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Intentional Sim Crashing


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I know the above topic is nothing new to speak of. I generally feel this is getting to the point where issues are being ignored and not prioritized. Obviously this is subjective.

I have been a member for a number of years now. I have enjoyed the diverse environment that Second Life has to offer; when finding the spare time to participate online. However, I am genuinely fed up with the amount of crashing and abuse that a minority of individuals here are handing out. There is one place in particular (no names mentioned) a particular Infohub that has been getting intentionally crashed for more than 3 months now. This is almost occurring on a daily bases. Today, a region is offline again, along with the surrounding regions that connect to this Sim. Real life information is being circulated to the extent people are in fear. This includes IP addresses, Real life addresses (people claiming to be able to obtain) After filing an ample amount of abuse reports (amongst other), with supporting evidence attached. Nothing has been done to resolve this issue.

Now one begs to question the system that is currently employed. Given the fact there has been no resolve. Where do you draw that silver lining?


Regards?

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It might just be a case of containment on Linden Lab's part, you know.  The sim crashers regularly go back to the same places, do the same things, get their jollies, and that's that. It's only if the sim crashers were going to cause massive trouble for the servers that there would be any real need to have a permanent Linden bodyguard present on the sim(s) where sim crashers were most prevalent.

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Rival Destiny wrote:

I've heard many things as well in this regard.

One thing that does sound out there, is anyone being able to get your
rl address
.  I've never divulged this info to LL so am unsure how anyone could obtain such info in sl?

Am I missing something?

they get your IP address .. depending on your service provider that may or may not enable em to pinpoint your rl address but it can provide a place to start looking for info on you & if theyre persistent enuf they can prolly find out who you are & where you live .. theres a whole scandal about ppl doing this to others via SL .. harassing ppl & trying to get them fired from their jobs or kicked outuv school .. but were not allowed to discuss it here .. the mods will delete the posts .. so if you want to read about it or discuss it freely you hav2 do so over @ Second Life Universe

Jeanne

 

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Well, many are net savy & can easily mask their IP.

It's been my experience that many people divulge bits n pieces of their rl via chats etc while online.  It's not too difficult in many cases to find out where someone lives just from seeing what they are talking about online.

I think what goes on in sl is probably not much different than the internet in general and other sites such as topical forums, game sites, etc.

I think the onus is on us as users of the internet to also protect ourselves.  I've seen many instances where people logon to the net, not just sl, & expect all sorts without reading the fine print.  Like anything in life, you need to know where you are going and what you are doing. 

With regards to sl, I treat it as I do any other place online & know that anything I say - well, may be used against me in a court of the universe - so to speak.  In otherwords, if you don't want it to get out there, don't say it, post it, etc.  Be aware.

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Rival Destiny wrote:

Well, many are net savy & can easily mask their IP.

It's been my experience that many people divulge bits n pieces of their rl via chats etc while online.  It's not too difficult in many cases to find out where someone lives just from seeing what they are talking about online.

I think what goes on in sl is probably not much different than the internet in general and other sites such as topical forums, game sites, etc.

I think the onus is on us as users of the internet to also protect ourselves.  I've seen many instances where people logon to the net, not just sl, & expect all sorts without reading the fine print.  Like anything in life, you need to know where you are going and what you are doing. 

With regards to sl, I treat it as I do any other place online & know that anything I say - well, may be used against me in a court of the universe - so to speak.  In otherwords, if you don't want it to get out there, don't say it, post it, etc.  Be aware.

yep RD .. i agree with you .. be careful if you dont want ppl knowing who you are in rl or knowing where you live .. if you dont much care then dont worry about it  ..

good post!

Jeanne

 

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Intentional Sim Crashing is a problem, sometimes it can happen by accident if a newbie is given a sim crasher and rez it into the region, however given the fact that griefers are abusing this constantly using a few methods to crash regions including packet spam multi rez objects with changing shapes, sounds, meshes, prims, GPU crashers into those as well it becomes a problem.

1. IP addresses are not private however with this said, I believe Linden Lab needs a policy against such disclosure of IP addresses. Red Zone & CDS have the ability to do harassment to many users including myself have been flagged by these systems alts disclosed without express consent to users that otherwise should not know who I am, and such.LL should take action against the creators of such systems. In addition the IP address logging and IP addresses being disclosed is being logged by a voice exploit if you are in the welcome area using voice do not do this as this is how IP addresses are logged besides clicking any links, or using media keep media, and voice off at all times. ( while I understand that an IP address is not private users need to be made aware of third party disclosures and a way to prevent abuse with such sytems and information in SL.) For example the TOS states that tracking alts by IP address or disclosure of any information without express consent is not allowed but because these sytems CDS and RZ + others are allowed its being done. They can argue me a different story, but I have ran tests on the owners of these systems 2 accounts and exposed them to the system on purpose  to verify this was right.

2. Remain Anonymous do not give out any information such as User Names, Character Names, or any information for Yahoo,MSN, YouTube, etc. By doing such you risk that any information used on these services can be used to track where you are in Real Life, who you are. Even giving out your cellphone number to an experienced hacker can result in your Real Life location being compromised so don't do it. Remember that SL maybe safe by Linden Lab for example, however you need to understand the security of any other services you are using and risks by giving out information on the internet. Twitter, and Facebook, have been compromised so much recently its not even safe to use either of these. Do not give out things like Steam user name either unless you are comfortable that you don't care who knows goes for any service really.

General Rule, Keep SL in SL, don't give out any information to any third party services, don't give out your RL name, don't use your same SL name anywhere on any blogs you don't want people to know, profiles, or services as these can be tracked by search engines etc.

3. Bans from Second Life are currently useless, I have seen many griefers getting banned just to show up 30 seconds later on a new IP address and spoofed information and they can repeat as much as they like. The only suggestion I can give to LL at the moment is to add verification methods to all newly created accounts allow other users who already have accounts to keep them as is without verify because if they are griefers they will get banned sooner or later anyways but verification on all new accounts would slow down the creation of griefer accounts and a variety of ways could be used to verify an account and keep from making 100's of accounts a day.

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I have huge doubts the Ip addresses can lead someone to find out your RL address. Unless you live in a small community and your provider is also in the same community. i would challenge anyone to contact me via RL..................

fear is what we have to fear the most.

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Redzone and CDS were banned long ago after it was brought to LL's attention that the creator of Redzone was a known felon. It was part of his probation to not associate with other felons but did so anyway.

 

He was jailed for 4 months in August 2011. For the two years after his release, he’s not allowed to work anywhere where computers or computer programming are the primary business, not allowed near any online auction site, and not allowed to participate in Second Life, or any online virtual environment or online social network – at least, not without prior written approval from his assigned Probation Officer.

 

http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/2011/08/01/redzone-creator-goes-to-prison/

 

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Yes they cannot determine where you yourself reside from your IP addy.  What the IP address will give you is who the provider is and where they are located.  So, they may determine that your Internet Provider resides in a certain city in a certain country. 

For the person who does not want to be detected either by IP addy or Mac addy, there are many many ways out there to hide.

Simply going to any internet site will reveal your IP addy to whomever controls that sight so your IP addy is already being collected by 'someone' every time you go somewhere.  So for example, if you go to a forum site to chat, they have your IP addy. 

Having managed a few of these discussion sites in the past, we used to ban by IP addy but always only a temp measure.  The problem then is the same problem now, you will most likely be banning others who have the same IP addy who are well behaved members while the troublemaker most likely will be back in a few minutes using a proxy.  They learn these methods very quickly.

 

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Rival Destiny wrote:

Yes they cannot determine where you yourself reside from your IP addy.  What the IP address will give you is who the provider is and where
they
are located.  So, they may determine that your Internet Provider resides in a certain city in a certain country. 

For the person who does not want to be detected either by IP addy or Mac addy, there are many many ways out there to hide.

Simply going to any internet site will reveal your IP addy to whomever controls that sight so your IP addy is already being collected by 'someone' every time you go somewhere.  So for example, if you go to a forum site to chat, they have your IP addy. 

Having managed a few of these discussion sites in the past, we used to ban by IP addy but always only a temp measure.  The problem then is the same problem now, you will most likely be banning others who have the same IP addy who are well behaved members while the troublemaker most likely will be back in a few minutes using a proxy.  They learn these methods very quickly.

 

Yep.

I always love these IP threads.  So many people make a big deal about IP's with out really understanding how they work.  And some functions in SL do make a persons IP viewable like streaming music, voice calls, media on a prim.

Connecting those IP's to a persons RL still requires additional information.  That's where social enginering comes in.  One of my friends had flowers sent to her at her place of employment by a SL "friend."  She had revealed that she worked for a certain company (over 3,000 employees) with operations in four different cities.  Another time she had revealed she was 'upper management.'  It had never occured to her that a search of the companies Website listed all the management and that she was the only Female Upper Manager there.  The guy just tied it all together.

And even hiding behind proxies is not the end all protection. Consider how Law enforcement tracks people down.  But even after they nail dow the originating IP it still takes them one more step.  They have to contact the ISP to get the information about who that IP belongs too, which also means they have to (or at least are supposed to) get a supoena to obtain.  Simply having the IP is not enough.  Even for them.

Maybe it could be argued that LL could be clearer about the things that can reveal your IP in SL, but then again we could make that argument about hundreds of services that people access daily on the Internet.  But the one thing they ARE CLEAR ABOUT in the TOS and CS is if you don't want something known, don't share it.  It's really that simple.

 

ETA:  I highly recommend against voicing while drinking.  I accidentally let slip my RL name once while doing so.

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I'm going to toss in an example of Social engineering that wouldn't require an IP.

I had a friend who was a teacher in a city, population 750,000 people.  One day she tells me she will not be on SL for a couple of weeks.......moving to take a teaching job in another city, population 500,000. (she told me the names of the cities).

I could have created a data base of all the teachers from the school boards web sites in the two cities, compared names and struck gold.

But my final take on all this still is that you are percentage wise at greater risk of connecting with an a-hole in RL than on the Internet.  It's just the Media capatalizing on the sensationalism of it that gets everyones panties tied in a wad.

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it depends Perrie .. when i was in college the dorm had a static IP that could pinpoint not only the dorm a person was in but even the floor they were on .. i hope theyve changed that by now

now if you rip my IP you get an isp that provides service over several states

Jeanne

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JeanneAnne wrote:

it depends Perrie .. when i was in college the dorm had a static IP that could pinpoint not only the dorm a person was in but even the
floor
they were on .. i hope theyve changed that by now

now if you rip my IP you get an isp that provides service over several states

Jeanne

But where was the information stored that said which IP was connected to which room and what did it take to access that information?  Even if the information was publicly posted, it still required another step for someone to make the association.

Depending on your provider, how close I can nail down your general location can vary.  It's getting to the specific exact location that will always require additional information.

I hope in that situation that  the information wasn't publicly available.

 

Really, I don't understand what your comment is referring too other than to say some situations make it easier than others.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

it depends Perrie .. when i was in college the dorm had a static IP that could pinpoint not only the dorm a person was in but even the
floor
they were on .. i hope theyve changed that by now

now if you rip my IP you get an isp that provides service over several states

Jeanne

But where was the information stored that said which IP was connected to which room and what did it take to access that information?  Even if the information was publicly posted, it still required another step for someone to make the association.

Depending on your provider, how close I can nail down your general location can vary.  It's getting to the specific exact location that will always require additional information.

I hope in that situation that  the information wasn't publicly available.

 

Really, I don't understand what your comment is referring too other than to say some situations make it easier than others.

 

yeah .. you could get the IP & put it in2 ISP Tracer & it would tell which floor of the dorm the person was on .. wouldnt identify the room & there were a lotuv women on each floor but still .. if someone was stalking you that was pretty scary ..

& yeah .. my pt. is that some situations make it much easier for someone to find you from your IP than others

Jeanne

 

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Getting stalked, griefed, harrassed, etc, etc, is never pleasant for any one.  It absolutely 110 percent sucks for any one who it happens too.  I will never say otherwise.

But what gets me is this, as I referenced above, it's the inordinate way people get bent out of shape about it when they say OMG, I met them on SL or on Facebook or whatever, these things ain't safe, stay away from them, be afraid, be very very afraid.   It's how they love to sensationalize that it happenned on the Interent.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Getting stalked, griefed, harrassed, etc, etc, is never pleasant for any one.  It absolutely 110 percent sucks for any one who it happens too.  I will never say otherwise.

But what gets me is this, as I referenced above, it's the inordinate way people get bent out of shape about it when they say OMG, I met them on SL or on Facebook or whatever, these things ain't safe, stay away from them, be afraid, be very very afraid.   It's how they love to sensationalize that it happenned on the Interent.

i agree w/ you Perrie .. iv been threatened be4 ~not in sl but online~ but i never really got too scared by it .. cuz i didnt really figure any1 was goin2 bother to actually travel to my physical location to harm me .. even if they did figure out where i am which i doubted they could

LoL once this Irish guy told me he was goin2 have his homies in a NYC IRA cell come kill me .. but the doof was drunk .. i was actually agreeing w/ him but he took what i was saying wrong & said he was goin2 have the IRA get me :catlol: stuff like that is really more stupid & funny than scary

me & this woman i knew from online really did bust a pedofile be4 tho .. i may have told this already .. dont remember .. but he sent us both pics of him or someone smearing **bleep** on what looked like a naked 10 or 11 yr old girl .. we contacted the FBI & he disappeared off the internet .. creeps like that deserve to be stalked or reported & busted .. but ordinary ppl just pissing someone off online i dont think has a whole lot to be scared of

Jeanne

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Sim crashing is an issue and we need something better than the submit a ticket.. wait 7 or so days we might fix it, then again we might not. They also need to fix the ones abusing sim/region resources and making life impossible for others. They do need to interact with us instead of hiding behind the channels and maybe do something maybe not. I remember when a Linden actually answered your ticket and came to you. Now we never klnow if they even read the tickets.. and lets face it thats the only option we have. If you call in, try live chat, or submit a ticket in the web page help section they chew you out and tell you to file an abuse report in game. We pay to play... Do something about the problem children

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TristanMercer wrote:

Redzone and CDS were banned long ago after it was brought to LL's attention that the creator of Redzone was a known felon. It was part of his probation to not associate with other felons but did so anyway.

 

He was jailed for 4 months in August 2011. For the two years after his release, he’s not allowed to work anywhere where computers or computer programming are the primary business, not allowed near any online auction site, and not allowed to participate in Second Life, or any online virtual environment or online social network – at least, not without prior written approval from his assigned Probation Officer.

 

 

Red Zone might have been banned, and I hope this guy really did get some time for what he did because I have logs of the creator of this system clearly talking smack to me and abusing when he knew that I was under attack by a known griefer group trying to get me banned from SL instead he used his Red Zone system to add my name into a database and grief me I was kicked out of No Salvation, and two of my friends lands/banned by Red Zone because of this piece of crap spyware system. I did send a few IM's about the system to my friends and the owner of a club and never got a response about being banned because of Red Zone, so seeing this guy on probation/jailed for a few months makes me laugh. It might have been other things he did as well but at least Justice got served.

Oh and btw CDS is still in Second Life to my knowledge today like 6 months ago or so I went toa creators store to check out a large build I was buying on the market place and I was teleported home by the CDS system which is still actively logging information without consent of all users including the ability to log IP addresses. Even if the system did not use media to scan viewers which is pretty much useless it is still in my view a violation of the SL community standards as a ban network because while each individual has the right to choose whom they wish on their sims/server they do not have the right to spread accusations, rumors, and by having any information stored in this system or the owners sent information it is telling them I am a Bot. While CDS isn't the only system that uses IP address there are other systems as well like Anti Boot systems that check IP address, and I have no problem with it as long as people are properly made aware of what the system is doing to keep from cheating contests and not abused. CDS + Red Zone were abused, and CDS remains in world today and has done nothing but bring harassment to myself, and other users/ people I know who were mistaken/logged using emerald.

LL has yet to ban these systems from Second Life. ( Yes) I have the leaked CDS script from I assume the person who wrote it and open sourced it as well as an IP Snatcher script for Second Life, technically I know enough using these scripts to actually make my own that supposedly bans CopyBot's, or bot users, but I know how inaccurate these systems are and how much harassment they bring so have no intentions of even doing such. In addition to such I wouldn't feel like charging creators for protection that isn't no where near 100% isn't going to actually protect them because I would feel as if I were scamming them. I feel it is better left in the hands of Linden Lab to ban these no good for nothing botters, and up to them to add protection to prevent the massive number of griefer accounts created by griefers like some verifications very basic things like every MMORPG on the internet has.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/GEMINI-CDS-Ban-Relay-195-1-month-license-UPDATED-APRIL-16/702706 Yes it still here guys your privacy is in fact still being violated if you have media turned on. ( They deny it, but I have requested my information and all information related to my accounts be removed from this system they refused.)

I don't want to slander or defame the creator of this system, however I will say what I think.

To make such an anti bot system you have to know the basics of how a CopyBot even works, or have someone with knowledge of third party viewers, doesn't this make the programmers of Red Zone or CDS just as guilty as I am for knowing about a group of griefers or botters. Also I knew of this guy from when I first started SL and before he ever released his CDS I would shop his market quite a bit and purchased quite a bit from merchants who sold at his market, however after I found the abuse the system was doing I never stepped foot in his market ever again because I feel my privacy will be violated more and it will give an excuse to log information or create problems. Also I couldn't help but notice in this guys profile he has Linden World listed in his Picks destination unaccessable which tells me he has linden friends been to the sim or did some asset editing.

My problem is simple while I have nothing against this creator or anything I am very angry that LL allows this type of stuff and should at least remove these systems from market and say these systems are no longer allowed. It would make things a lot better, and personally if these systems were all removed I would probabily start to gain some more respect back to the creators of such systems over time.

Sim crashing is still a major problem along with the IP disclosure and voice exploits to obtain IP using tools like commview, or voice packet monitoring.

I know that if a private estate crashes you can call LL and get instant support, or file a ticket, however if its a public sim like a welcome area they generally don't respond as fast.

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:


My problem is simple while I have nothing against this creator or anything I am very angry that LL allows this type of stuff and should at least remove these systems from market and say these systems are no longer allowed. It would make things a lot better, and personally if these systems were all removed I would probabily start to gain some more respect back to the creators of such systems over time.


 

1. Do you realize how contradictory this statement is?  If the creators stopped doing it they'd gain back your respect??????

2. Once again you are claiming to see things that no one else is at least as far as this Forum is concerned, seeing.  

3.  If you got on a Ban list, it is more than likely it was for being a general nuisance rather than for using Alts.

4.  May I suggest some alternative things   to keep your self amused with rather than Second Life.

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:


TristanMercer wrote:

Redzone and CDS were banned long ago after it was brought to LL's attention that the creator of Redzone was a known felon. It was part of his probation to not associate with other felons but did so anyway.

 

He was jailed for 4 months in August 2011. For the two years after his release, he’s not allowed to work anywhere where computers or computer programming are the primary business, not allowed near any online auction site, and not allowed to participate in Second Life, or any online virtual environment or online social network – at least, not without prior written approval from his assigned Probation Officer.

 

 

Red Zone might have been banned, and I hope this guy really did get some time for what he did because I have logs of the creator of this system clearly talking smack to me and abusing when he knew that I was under attack by a known griefer group trying to get me banned from SL instead he used his Red Zone system to add my name into a database and grief me I was kicked out of No Salvation, and two of my friends lands/banned by Red Zone because of this piece of crap spyware system. I did send a few IM's about the system to my friends and the owner of a club and never got a response about being banned because of Red Zone, so seeing this guy on probation/jailed for a few months makes me laugh.
It might have been other things he did as well but at least
Justice got served.

Oh and btw CDS is still in Second Life to my knowledge today like 6 months ago or so I went toa creators store to check out a large build I was buying on the market place and I was teleported home by the CDS system which is still actively logging information without consent of all users including the ability to log IP addresses. Even if the system did not use media to scan viewers which is pretty much useless it is still in my view a violation of the SL community standards as a ban network because while each individual has the right to choose whom they wish on their sims/server they do not have the right to spread accusations, rumors, and by having any information stored in this system or the owners sent information it is telling them I am a Bot. While CDS isn't the only system that uses IP address there are other systems as well like Anti Boot systems that check IP address, and I have no problem with it as long as people are properly made aware of what the system is doing to keep from cheating contests and not abused. CDS + Red Zone were abused, and CDS remains in world today and has done nothing but bring harassment to myself, and other users/ people I know who were mistaken/logged using emerald.

LL has yet to ban these systems from Second Life. ( Yes) I have the leaked CDS script from I assume the person who wrote it and open sourced it as well as an IP Snatcher script for Second Life, technically I know enough using these scripts to actually make my own that supposedly bans CopyBot's, or bot users, but I know how inaccurate these systems are and how much harassment they bring so have no intentions of even doing such. In addition to such I wouldn't feel like charging creators for protection that isn't no where near 100% isn't going to actually protect them because I would feel as if I were scamming them.
I feel it is better left in the hands of Linden Lab to ban these no good for nothing botters, and up to them to add protection to prevent the massive number of griefer accounts created by griefers like some verifications very basic things like every MMORPG on the internet has.

 
Yes it still here guys your privacy is in fact still being violated if you have media turned on. ( They deny it, but I have requested my information and all information related to my accounts be removed from this system they refused.)

I don't want to slander or defame the creator of this system, however I will say what I think.

To make such an anti bot system you have to know the basics of how a CopyBot even works, or have someone with knowledge of third party viewers, doesn't this make the programmers of Red Zone or CDS just as guilty as I am for knowing about a group of griefers or botters. Also I knew of this guy from when I first started SL and before he ever released his CDS I would shop his market quite a bit and purchased quite a bit from merchants who sold at his market, however after I found the abuse the system was doing I never stepped foot in his market ever again because I feel my privacy will be violated more and it will give an excuse to log information or create problems. Also I couldn't help but notice in this guys profile he has Linden World listed in his Picks destination unaccessable which tells me he has linden friends been to the sim or did some asset editing.

My problem is simple while I have nothing against this creator or anything I am very angry that LL allows this type of stuff and should at least remove these systems from market and say these systems are no longer allowed. It would make things a lot better, and personally if these systems were all removed I would probabily start to gain some more respect back to the creators of such systems over time.

Sim crashing is still a major problem along with the IP disclosure and voice exploits to obtain IP using tools like commview, or voice packet monitoring.

I know that if a private estate crashes you can call LL and get instant support, or file a ticket, however if its a public sim like a welcome area they generally don't respond as fast.

wow, there is a load of misinformation here but I wanted to just point out one thing.

Mainland sim or Private sim - I think you are confusing the fact that the owner of a mainland sim cannot perform a restart where the owner of a private sim can do their own restart. 

You may be referring to 'sim down' or 'region down' instances where either mainland or private LL must bring it back online.  And as far as this issue goes, it doesn't matter whether it is a mainland sim or a private sim, time to do so varies. 

There is only one preferred status regarding land ownership and the is if you own a certain $ of land, you get express treatment.  So to speak, but this usually pertains to buying and selling, ie the transfer time.  And,some of these preferred customers also own both mainland and estate land.

 

Edited to add:  Also, mainland is not considered 'public' and estate land 'private'.  All land that anyone owns & pays tier to LL in sl is private unless the owner wants to allow the public to access it.

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