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Product Listing Enhancement Update

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No they have my credit card info so they can (and do) charge me for anything they like. Plus I do have enhancements running that I do want to keep.

I am not going to cancel all my enhancements over this -- I THINK some have some value. However, it is not easy to tell, is it, because UNLIKE Xstreet, we cannot see how many actual sales and hits and clicks are generated. 

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

No they have my credit card info so they can (and do) charge me for anything they like.
Plus I do have enhancements running that I do want to keep.

I am not going to cancel all my enhancements over this -- I THINK some have some value. However, it is not easy to tell, is it, because UNLIKE Xstreet, we cannot see how many actual sales and hits and clicks are generated. 

 

YIKES... ok add that as a step to protecting your interests when dealing with a vendor / provisioner like LL whereby their internal financial systems and maturity of development /operations cannot be trusted to adequately protect your interests as a customer.

 

DO NOT GIVE LL YOUR CC INFORMATION THAT ALLOWS THEM TO EXECUTE UN-AUTHORIZED PAYMENTS AGAINST YOU !

Sorry Pamela but that is a dangerous situation you are putting yourself into.  Also, I am shocked that LL is also executing transaction onto your CC without your prior approval to execute.  You have given them "pre-approval" to make any payments against your CC?

EEEK!

 

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

We ARE here to help. We DO want to help. But we have to know you want to make the Marketplace work too. If you don't want it to work, if you'd rather it fail .. just say so and we will work amongst ourselves to provide an alternative that will work properly.

Not to get too far off topic, but at this point giving the marketplace back to us would be the best thing that could happen.

An inconvenience to have independent markets that don't have direct access to accounts, but look at the other side of it ... with SLX you used to have to put your L$ in a "wallet" type of account. If we still went that way, even if billing blew up like this, people would have only lost the money in their wallet accounts and no more, and could have taken out their balance any time they chose.

This would not have happened to this extent.

Also, in all of this Direct Delivery "stuff", one major thing has been ignored, and that's the fact that in-world deliveries needed improving as well.

If they could improve the scripting for in-world deliveries to work like Direct Delivery was "supposed" to work, then everyone benefits, including lots of scripted applications in-world and "magic boxes" would work just fine or keep the direct folder-to-folder system of Direct Delivery.

But since they've pulled back elsewhere like SLB, SLCC, communications ... at this point it would seriously reduce their problems and overhead as well as development time and costs from other teams that work on the edges of Marketplace "stuff".

Anyhow, just a +1 vote on giving the Marketplace back to its users. We did it better and it didn't cost them anything, including a ruined reputation.

Maybe more people would actually start in-world shops again. Land Barons have claimed quite substantial drops in commercial rentals since the Marketplace was taken over.

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Folllow on Pamela to LL making payment transactions against your CC....


If LL has made an unauthorized charge against your CC and/or a charge that you can prove you did not agree with, you can contact the CC company and ask that the transaction be reversed.  The vendor - i.e. LL - has to deal with the reversed charge.

So calculate up all the charges LL has wrongly charged you for these listing enhancements and have the charges reversed.  LL cant stop that.

But then..... turn off that CC access to LL and do not allow LL to do this.  We have seen many times how LL can screw up their systems that can cause invalid transactions to occur or sytems to go wonky.  Ans with you accepting the TOS when you joined LL's SL, you have agreed that if any of their actions causes damage / loss to you... no matter how big... you will not hold them liable for the loss.  And then you have given them your CC and allowed them to make transactions against your CC at will.

scary.

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:

No they have my credit card info so they can (and do) charge me for anything they like.
Plus I do have enhancements running that I do want to keep.

I am not going to cancel all my enhancements over this -- I THINK some have some value. However, it is not easy to tell, is it, because UNLIKE Xstreet, we cannot see how many actual sales and hits and clicks are generated. 

 

YIKES... ok add that as a step to protecting your interests when dealing with a vendor / provisioner like LL whereby their internal financial systems and maturity of development /operations cannot be trusted to adequately protect your interests as a customer.

 

DO NOT GIVE LL YOUR CC INFORMATION THAT ALLOWS THEM TO EXECUTE UN-AUTHORIZED PAYMENTS AGAINST YOU !

Sorry Pamela but that is a dangerous situation you are putting yourself into.  Also, I am shocked that LL is also executing transaction onto your CC without your prior approval to execute.  You have given them "pre-approval" to make any payments against your CC?

EEEK!

 

They have not made any charges against my CC because I always have enough USD to cover tier. Actually since enhancements are paid in Lindens I don't know if they would charge my card or not. What I meant is that LL can and does charge me for whatever they like -- so far, tier -- not that they have ever charged enhancements to my CC.

 

 

 

 

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well then Pam... time to test the theory out.  Do what I initially said.  Liquidate your avi's account to near zero and only put $L into that account when you need to pay someone legit.

This way - if LL tries to steal from you ... they dont have a place to take it.  worst case for them is that they would cancel your respective enhacement.

I know you are one of the few that has a lot of love for enhancements but if you are losing more money from LL taking cash from your account then from what ever increased sales you make from advertising (which you cannot validate)... I think it would be wise to back completely out of enhancements for now until LL cleans up their act.

You can always enter back in when LL proves they have fix their corrupted system.

Just my thought.

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The really sad part is that because LL screwed up the inworld search years ago, and have yet to even understand why it doesn't work, all of our customers were forced to use the MP. So, now, with most people buying from the MP, merchants are constantly being screwed over by the MP's instability. How many of us can even afford to deal with this latest debacle? I know I can't. Considering the sales I'm getting today, which is a Friday, I'm thinking I will have to, at least, consider letting my sim go.

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

well then Pam... time to test the theory out.  Do what I initially said.  Liquidate your avi's account to near zero and only put $L into that account when you need to pay someone legit.

This way - if LL tries to steal from you ... they dont have a place to take it.  worst case for them is that they would cancel your respective enhacement.

I know you are one of the few that has a lot of love for enhancements but if you are losing more money from LL taking cash from your account then from what ever increased sales you make from advertising (which you cannot validate)... I think it would be wise to back completely out of enhancements for now until LL cleans up their act.

You can always enter back in when LL proves they have fix their corrupted system.

Just my thought.

For some of us, transferring money every time we got 1000L would be very impractical.

And the truth is that altho I do not want to run all these enhancements, if I make one extra sale due to the enhancement, it has paid for itself. So I don't know how much I am losing on balance, just that I do not want to have enhancements on some of this older stuff any more.

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This "Gesture" is nice for the few who benefited from it;  but what I still want to know and do not understand is how there has been a JIRA for over 2 years regarding "Stuck" listing enhancements that absolutely no one has addressed to anyone's satisfaction at all.  There are pages and pages of merchants who have had this issue;  I myself ended up with half of my listings in "stuck" format.  Absolutely NO ONE FROM LL has said anything about when this might get fixed!!  Meanwhile I pulled all what was left of my active listing enhancements out.  It simply is not worth the frustration of listing something and a month later having it "stuck" so you can't do anything with it at all,  your item is not in rotation anymore and you are in limbo for ever  I had two enhancements that were stuck since 2010!!  These little band aids for a few folks are nice I guess but does litle for those of us who have been putting up with this stuck listing issue for years with NO help or even concern from LL that I can see.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

 

They have not made any charges against my CC because I always have enough USD to cover tier. Actually since enhancements are paid in Lindens I don't know if they would charge my card or not. What I meant is that LL can and does charge me for whatever they like -- so far, tier -- not that they have ever charged enhancements to my CC.

 

what used to happen is if there wasn't enough lindens in the account the enhancement wouldn't renew.  The only time it should go into negative is for the 30L show in search fee (although for a while inworld classified renewals used to as well). If you know when the renewals are due and can sweep the money out, you might be able to cancel them that way.

As for getting them to fix this, the only suggestion I have is to hit the sl facebook page and twitter and go public.  It will probably have limited effect but they seem to react more to public shaming than anything else.

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Dear Commerce team,

 

At this moment I can not look at my order history on my account page at all, so I have no idea what is being billed currently.

I do see 3 enhancements that are stuck in a limbo with "charging/ can not edit". One of those enhancements has been stuck for 8 months now (not the 2 months you are referring to). I am not planning to pay for an enhancement that I wanted to stop many months ago, but simply can't because your software is borked.

I also want to add that I have reported this issue of not being albe to stop enhancements and not being charged for them either in a Jira over a year ago and it was told it was fixed, with a nice thank you for reporting the issue. (https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/jira-notify/2011-May/277312.html)  I now noticed thus that I again a have stuck enhancement that I thought I had disabled like 8 months ago. I am definitely not paying 8 months enhancement costs for an enhancement that I stopped, but is still active due to software problems.

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how about a nice slu post?  Rod still seems to pop in occasionally and of course slu google-fu should position it nicely in google search returns.  Just ignore troll boy if he happens to drop into the thread.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Hey if Rod wants to talk to me he knows where to find me. 

If you were more important to their bottom line, that might be a possibility but the sad fact is you're not, despite the amount you directly pay them each month.  This isn't a company that works like that as you well know.  Which probably explains their decline.

 

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B00tsy Compton wrote:

At this moment I can not look at my order history on my account page at all, so I have no idea what is being billed currently.

 

Do you get  "So sorry to keep you waiting. We'll be right back!" error message when you try to view your order history? If so, I have the same issue and made a JIRA while back (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4922 ), but it was closed by CommerceTeam Linden and the JIRA system was changed, so you may want to open a JIRA.

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Couldbe Yue wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:

Hey if Rod wants to talk to me he knows where to find me. 

If you were more important to their bottom line, that might be a possibility but the sad fact is you're not, despite the amount you directly pay them each month.  This isn't a company that works like that as you well know.  Which probably explains their decline.

 

Well I was kidding -- I don't imagine Rod wants to talk to me or has any idea who I am. 

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well he should - from what I remember there's not that many people that own more than a few regions and it should be part of his job to know who the main income earners from the marketplace and his largish landowners are.  Also, if he even periodically made forays into here (which again he should be to take the temperature of his customers) he, or his minions, would be aware.

but then, this isn't a normal company.

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Well, if I were CEO, lol.

There is no doubt that I'd know every single merchant that makes a living off of SL. It's not like there are 10's of thousands of us. There are maybe a thousand, if that. I almost guarantee that Torley has either heard of most of us, or has bought from all of us. I know for a fact he owns 3 of my products.

The reason the CEO should know of all these people, is because these people will be the most informed users on the grid. The problem that I see when I goto user group meeting, is that more than half the people there, giving advice or asking questions, aren't all that knowledgable about aspects they aren't involved in. 1 large SL blogger comes to mind, but this person has only a few products that she sells. So, she might be knowledgable about some aspects of SL, but doesn't understand anything about business in SL. Plus, we know the history of SL, and what worked before and what doesn't work now. The merchants in SL are, pretty much, involved in many different aspects of SL than most other residents.

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Well I tell you what, I sure know who my most loyal customers are. And do they get the red carpet treatment? Yes they do. 

Xstreet used to charge the top 75 sellers 4% commission instead of 5% -- just their way of showing appreciation for good loyal customers. That came to a screeching halt with the SLM..

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Well, if I were CEO, lol.


Not that I don't agree or wouldn't be glad to have you as a CEO, but I'm not sure you're understanding LL management style.

You have to overspend, come up with a $50,000 enterprise version of SL for corportate use on a hard drive and disappear taking 1-2/3s of the employees with you in a mass layoff.

Or come up with something inspiring like Fast, Easy and Fun and then 3 months later as your product still declines disappear and do a startup, claiming to know how to change the face of employment and how people work.

Or get an island, a toga and a raft, tell people you love this passionate user base and that you've got a thick skin from prior game company experience and then disappear to go build a better Minecraft.

First you need to learn how to tap dance.

Because gleaning wisdom from people who understand the product and its users is just silly.

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I guess that is why they make the big bucks, huh?

I wonder if Rod even has a small store in SL, or if he has ever tried to make a game on his own in SL? Seeing what Rod has done on his free time, you'd think he'd, at least, try to do those things here. I was expecting him to write long blogs about his own experiments in SL. We are lucky to see him make any comments at all, especially here in the forums. Beside the boat, I wonder if he has wrote any other LSL code. Seems he likes to visit other forums. Has he even looked up if any of those people in the other forums still owns a sim? I doubt it.

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