JeanneAnne Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 >>Old pirates, yes, they rob I Sold I to the merchant ships ... How long shall they kill our prophets While we stand aside and look? << "subconscious" plagiarism .. just how do you prove or disprove that ?? "My Sweet Lord" was worth millions .. but a pair of virtual shoes ?!? seems to me like the whole thing is a can of worms .. is ridiculous really .. if you make something just give it away .. that way the game stays fun .. obsessing over copybotting & IP & DCMA just turns SL in2 a snakepit of paranoia & resentment & greed know what i ought 2 do? i ought to start making stuff much .. but not too much .. like other ppls stuff .. only better .. & giving it away for free .. just to be onery .. & to mock the stupidity of getting all caught up in the LL toy economy .. LoL .. naww tho .. too much trubble .. & i dont really care all that much anyhow .. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: well .. i dont intend to copy anything .. i just think all the implications are interesting .. for instance .. what if someone said they 1st made shoes so everyone else who makes shoes afterwards are infringing on their IP ?? thatd be ridiculous .. but what if they said someone elses shoes are so much like theirs that its a violation & the other person says thats just a coincidence .. or that they may be similiar but they arent identical? it all comes down to a matter of opinion .. so who decides? a judge & jury ?? are our courts goin2 be all tied up deciding whether someone violated someone elses IP over pixel shoes ?!?! Jeanne A sees an item being sold by B that A thinks is a violation of her (A's) IP. A submits a DMCA takedown notice. B either complies or files a counter-notice, in which case, yes, it will need to be decided by a court. Some people make a living from selling content in SL, remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Innula Zenovka wrote: A sees an item being sold by B that A thinks is a violation of her (A's) IP. A submits a DMCA takedown notice. B either complies or files a counter-notice, in which case, yes, it will need to be decided by a court. Some people make a living from selling content in SL, remember. well .. i think that if i was the judge id tell A & B that i have murderers & bank robbers to deal w/ .. & you guys can sort your pixel shoes out between yourselves .. seems like we pay enuf in taxes as is .. ppl arguing over pixel shoes in court strikes me as being pretty silly Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: A sees an item being sold by B that A thinks is a violation of her (A's) IP. A submits a DMCA takedown notice. B either complies or files a counter-notice, in which case, yes, it will need to be decided by a court. Some people make a living from selling content in SL, remember. well .. i think that if i was the judge id tell A & B that i have murderers & bank robbers to deal w/ .. & you guys can sort your pixel shoes out between yourselves .. Jeanne It would be handled in CIVIL court. not CRIMINAL court. of which the judge wont deal with merderers and rapists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 According to Forbes, the Stiletto Moody brand had, by 2010, sold over US$1,000,000 worth of pixel shoes. OK, that's a successful brand, but, as I said, some people do make their living in SL. If you look at the total sales someone's likely to lose if a successful product is ripped, you're quite frequently talking about tens of thousands of dollars over what would otherwise have been the product's lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: >>Old pirates, yes, they rob I Sold I to the merchant ships ... How long shall they kill our prophets While we stand aside and look? << "subconscious" plagiarism .. just how do you prove or disprove that ?? "My Sweet Lord" was worth millions .. but a pair of virtual shoes ?!? seems to me like the whole thing is a can of worms .. is ridiculous really .. if you make something just give it away .. that way the game stays fun .. obsessing over copybotting & IP & DCMA just turns SL in2 a snakepit of paranoia & resentment & greed know what i ought 2 do? i ought to start making stuff much .. but not too much .. like other ppls stuff .. only better .. & giving it away for free .. just to be onery .. & to mock the stupidity of getting all caught up in the LL toy economy .. LoL .. naww tho .. too much trubble .. & i dont really care all that much anyhow .. Jeanne "My Sweet Lord" was worth millions .. but a pair of virtual shoes ?!?" Do you realize the value's judgement you are making there? Both these things, the song writing and making "pixel shoes" represent the Livelihood of people. Maybe one is assigned a higher dollar value than the other, but they both can be someones Livelihood. And as I said in another post, making a decent pair of pixel shoes may not be as easy as meets the eyes, from concept to finished product. Are we going to judge the worth of someone's life by the dollar value? I decided I wanted fog on my land for Halloween. Decided to do it myself. Figuring out the scripts, the particles, etc, took me over an hour. (yeah, I'm a rookie at this). It's not the greatest fog I have seen, but it's my fog and I'm proud of it. It still took real work and effort on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: JeanneAnne wrote: >>Old pirates, yes, they rob I Sold I to the merchant ships ... How long shall they kill our prophets While we stand aside and look? << "subconscious" plagiarism .. just how do you prove or disprove that ?? "My Sweet Lord" was worth millions .. but a pair of virtual shoes ?!? seems to me like the whole thing is a can of worms .. is ridiculous really .. if you make something just give it away .. that way the game stays fun .. obsessing over copybotting & IP & DCMA just turns SL in2 a snakepit of paranoia & resentment & greed know what i ought 2 do? i ought to start making stuff much .. but not too much .. like other ppls stuff .. only better .. & giving it away for free .. just to be onery .. & to mock the stupidity of getting all caught up in the LL toy economy .. LoL .. naww tho .. too much trubble .. & i dont really care all that much anyhow .. Jeanne "My Sweet Lord" was worth millions .. but a pair of virtual shoes ?!?" Do you realize the value's judgement you are making there? Both these things, the song writing and making "pixel shoes" represent the Livelihood of people. Maybe one is assigned a higher dollar value than the other, but they both can be someones Livelihood. And as I said in another post, making a decent pair of pixel shoes may not be as easy as meets the eyes, from concept to finished product. Are we going to judge the worth of someone's life by the dollar value? I decided I wanted fog on my land for Halloween. Decided to do it myself. Figuring out the scripts, the particles, etc, took me over an hour. (yeah, I'm a rookie at this). It's not the greatest fog I have seen, but it's my fog and I'm proud of it. It still took real work and effort on my part. No! im not going to judge worth by the dollar value .. quite the opposite in fact .. whats so sacrosanct about "livelihood" anyway? every1 makes a "living" 1 way or another .. until they dont .. @ which time they die .. & relative affluence has ltl to do with it .. in fact id argue that affluence gets in the way of living .. in the developed west ennyway .. personally i value fun over making a "living" .. seems like several posters imply that once some1s "living" becomes involved that makes it serious .. i dont want a fun game being serious .. its not my fault that some1 chooses to turn a fun game in2 their "living" .. why should i respect that? seems like none of you respect my resentment of your "living" getting in the way of my fun Dizzi & Nightshade had their 5th sl anniversary party on their sim .. its Norse themed & they had incredible weather efx .. fog rain snow lightning ... very well done .. almost felt cold from it .. i prolly enjoyed their fog as much as you enjoyed your own .. more maybe .. cuz i didnt hav2 go2 the trubble of making it myself .. all i had to do was be invited to the party Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'm kind of tossing this in as an addendum here. There used to be a jeweler in SL, Random Calliope, who made some of the finest jewelry in SL ever. To my knowledge he is no longer around but his blog is still up and he would explain the inspiraton for his works and sometimes share how long it took to make (links follwing). Some of his work he sold, some he gave away. Several times he created exclusive one of a kinds for charity auctions. If my memory serves me, he had one piece that went at a charity auction fot $50,000L. While I don't think he worked on it 24/7, the piece on this page took him over three weeks. You can click on the images for enlarged views of the details. http://randomcalliope.blogspot.com/2007/03/miss-sl-loreal-paris-2007-tiara.html I am fortuneate to own several pieces of his work. Once in a blue moon I will gift someone one of these, but I have to be persuaded they will appreciate what it is I am gifting them. I have also loaned some of my sets to SL girl friends for their SL weddings. They are absolutely stunning to see In World. Point is, when you say "just a pair of pixel shoes," I really wonder if you have any idea what you are talking about. That we can really be talking about someone's hard work and effort. In SL, you are enjoying other peoples hard work and effort. If you don't think the workman is worthy of his hire, well, that is your privelege. But don't be surprised when someone takes offence at you referring to their workmanship as "just a pair of pixel shoes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 1.http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php 2.http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv3 3. http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php 4. http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law 5.http://www.siia.net/ 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement_of_audio-visual_works 7. http://www.mpaa.org/contentprotection/copyright-info Backing up your own content created by you, as long as you are not illegally stealing textures, sounds, animations, sculpts, or any other assets you do not have permission to use is okay. (This generally happens when you use an illegal CopyBot to do it.) but reguardless of legit work anything that can be used to backup even using asset checks is a CopyBot just limited and fixed not to accidently steal for example. CopyBotting another persons work is not okay, and its obvious for example seeing a hair you want right clicking and exporting that hair then importing or even import spoofing. Some users are just basic users have no knowledge in even how a bot works, others know more about the spoofing and will stop at nothign to have your account investigated by LL and if it comes that you are even spoofed LL can tell. If you are not wanting to risk getting banned, or even creators taking legal action then don't do it. As far as reporting it what to do? 1. Well if you see someone wearing copybotted hair right click the hair they are wearing, choose inspect if it is ripped off leave the inspect window open go to Help > Report Abuse > Include screen shot >and submit an abuse report. However it also depends on if the person is a newbie, or if they are actually the botter themselves of what actions will be taken. Sometimes it is nice if you see a member of your own RP group like I have before to tell them to get rid of it help them out and such, however by doing such in any way you risk making yourself a target of the botters aka they will try to get you banned cause you all kinds of drama in SL. Been there seen that and been through that. 2. If its someone in the SandBox leaving out stolen content same thing file an abuse report, now if you are sure that the person is Copybotting it then report them for being a copybotter, if you are sure that they are the ones who created it because its their name as creator and they are wearing it let LL know its stolen. Take Snapshots in both reasons send it to the creators and HD snapshots so they can clearly see their work and file a DMCA if they wish. Otherwise if its a newbie wearing stolen hair and they indeed do not know then LL is likely not to punish them unless they are passing around the content themselves, however you have the option of confronting them and asking them about it trying to help as a concerned citizen of SL so to speak, however by doing such expect someone to say F***** you and we dont care and even post your SL name on blogs and grief you. * fact is they will get banned but see griefers dont care if they get banned they just come back over and over again many accounts.* Some people find reporting theft not to be worthit, others do. Its a matter of what you are doing with your time if you do not wish to RP being a police officer, then you don't have to do it, however there is a difference of doing that and knowingly supporting a CopyBotter by remaining in a RP group for example, or allowing these peopel with concent to be on your lands copying other people with knowledge of them doing such. This is something more common than you think, and I have seen accounts going back to 2005 who know about this and just don't care. One thing I would do however is check your own inventory if you collect freebies, collecting freebies from creators can be good but collecting ripped content is another story. Try to stay away from as much as you can and often check the products for creator tags like <Name Here> things like this often names of stores or intitials of the creators name and if you see content going around full perms not created by them then you likely know its ripped. --Other-- I have different feelings about different types of piracy, and situations, however that doesn't change the fact that it is still illegal, and you do it at your own risk. However with this said Theft of other peoples work like stealing hairs in Second Life that cost $1 you have gotta be kidding me. (Generally I debate Piracy) all the time, and I debate (TOS) in a box notices, and things like (Jail Breaking) ( Movie Copying) (Music Copying) (Games) There are certain situations to where I just dont care about piracy, but it depends on what it is and if in my eyes its legal, for example I know we all break license agreements when we install software or make multiple back'up's of computer software like even driver installation agreements say you can only keep one backup I know many people and gamers have broken this. With this said YouTube, and Your Search Engines support piracy because they give you the instructions on how to crack software just by searching, services like VPN's and VPS to mask your identity, and things like not giving us the ability to report videos for harassment, containing spyware links, virusus, or Keygens on YouTube for example. While in my eyes piracy is not always bad depending on why you are doing it or cracking codes it is still illegal in many ways. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJV0xhVKINQ But I still remember this guy ^^. There are hundreds of different circumstances in which you might break a copyright, even if you were 8 years old and recording your favorite song from a radio. Sometimes it is okay in my view it is okay to share, but when it is done just to bring harm to many creators in a service like Second Life that is not okay. I am talking about like very old NES games, loosing your serial code on a very old game like SpellForce and deciding to crack it. These are just a few examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: "My Sweet Lord" was worth millions .. but a pair of virtual shoes ?!?" You are the one who emphasized the dollar values..........those punctuation marks were yours, not mine. ETA, like Gothy above, sorry, but you have tipped your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 those are some very nice pieces of work Perrie .. & dont get me wrong .. if someone has fun making stuff .. in rl or sl .. more power to em .. i dont resent their patience or skill or artistry .. what i dont like is the mercenary aspect of making things for profit & getting so bent over perceived infringements .. real or imagined .. that they suck the fun outuv sl my sister has a friend who rps being a vampire & my sis paid i dont remember how many thousands of L$ for some silly amulet of power that vampires like .. she knew it was silly but did it anyway as a token of friendship .. she likes giving things away .. she is the opposite of the greedy merchants who dominate this forum .. she also makes shoes btw .. she gave me a pair that i can make any color i want to match whatever outfit im wearing .. she sells her shoes on MP but i bet shed just give them to anyone who asked .. she often gives away shoes & elegant gowns & tuxedos to anyone who attends her DJing gigs the guy who gave me my biggest sailboat .. i have 3 now .. makes boats in both rl & in sl .. his creations are fast & sleek & elegant & he gets buku euros & L$ for them .. yet he just gave me 1uv his nicest boats* just cuz i was friendly & danced with him .. this kinduv generosity is what SL should be about .. not how much L$ you can get for stuff & how paranoid you can be that some1 mite be copybotting your stuff im sorry that i said that My Sweet Lord was worth more in dollar terms than some silly pixel shoes are .. it goes w/out saying that MSL is priceless .. its a work of prophetic genius that belongs to us all & for there to have been a lawsuit over it is obscene .. Jeanne * or it would be nice .. if the dam thing would cross sim boundaries !! :catfrustrated: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yeah, it's great that people are generous with their own work, like the guy who gave you the boat, but it's not so great when people either help themselves to other people's work or start being generous at someone else's expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: im sorry that i said that My Sweet Lord was worth more in dollar terms than some silly pixel shoes are .. it goes w/out saying that MSL is priceless .. its a work of prophetic genius that belongs to us all & for there to have been a lawsuit over it is obscene .. What do you mean "belongs to us all?" It belonged to George. He was just gracious enough to share it with us and now get the privilege of enjoying it. But you want to know a little secret? I paid for my copy of "All Things Must Pass" when it came out. I didn't just walk into the record store and take it. I paid for it. Happily and willingly. I didn't begrudge George the cost of the Album. I agree with you the lawsuit sucked. But can you think how much it might have sucked for the plaintiffs? What was wrong with them wanting compensation IF they had been plagiarized? Do you think George wasn't happily making money on the song and album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: JeanneAnne wrote: im sorry that i said that My Sweet Lord was worth more in dollar terms than some silly pixel shoes are .. it goes w/out saying that MSL is priceless .. its a work of prophetic genius that belongs to us all & for there to have been a lawsuit over it is obscene .. What do you mean "belongs to us all?" It belonged to George. i disagree .. it was given to us all thru George .. like the sun & the air & the ocean it belongs to us all .. all great works of inspired genius do .. i dont begrudge George himself receiving some compensation for his work .. just so he could be free from material concerns so the spirit could continue to flow thru him undistracted .. but the greedy record companies can bite me .. i have no qualms whatsoever about getting over on those greedy parasitic bastards :catlol: LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: why is it wrong to copy something you paid for? whats wrong with giving stuff you bought away? Because you agreed that you were not buying ownership of an item just he right to use it under the terms that the creator sets. Section 7.2 of the TOS says: "You acknowledge that when you receive a User Content License you receive only licensing and use rights: You therefore do not acquire ownership of any copies of the Content, or transfer of any copyright or other Intellectual Property Rights in the Content. You acknowledge that with respect to the use of the words "Buy" and "Sell" as used in this Agreement and throughout the Service in the context of User Content: (a) the term "Sell" means "to grant a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," (b) the term "Buy" or "Purchase" means "to receive a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," and © the terms "Buyer," "Seller," "Sale" and "Purchaser" and similar terms have corresponding meanings to their root terms. This includes User Content that may be Bought or Sold on the Second Life Marketplace web site." If you do not agree with this than you should not be in SL. You can't agree to only some parts fo the TOS and not others. JeanneAnne wrote: No! im not going to judge worth by the dollar value .. quite the opposite in fact .. whats so sacrosanct about "livelihood" anyway? every1 makes a "living" 1 way or another .. until they dont .. @ which time they die .. & relative affluence has ltl to do with it .. in fact id argue that affluence gets in the way of living .. in the developed west ennyway .. personally i value fun over making a "living" .. seems like several posters imply that once some1s "living" becomes involved that makes it serious .. i dont want a fun game being serious .. its not my fault that some1 chooses to turn a fun game in2 their "living" .. why should i respect that? seems like none of you respect my resentment of your "living" getting in the way of my fun A livelihood is the way people feed and clothe themselves and provide a roof over the head of their family. For many people in SL this may be the ONLY way they can do this due to a disability. Why would anyone respect your need to have 'fun' over the need of a human being to provide for the basic needs of themselves and their family? Why is your fun more important than meeting basic human needs? By your own standards, its OK if I do something to deprive you of your income or support in RL, even if that means you go hungry or lose your home, as long as I have fun. What a value system you have! /me shakes head in disgust and walks away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: /me shakes head in disgust and walks away promise? good riddance !! :catlol: Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amie Kaestner Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What does it matter anymore? It's not like the Lindens are around to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avi Arrow Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 My apologies in advance if someone has already posted this. In the viewer go to: Help > Report Abuse Category: Intellectual property infringement > CopyBot or Permissions Exploit All seems clear now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennylex Luckless Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 I did only want to know where in the TOS I could read where I was told was correct or not and to get an short and simple translation of segment that may be good to read. I know that the subject of this post was badly selected, but I did so for I did want attention to get an faster answer, but also to not leak to much information about what made me ask this question. A did also ask for the question is complex and I did think I had to read before I could say if it is would be right, wrong or what we can or not can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennylex Luckless Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Yes I know Linden not can stop coppybotting as little as the Police can stop all crimes commited, but even the police not can stop all crimes so do I not think, "What does it matter anymore" when I see a crieme, I do call the police for it is the right thing to do. I may not AR all suspected copybotters, but I can tell folks that I think it is wrong, point to towards where it say so, just for I think it is the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Kennylex Luckless wrote: Yes I know Linden not can stop coppybotting as little as the Police can stop all crimes commited, but even the police not can stop all crimes so do I not think, "What does it matter anymore" when I see a crieme, I do call the police for it is the right thing to do. I may not AR all suspected copybotters, but I can tell folks that I think it is wrong, point to towards where it say so, just for I think it is the right thing to do. Yes I agree Linden Lab can't stop all CopyBotting, howeve they really could do something more about it to protect the merchants. I have reported so many botters and meanwhile three of them I currently know in Second Life constantly slip under the radar and are not banned by Linden Lab. Meanwhile I have to know everyday that goes by that this one person or two people are sitting on this RP sim because the owner works with them and that they are copying my friends creations constantly and that makes me angry. LL is not the police, I understand the DMCA process that I can't file for other merchants unless I am authroized to do such for example, But LL knows how CopyBotting works they could add Verification like Telephone, Credit Card, Require RL Information on signup, or something. All prior created accounts to that day including mine would not require verification just all new accounts this means that sooner or later botters/griefers get banned its going to be tuffer for them to make new accounts you see. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWoDlHVpYzI <<< They dont even require email verification. As for Abuse Reporting botters, every botter I have seen know exactly what they are doing they talk about it over the mic, and know the risk of being banned. They are not some newbie or some 15 year old given a bot and told its okay to copy things they absolutely do know it is wrong. Prim Spoofing is a problem now because any merchant who has ever given away anything full perms is at risk of having their reps tarnished in SL. Recently a merchant I know of from one of my groups had other items ripped off from LandScaping merchants with their name as the creator. I know that this person didn't do it because he is the one who gave us word about it and he sells items full perms. But now the people who have no idea what a prim spoofer is or rezzing multiple prims to clone someones object are going to think he is a botter. Then there are those who on purposely give out items just so they can claim they have been prim spoofed and use their own prim to rip content and do it very wisely to avoid LL's detection of botting even use of alts with different spoofed information like logging in from their grandmothers house with a diffrent IP. I know some people like this who are in SL and shouldn't be but why LL wont respond is beyond me. A friends entire store was ripped off years ago by this person who claimed they were spoofed yet they weren't and were not banned they gave me the items themself. (For the Record I no longer have them disposed of it like a year ago or so never used.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solstyse Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The problem with any gray software or technique is that it can be used for both white hat and black hat purposes. Copybotting, as this is about.... Owners should have some method of locally backing up their own work. They made it, after all. Maybe Mesh will change this. With the old prim/texture method, which I admittedly am not good at, what I could save is the template and texture, both in 2d. For me, since I am not a merchant, this is something I can live with. Because I'm not looking to open up new markets at places like inworldz or anything. If I can't use SL anymore, then I don't need the 3d version. If I WAS a merchant, I guarantee I'd be on multiple grids. Expansion is key. And I certainly would want my own copy of anythig I create. So0meone here can probably tell a better way than a copybot. but is it as well known? From what I read about copybot viewers, they offer more in the way of anonymity than the average TPV. For me, not having any payment or rl info on file is enough security. But for a privacy fanatic, I can certainly see the draw to using a viewer that hides it's user. My personal take on it is that I trust LL not to collect data on me in a malicious manner, and I trust them more than anyone to screen tpv's to ensure they are not doing so either. In light of that, I use only tpv's that recieve LL's endorsement. Copybot viewers never will. In terms of Photoshop brushes/layers/templates... I read the eula's very closely, both before and after purchase. Any such products I buy must allow either copy or transfer permissions. If they include both, cool. But I so far make things only for myself. If I DO begin to sell, which I'm considering, then these agreements are actually things I would consider to be common sense not only for the creaotr of the brushes, but also for myself. If I make something both copy and transfer, then why would anyone pay? Why wouldn't they sell it for themselves? The DCMA procedures may be clear to merchants. But they aren't to everyone. Personally, I think sl defines intellectual property better than most of the web. They came up with three criteria for products (copy/transfer/modify) and let the creator decide which of those are allowed. Personally, I feel that whoever too the time to create anything here is the person who should be in complete control of those permissioins. With the addition, only for that person or group, if it's a groub build, of "local backup." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaaLaaKatie Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Hi, I know this is a few years ago. But I have been researching. Honestly, in certain things, I would think, copybotting is ok. And though I have said "certain things," I should clarify on this 1 and obvious thing. I DO NOT agree with the ripping/stealing part. I'm talking about already paid for things you have in your inventory. If you are just using things for personal use and, again, have paid for it. You have over 100k of items in your inventory. You've been on SL for 10 years.... How do you ask permission from everyone? Especially if some are no longer in SL anymore? These are all, if you have to make a new avatar. Not everything you buy is transferrable. If they're 10l-50l some won't mind paying for that again. But it does add up. And, what if you have a 30,000l boat or something in the thousands? Is it fair to have to buy again just because you have a new avatar? Why you have it is a valid question to of course. But, I mean, throughout the years I have had numorous avatars due to being harassed and stalkers. So in those situations, I would think it would be ok to get all the things you paid for, back. It's sad that I had to spend double my money on things I had for years. But, if I knew about copybotting, tbh, I may have used it. Or had to really think and pray about it. I lost so much stuff due to, the businesses were no longer around. I just had to count it all as a loss. Once you find a hair or dress or house you absolutely love, you're gonna wanna keep using it. I've spend probably over thousands of usd money due to that. As much as I don't think it's right for a business to get ripped off, I don't think it's fair for the buyer to have to get ripped off either. And having to pay over and over again. It just isn't fair. And I know, it's hard to know if the person is being honest or not. But, in my case, the businesses that are still in SL, I have been in contact with my favorite ones. So they know it's me. And those businesses have accomidated me. But how do you draw a line between it's just personal to its oooh I'm gonna make some money off of these people on another grid? I mean, if it's for personal use and you have paid for it. I would think it would be ok. IDK maybe that's just me. Also, on opensim, there are a few scripts to clone your inventory and avatar. Who's to say there's not a script like that in SL? I'm not trying to get someone to justify copybotting. I guess I'm just asking opinions too. I'm not sure what I would do if I still have my computer I had 10 years ago. I had no icloud or cdrom. No backup sites. So how would I be able to back up my things I made? I think in that senerio, copybotting would be in good use. I would hate to use those viewers and get in trouble for stealing my own stuff. lol I guess in that case, contacting LL would be ideal. Anyways, what's your opinion? Would you use a copybot viewer for personal use? For your items? Or what? *PS.* I made the font smaller.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda Huntress Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 LaaLaaKatie wrote: Anyways, what's your opinion? TL;DR and the font's a bit much as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vania Chaplin Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I reached this point: "Is it fair to have to buy again just because you have a new avatar? Why you have it is a valid question to of course." I am using mostly an alt, Lucy, Vania is almost forgotten inworld, because I concentrated sailing in Lucy and this is my principal activity in SL today. Yes I had to buy again some things that I already had in Vania's inventory and wanted in Lucy's too, but this was my choice. I could never made Lucy's account, and as Vania start to sail, it would be cheaper, but this is not the creator's problem, is mine. I choose to use another account for this, it was my choice to sail much, above other things I used to do as Vania. I am not allowed to illegally copy Vania's things that I want to use as Lucy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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