Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Hyeena

What is Gorean?

Recommended Posts


Nephtides wrote:

The gorean novels by Norman are among the more interesting reads within science fantasy, and at least their descriptive force is great. That women like the background more might be a first hint that most blabberers here who call it misogynistic are simply clueless. It´s generally about a society where SLAVERY is a fact of life but embedded and openly, like ancient societies were, and not slavery by women alone either, and hell, not slavery of ALL women either. Part of Gor is the Free woman, and she is honoured and valued. Part of Gor is the male slave, and slavery is harder for him too. The whole modern earth dispute over women´s rights doesn´t even exist within Gor.. it has seen a millennia long and alternative approach there, and one obviously not easy or simplistic either. Most of all, Gor is a science fantasy setting.. while i don´t hear people wail over Tolkiens mass murder battles and racial conflict plots, or over Star Wars`exterminatory themes, or over the utterly braindead role of women in most of all heroic fantasy of old, or today´s "vampire" bat**bleep** stories et al., or even worse, the not-even-a-dead-brain-inside woman in 50 shades, i hear Gor is really bad. I play Gor, and its not. Grab a bucket of tolerance all, and in case you find yours empty, just wear it over yer head to improve things.

^^ This especially the last sentence :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Efurou wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

And, I could string someone along until they were deeply emotionally invested in me, then begin to make demands. This is certainly not the level of threat one could experience in RL, but it is coercive behavior. I could also insinuate myself into your circle of friends, invite you into mine and allow you to invest in friendships with people over whom I have some influence. I could entice you to invest time, energy and money building on my land. Once I'm in that position, it's not hard to imagine I could start then start applying pressure.

While its easier to grow a skin thick enough to resist these threats than those of fists, knives and bullets, they are still threats. The courts are moving in this direction with cyber-bullying laws. Those are a long way from (I think and I hope) from being applicable in the situations I've described, but the Second Life TOS would not ban threatening behavior if it weren't possible.

 

Yes, but those things apply  to all of sl - to every role play genre. It is not something that is specific to gorean role play.

I am a big - no a huge proponent of given people who step into any  kind of role play very good information and education. Part of that information has to be that we are all responsible for our selves, for our own safety - and that we can say NO! at any time we want. I am also a big fan of people who are new to any genre and to rp in general to have experienced people to guide them along a bit in the beginning. But the reality is often that new people just want to jump in and they do not want to listen to anything - most do not even want to read sim rules. And a few days  later they **bleep** and moan because they stepped on toes or things did not go their way. When that happens I usually just shrug my shoulders - in the end - we are all adults.

Yep, it does apply to all of SL, I wanted to point out that SL does not free one from the potential for coercion. If Gorean roleplay makes players more likely to accept the sort of misogyny depicted in the book I read (I've seen little evidence of that) I've also seen experienced players guide new ones to a more considered approach to the backstory. I've lingered in a few RP sims long enough to find myself drawn into the play and discovered that there are residents operating at much deeper levels than the noobs who are running amok, punctuating the dialog with grotesque baby talk gestures and wild misconceptions.

I hope that, while it is a playground for asshats, SL can also be a learning tool for the timid. As for us all being adults, the psych community pegs the age of maturity at around 25. That gives a 16 year old SL resident nine years to cut his/her teeth on the experience before we might expect them to get it.

Ouch ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading the last few posts here, I think John Norman has possibly done us all a favor, writing these action-adventure novels which make us discuss these issues.


For instance -


I have a problem with "submissive female" personality types being reinforced in this behaviorby SL. But frankly, I have to just check myself and remember that we're talking nominally 'consenting adults'. I have a dear friend who can barely speak to me because she's decided to take all this "mistress" blarg into her reality and "Mistress" is jealous of me. Nothing I can do about that.

Gor is just going to have a bad effect on some subset of people, but we can't gear the world so that all the rough edges are rounded off, or else it will be a pretty miserable world for all and not just a minority. Gor is full of simpering, submissive women. But I've noticed the SL counterpart seems to have for the most part got a big injection of fem-dom themes as well as a magnification of the "Panther" type far beyond what Norman evisaged. SL has room for all types. It's what keeps it vital when we all have many other more lushly realized virtual environments, most of which are just combat simulations of one sort or another.

Which brings me to the part about war re-enactment...If it's done with mindfulness of the consequences and the contemporaneous issues involved, all these things can be a learning experience that encourage participants to work out their thoughts about the subject matter. Civil War reenactments probably tend to be more a celebration of Victoriana as opposed to the savage brutality of that war that the most cursory skim of any history book will impart. Similarly for slavery. Most of the SL treatment of slavery has more to do with salacious fantasy than the reality of the institution in settings as far apart as the American south, ancient Rome, the Mayan Empire or wage slavery in some crappy Walmart someplace. Which is a shame. More discussions like this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Nephtides wrote:

The gorean novels by Norman are among the more interesting reads within science fantasy, and at least their descriptive force is great. That women like the background more might be a first hint that most blabberers here who call it misogynistic are simply clueless. It´s generally about a society where SLAVERY is a fact of life but embedded and openly, like ancient societies were, and not slavery by women alone either, and hell, not slavery of ALL women either. Part of Gor is the Free woman, and she is honoured and valued. Part of Gor is the male slave, and slavery is harder for him too. The whole modern earth dispute over women´s rights doesn´t even exist within Gor.. it has seen a millennia long and alternative approach there, and one obviously not easy or simplistic either. Most of all, Gor is a science fantasy setting.. while i don´t hear people wail over Tolkiens mass murder battles and racial conflict plots, or over Star Wars`exterminatory themes, or over the utterly braindead role of women in most of all heroic fantasy of old, or today´s "vampire" bat**bleep** stories et al., or even worse, the not-even-a-dead-brain-inside woman in 50 shades, i hear Gor is really bad. I play Gor, and its not. Grab a bucket of tolerance all, and in case you find yours empty, just wear it over yer head to improve things.

I have no clue why this was  directed at me. If you read my posts - you will realize that I have said over and over again - Gor is only a fantasy played out by consenting adults.

What you  do here is mix things up again - you try to defend things in that sci fi novels that is not defensible. Gorean players like you are often the reason why people are so prejudiced against gorean role play. What you said comes across as defending what is described in the books as "not so bad" in a real life way. That is a complete no go! As a fantasy gor is not different then any other role play world - just look at all the urban rp where all kinds of really bad stuff is played out. But I never hear any urban role players defending rape or murder as not so bad in real life - they KNOW it is only a fantasy. It seems much harder for gorean role players at times to  make that distiction - and that gives others a weird impression of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will not reply to obvious nonsense such as that i support RL slavery, or am against equal rights on earth... just show me where i said that. To slavery & war, death & torture, hardheartedness and evil:  If you don´t like the darker sides of history, you can of course edit them out of your mind, doesn´t change a thing though and will not necessarily make others censor their minds. If you are not capable to accept a story´s setting without getting all confused that it may threaten your real life society´s values, fine, enough people about who cannot, nothing special, even politics live of that reservoir of pseudodispute. what that has to do with what i said, solely about Gor, remains a mystery until you educate Us all :D.

My post was not directed at anyone in special, but to this here i will answer: "I agree with you. What Nephtides did was to take things out of fantasy and bring them into reality. That is an absolute no go. Some gorean role players do that - and that is one reason why  gor has such a bad reputation." - Explain how I bring things into reality from fantasy, please.. I will immediately bring a few billion Dollars into the reality of my bank account.You just misunderstand what i write, probably on a bit of purpose, but i don´t even care. here is what i said, maybe try again:

"It´s generally about a society where SLAVERY is a fact of life but embedded and openly, like ancient societies were, and not slavery by women alone either, and hell, not slavery of ALL women either. Part of Gor is the Free woman, and she is honoured and valued. Part of Gor is the male slave, and slavery is harder for him too. The whole modern earth dispute over women´s rights doesn´t even exist within Gor.. it has seen a millennia long and alternative approach there, and one obviously not easy or simplistic either."

A no go, and an absolute one even, should be defined a bit clearer.. so that misbegots like me find their righteous confinement, innit?


So, the answer might be: SL Gor is badtalked a lot by people who take a fictional, non-coercive setting for ROLEPLAY for a coercive real world sociopolitical opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Words fail me.....

 

I tried to speak up for gorean role players and make the point that - in the end - it is only role play and the players know that very well.

 

But the gorean role players who  spoke up here proved me wrong - very wrong. They are not doing their fellow gorean role players any favors! 

The reactions gorean role players get in sl surprise me less and less. It is their own doing.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Efurou wrote:

Words fail me.....

 

I tried to speak up for gorean role players and make the point that - in the end - it is only role play and the players know that very well.

Oh Please, how many slaves have you consoled for hours because their "OOC Love of their lives" abandoned them or worse killed them OOC? Certainly most of the slaves I know, on some level, get upset when things get extreme. Any slave that can calmly separate their character getting her ovaries hacked out of her during RP is either emotionally impaired or belongs in Hollywood, even then, you don't think that any form of RP requires the player to "connect" with their characters and what happens to them? Or do we find a bunch of wooden faced bots meekly saying "yes Master" at the drop of a hat?.  "Its only RP" is the biggest crock, its a convenient excuse to godmod at best, at worst it shows a complete lack of understanding what RP is all about.

But the gorean role players who  spoke up here proved me wrong - very wrong. They are not doing their fellow gorean role players any favors! 

By completely separating OOC from IC and making the interface entirely artificial and sterile, you lose the thing that makes RPing fun, emotion. The emotion of winning a battle, of delivering a child, of healing the sick, of helping the cause, love,  death, laughter, companionship. Take away the human feelings from SL Gor and what are you left with? Its that emotion that takes the RP in unusual directions, that makes the story human and therefore more real

The reactions gorean role players get in sl surprise me less and less. It is their own doing.

No its the kind that stands on their soapboxes shouting "Its only RP" that have given Gor a bad name, It excuses any behavior and leads to new people having bad experiences.

Here is an example, A friend of mine, in getting to know the slaver that had bought her, told him that she disliked rodents. Guess what she found in her kennel the next day? And when she complained she was told "Its only RP, get over yourself" and was told to cool it by the Mod.. Its only roleplay?  Oh yes if its only RP, sell all the free women in your sim to the next passing slaver you meet and post the log here, I guarantee you they will NOT like it and will NOT consider it "only RP" 

 

After looking at your profile a lot is explained, arguing with you further is senseless. Enjoy your SL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Leia36 wrote:

Oh Please, how many slaves have you consoled for hours because their "OOC Love of their lives" abandoned them or worse killed them OOC? Certainly most of the slaves I know, on some level, get upset when things get extreme. Any slave that can calmly separate their character getting her ovaries hacked out of her during RP is either emotionally impaired or belongs in Hollywood, even then, you don't think that any form of RP requires the player to "connect" with their characters and what happens to them? Or do we find a bunch of wooden faced bots meekly saying "yes Master" at the drop of a hat?.  "Its only RP" is the biggest crock, its a convenient excuse to godmod at best, at worst it shows a complete lack of understanding what RP is all about.


Responding to this as it was still posted. It seems there is a confusion over what roleplaying is.

It's playing a role, with the objective of creating a narrative story. The point of this kind of roleplay is to 'live a story'. The players - as Efurou stated earlier - will almost always be friends, regardless of how 'rated R' the roleplay gets. The objective of this is to imagine, to story-tell, and to immerse.

I've quoted the section above because it typifies something completely different from this. Using a sentance like "how many slaves have you consoled because the OOC love of their lives has <done bad stuff>" is dangerous. If their OOC partner is abusing/exploiting them, that's not roleplay. If their OOC partner deserts them, that's not roleplay. In both situations the 'slave' does not exist; they are a person suffering at the hands of another. A real life person is not suffering because of the roleplay, they are suffering because of other real life people. A real life person does not continue to be a slave anywhere except within roleplay; when the scene is over, they are free, because the 'slave' element is entirely fictional. NOT allowing it to be completely fictional is the beginning of very murky waters; holding people to their roles within roleplay inside an emotional relationship is absolutely wrong, and fosters peoples' poorly-understoof belief that the roleplay/reality line is easily-blurred.

There is a fundamental difference between 'kinky relationships' and 'kinky roleplay' - relationships are something that invokes reality, performed for the betterment of those involved. So that people can be happy with each other, and form close bonds. Roleplaying is an activity undertaken by friends, defined by the fact that it is entirely fictional. The purpose of roleplay is to create a narrative and a story, and not - absolutely not - to define how real people interact with one-another.

This means, if a real person playing a slave gets upset (OOC) that the story requires <bad stuff> to happen to them, and views this as a personal issue, they aren't roleplaying any longer. It would be ridiculously dangerous for anyone to confuse a fictional character with who they are in reality. There are several high profile cases of people going 'too far' after roleplaying was accidentally mistaken for reality. Several murders have been attempted and committed over 'pretend' issues; from an MMO player who was so devastated by the loss of his fictional sword that he killed another real life person, all the way to a 'real life Gorean slave' who was exploited and abused in a case that ended in attempted murder. All of these are real issues, not roleplay ones, and these can be the costs of confusing roleplay and reality.

It is frankly scary that some of the SL Gor community cannot see this fundamentally dangerous oversight.

This confusion cuts both ways. Those who are concerned for the real life issue of human trafficking, slavery, and similar are wasting their time in threads such as these. They may as well be demonstrating for the release of the Mudokens, decrying the poor working conditions in the Moria Mines, or fighting for an Ewok sanctuary (depending mostly on your background knowledge of fiction). The real life issues are serious, and affect real people every day, whereas their Gorean equivilents are fictional. Is there a place for awareness? Sure. Is there a place for charitable causes to help the victims of real life crime? Absolutely. I applaud and support all of that, as well as promoting education of all of these issues and why the real issues are bad, and should be wiped from the plane of reality forever. The difference is that I would rather spend my time supporting real victims, in funding real causes that prevent this exploitative behaviour where people have no way of hitting alt+f4 at any time.

TL;DR, The focus of a roleplay is its storyline, the focus of a relationship is the happiness of the people within it.

Be good to each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Freya Mokusei wrote:


Leia36 wrote:

Oh Please, how many slaves have you consoled for hours because their "OOC Love of their lives" abandoned them or worse killed them OOC? Certainly most of the slaves I know, on some level, get upset when things get extreme. Any slave that can calmly separate their character getting her ovaries hacked out of her during RP is either emotionally impaired or belongs in Hollywood, even then, you don't think that any form of RP requires the player to "connect" with their characters and what happens to them? Or do we find a bunch of wooden faced bots meekly saying "yes Master" at the drop of a hat?.  "Its only RP" is the biggest crock, its a convenient excuse to godmod at best, at worst it shows a complete lack of understanding what RP is all about.


Responding to this as it was still posted. It seems there is a confusion over what roleplaying is.

It's playing a role, with the objective of creating a narrative story. The point of this kind of roleplay is to 'live a story'. The players - as Efurou stated earlier - will almost always be friends, regardless of how 'rated R' the roleplay gets. The objective of this is to imagine, to story-tell, and to immerse.

I've quoted the section above because it typifies something completely different from this. Using a sentance like "how many slaves have you consoled because the OOC love of their lives has <done bad stuff>" is dangerous. If their OOC partner is abusing/exploiting them, that's not roleplay. If their OOC partner deserts them, that's not roleplay. In both situations the 'slave' does not exist; they are a person suffering at the hands of another. A real life person is not suffering because of the roleplay, they are suffering because of other real life people. A real life person does not continue to be a slave anywhere except within roleplay; when the scene is over, they are free, because the 'slave' element is entirely fictional. NOT allowing it to be completely fictional is the beginning of very murky waters; holding people to their roles within roleplay inside an emotional relationship is absolutely wrong, and fosters peoples' poorly-understoof belief that the roleplay/reality line is easily-blurred.

There is a fundamental difference between 'kinky relationships' and 'kinky roleplay' - relationships are something that invokes reality, performed for the betterment of those involved. So that people can be happy with each other, and form close bonds. Roleplaying is an activity undertaken by friends, defined by the fact that it is entirely fictional. The purpose of roleplay is to create a narrative and a story, and not - absolutely not - to define how real people interact with one-another.

This means,
if a real person playing a slave gets upset (OOC) that the story requires <bad stuff> to happen to them, and views this as a personal issue, they aren't roleplaying any longer
. It would be ridiculously dangerous for anyone to confuse a fictional character with who they are in reality. There are several high profile cases of people going 'too far' after roleplaying was accidentally mistaken for reality. Several murders have been attempted and committed over 'pretend' issues; from an MMO player who was so devastated by the loss of his fictional sword that he killed another real life person, all the way to a 'real life Gorean slave' who was exploited and abused in a case that ended in attempted murder. All of these are real issues, not roleplay ones, and these can be the costs of confusing roleplay and reality.

It is frankly scary that some of the SL Gor community cannot see this fundamentally dangerous oversight.

This confusion cuts both ways. Those who are concerned for the real life issue of human trafficking, slavery, and similar are wasting their time in threads such as these. They may as well be demonstrating for the release of the Mudokens, decrying the poor working conditions in the Moria Mines, or fighting for an Ewok sanctuary (depending mostly on your background knowledge of fiction). The real life issues are serious, and affect real people every day, whereas their Gorean equivilents are fictional. Is there a place for awareness? Sure. Is there a place for charitable causes to help the victims of real life crime? Absolutely. I applaud and support all of that, as well as promoting education of all of these issues and why the real issues are bad, and should be wiped from the plane of reality forever. The difference is that I would rather spend my time supporting real victims, in funding real causes that prevent this exploitative behaviour where people have no way of hitting alt+f4 at any time.

TL;DR, The focus of a roleplay is its storyline, the focus of a relationship is the happiness of the people within it.

Be good to each other.

Very, very well said! Thank you!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leia36 wrote:

By completely separating OOC from IC and making the interface entirely artificial and sterile, you lose the thing that makes RPing fun, emotion. The emotion of winning a battle, of delivering a child, of healing the sick, of helping the cause, love,  death, laughter, companionship. Take away the human feelings from SL Gor and what are you left with? Its that emotion that takes the RP in unusual directions, that makes the story human and therefore more real

Here is an example, A friend of mine, in getting to know the slaver that had bought her, told him that she disliked rodents. Guess what she found in her kennel the next day? And when she complained she was told "Its only RP, get over yourself" and was told to cool it by the Mod.. Its only roleplay?  Oh yes if its only RP, sell all the free women in your sim to the next passing slaver you meet and post the log here, I guarantee you they will NOT like it and will NOT consider it "only RP" 


A healthy separation of IC and OOC does NOT mean one has no feelings! I have feelings when I watch a movie - I laugh, I cry with the characters. The same thing when I read a book. It is similar in role play - of course people experience feelings - but that does NOT mean they believe it is happening to them, to their OOC or rl selves! Just because I might watch a love scene in a movie that touches me does not mean I now believe the actor is really my boyfriend. Same thing in role play...feelings yes....but they are more like watching a movie or reading a story.

Oh and your friend with the rodent? She should have faded that to black if she does not want to play it. Problem solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Efurou wrote:

Very, very well said! Thank you!


Thank you. I was inspired to write the above post when I saw your first reply. It sparked a debate between myself and a few of my roleplaying friends. The debate tackled a slightly different angle, but it was lively and immensely interesting to listen to and contribute towards. I have my friends, and your initial post, to thank for my insights. I am not (and have never been) an active participant in SL Gor; I'm not even much of a roleplayer by my own definition. I take a keen interest in a wide variety of subcultures, and I am glad that my personal opinion in this thread resonates with others with more direct experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has exploded into... exactly what I said I envision Gor rp areas being like when i posted here before. It started as educational, and I applaud the early posts. The rest of this thread is the reason why I'll go to gorean shops, but not gorean rp areas. It's EXACTLY why.

Seriously, compare the number of posts that actually give some detail on how this style of rp works, what it's based on, and what to expect if you want to give it a try to those that, well, don't. On the other forum that was linked, one of the Gorean people there said something along the lines of "The people within Gorean rp don't sell it well." The bottom line is that he's right. You don't. Arguements about the importance of emotions and attachment, etc, and about the importance of rp in general just make people walk away and look for something else. I'm ony one example. And while I know only a small percentage of people in SL, my view on it is shared by most who I have met. And that view is that it's unwillingness by those who play gor to get past the rhetoric and actually talk about the subject, to answer that very valid question, "what is gor?" that makes it altogether unappealing.

To simply make analogies that could relate in rl.... Would you puy a book by an unknown author without first reading the back of the cover? Better yet, of all the books you have read, how few caught your interest without a personal recommendation from someone? Something along the lines of "I think you'll like this It's about....." Well, "It's about...." is the phrase that makes you open the book to the first page. How many of us will dedicate two hours to watch a movie without watching a preview, or at least reading the description? That is where gorean roleplayers fail miserably. It's like you've all ripped off the cover, and gave a one line review along the lines of, "There's some sex and slavery, and other stuff you might actually be interested in, but instead of telling you, I'm going to force you to read the book."

In terms of rp, SOME attachment to a character is what makes for realistic scenes. But NOT beyond what is healthy. SOME discomfort in rp can be a good thing. Some of my most rewarding moments have been when I felt some stress as the person behind the keyboard about what may happen to my character. It's an essential element to any good story.  I have had characters permanently scarred and permanently injured. Not because it's what I wanted, or even because it's what my opponent wanted, but it was the most realistic outcome of the events that led to it. And I have played those characters for months after. Having done so, I would agree with the mod who wouldn't listen to the complaint about the rat in the example above. In scenes of rape, excessive violence, or excessive grossness, there is always the option to either void or fade to black. Contacting a mod to complain about a rodent is a sign that someone couldn't handle rp. As for the need to console someonne OOCly about something that happened ICly, if someone needs that beyond, "It sucks that you have to make a new character." or "Yeah, I can see how dealing with that is going to make future rp difficult" then maybe they cannot handle the style of rp that the sim they're on provides.

The moral is, the only reason in the world to rp is because you find it enjoyable. If you don't you need to either find a sim that you DO enjoy, or quit rping. And when a question like "What is gor?" degrades to what this thread has become, it gives the impression to the rest of the sl community that Gor is not something we would enjoy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


solstyse wrote:

 As for the need to console someonne OOCly about something that happened ICly, if someone needs that beyond, "It sucks that you have to make a new character." or "Yeah, I can see how dealing with that is going to make future rp difficult" then maybe they cannot handle the style of rp that the sim they're on provides.

 

Nice post, thank you for your insight, just to clear up RE what happened to my sister in Turia, It was the betrayal OOC that hurt. There are various factors that added to the hurt, and yes that is always a danger when a person moves to a SL/RL relationship.

After the fact, part of her profile reads

Just remember that there is a real person driving the keyboard behind this Avatar, not a computer programme; a person who still feels pain/pleasure, fear/joy, love/hate, loyalty/BETRAYAL & the whole gamut of human emotions

My sister is not new to gor in fact one of her old Masters said of her "What she doesn't know about being a slave and RP isn't worth knowing"

This kind of hurt is a pitfall for even the most experienced RPers, when the lines between IC & OOC blur because of love.

I know I am probably going to be dragged over the coals again for this post but its the truth in this particular case, again its not a hypothetical case, it really happened. Feel free to IM me and you can talk to her yourself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leia,

It's terrible that anyone would get their rl feelings hurt. I'm guessing that means that the rat was symbolic of something bigger? If the guy did that to her on purpose to bother her OOCly, then that is poor on his part. I can see how a complaint like that would be difficult for a moderator to understand though. They are only there to keep roleplay fair. To interfere in relationships that have gone to an OOC level would be overstepping their authority. And I hope you're wrong about getting raked over the coals for caring about a friend. I really do.

I'm a little confused though. You seem to like Gor, but your responses here seem more like a warning to stay away from it. People getting rl feelings hurt, and doing things on purpose just to upset other players... It doesn't shine a positive light on Gor. The examples you give make me think that those who DO rp gor would be happier somewhere else.

But back to the original question, which is "What is gor?" That really hasn't been answered in all these pages. There has been a lot of arguing and insulting, and I really hope that stops. But with pages reaching double digits, nobody has talked about what makes Gor unique, what kind of characters it has, what those characters do, what can happen only in gor, what would attract someone who has never heard of the books before they rezzed in sl... And most importantly, why is it so much harder to get these answers from a gorean rp'er than any other rp'er in sl?

That underlined question is the most important. The character I play is a tribal vandal in a human only post apoc sim, and I often get mistaken for a "gorean panther" whatever that means. Yeah, when I ask, the people who made the comparison act like to know anything about gor is such an exclusive right, they won't even tell me what they're comparing me to. By contrast, if anyone wants to know about my rp, I'll gladly answer them, in as much detail as I can. (although, if they ask here, I'll make a new thread and just put a link here. I really want to keep this thread to it's purpose.)  It's that "You don't have a right to know unless you read a bunch of boks cover to cover" attitude that leads to much of the anti-gor sentiment in sl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

solstyse wrote:

But back to the original question, which is "What is gor?" That really hasn't been answered in all these pages.

You are right - so here is an attempt to explain the basics...

The gorean novels are written by John Norman.

Gor is a planet much like earth – and it is hidden from earth. We earthlings do not know it exists.

Gor is ruled by the Priest Kings. The Priest Kings are big bugs who have determined that the humans of Gor will live in a certain way. The Priest Kings do not allow the inhabitants of Gor modern weapons and many other things we have on earth. People on gor live more like we would have lived in medieval times. No cars and so on.

The Priest Kings do, however, allow some very advanced medical techniques for the inhabitants of Gor. They physicians of Gor give people stabilization shots who keep them young and beautiful for hundreds of years. They also have great birth control who when taken once works immediately and lasts as long as one wants.

The Priest Kings can see what is going on and they can blue flame people who are not getting with the program and would, for example, develop technology that they do not allow.

Not all people on Gor know what the priest Kings are. Gor has a caste system and higher castes usually possess much more knowledge about the nature of the Priest Kings – and also about  Planet called earth. Lower castes might believe the Priest Kings are something more metaphysical, like a God or something.

The nemesis of the Priest Kings are the Kurii. They are big animals who can talk and stuff. In a lot of the gorean novels the Kurii – often with help from Goreans and I think also from earthlings – plot stuff against the priest kings.

Both the Kurii and the Priest Kings have the ability to travel in space. It seems they abduct good looking women from earth pretty regularly. It is always humans though, who are sent to do the actual abducting. Such women are not only abducted to be sold on Gor as slaves – often it is part of a larger plot in the conflict between Priest Kings and Kurii.

Gor is a male dominated society. Men are dominant over women – but that does not mean women have no rights. Free women belong to their respective caste and often are engaged in caste work. In their home cities they have the protection of the law – and cannot just be enslaved. But there are behaviours that can get them into trouble – the worst of it is behaving like a slave. If she does that can be put on trial and maybe enslaved.

The woman of other cities are fair game for gorean man – and they often make it a sport to abduct one and enslave her.

The gorean woman’s natural state is to be submissive to a man. She can only find true freedom and sexual fulfillment when she is fully dominated by a man – hence when she enslaved. So every woman basically has to pay a price for her station in life – the slave loses her rights and freedom but she finds true happiness and revels in her  natural state in a collar.  The free woman is free and respected, can have a free companion and a family, can do caste work and all those things. But she will never experience the things the slave can – the whole sexual fulfilment and stuff.

There are many different cultures on Gor – but most of them speak gorean. John Norman borrowed freely from earth cultures to make up his gorean cultures. When role playing gor one can choose from Torvaldsland (no caste system, northern Viking theme), Ar (Roman), Cos (Greek), Tahari (Arabian desert), Schendi (Africa)....and many more.

 

There are also panther girls and talunas in Gor. They are the female rebels of gorean society. They are usually free women (some slaves) who ran away  from situations they did not like and live in groups in the woods. The panther girls live in the norther forest, Talunas in the jungle I think. They wear skimpy clothing, have weapons – and make a living by hunting, trading and stuff like that. Those women are sometimes hunted by men and enslaved. But they usually have a good advantage in the woods where they live – and they do capture and enslave people – especially men who come into their territory.

 

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

As a role player – it is important to choose what kind of role play one is interested in. There are pure role play sims in sl gor where IC and OOC is separated as in any other rp sim. All the  usual rp etiquette applies.

But there are also lifestyle sims in sl gor. In those sims people really do not role play. They see their avatar as the representation of their own real selves in the virtual world. When reading the rules of a place it is usually pretty easy to see with is which.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, that is what came to mind – this is by no means complete and I am no expert on the subject. I read two of the gorean novels – maybe three. But it is a quick overview to see what it is all about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For interests sake, I will clear up what happened to my sister M and her exMaster B, in Turia. There were no rats involved, that is an entirely different event. This story is not about me, everything I will impart comes from what M told me.Also this is not an indictment of Gor, could easily have happened in any RP involving violence and sexuality.
 
B & M where a happy couple, living as Master and slave in Turia. B had a wondering eye though and M knew it. When they became a couple M made B promise her that she would be his only slave. B found another slavegirl and collared her, which was the first problem, M put up with it because of her love for B and they continued on.
 
M is quite the dancer and is a very generous and giving soul. She shared her Master and her dancing skills with the new slavegirl. She agreed to this new dynamic as long as B only did OOC and RL with her, furthermore they both agreed that skype and phone calls would only be between M & B and that the new girl would only be IC.
 
At this point everything was fine, but again it was the small head that got the big head in trouble when B started skyping and phoning the new girl. M found out about it and got very upset, she confronted B and he retaliated by making her into a coinslut for a few weeks. M is very serious about her monogamy and really had a bad reaction to her IC punishment. Talking to her a few weeks ago she told me that she was throwing up into a bucket as she was doing this. You see M is a very loyal girl, very principled and she obeyed her Master to the letter, hoping to regain his love and her place as his only slave, she was deeply in love with him and love makes a women put up with all kinds of rubbish.
 
B however was completely enamored of the new girl, stepped up his campaign of betrayal, small things at first until he was making her do things in RL that are quite horrid and she being who she is was prepared to follow through with these things on the outside chance of winning B back.  M also fought back, the way a good slave does, small things that increasingly irritated B until it all came to a head one Saturday morning. M begged B to take her back, in any way and B's reply was to kill her OOC and dump her body into the river.
 
Sordid isn't it? And I know M's actions and reactions seem silly if not crazy to an outsider, however again it is amazing what a grown woman will put up with for love. It also illustrates how love can and does blur the line between IC and OOC, sometimes with nasty consequences.
 
At this point is where my Master and myself enter into the story, I was at home with him when he said we needed to go help a friend of his. So we went and consoled her, my Master asked me to help her pick up the pieces which I have been doing for the past two months. Its just about healed now, and from what I heard B didn't keep the new slave long anyway, bit ironic that...
 
I know both M and B will probably read this reply and any errors are mine, however that is at the core of the matter as I understand them.
 
This whole affair resulted in me wanting to go see Gor for myself, so I made an alt and off my Master and I went. My Master is an experienced gorean Riper and soon I was thoroughly enjoying myself and the new friends I made, still am as a matter of fact, even started reading the books.
 
I do like Gor, however the post you refer to was a reference to the old debate of what is acceptable gor rp. Here is a for instance, I overheard a free man and woman debating OOC whether shaving  off all of a slaves hair is 'gorean' or not. The extremist gorean RPers would nod sagely and smile "aye nothing wrong with a bit of humiliation"...the BTB people would argue that damaging a loveslave was most decidedly ungorean. As you can imagine the debate was rather heated. You see the man wanted to punish the slave for greeting his 'wife' incorrectly, because the person behind the screen was so in love with the free woman, and because of his RL youth, he used IC actions to show OOC devotion to the woman he loves. Because he is a freeman, there was little the slave could do but plead for forgiveness. (she kept her hair)

There are different levels of limits, some Goreans are quite tame, no SLex, just RP of gorean life. Others want to push the RP to the absolute extreme, doing things that would land them in jail or dead in RL.

That's were the conflict arises and why I crossed out my reply, after looking at her profile I realised that she (Efurou) was of the latter group and that further debate would be senseless.

Different ways of experiencing gor you see, one pushing the limits sexually and otherwise, one just there mostly for fun and the social aspect. Neither is more correct than the other and both have there place in SL Gor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Leia36 wrote:

For interests sake, I will clear up what happened to my sister M and her exMaster B, in Turia. There were no rats involved, that is an entirely different event. This story is not about me, everything I will impart comes from what M told me.Also this is not an indictment of Gor, could easily have happened in any RP involving violence and sexuality.

 

B & M where a happy couple, living as Master and slave in Turia. B had a wondering eye though and M knew it. When they became a couple M made B promise her that she would be his only slave. B found another slavegirl and collared her, which was the first problem, M put up with it because of her love for B and they continued on.

 

M is quite the dancer and is a very generous and giving soul. She shared her Master and her dancing skills with the new slavegirl. She agreed to this new dynamic as long as B only did OOC and RL with her, furthermore they both agreed that skype and phone calls would only be between M & B and that the new girl would only be IC.

 

At this point everything was fine, but again it was the small head that got the big head in trouble when B started skyping and phoning the new girl. M found out about it and got very upset, she confronted B and he retaliated by making her into a coinslut for a few weeks. M is very serious about her monogamy and really had a bad reaction to her IC punishment. Talking to her a few weeks ago she told me that she was throwing up into a bucket as she was doing this. You see M is a very loyal girl, very principled and she obeyed her Master to the letter, hoping to regain his love and her place as his only slave, she was deeply in love with him and love makes a women put up with all kinds of rubbish.

 

B however was completely enamored of the new girl, stepped up his campaign of betrayal, small things at first until he was making her do things in RL that are quite horrid and she being who she is was prepared to follow through with these things on the outside chance of winning B back.  M also fought back, the way a good slave does, small things that increasingly irritated B until it all came to a head one Saturday morning. M begged B to take her back, in any way and B's reply was to kill her OOC and dump her body into the river.

 

Sordid isn't it? And I know M's actions and reactions seem silly if not crazy to an outsider, however again it is amazing what a grown woman will put up with for love. It also illustrates how love can and does blur the line between IC and OOC, sometimes with nasty consequences.

 

At this point is where my Master and myself enter into the story, I was at home with him when he said we needed to go help a friend of his. So we went and consoled her, my Master asked me to help her pick up the pieces which I have been doing for the past two months. Its just about healed now, and from what I heard B didn't keep the new slave long anyway, bit ironic that...

 

I know both M and B will probably read this reply and any errors are mine, however that is at the core of the matter as I understand them.

 

This whole affair resulted in me wanting to go see Gor for myself, so I made an alt and off my Master and I went. My Master is an experienced gorean Riper and soon I was thoroughly enjoying myself and the new friends I made, still am as a matter of fact, even started reading the books.

 

I do like Gor, however the post you refer to was a reference to the old debate of what is acceptable gor rp. Here is a for instance, I overheard a free man and woman debating OOC whether shaving  off all of a slaves hair is 'gorean' or not. The extremist gorean RPers would nod sagely and smile "aye nothing wrong with a bit of humiliation"...the BTB people would argue that damaging a loveslave was most decidedly ungorean. As you can imagine the debate was rather heated. You see the man wanted to punish the slave for greeting his 'wife' incorrectly, because the person behind the screen was so in love with the free woman, and because of his RL youth, he used IC actions to show OOC devotion to the woman he loves. Because he is a freeman, there was little the slave could do but plead for forgiveness. (she kept her hair)

There are different levels of limits, some Goreans are quite tame, no SLex, just RP of gorean life. Others want to push the RP to the absolute extreme, doing things that would land them in jail or dead in RL.

That's were the conflict arises and why I crossed out my reply, after looking at her profile I realised that she (Efurou) was of the latter group and that further debate would be senseless.

Different ways of experiencing gor you see, one pushing the limits sexually and otherwise, one just there mostly for fun and the social aspect. Neither is more correct than the other and both have there place in SL Gor.

Ha? I am of what latter group? I want to do extreme things that would land me in jail rl? Can you clarify?

About your whole story about the slave.....oh my....

Here it goes...

 

- the whole thing was completely OOC - OOC she is NOT a slave. OOC she always has a choice and it is her choice that she did all the things she did.

- having said that - her IC owner was an idiot - and he played with her emotions - but that has NOTHING to do with gorean role play. It is a perfectly OOC relationship problem where a guy has the hots for another woman. Happens in sl, in real life - again, no connection to gorean role play.

- if people agree to OOC limits then they need to sort out OOC how they handle it when one person in the relationship does not want to play by those limits anymore. In the case of your friend - she would have left the relationship when the other girl came in.

- Skype and phone calls have nothing to do with IC gorean role play. It is simply a case of a guy who overstepped limits he has agreed upon with his sl partner.

- Love does not blur the line between IC and OOC - people do. I have had sl love interests that I was very close with OOC - and IC we played enemies or we played that we hardly know each other - or we were business partners. Just because someone is in love OOC does not mean that has to be played out IC - same is true the other way around. I have role played being in love with people I am friends with, people I hardly knew. That is called IC/OOC separation.

- All role players arre responsible for themselves. They can set limits for themselves - they can fade things to black. People should take advantage of those things instead of arguing like little kids if a head can be shaved. In the end - it was the  person's decision if a head can be shaved or not who plays the character who would walk around bald.

I sounds to me like you are still pretty new to role play. Is that true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never said

 "you want to do extreme things that would land you in jail rl"

I said

"Others want to push the RP to the absolute extreme, doing things that would land them in jail or dead in RL."

Clearly if you did some of the more extreme things ROLEPLAYED in GorSL like murder, rape, abduction etc in RL you would eventually end up in jail or dead. FACT

From looking at your profile, you clearly like pushing the limits. I am not judging you, I am making an observation, based upon your public profile as to how you RP. Nothing wrong with that, to quote myself;

Different ways of experiencing gor you see, one pushing the limits sexually and otherwise, one just there mostly for fun and the social aspect. Neither is more correct than the other and both have there place in SL Gor.

I fail to understand why you think your extreme brand of RP and SL Gor is any more valid then any other kind.


 

I posted the story NOT as an argument about IC/OOC it was a clarification to a reply. I fully understand that both people made a royal mess of the situation.

No she is not a slave, and like I said, to an outsider it seems strange, but knowing her, its just like her. It came down to betrayal, and her holding on too long to an impossible situation. I don't know if you have ever had a serious relationship, but one does not simply tear up the contract at the first hint of trouble and walk away in a huff. Usually it takes time to sour and sometimes people are dumb, holding on to an impossible love,, happens every day.

I really wish you would understand what I wrote vis-a-vix the shaven head. Within the RP, the slave has made an error, The slave can, as you say, accept the punishment or fade to black, that is a given. Whether shaving the girls head is gorean or not in the RP is what the debate was about, is head shaving a valid gorean RP?. In other words would a gorean freeman shave another freeman's loveslave's head as punishment. That's why the debate occurs OOC, it was not personal at all, I meerly happened to observe it.

I may be new to gor, however I am not new to RP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Leia36 wrote:

I never said

 "you want to do extreme things that would land you in jail rl"

I said

"Others want to push the RP to the absolute extreme, doing things that would land them in jail or dead in RL."

Clearly if you did some of the more extreme things ROLEPLAYED in GorSL like murder, rape, abduction etc in RL you would eventually end up in jail or dead. FACT

From looking at your profile, you clearly like pushing the limits. I am not judging you, I am making an observation, based upon your public profile as to how you RP. Nothing wrong with that, to quote myself;

Different ways of experiencing gor you see, one pushing the limits sexually and otherwise, one just there mostly for fun and the social aspect. Neither is more correct than the other and both have there place in SL Gor.

I fail to understand why you think your extreme brand of RP and SL Gor is any more valid then any other kind.

Role play is role play - my kind of rp is not more or less extreme then anyone else's. It is not real - it is a fantasy, not more and not less. It has nothing, NOT ONE THING to do with rl. Especially in gorean role play - enslaving people, killing them, rape, assassination - is NOT extreme at all. It is simply part of the theme. And NO, I do not push limits at all.  Pushing limits means I would go further then people feel comfortable with - it would mean I am not quite accepting their the limits they set for themselves and wanting them to step out of that comfort zone. That is NOT my thing at all - I only play with people who are very willing and I always respect everyone's limits!

I fail to see when I ever said my kind of rp is more valid then anyone else's. I have said over and over again - if people do not like stuff they should fade it to black.

It seems to me that you are the one who has the problem with the gorean world where rape, killing, and the enslaving of women is simply another day in a gorean life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leia36 wrote:

I really wish you would understand what I wrote vis-a-vix the shaven head. Within the RP, the slave has made an error, The slave can, as you say, accept the punishment or fade to black,
that is a given
. Whether shaving the girls head is gorean or not in the RP is what the debate was about, is head shaving a valid gorean RP?. In other words would a gorean freeman shave another freeman's loveslave's hea-d as punishment. That's why the debate occurs OOC, it was not personal at all, I meerly happened to observe it.

I may be new to gor, however I am not new to RP.

Let me clear up the confusion for you...

- if the slave made an IC mistake then she should get an IC punishment. If she decides to fade the punishment to black does NOT mean she does not accept the punishment IC or OOC. It only means that the rp continues as if it happened. So in this case her hair would have grown back already - something like that. Fading to black never means that someone invalidates rp - the scene is just not played out.

- Head shaving is very gorean. Most slave girls that were sent on boats or something like that - had their heads shaved

- Would some guy shave the head of another guy's slave? I don't know. It could happen IC - it could be good conflict rp with the  owner demanding compensation for it - maybe trying to take him to court over it - or whatever. As long as it stays all IC - I would say go  for it and have fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Efurou wrote:

- Would some guy shave the head of another guy's slave? I don't know. It could happen IC - it could be good conflict rp with the  owner demanding compensation for it - maybe trying to take him to court over it - or whatever. As long as it stays all IC - I would say go  for it and have fun.

Yes. I have done that to someones slave. She told my slave (at the time I had one) that "my hair is so much prettier than yours, so much softer and more luxurious." It wasn't after i was done with her. Yes, i had to give the city a silver tarn for it, well worth it in my opinion. She did have to remove her hair, one of the stipulations of the sim is all RP must be done.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Leia36 wrote:

 

From looking at your profile, you clearly like pushing the limits. I am not judging you, I am making an observation, based upon your public profile as to how you RP. Nothing wrong with that, to quote myself;

Different ways of experiencing gor you see, one pushing the limits sexually and otherwise, one just there mostly for fun and the social aspect. Neither is more correct than the other and both have there place in SL Gor.

I fail to understand why you think your extreme brand of RP and SL Gor is any more valid then any other kind.

 


 

I am unclear as to what you see in her profile that is pushing the limits. RP is RP. Dulcet would be pushing the limits.. Of course that also implies YOUR limits. What is limiting to one is not  limiting to another. I could tell you with certainty a good number of people find Gor to be past their limits of good RP.  Personally I see nothing that is beyond my limits in her profile. And  quite a few that sound like fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough I withdraw my statement in regards to your limits,

Please don't make inference on my own perception of Gor, I have little problem with what occurs around my character, I have seen a lot in my short time in gor, bonds getting killed, beaten, raped. Free murdered, FW punishment with enslavement. Not once have I ever gone OOC or created drama. When faced with situations that are not so nice for my character I have always RPed out the consequences. My limit list for gor is 2 lines, keep it gorean and 3 day cap.

What I don't like are people who use IC consequences for OOC conflicts, I have written about M & B,. To me and the majority of my friends what B did is wrong. There were so many things he could have done, yet he chose to hurt her IC in a way he knew would cause her the most grief in RL.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

 

I am unclear as to what you see in her profile that is pushing the limits. RP is RP. Dulcet would be pushing the limits.. Of course that also implies YOUR limits. What is limiting to one is not  limiting to another. I could tell you with certainty a good number of people find Gor to be past their limits of good RP.  Personally I see nothing that is beyond my limits in her profile. And  quite a few that sound like fun.

Hehe, I do not even state any kind of limits or what I will or will not play in my profile. But you are right - I like to play some fun stuff.

I am pretty simple when it comes to role play - I usually go with whatever happens. If it becomes too tendious or I just don't enjoy it anymore - I offer a fade to black and the other person is allowed to determine the outcome.

I can be nice like that :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...