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The difference between public and private


Bree Giffen
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I was wandering around SL today. It's amazing how many discrete private islands are out there. There are different ways the owners tell you to stay out. There are islands you can't even TP over to. There are islands that let you rez into a corner but the entire island has ban lines. There are also ones that have orbs that boot you out after a time limit.

But then there are the ones that let you in but they never really give you any clue if you are welcome there or not. If I see a store, I assume it's ok but if I see just houses I start to wonder if I'm wandering around private land.I know when I look at About Land and it says 'John and Karen's home'. Thats a bit of a clue. If it says, 'Beach club', then I think something else.

What do you think? What things indicate that a land is for private or public use?

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Bree Giffen wrote:

 

What do you think? What things indicate that a land is for private or public use?

That's a tricky one.  Re: homes I simply don't enter.  However, when the subject of orbs/banlines has come up over the years, many residents say they don't mind people going inside their homes as long as they are respectful if asked to leave when the owners show up.  Some residents go so far as to say they welcome visitors, even if they're at home.

Expanding beyond private residences to privately held land is a whole other issue and I agree it's a bit confusing.  I think people who are adamant about not wanting others on their land will use either banlines or orbs.  I would not hesitate to wander onto land that I found interesting, not that I wander much anymore, lol, but would check radar to see if the owner is about and, if so, send an IM to her to ask if it is ok to be on the land.

 

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A friend of mine rents a 4096 on a residential island. He uses a orb with a 10 second time limit to keep unwanted people out. By the default settings on the orb, if they do not leave, they are teleported home, banned for 3 hours from that certain parcel.

Most people do not have the same respect in SL as they do in RL about a persons home.

Would you just walk into a stranger's home and look around? Of course not. That happens so often in SL. He once logged in and found people having sex on his bed! That is when he got the orb. He kicked and banned those people immediately.


I would consider a home totally private and off limits unless you are invited into said home. Public are your music venues, stores and shops, hang out places, etc.

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A private residence and its grounds should never be entered without an invitation from the owner in my opinion, if they are home or not. The exception would be a friends home where you have been told you are welcome anytime.  You wouldn't do that in RL so why would you want to invade someone's property in SL?  Even if you think of SL as a game and everything should be open, they doesn't mean the owner does.  I've come home many times when if forgot to put up ban lines or activate security to find people in my house doing all kinds of things, including having sex.  A couple times there was even a large party going on.  Some will leave immediately, but  I've had some very rude ones just flat our refuse to leave and threaten me.  This is why I won't live anyplace where I can't use ban lines or a security orb.

Obvious commercial properties are OK to enter. 

My rule of thumb for ones where you just don't know is to see if the property is in search.  If it is, then its OK to enter it and explore.  You can also look in the land description and see if it specifically says visitors are welcome.  I assume if a property is not in search and their is nothing in the land description welcoming visitors that it is intended to be private and I respect that.

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i got a nice story for you ,

he build a crasy house on a big lands ,

he got the most wanted car,

he pay a lot for it ,he work 1000h to make it well,

but no one can go there this is useless

For me dont bane everybody from your lands or i will have nothing to see(explore)

 

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Urzul wrote:

i got a nice story for you ,

he build a crasy house on a big lands ,

he got the most wanted car,

he pay a lot for it ,he work 1000h to make it well,

but no one can go there this is useless

For me dont bane everybody from your lands or i will have nothing to see(explore)

 

Literally thousands of people in SL do exactly that. But there's still so much to see in SL, you couldn't possibly see it all anyway, especially with as fast as things change!

I don't mind people wandering around my house, just don't wander around my house and not speak to me! That's just rude~ lol, really tho.

 

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If a parcel is listed in Search, it's public.

If not... well, it raises the age-old topic: what does privacy really mean in SL? Originally, there was no such thing--and no expectation of it. There really is no requirement that any form of privacy exist at all in a virtual world, but the idea gradually gained traction in SL, and privacy-related features were added to land.

To me, still, if there's no obvious indication that the landowner wants privacy, my default assumption is that they welcome guests, regardless of whether it appears to be a house or an oil refinery. 

I don't walk into people's houses in real life, but  I look at pictures of houses in magazines. On the face of it, which is more like Second Life?

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if i want privacy to build or change my land or whatever..iwill lock it down so i can do it undisturbed..

or if i want to be alone and enjoy doing whatever..maybe just riding my horse or cleaning out my inventory and rezzing a bunch of stuff..

otherwise i'll unlock it and if someone comes by and wants to check things out..i never have a problem with it..

it's so easy to change land settings to on or off that i just use those when i want privacy..

when i'm not there i don't have a problem with people using my things..as long as they are not breaking the TOS in any way or bugging any others that may be there...

one thing i hate is someone coming into my land giving other people their version of their own rules..

that don't fly with me for a second..

 

BUT i don't have my sim anymore ..maybe when i get back inworld if i ever do this season i will get another..

just taking my time getting back is all hehehe

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Qie Niangao wrote:

If a parcel is listed in Search, it's public.

If not... well, it raises the age-old topic: what does privacy really mean in SL? Originally, there was no such thing--and no expectation of it. There really is no requirement that any form of privacy exist at all in a virtual world, but the idea gradually gained traction in SL, and privacy-related features were added to land.

To me, still, if there's no obvious indication that the landowner wants privacy, my default assumption is that they welcome guests, regardless of whether it appears to be a house or an oil refinery. 

I don't walk into people's houses in real life, but  I look at pictures of houses in magazines. On the face of it, which is more like Second Life?

 

Since I've been involved in discussions about this subject in which you held opposing views, I found this very interesting. The comment you made that there really wasn't any privacy at all when SL first started says a lot. I got here in the latter part of 2008; my experiences in that regard reflect the conditions I found when I got here. But it wasn't really that so much as the last comment, about the magazines.

You're right, lots of people have pictures of their houses in magazines, but I wouldn't do that for all the tea in China. Even if I thought my house's interior was the most beautifully designed space in the history of dwellings, I'd never want someone to take photos for publication, let alone INVITE them to do so. Having a photo crew walking around in my house oohing and ahhing would give me the creeps. There's no way I'd permit that.

I guess my point is that everyone has different ideas about personal space, even when that space exists only in some digital ones and zeroes.

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Urzul wrote:

i got a nice story for you ,

he build a crasy house on a big lands ,

he got the most wanted car,

he pay a lot for it ,he work 1000h to make it well,

but no one can go there this is useless

For me dont bane everybody from your lands or i will have nothing to see(explore)

 

 

I have a two private homes that my partner and I built together so that it is perfect for us.   One of our homes is on a private sim but it is not a mansion and we don't have fancy cars and stuff around it.  It is a cozy log cabin with only what we need inside and the cabin and furnishings we built exactly the way we want it.  It is set in a beautiful mountain landscape reproducing a RL location that we both love.  Our other home is in a location on the waterfront where we can step out of our door and go sailing.  The home itself is of modest size but is furnished with a lot of detail like it would be in RL and reflects our idea of a perfect weekend retreat.  We built both for our pleasure, not for anyone else's.  I don't care if anyone else ever sees it. It is enough that we do, although our friends are welcome for the pleasure of their company alone. 

To say unless everyone can see it, it is useless makes me wonder what your motivation would be for making your place a crazy house on the biggest land with the most wanted car.  Sounds like it is only to show off.  If that is your idea of perfection go for it, but it isn't ours. We'd rather see a small home furnished in RL detail than a huge mansion that is sparsely furnished, which most are.

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I live on a sim that is generel open for the public. It has a club and some shops on it, but also houses for rent. I have lived a long time on the ground and have a tiny island in the sky now. Both times I never had problems with unwanted visitors. Only a few people are around on normal daytimes and they have themselfes houses there or are friends of the residents there.

On eventnights, some from outside of the sim come to the club, but there is no reason to leave the club and stray around.

Even if someone lands by accident on at my home, I wouldn't mind that much. If I'm there at the same time, I would greet them and ask about their exploring tour and if they like my new house. Sure, if they would have some pixelhumping on my land, I would ask them to leave. :catvery-happy:

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I don't walk into people's houses in real life, but  I look at pictures of houses in magazines. On the face of it, which is more like Second Life?

Pictures in a magazine are there with the consent of the owners.  Magazine photographers don't invade your house and yard to take pictures with impunity just because you didn't erect a electrical fence.  There is no comparison between this and going on private property in SL without invitation or welcome.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

...

To me, still, if there's no obvious indication that the landowner wants privacy, my default assumption is that they welcome guests, regardless of whether it appears to be a house or an oil refinery. 

...

I agree.

 

 


Ceka Cianci wrote:

...

when i'm not there i don't have a problem with people using my things..as long as they are not breaking the TOS in any way or bugging any others that may be there...
...

 

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

I don't walk into people's houses in real life, but  I look at pictures of houses in magazines. On the face of it, which is more like Second Life?

Pictures in a magazine are there with the consent of the owners.  Magazine photographers don't invade your house and yard to take pictures with impunity just because you didn't erect a electrical fence.  There is no comparison between this and going on private property in SL without invitation or welcome.

Except that a "house" in SL really is more like a magazine picture of a house than it is like a real house, and so it's not that surprising that some folks see SL itself as more like that magazine: a place where people post their house pictures. And there are plenty of ways to keep those pictures locked away in private scrapbooks, shown only to friends.

(I do wish, however, that people wouldn't choose the borders of Linden public ways to store their private scrapbooks; so many passersby are forced to look at them against their will, and get the "death penalty" as a result.)

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The only real option of privacy available to people in SL are closed sims. I assume I can go and look everywhere apart from fully closed sims. If I arrive at ban lines and see people on the land, then I will just move my cam inside to see what they are up to.

I sell prefabs and have done so for a long time. I was one of the first to introduce privacy windows because a customer asked for them and I thought it would be a good selling point. When I started doing this I told people it was pointless as a snooper could just cam right in through the wall, but people still came to expect privacy to be built into all new prefabs, It's generally become an industry standard.

Locked doors used to be pointless too, I don't know if they still are, but you used to be able to pass right through the wall of a build by sitting on a prim and moving it. I released a few houses without any doors or privacy windows and they just did not sell. Customers expected doors that lock and privacy windows despite the fact that it did not protect their privacy. 

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I have a security orb on my two skybox homes.  I installed it for reasons similar to another post, namely I had some unpleasant visitors once, who were threatening and abusive, and I could not initially eject them; they seemed to have some way of thwarting the normal land perms eject.

I did eventually eject them, but my female friend who was with me was so upset due to these malicious intruders that I went straight out and bought a security orb.

It reports anyone entering my parcel, and gives them 30 seconds to vacate.   These ones with a 10 second warning are a bit much, imo, by the time you rez you are booted back home.  Most people will leave no problem, and 99% of them I send a polite IM to explaining they are welcome, but I have the security orb to keep out the not so nice visitors.

It is a much more elegant solution than ban lines, and a purchase I have never regretted.

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Sigren Panthar wrote:

I have a security orb on my two skybox homes.  I installed it for reasons similar to another post, namely I had some unpleasant visitors once, who were threatening and abusive, and I could not initially eject them; they seemed to have some way of thwarting the normal land perms eject.

I did eventually eject them, but my female friend who was with me was so upset due to these malicious intruders that I went straight out and bought a security orb.

It reports anyone entering my parcel,
and gives them 30 seconds to vacate.   These ones with a 10 second warning are a bit much
, imo, by the time you rez you are booted back home.  Most people will leave no problem, and 99% of them I send a polite IM to explaining they are welcome, but I have the security orb to keep out the not so nice visitors.

It is a much more elegant solution than ban lines, and a purchase I have never regretted.

"and gives them 30 seconds to vacate.   These ones with a 10 second warning are a bit much"

First off, I really do believe most intrusions are accidental.  And totally agree the 10 seconds is a bit much.

When I set mine up I did a little test.  I put a long fuse (60 seconds) on it.  When I TP'd friends in I timed how long it would take for them to tell me they were about to get booted and then for me to cam to my orb and turn it off. 

I arrived at 45 seconds being a fair and equitable amount of time which especially allows for people who are on vehicles to clear my property.

The script for my Orb is full perm so on my project list is to add a chat command for turning it on and off so I don't have to Cam to it.

 

 

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I've changed my wandering habits from when I started. I no longer go into people's houses. Partly because I have my own home and I understand the violation one feels when someone goes in uninvited and partly because I find people's houses boring.

 

I still cam into houses to see if it is indeed a house. I have found lots of nice public buildings that first appear as houses.

 

45 seconds for an orb sounds good. I think orb messages should also be specific as to what area needs to be avoided. I landed outside a house once and got a warning. I scooted off to a nearby beach and started wandering until I got booted home. I thought just the house was off limits.

 

 

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Shelby Silverspar wrote:

I don't mind people wandering around my house, just don't wander around my house and not speak to me! That's just rude~ lol, really tho.

 

LOL - This reminded me of an incident when I was brand new in SL.  I mean so new that I thought if I closed my drapes no one could see inside my house. :smileyvery-happy:

So I was renting this two-story house in a themed sim.  The house was huge, fronted a two-lane street and included a private beach.  SL heaven!  I tend to be on SL very late at night my time and also have low lighting RL, basically just enough to not kill my eyes when I look at the monitor. 

One night I'm upstairs in my SL home trying on a bunch of freebie clothes.  It's about 2 am RL my time, house dark and very quiet.  Also night in SL.  Out of the blue I hear the door to my SL house open and see a green dot on the minimap.  It sounds silly now but at the time, being so new to SL plus the whole "everything was dark and quiet in both worlds," I was a bit freaked out.  The doors were locked, so how did the person get in?  (Forgot how many little "nuances" there are in SL for a new resident to learn.)  I quickly put some clothes on and go downstairs to find this chick wandering around my living room.  I said, "May I help you?"  Silence.  Chick continues walking around.  I try again, "Do you mind telling me why you're in my house?"  No answer as intruder continues walking about ie. not afk.

I was getting really annoyed by then (not to mention confused as to how she got inside in the first place).  I knew nothing about ejecting people.  Finally the woman poofed.  I remember feeling spooked and even looking over my shoulder RL....lol.

Talked to my landlord about this the next day and was introduced to some box thing by the front door that I had seen before but had no idea what it was, thus ignored it.  It was modeled after the keypad for a RL home security system; if touched a blue drop down menu appeared that gave the normal land options for freezing/ejecting someone.

Definitely some rude people walking around!

 

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10 seconds is not too much, even if the intrusion is accidental.

If I am in a rp with someone, naked...you get the idea. That nakedness is for only who I am with, not with some strange visitor.

It doesn't matter to me if they rez or not. you have 10 seconds to vacate said premises.  Plus no one can even cam into said parcel since parcel privacy is now on every region(if you have it enabled from land options. This is off by default). All people had to do was fly before and get within 500m or so, extend draw distance and cam you.


I want privacy for my friends house, for me, and anyone who visits. When people showed up before the orb, they didn't care who you were and went about their business of walking through your home, clicking on everything, trying to turn on the tv, watch a movie, whatever.


You want to explore, fine...no problem with that. Ask first.

It all boils down today to people having very little respect for anyone else but themselves. This god like complex that people have is really irritating. I cannot stand most people and to boot, they are so full of themselves. This alone is why my friend and I have a 10 second warning on his orb.

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I agree too.

Where I live in RL there is a lot of open, semi-wooded land.  Some people fence and/or post "no trespassing" signs, others don't.  People walk over/play on/walk dogs on the land without signs or fences.  I don't think that walking on someone's unfenced land, land without a "no trespassing" sign, is at all the same as walking into somebody's house.

It is so easy to block a parcel in SL to visitors.  Anyone who wants to post a virtual "no trespassing" sign can just close a parcel to the public.  

I don't walk into SL homes, but I wouldn't think twice about exploring an unblocked parcel.

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Bree Giffen wrote:

I was wandering around SL today. It's amazing how many discrete private islands are out there. There are different ways the owners tell you to stay out. There are islands you can't even TP over to. There are islands that let you rez into a corner but the entire island has ban lines. There are also ones that have orbs that boot you out after a time limit.

But then there are the ones that let you in but they never really give you any clue if you are welcome there or not. If I see a store, I assume it's ok but if I see just houses I start to wonder if I'm wandering around private land.I know when I look at About Land and it says 'John and Karen's home'. Thats a bit of a clue. If it says, 'Beach club', then I think something else.

What do you think? What things indicate that a land is for private or public use?

i explore around quite a bit .. mostuv the time i am the only avatar on the sim .. sometimes there are ban lines but usually not .. i tend to stay away from other avatars that might not want me around .. but usually there is no one else around .. so i go where ever i want to & can go .. i go inside houses & look around .. i dont bother anything & couldnt really mess anything up if i wanted to which i dont .. i see no harm in it .. the probability of someone logging in & catching me in their place i figure is very low .. & if it ever happened id be friendly & if they wanted me to leave i would .. where i live once in awhile someone i dont know will show up .. i say 'hi' to them .. sometimes they respond & sometimes they dont .. usually they leave in a hurry .. i dont mind ppl being there .. i dont understand all the paranoia & possessivness some ppl seem to display over avatars in their virtual spaces .. i think ban lines & insecurity orbs are stupid

Jeanne

 

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