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Toysoldier Thor

Increase in Instant SIM LAG & Crashes During Larger Events - Network Source?

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Hi Sylvie,

Its good to see someone else from the SL grid come out and mention their sim and related large events on the sim is experiencing SML (Sudden Massive Lag) syndrome.  I have talked to a lot of people inworld and this problem is noticable and it has happened around the time just after the Pathfinder code was pushed into the sims. 

Unfortunately a lot of sim / event owners are very scared & reluctant to post their experiences here on this thread/forum for fear that if it is not a bug but a new form of griefing that their sim might be vunerable and also targetted more than it already is.  Others are reluctant to publically mention it because they feel that it it shows weakness of their venue and it might scare away visitors (this is a lame argument in my opinion since SL residents have become more than used to the fact that the SL Grid is a major lag fest most of the time at any reasonable sized venue events and would not be scared off by this).

So its good to see someone come forward other than just me about the problem as LL likely thinks this is just the ramblings of one person.

As for your theory that it could be caused because of the load the sim experiences when a large number of avatars are arriving into the sim at the same time - and even possibly at the same coordinately on the sime.....  that is a great theory.  Many of the SML events I have experienced often happens near / at / around the early portion of the event.  This is when the sim experiences a major shift of avatar arrivals / departures.  I have often seen like 5 - 10 avatars land on each other within the minute.

But I have seen the SML hit in the middle of the event when the avatar arrivals have stopped.  This could be because the sim went sick earlier and as the event continues, the symptoms continue to degrade until the sim crashes / goes stupid.

I have also noticed that some sims seem to be very resistant to the MSL and even the rash of instant crashes that I have been noticing in the past couple weeks.

Problem is that this thread has been opened and talked about for months.  I have also pointed this problem out to the Lindens directly when I was able to attend the Friday weekly user group meetings (before they cancelled the meeting).  Yet there has been no visible actions being taken by LL on this problem.  They are all single-minded focused on pushing out new features onto the grid and fixing old bugs and creating instability on the grid is not a priority for them.


As such, it just seems this is the NEW LIFE IN SL we must all need to live with - those that stay around.  LL staff are never inworld to experience these SML and crashes.  They are not directly impacted at the disruption and financial loss from hosting a major event only to have the sim crash because of this instability.  That is why they have also done nothing to fix the Notice Attachment bug.

But thanks for being brave enough to come forward with another example.

 

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I think the Lindens thought this bug may have been fixed, so I brought it up to Simon again at the Server user group meeting yesterday. Some folks chimed in about having experienced much the same symptoms, specifically involving Network spikes.

One resident (I guess I shouldn't name him here, but he's very well-informed) mentioned that he has a renter whose sim runs beautifully -- until that renter himself shows up, and then it lags with network delays, which they think may be due to low bandwidth of the renter's internet connection. This suggests that maybe the sim (erroneously) blocks on some network operation.

This is all pretty much speculation at this point, but Simon did say that BUG-355 needs another look, so that's something.

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Well Its good to have someone in this thread that has the ability to attend the weekly usergroup meetings. 

I really miss these meetings as it was a very effective way to bring up grid/viewer issues on the grid to LL that LL is not aware or doesnt comprehend the impact/magnitude of the issue.  These meetings have also become vastly more important ever since Rodvik decided to gag the LL Jira's.  There is no other effective way to report and track problems.  I think these meetings are important enough that LL should at least have ONE of these weekly meetings at a time outside of the North American business hours window so that more of us can attend.

Since we cannot view or provide feedback to "BUG-355", I was not aware that LL staff somehow believed this problem had gone away.  If they believe they had fixed it, then the question to ask LL is:  "What patch did you apply to the sims that would have fixed it and when was this patch applied?".

The other related questions I would have are:

 

  1. Why do some sims with frequent (i.e. several times a week) large scheduled events event not seem to encounter the instant MSL problem yet other sims do?
  2. Why does it seem to happen to moreso at sims where the event incur a large quick growth of avatar traffic while other sims that have long sustained avatar loads do not seem to experience this problem (i.e. schedule live singer 1 hour events vs popular 7x24 DJ music clubs).
  3. It seems to happen on mainland sims quite easily since these poor old sims cannot handle more than 40 avatars but the sim my own store is on experienced a MSL and went into dumb dead mode 2 weekends ago whereby LL support was called into to reset the sim.  There were only about 15 avatars on the sim at the time of the an uncommon event on the sim (a hunt) where a lot of avatars arrived in a short timeframe).
  4. Has the secret LL patch to this problem manifested the problem into instant sim crashes now as well? In the past couple weeks the instant "Boot avatars off" crashes at these events have spiked - several this past weekend.

The symptoms seems be be triggered during or as a result of a major fluctuation of avatar arrivals.  There was a plausible theory that many it is a bug when too many avatars arrive on a sim too quickly and/or on the same TP location.  But its just a theory.


Thanks again Qie for being our voice.

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I was seeing this Sudden Massive Sim Lag until the server rollout 13.03.04.271238 which added the Object rez performance project and a memory leak fix.  I sometimes still  see sim lag that does not seem to replicate the Sudden Massive Sim Lag noted above in this thread.

It is as if the server rubberbanding we were seeing has been reduced or eliminated by the use of a separate thread for rezzing linked objects.

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Thank you for posting this thread, Toy.  


I just got around to looking on the forums to see if others were having the same problems I've seen at a popular blues venue. 

I first noticed it about the time you brought it up but last December that veune was one of a few that were constantly griefed with sim crashers and video card exploits.    It's since been closed to anyone but members to get a handle on it. 


Now on to your thread... I've seen the same thing many times and quite a few when djing.  I never experience the lag however. . I just crash with almost everyone else.   Some nights as many as 4 or 5 times some nights only a couple and again the sim never crashes.   For me the lag issue might be because I've built a high end machine and have great bandwidth.  I dunno. 

There is not even any rhyme or reason that I've ever figured out.   One night there might be 35 people there and it happens while this venue a  week ago had a huge anniversay party with over 80 people there and not one crash although those with older computers experienced a lot of lag. 


If I remember I'll try and get a screenshot of the satastics but again I never have any warning except that I do see local go quiet and that's rare at my shows there.

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Thanks Bard....

Over the past couple months many of the popular live music venues sims where there are 50 plus... are crashing often.  I was at a real popular one that it crashed twice in one 1hour show.  LL even put the sim on another server and although the lag seemed to become less bearable... its still crashing a lot.  So are many other.

I don't know if its the newer sim code, or wide spread griefing, or what but its terrible.  But LL Staff just has no clue how bad things are inworld.

I am sure they think all is so stable.  Many of us are dreading the July 9th SSB release as its likely only going to cause yet more sim instability.  You cant even properly run live events without these frequent crashes.

I have just given up posting about it as LL really is too focused on putting out new code and fixing lil things instead of getting their butts inworld and experiencing these crashes and finding out why these larger popular venues are crashing all the time.

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