BIG DAY TODAY, passenger number 200,000 riding my vehicles.

[Knowl Paine]

Correct, that will prove the Roads do not function as advertised. An LL problem.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

Running a bunch of vehicles on the LInden roads won't do anything to solve the sim handoff issue.

---

Except that's objectively wrong. In fact, I wish LL's QA group did much more of the same sort of thing on a test grid before each release and collected enough data to be sure each new release improves--or at least doesn't impair--sim crossing performance.

To the immediate point, there's a worrisome little cluster of sim-crossing bugs; the underlying problem was first reported by AnnMarie, encountered by her vehicles; it later broke the GSLR; much later, I stumbled upon it (and embarrassingly enough, filed a duplicate bug report). You'll encounter the weak version of it if you travel Mainland roads and rails enough: you'll get access denied warnings for parcels on the other side of the sim you're leaving, instead of from the parcels you enter in the new sim. That little warning, however, is the tip of the iceberg in wasted processing and messaging that slows sim-crossings and makes them less reliable.

To track down the root cause of intermittent bugs, there's just nothing like having volumes of data. If LL won't spend the resources to do that itself, residents who collect it for them are doing us all a service.

(Of course, for any actual improvement to take place, the Lindens need to spend development effort on understanding and fixing the bugs we uncover. That proposition is, uh, selectively true.)

[AnnMarie Otoole]

Error reporting is a positive side effect, not requested by the Lindens but frequently appreciated.  Every vehicle is tracked at every sim crossing with over 10 million reports coming in per month (got into trouble with my data base host).  Sim crossing failures are all logged into a file and listed in decreasing order of frequency so a bad sim shows up quite rapidly. 

I found a new bug recently - there was a cap of 1024 trouble tickets and no way to delete history so until it was fixed I had to switch to an alt for reporting.  None of the reports are trivial and I frequently get thanks from the Lindens for the feedback.  They do not have the time and man power to test that extensively so they do rely on resident feedback.

A roll-out about a month ago was halted and reveresed due to problems showing up with my vehicles.  I'm good friends with the owner of the "other" vehicle system and we compare notes when problems arise.  With over 10 million sim crossings per month I can report that vehicle losses on sim crossings (except for reportable sim problems and during roll-outs) are virtually zero.  Average vehicle life is around 7 hours at this time with record runs just under a week.  The problems of disconnected passengers is  not nearly so good however re-connecting displaced passengers seems to have improved.  Just remain seated with seat belts on and wait for it.

The changes for (or due to) pathfinding have been a real problem.  It seems like an incredible quantum leap in development effort for a feature that has negligible practical use.  Bots should love it but I can't use it.   My only hope is that the object  mapping feature is a pre-cursor to new and better approaches to reducing server processing load.

[Dillon Levenque]

 

Okay, so AnnMarie's vehicles were responsible for her finding a sim-crossing bug. It must be a relatively obscure bug since you point out that I need to do a whole lot of crossings do be likely to have seen it (haven't, as of yet) and in fact you yourself discovered it on your own, quite independent of AnnMarie's vehicles.

I will concede that the vehicles could be a source of information for LL regarding sim crossings, thus the comment of mine you quoted is at worst incorrect, at best debatable. Either way, the idea that AnnMarie's vehicles are doing something to HELP us here in Second Life is baloney. Some people like them, some people don't. More the latter than the former, I believe.

[Timothy McGregor]

I didn't get the sense that Qie was necessarily defending the vehicles in a broad sense, just responding to the suggestion that they're not helpful in identifying bugs. He correctly pointed out that they are, as any such thing would be that utilizes physics and crosses sims as frequently as these vehicles do. 

I do not care for them or appreciate them, personally. But I do have to give her credit for keeping meticulous track of their behavior, and the issues they encounter with physics and sim crossings. That data cannot be anything but useful to Linden Lab. 

[Poenald Palen]

I see that some people feel as if they should be banned. Which in turn means the only way to do this is to MAKE them a hasstle! Of course, she sells the scirpts and you can all buy them. This is marketing genius, but of course most who wish them gone do not wish to endure the trouble they cause for a time period...which makes this a safer marketing genius. I Beleive the issues of why they didn't sell more or make more has to do with not many people using the roads in the mainland and there being no reason to travel them but for the sake of driving. I have to admit, I many times wish to drive in a reasistic looking place and have used other software. SL has the distance, the oddities of stores and even peoples art to see....it doesn't work well enough!

I am not aware of a game or world in which...ok, I DO know of one that is street racing oriented and bet more are to come, but either way....SL has a unique driving experience to offer if/when it finds a method to make a virtual world with sims NOT having sim crossings. Right now, we are told this will NOT happen. But, if all goes well and we have faster net and computers continue thier hardware increases, which is something that is not entirely covered by simple CPU speed as we know see 64bits and multiple CPU cores jumping in to make things quicker....but in decades from now it will all be working smoothly and with virutal reality headsets. BUT, having said that there are worlds starting right now for driving! So, this is a bit odd to ponder because SL has a uniqu element in that the mainland offers a place to have tonnes of roadside and easy to get to places all for those who want to wander around on a vehicle of some kind and enjoy the sort of neverending road trip sort of thing. Lots of bikers here, because you end up with bikers finding a place where you can ander around and hang out and look at, talk about bikes. Same for club goers and the music and outfits, same for ballroom dance fans and so on. It is far cheaper, far easier than organizing and doing this in RL. In fact, many things are so much easier than SL that I think this was why the fast part of fast easy fun was there. SL takes a bit of time, but nothing compared to the costs and time it takes to travel with gas prices the way they are. Nothing close to the cost of gettiing robbed by bad peeople you come across, or the costs of injury and so on or even drunk driving. So, people sit and get tipsey while they chat and listen to some jazz and dance or turn the lights off and watch the rave party on thier screen and maybe even get up and dance with the computer speakers maxed out.....it costs less, you can still have fun and it is so much quicker and easy to log off and crash before going to work tommorrow...no ex at the favorite hangout, no "where is the money you owe me" from the soon to be ex friend or whatever other problem is out there....no, I don't owe money lol....but yeah, maybe I do and forgot! But, yeah......it IS faster, easier and sort of fun enough...better than reading a forum post or answering grandmas wierd IM's now and then.....not that ALL the time SL is a better and RL stuff can be fun to, even grandma can be a riot to listen to and show freinds the funny things she buys or makes for you..I mean, sometimes for some people.

Some like to drive around and check out weird stores, roadside oddities and art. Sometimes even see someones weird ride or rolling party/fight/deadlyiinteractions or whatever.

Other uses for vehicle scripts, and maybe some of the newer tools for NPC come to mind as something people may like as well. Cars simply plow through zombies, so no biggie there. But, there are no roaming zombies....is this a sign SL is dying? NO zombie pools rezzing new foes to wonder around and find thier pray? I mean, you could even script them to avoid Ms Annes vehicles! No one? Wow, SL may be dying! lol. If anyone hears the  message that she gets thousands of people looking at her profile and inundating it with messages then you can see that many also could see someones NPC sales company. I should shut up and start getting a vehicle made up to map out waypoints and be done with this rambling and just get into the violent monster breading business. Of course, they can't attack...but if you click it after it follows you AND you aggree to the pop down message AFTER you willingly (hopefully) clicked it....well, you agree to be attacked and hopefully can run fast or be quick to draw..right? But, alas, I have to many other things to worry about.....but still. A year and no creepy mythical creatures laying by the wayside or even in a dark cave peering out with glowing eyes ony to speak up and ask who dares disturb it? Zombies....none roaming the roads confusedly getting run over by annes cars?  Oh well. I bet if this happened, and all the lag, blood rezzing and noise happened...well, we may see and end to it because it surely would end up adding up to some lag and would be simply seen as doing business on public linden land and the same rules for sandboxes would be in place...no sales, no advertising or whatever. But, ey...it would be crazy while it lasted and would not be too laggy to be outright greiffing and some n00bs lost wondering the mainland would find somethiing to do! Heck, why not even make characters to help or guide the wondering adventurous ones who didn't need to stinkin' help lol.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

ya i remember these vehicles on the mainland

Atoll trail..

and being knocked  out of the way into other peoples land over a hill while on my horse..on a trail for riding.. Oo

 

by the time i reach that tan walk way up there another was coming down the trail..

 

look out for teh box truck horse!! \o/

hehehe

 

a trail to relax  while riding turned into having to keep my mind on the lookout  or be knocked out of the way..so i found some rail way tracks instead..this used to be such a relaxing ride until someone opened it up as a highway..

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

*Thread hochhol*

Was out walking the trail, that starts in the 'Clinker'-Sim on the north-western End of Corsica and of course, three of these stinking, smoking abominations came down the trail. And the big problem: These vehicles are not phantom. In other words, you get mangled down. With predictable results:

http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Bones.jpg

Had to nail my bones back together, after being hit by one of these abominations. I can remember, that AnneMarie OToole promised in another thread, that these things are phantom. they are not as evidenced here:

http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_390.png

http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_394.png

In both cases, both cars were fighting for the right of way.

And yesterday, a bunch of these vehicles turned up on the SLRR as well, there was a promise, that this would not longer happen. Plus today I have seen 6 of these vehicles stuck on the roadside. Two were on a tree, 4 were further down the road near a marina stacked neatly upon each other. Reminded me of a junkyard. :smileymad:

And that's why I hate these abominations with a passion. Oh, and I really like the Yavascript tourpods. Not only handle these the sim crossings much much better, they get very rarely stuck. And if that happens, they selfdestruct in 4 minutes or less. Plus, these tourpods don't deviate from the road and are fully phantom, that means, they pass through you without causing any damage. 

A while ago, I stood at the Gyaltsen/Dharmaraksa-border, from one side a Yavascript-tourpod came through, crossed the border, jumped 2 meters back and continued happily on its way. Straight in one line and without any fuss. a few minutes later, one of AnneMarie's abominations came from the other side, smoking and stinking, really fouling up the place, plus with incoherent engine noises. That thing was all over the place, crashing into the FFrendz-advert on the roadside, it took almost 5 minutes, until this thing managed to cross the sim border. It hit a bunch of trees and buildings further down the road as well.

It's time, that Mrs. Otoole gets the programming sorted out. And these things off the SLRR and trailpaths. They do NOT belong there.

 Addendum: The two vehicles in the tree: http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_406.png
Found here: Huron (237,40,55)

The Stack of four: http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_405.png  (The fourth is the little one down by the water)
Found here: Chapel Stile (215,64,22)  The way down here is NOT a road, it ends at the Huron / Kemp Howe-border.

Ok, Mrs. Otoole, when do you start to clean up? How long do the residents have to endure this constant fly tipping?

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

And of course, the junk is still there. This one is there for months: http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_408.png
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/McFee/228/154/53

Instead I did some of cleaning up myself:
2 Chevy Impala,
3 Ice Cream Trucks,
1 Lorry,
1 Garbage truck,
2 Bugatti Royale,
1 Taxi,
1 Chrysler Convertible,
1 Trojan Horse.
12 pieces of unadulterated junk off the street.

And how to do it? Simply slow these abominations down by standing in the way until Autoreturn takes care of the junk. Most of the time, I didn't had to wait the full time, as these abominations are slow enough to eat up half of the time before Autoreturn kills them.

 More junk: http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_409.png
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Lori/146/193/39
This time in parts.

 

 

[Hrdtop75 Deluxe]

Congrates on your achievement,

I noticed that you have had a party recently, would you like me ring HAZMAT?

[Timothy McGregor]

Must be a lot of sim crossing bugs lately, as these are piling up virtually everwhere. I asked her to come remove a stack of them last night, and she did, except she deliberately LEFT the ice cream truck there. 

Nuisance: one that is annoying, unpleasant, or obnoxious : pest
That includes unattended vehicles that drive daily through my living room.  

 

[Phil Deakins]

---

AnnMarie Otoole wrote:

LOL I went to a LOT of trouble to develop a script so they COULD run without a driver.  Perhaps the script is primitive

but no one else has been able to create a self navigating script that will work on any road, railroad or waterway

. 

---

You make the mistake of assuming that, because nobody else has done it, nobody else can. That's a bold assumption, especially since it's not true.

[Timothy McGregor]

So when I went back to the SL viewer after posting that last comment, I found myself quite a distance away from where I had been standing. Well played, AnnMarie. Well played. :manlol:

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

I love these vehicles.

They have been great sources of exploring mainland and finding unexpected gems.

 

All one has to do to keep them off one's land is set an autoreturn. Something that should be done anyway, to prevent more intentional sources of mischief.

Anyone who claims to have been run off their land by these things is seriously iconoclastic or foolish (or both).

They give a lot of addec community value, at nearly no cost.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

[Timothy McGregor]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

I love these vehicles.

They have been great sources of exploring mainland and finding unexpected gems.

 

All one has to do to keep them off one's land is set an autoreturn. Something that should be done anyway, to prevent more intentional sources of mischief.

Anyone who claims to have been run off their land by these things is seriously iconoclastic or foolish (or both).

They give a lot of addec community value, at nearly no cost.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

---

In your opinion, they add value. In my opinion, and that of many others, they are a nuisance, an eyesore and a blight on the mainland. Oh and by the way, I was literally run off my land and shoved a sim away by one of them. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

In your opinion, they add value. In my opinion, and that of many others, they are a nuisance, an eyesore and a blight on the mainland. Oh and by the way, I was literally run off my land and shoved a sim away by one of them. 

---

How?

They lack the ability to force you to sell your land and then buy it from you, so they cannot run you off your land.

Set an auto-return, and they won't collect there.

 As for push, just disable push on your land, OR turn off object entry.

 

- These are various setting that are best left off anyway, to prevent griefers from using your land as a staging point.

 

[Timothy McGregor]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

---

Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

In your opinion, they add value. In my opinion, and that of many others, they are a nuisance, an eyesore and a blight on the mainland. Oh and by the way, I was literally run off my land and shoved a sim away by one of them. 

---

How?

They lack the ability to force you to sell your land and then buy it from you, so they cannot run you off your land.

Set an auto-return, and they won't collect there.

 As for push, just disable push on your land, OR turn off object entry.

 

- These are various setting that are best left off anyway, to prevent griefers from using your land as a staging point.

 

---

Why should I have to do any of that? I have reasons for not wanting auto return on, and object entry on. My avatar was standing just in front of my land, on Linden roadway, when it was pushed out into the next sim, roughly a full sim distance.I'm not going to change the way I do things to accomodate this garbage. Anyone else who created thousands upon thousands of objects and released them out onto the mainland to run unattended and at such a level of general annoyance to the community would be summarily banned as a griefer. Why does AnnMarie get a pass here? Her vehicles are a nuisance, and she is a griefer, if anyone else is. 

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

---

Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

In your opinion, they add value. In my opinion, and that of many others, they are a nuisance, an eyesore and a blight on the mainland. Oh and by the way, I was literally run off my land and shoved a sim away by one of them. 

---

How?

They lack the ability to force you to sell your land and then buy it from you, so they cannot run you off your land.

Set an auto-return, and they won't collect there.

 As for push, just disable push on your land, OR turn off object entry.

 

- These are various setting that are best left off anyway, to prevent griefers from using your land as a staging point.

 

---

Why should I have to do any of that? I have reasons for not wanting auto return on, and object entry on. My avatar was standing just in front of my land, on Linden roadway, when it was pushed out into the next sim, roughly a full sim distance.I'm not going to change the way I do things to accomodate this garbage. Anyone else who created thousands upon thousands of objects and released them out onto the mainland to run unattended and at such a level of general annoyance to the community would be summarily banned as a griefer. Why does AnnMarie get a pass here? Her vehicles are a nuisance, and she is a griefer, if anyone else is. 

---

Disagree. I've lived on the Mainland for two years now, on a Linden roadway, and those vehicles are one of the only things that give life to an otherwise dead environment. She should make bunnies and squirrels as well, and birds. Cute flying birds. 

 

[Timothy McGregor]

Disagree. I've lived on the Mainland for two years now, on a Linden roadway, and those vehicles are one of the only things that give life to an otherwise dead environment. She should make bunnies and squirrels as well, and birds. Cute flying birds. 

 

---

 

Well, see, I think flying penises give life to an otherwise dead environment. But if I were to set those off into the wild, such that they indiscriminately flew into people's homes or piled up at sim borders, and generally littered every single sim with crashed inoperative flying penises, I'd be considered a griefer. AnnMarie OToole is a griefer.

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

Zaphod Kotobide wrote:

Disagree. I've lived on the Mainland for two years now, on a Linden roadway, and those vehicles are one of the only things that give life to an otherwise dead environment. She should make bunnies and squirrels as well, and birds. Cute flying birds. 

 

---

 

Well, see, I think flying penises give life to an otherwise dead environment. But if I were to set those off into the wild, such that they indiscriminately flew into people's homes or piled up at sim borders, and generally littered every single sim with crashed inoperative flying penises, I'd be considered a griefer. AnnMarie OToole is a griefer.

---

Ew, that would be gross.

[AnnMarie Otoole]

Didn't your mama tell you to be careful if you play on the road?  Stand there long enough and you will be hit (gently).

THERE IS BUG IN SL.  ON MANY PARCELS THE NO-ENTRY FUNCTION IS NOT WORKING all the time.

I SPEND UP TO AN HOUR A DAY VISITING TROUBLE SPOTS TO REMOVE VEHICLES THAT HAVE ENTERED A NO-ENTRY PARCEL AND GOT STUCK WITH A NO-SCRIPT.

Do not rely on no-entry to stop objects coming on your land.  I've worked with Maestro Linden to diagnose this bug and although I can reproduce it hundreds of times a day and although the problem has been tracked down to a particular script instruction, it only fails about 1 time in 100 or more tries on average depending on the parcel.  Why some parcels are particularly vunerable has eluded analysis so far.  This frequency is apparently low enough that so far there is no action to correct it.

Until it is fixed there are a number of things you can do.

1. Turn on auto return.

2. Leave scripts turned on so they can get back to the road.

3. Send me an IM with the problem location and it will be put on our watch list and cleared at least once a day.

4. Report the problem to the Lindens to increase awareness to get this bug fixed.

 

[Timothy McGregor]

3. Send me an IM with the problem location and it will be put on our watch list and cleared at least once a day.

That ice cream truck is still there. You removed the other vehicles but you mumbled something about how the ice cream truck was generating sales, so what the hell, leave that there. Your **bleep** is polluting the mainland. It is piling up at every sim border. It is wrecking lawns and mowing down children.. INNOCENT children.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Sorry. That just popped into my head. :smileyvery-happy:

[AnnMarie Otoole]

HUH?  The ice cream truck is not on your land.  What is your problem?  It is not using your prims, it is not even in your region, it is using zero resources because NO scripts are running.  The ice creams are FREE, but because it is on no-script land you can't get any. Truth be known, they are not real ice creams, they are fakes so no problem about the refrigeration dying on the stranded vehicle.  You can't purchase the vehicle and its not spamming any one.  There is no SL advertising displayed. Its not blocking traffic on the roadway, its not even ON the roadway.

Who elected you the sidewalk police?  Go mind your own business. 

[Timothy McGregor]

---

AnnMarie Otoole wrote:

HUH?  The ice cream truck is not on your land.  What is your problem?  It is not using your prims, it is not even in your region, it is using zero resources because NO scripts are running.  The ice creams are FREE, but because it is on no-script land you can't get any. Truth be known, they are not real ice creams, they are fakes so no problem about the refrigeration dying on the stranded vehicle.  You can't purchase the vehicle and its not spamming any one.  There is no SL advertising displayed. Its not blocking traffic on the roadway, its not even ON the roadway.

Who elected you the sidewalk police?  Go mind your own business. 

---

Report Abuse > Disturbing the peace > Object littering

 

No, it's not on my land, but I still have to look at it every time I log in. And I have to look at them every time I set out to explore the mainland, and since I use the roads often, they do get in my way and they actually, despite what you say, impede movement at times. If this is the attitude you take, then I am certainly going to start ARing every single one I see. Read back through this post. You'll see a lot more people who don't like what you're doing than who do. And unlike you apparently, I care about what the mainland looks like. It bothers me when people deliberately leave their junk sitting around, knowing it's an eyesore to others, and knowing it detracts from others' enjoyment. You've done a lot of insisting that you're responsive to requests for removal, yet in this case you deliberately left this thing here. You just shrug it all off, and it seems to be entirely lost on you, because you're making money from it and gaining notoriety. Congratulations on that.

No scripts are running? It sure took off when I sat on it. Do you have a magic vehicle system now that doesn't use scripts? Your zero resources claim is patently false. It uses resources both client and server by just being there, and it serves no purpose whatsoever, being there, other than to draw attention to you, and perhaps to lure some unsuspecting fool into buying one of your licenses.