality to respond to such an unwarranted and dead-end communication as she received with an even temper and a helpful tone.

I am definitely making judgments about your level of compassion. You have repeatedly acted as if Xavier was completely within his rights to threaten or attack anyone he chose .. and yet seem to have no interest in understanding Emuna's side of things at all. I fail to see how you've shown any compassion toward Emuna's predicament, yet are very willing to grant Xavier all the leeway possible.

Here is how I see it .. from an even-handed perspective:

Xavier was doing "nothing wrong". One day he learns that his hard work has possibly been stolen. He does some research, files a DMCA and waits. But while waiting, he takes that feeling of being wronged, and turns it against others that are also victims and sends them threatening messages. He didn't keep it focused on the real thief. He chose to spread it to others that had also been harmed. He allowed his anger to spill over and poison his communication with other victims.

Emuna was doing "nothing wrong". She bought some animations for a new build and was busily preparing it for sale. Suddenly she gets a message that informs her she has purchased stolen property, then goes on to accuse her of selling that stolen content .. or if not selling it now, preparing to sell it. The message indicates that if she tries to sell anything that might contain a stolen animation, some unspecified action will be taken against her. Furthermore she is told that she is now a suspect and is considered to be a thief too. She thinks about this for a day or so, then turns to the Forums for help to understand what she can do and what is going on.

Xavier took his trouble and turned it into a hammer to hit others with. Emuna took her trouble and sought help to get it resolved .. but without naming names, without saying anyone involved was wrong or bad. She simply sought help to get past this feeling of being threatened.

As I said earlier, I was fully prepared to hear Xavier's side of things and to give him some forgiveness. But instead of toning down his attitude, he made it worse.

And here's the real crux .. where you and I seem to have a big disconnection. The List.

What is the purpose of this List? Why was this List created? Who puts people on the List? Who takes people OFF the List?

This List has one purpose only .. no matter what Xavier or anyone else has said. The List was created to stop people from selling things. If your name is on that List, people will do their best to make sure you do not sell anything. It doesn't matter what you sell. It doesn't matter who put you on the list or why. All that matters is that you are on that list, and thus you are subject to having your customers chased off, your honesty questioned and your business disrupted.

It may have been originally meant simply to indicate people that might have purchased stolen property. But was it used that way? No. Xavier himself used it to threaten Emuna. He used it to accuse her of wrongdoing and to make her feel like a criminal. So is the List doing what it was meant to do? Not in the least. And THAT is why Lists like this are no good ever. People don't understand the nuance of the List. All they know is "Name on List .. BAD PERSON!" End of story.

I have a very personal experience from many years ago (almost 20 10 years now) that involved a List of this type. It was originally meant to help keep certain people safe from predators. But in a very short period of time, it became a List of those people that one specific person had a grudge against. Suddenly the list became a tool of Vendetta. Because it was MEANT to be a list of Predators, the one person's actions of putting names on it that they had a personal grudge against suddenly turned all of those people into Predators ... and NONE of them were.

We still have not seen this List. We still do not know who controls it, who updates it, who distributes it. It is a super secret list that has the power to ruin good people .. and ruin them without their knowledge of its existence. If Xavier hadn't told Emuna about it, she might very well have gone on unaware of it .. watching her sales decline and wondering what had happened. We just do not know.

Yes, Nuria. I question your level of compassion. You remain steadfast in your refusal to understand how painful and emotionally stressful this whole ordeal has been for Emuna. Yet you fully understand Xavier's distress. To me that is unbalanced and not at all fair. I understand Xavier's distress. I was willing to grant him a good deal of understanding because he felt wronged .. and perhaps acted out of anger in the wrong way. But he squandered that opportunity by refusing to accept any blame.

We will have to agree to disagree apparently. I will not change how I feel .. and how I feel is the result of Xavier's actions here, in the public eye. I'm afraid that nothing you say can change my opinion because it was not you that set my opinion. So further words will be useless both directions.

I can only hope that should you find yourself in an emotional turmoil similar to that encountered by Emuna, you stop to think about all that has transpired here .. and be ready to respond to your accuser in an even-handed, helpful and unemotional manner.

ETA: I totally blew my math. Teach me to calculate while suffering severe Pringles deprivation.

[Innula Zenovka]

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nuria Augapfel wrote:

 

Innula, you've reminded me the famous battle between 2 skin makers (one of them famous and the other almost unknown). I'm sure that you know about what i'm talking. If we all were guided by the evidences, as are the things now should we think that the famous and well established skin maker was the one who violated the other's work. But for those who are close to the situation and have knowledge about the facts we know very well that in this case the evidences and proofs are far away from the truth. Besides what seems an evidence, there is also a thing called common sense...i explained this because not always an evidence is needed to know the truth.                          

I'm going to leave, but i think that there are a very easy solution for this issue. I think that Emuna should meet with Xavier and the other animators affected to show them the animations that she bought. Then the animators would know for sure what are the animations that Emuna own and if they are stolen or not (and from who). If are stolen it's up to Emuna decide whether to delete them or not (trusting animators) and if not then they have a chance to file DMCA. 

With good communication everything is possible, just a little effort on both sides...

 

 

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I know the dispute between the skin makers, of course, from reading about it elsewhere.   The point I take from that, though, is that simply because somebody claims they made particular items, and even persuades LL to take them down, it doesn't necessarily follow that their assertions are correct.    In that particular case, you and I have seen some of the evidence that's been presented and I think we agree about it, but what matters is the view the court takes of the evidence when it finally comes to trial.

So yes, the point I take from that is that I don't necessarily believe the almost unknown skin maker when she says the famous skin maker has stolen her work,  and that it's going to have to be sorted out by a court on the basis of the evidence.

As to this particular instance, though, I'm maybe a bit sceptical is that, completely independently of all this, a few weeks ago someone asked me about a particular animation engine.   He'd bought a set of copy/transfer animations and an animation engine from a shop and had later been approached by another animator who'd told him that this animator and all his products, including the script engine, were ripped and he shouldn't be using them because they were subject to a DMCA take down request.  

The person who approached me told me he didn''t intend to use the animations until this was all sorted, but he did find the story about the animation engine a bit hard to believe, and what did I make of it?

I thought this sounded a bit fishy so, to cut a long story short, I went to the shop from which he'd bought the apparatus, and which I'm almost certain is the same place (I know the name from Xavier's having shown me a list of animations that have already been taken down), and inspected the animation engines in use.   They were all standard MLP and MLPV ones, which are free and freely available.

My point is that certainly at least one animator -- I have no idea who -- is, or has recently been, going round approaching the customers of another animator and, whatever the rights and wrongs of the his claims about the animations, has been making demonstrably absurd claims about the animation engines that have been supplied along with the animations are his.   So I do know that some allegations floating round, which I am almost certain concern this shop (if not, it's one with a very similar name), and assertions being made to customers, are unfounded.

[Flax Cuttita]

so  who  decides who  gets  added to these  pathetic  watch groups ? seems  very  open for abuse of innocent  ppl

and  obvously caused the op  a  lot of stress . wanna  be  sl police  are so funny they are pathetic to say the  least sl is  full of stolen ideas  . from  dance  balls to  defence huds  , beds ,  flowers  etc even tatoos  and  lot of stuff taken from rl content 

the  list  is  endless 

 

 

[Emuna Zamani]

Whoa!  Nuria . . . how do you know how I responded to Xavier?  I never posted my response here.  Interesting . . .

And for your information, an animator that I have done business with contacted me and this was part of her question to me . . . "What is your connection to <insert name of alleged thieft here>.  So if Xavier or someone else from the Scooby Doo Mystery Van did not share my name via a list or word of mouth, where did this animator get it this information from, along with the name of the man that I purchased from?

I pay my monthly fees like anyone else and I do NOT have to bow down to Xavier begging him to come over and check out the animations.  He provided nothing except threats.  Why would I think that I should show anyone like that anything?  What he is pissed about is that I stood up to him and his threats and I would do it again.

At any rate, for a LL representative to tell me to file against him, after they read his message to me, I think that speaks volumes.

[Flax Cuttita]

if it  was  me  you were accusing  id have you  in court  already  for deformation  of char and slander + loss  of  earninng

i could add a few  more  i think there should  be  a group  to warn  ppl  about merchants  like you, as for the pathetic  watch  list thats so  damn  funny

im surprised  every   griefer  copybotter  aint out there  copying your anims   just for the  lulZ

i bet  if i bothered to look at your anims  there would be  lot  like  other  ppls   ie  cuddles   kisses  etc  <if thats what you make>

after seeing this  post and your  replies any  anims  i buy  will not be from  you 

i woul,d also  encourage  other ppl to do the  same 

just too much  drama   for  pixels  and   a  GAME

 

 

 

 

[Rival Destiny]

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Emuna Zamani wrote:

Whoa!  Nuria . . . how do you know how I responded to Xavier?  I never posted my response here.  Interesting . . .

And for your information, an animator that I have done business with contacted me and this was part of her question to me . . . "What is your connection to <insert name of alleged thieft here>.  So if Xavier or someone else from the Scooby Doo Mystery Van did not share my name via a list or word of mouth, where did this animator get it this information from, along with the name of the man that I purchased from?

I pay my monthly fees like anyone else and I do NOT have to bow down to Xavier begging him to come over and check out the animations.  He provided nothing except threats.  Why would I think that I should show anyone like that anything?  What he is pissed about is that I stood up to him and his threats and I would do it again.

At any rate, for a LL representative to tell me to file against him, after they read his message to me, I think that speaks volumes.

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Yes, that most definitely speaks volumes for me and pretty much puts the whole situation into context.

Again, one of the drawbacks of having no checks or balances, very few rules/laws in place to protect merchants or customers, you are going to have people taking the law into their own hands & behaving badly.  The worst IMO are the groups that form around the notion of doing good but most always end up being shoddy self serving clique, etc etc. that in the end, are for the elite few in the group and not the genre as a whole.

 

[Rya Nitely]

Hi Emuna,

there are two camps here - those who can put themselves in your shoes.... and then there are those merchants who can only see themselves in Xavier's shoes. Thus the long debate.

I'm proud to be the type of person who naturally falls in your camp.

Darrius used the right word - compassion. Some folks just don't have it.

[Pamela Galli]

Compassion -- some of us have it for all the thief's victims.

[nuria Augapfel]

Yes...seems that compassion can work here to only one side...

[Darrius Gothly]

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nuria Augapfel wrote:

Yes...seems that compassion can work here to only one side...

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I'll say it again, in hopes you hear it this time. I HAD compassion for Xavier .. until he proved himself unworthy of it. I still feel bad for him that he is losing money. But that bad feeling is tempered by his self-absorbed attitude and self-proclaimed right to hurt others just because he got hurt.

Classy people never pass pain along, they keep it for themselves. Xavier did nothing of the sort.

[Deja Letov]

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Emuna Zamani wrote:

Thank you for all the good feedback.

The animator was able to find me because he saw my name in the group of the man that supposedly stole animations from various creators.  He had no proof that I had purchased any (I had) so his messaging me with finger point was based on assumption and I find that unprofessional.  I have no respect for this man at all.  There was a much better way to handle that.

I did as the LL representative told me although I now know that I can do nothing against the one that may have stolen the animations being that they were not my content.  I also file one against the animator for adding me to some list.

At this point, I am in limbo because I have these items that I created using the animations but I can't sell them because I have no idea if they were stolen or not.  So my opening for the new location has been put on hold.  As for getting my lindens back, I doubt that I will but this sure has me not wanting to buy anything from anyone to use in my creations.  I have nothing to protect me, the merchant.

The animations were very nice.  There was a group for beds, showers and hotubs.

I did block the one that contacted me but I am going to send him a link here so he can defend himself and the store he works for, if he choses.

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I am soooo uber late to this conversation. LOL  But I did read through it. I know we've all got differences of opinion on how things should have happened. I do totally agree he was a bit rude, but honestly...my personality type...I probably would have glanced right over it and replied back to him to let him know I received his message, but didn't appreciate the rude response as I had done nothing wrong myself. I guess that's just the business person in me and I really could give a hooey how someone feels about me personally...even if they are rude to me. It most definitely wouldn't have escelated to this level...not even sure why it did to be honest. But...as to issue of this post of being stuck with products with no animations, the very next thing I would have done, was to find out how I could go about obtaining the animations legally so that I could keep selling the products. Now, I don't know what the list was intended to be used for but if it was indeed put in place to put a checks and balances in place for those who may have fallen victim to the theif's action, I would think all of the animators in question would welcome a merchant to inquire on how to obtain the animations legally by paying for them. ya it sucks to have to pay for them again, but at least you are back to selling the item and will probably make the cost up...and it's not like it's the animators fault for the theivery. Not that it would be yours either, but you ultimately would be responsible for the mistake to either take down the items or buy them legally and sell as usual.

And before someone says well why should she pay when she has no proof they were stolen...I think we're all smart enough to be able to do a little research (as in go to their shop and see) if they really do belong to that creator. I think saying you can't tell is just not believable if you've compared them. I think it would be easy to play them side by side and be able to tell. I just don't think that has been done by the OP perhaps? I dont know.

If I were the animator in question...I would have never have contacted the OP. I would have just filed the DMCA and left it at that. Especially with no proof in hand, since as you can see all it does is create drama, accusations and hate mobs ready to form up and lynch your booty. Contacting people you "think" might have your stolen goods will get you nowhere, especially on a forum like this were we have formed a community and tend to stick up for eachother.

 

[Pamela Galli]

I actually did go to that shop (or one that exactly fits the description) to look at the MLP engine.  I looked at the animations, which were good -- I did not think to look at creator tho -- but noticed that the positioning was not very good. Like sometimes the couple was floating above the bed, sometimes part buried. It seemed strange to me to spend all that time making all these great animations, then not bother to position them correctly. I contacted the seller about it, and his response was "I give great customer service."  I said, um good, but I was asking about the positioning problem. He said I could fix it myself. Then he in effect hung up on me.  So, no, I did not buy. Something fishy there, certainly someone who is not very professional.

 

[Emuna Zamani]

Deja - Come on.  You were in the meeting where another person who purchased them along with myself stated how much research we did before purchasing so for you to even go there leaves me baffled.  The other individual even contacted other animators about the person in question's product.  We found nothing so please do not say we did not try to make sure we were buying from an honest person and you did not know. The other person and I said that we did in that meeting, where you were as well.

This issue is not about the person that stole them.  There is nothing that I can do about that.  The person who had items stolen from them has to start the ball rolling.  MY ISSUE is that there was no reason to threaten me and add me to a list.  I DELETED the animations as soon as I got the message from Xavier, not because of his threats . . . I don't give a damn about his rude ass to be blunt.  I did it because of other animators who would lose revenue and also for anyone that would have purchased my items and then have nothing, if and when they were removed.  It could come out that what Xavier stated was not true and I STILL deleted them, just in case.  So does that sound like someone that deserved to be put on a watch list?  I do not think so.  I could have kept them until an end result and made some money in the process but I didn't.

When individuals start adding others to "lists" just to watch what they MAY Do and they have no authority over anything, that leads to problems.

 

[Deja Letov]

"You were in the meeting where another person who purchased them along with myself stated how much research we did before purchasing so for you to even go there leaves me baffled."

HUH? When did I say you didn't do research before your purchase? Hold up girlfriend...and re-read what I wrote.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't mean before the purchase. I TOTALLY agree with you. I'm talking about after everyone here on this forum is now pretty much awarethat they were stolen...I keep seeing a few people still state they aren't quite sure if in fact they were stolen...that was my only arguement and really wasn't directed at you but more or less saying, we know they are stolen, let's figure out what to do from there. I didn't say you didn't know you weren't buying from an honest person...re-read what I wrote...my comment was specifically directed at people on here saying they still didn't have proof that they were stolen. Notice I was referring to AFTER you made your purchase. I did agree with you in that meeting we were all in, in fact, and said there was no way to do that sort of research. Sorry if there was confusion on that, I am in totally agreement with you on that. And no I don't believe you deserve to be on a watch list...I find that to be a moronic idea to be honest and completely uncontrollable...sounds like a bunch of older kids on a playground bulling people. Pretty much none of what I said, was directly related to what happened to you exactly but more or less how people here are responding to it.

I wish tone came across better in messages because I really am more on your side with this. Maybe my comments just aren't expressing it clearly. Basically in a nutshell...I'm just saying...now that we know it's stolen, what can we do to get your products selling again....regardless of what a rude ass hat he was. Does that sound better?

Honestly, you're a better person than I for deleting. If someone were to contact with me, I would tell them to bite my ass until i received a take down notice. And then I would have a few days to find other animations or get with that person to buy his legally. To many people throw around those accusations, which is why i say I wouldn't even bother contacting someone to let them know they were using stolen animations, i would have just let the DMCA play out and see what happens.

[Medhue Simoni]

I see the 2 camps a bit differently.

Camp 1 - Sees Emuna's side, and not Xavier's.

Camp 2 - Sees Emuna's side and Xavier's side, but think Xavier could have handled it better.

 

[Deja Letov]

I call camp 2!  Maybe we should offer up a free customer service class