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EvaFord

DJ using ALT-Hostess for extra tips.

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You have been told what you can do. 1) Don't go back to the club or 2) Don't tip. Trying to figure out a solution to YOUR problem is that YOU demand people give up their anonymity just so YOU can know who is who. No one else cares if they are tipping one person or two as long as they are providing the service they were hired to do. But, for some reason YOU want people to out their alts just so YOU can decide whether to tip someone or not. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Just enjoy SL and have fun. 

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You never offered any other solutions just you did not like mine.

I did not ask for you to tell me what to do. I asked to discuss this problem of scamming in SL.  Anytime you take L$ from someone under false pretenses it is scamming. The discussion evolved into the Ethics of the issue. and you have now tried to make it a personal issue about me to cloud the real concerns.     Criminals in SL.   and this guy is doing more than just saying tip my ALT every five minutes, but I had to start somewhere.

Others do care and change can happen one person at a time.   

  • "...just because we are anonymous in a Virtural World it is still important to retain a sense of ethics.Even though we are in a virtual environment we are interacting with other people and if we behave irresponsibly, we will hurt others.
  • I have found that someone who will scam you on a small thing will steal from you on a large scale if given the opportunity.
  • “The same anonymity and freedom that allows people to explore new identities and to create and collaborate in new and productive ways online allows them to deceive others and undermine community norms with little accountability.
  • Many players doing “unethical” things justify their actions by downplaying their significance, arguing that "it's just a game"; others justify and condemn actions only in the context of the rules set by designers, arguing that "if the game allows you to do it, go for it." 
  •  These are quotes except for the one in blue.and came from Sam Gilbert's Blog.

Heart Brimmer wrote:

You have been told what you can do. 1) Don't go back to the club or 2) Don't tip. Trying to figure out a solution to YOUR problem is that YOU demand people give up their anonymity just so YOU can know who is who. No one else cares if they are tipping one person or two as long as they are providing the service they were hired to do. But, for some reason YOU want people to out their alts just so YOU can decide whether to tip someone or not. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Just enjoy SL and have fun. 

 

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I saw early on that you did not want solutions other then outing alts. Wouldn't have made a hill of beans if i have offered solutions or not, YOU wanted what YOU wanted and that was that. Have a wonderful SL 

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i read another story of alt abuse here in the forums, a person registered many alts and went to people that liked to help new users, so they can get lindens and expensive things.. when someone find out that is being scammed some trust is lost in the process, and hurts the victim more than losing some lindens.

unfortunately people can be very creative in distinct forms to scam, using alts being one of their tools, we usually cant do anything about it, there has been other solutions suggested, like a system called RedZone, that recorded IP addresses and store them in a database, so sim owners could protect themselves from alts of griefers, but it didnt work out with time, as many people opposed them to protect their privacy of not revealing their alts, and because sometimes an innocent person was wrongly accused of being a griefer and the system, being grid wide, blocked that person from the sims that had installed the alt detection systems.

there has not been a stable alt detection system that i know of, with some creativity from users, we may see one that works exactly as is intended, to stop scammers using alts to do their deed, and leave innocent people protected.

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EvaFord wrote:

  I did not have any really good solutions, but I was hoping that you might.   Now I realize that a lot of you who who post here really do not care what happens to others as long as you get to play the way you want to. 

Good thing I have an inventory of very tough skins !    
:)
    See you around SL. 

Nail slapped, smacked, thumped, beaten and firmly hit over the head.  It's Second Life.

After 21 pages of thread, the general consensus has been overwhelming in the view that:-

a) There isn't a problem

b) The perceived problem is experienced by you

c) Yours to manage

I'm pleased that you do have a tough skin EvaFord, especially as this thread hasn't yet turned nasty, this is still pretty tame but nobody is supporting scamming someone else, just that there is no support to the notion that what you have described is a scam.

By the same token, I could argue that when someone brings me a  glass in a restaurant and says "I will be your server" and then it's a self service and that person expects a 15% tip, that i'm being scammed since in another restaurant, the equivalent "server" is working extremely hard but no, in both instances, the amount I tip would be discretionary.

Anyway, i'm sure that any response will repeat your original statement again and say it's a problem thus there's no further use to this thread so I just need to go and click the unsubscribe thingy!

 

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Your problem is with one specific person. That's clear. I will take your word that this is a bad and dishonest person.

So, you can...

1) Abuse report them for fraud.

2) Privately alert specific people like club owners and your friends about this person. See if anyone else had problems with them and, if so, have them abuse report for fraud as well. Multiple reports will have more weight.

Legally, it is impossible to slander or libel someone by telling the truth. However, you have to be prepared to prove what you're saying is true. The whole reason for the categorization of "public figures" is they are the one group that you can publicly say things about that are later discovered to be untrue without committing slander/libel if and only if you did not know they were untrue yourself. This is why the bar for a person being considered a public figure is set so high.

If you had started this thread by saying, "There's a person that I know from long personal experience is a scam artist and I want to keep others from being hurt, what can I do?" you probably would have been given some good advice.  Several people have noted that your motives were NOT clear. Go back and read your initial post and see if it sounds like what you're saying now. Most people think it doesnt.

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EvaFord wrote:

Do not  worry what others are doing unless it is harmful to me?  Do not worry that these activities might cause harm to  the other residents? Yes, that seems to be what people here believe. So you demonize me for searching for some sort of safeguard.  Trying to brainstorm solutions and work with in the system for change. You do not even know me or my story.

  I did not have any really good solutions, but I was hoping that you might.   Now I realize that a lot of you who who post here really do not care what happens to others as long as you get to play the way you want to.

See you around SL

 

No thanks I would not want to run into someone that does NOT respect the privacy of others and twists peoples words around as if we didn't care what happened to other people. I never said I didn't care about others you have NO idea what I do in sl besides my profile and how many people I have helped inworld in any way I could if needed, However I come to sl for MY experience, and I know how to keep safe on sl and the internet, I am not petty about how people make lindens nor do I care who their alts are. I also didn't demonize you. I think sl may not be a healthy playground for you. Done posting here, this is like talking in circles and then to be misquoted and quick reason change for original post. Hope you find happiness in sl. Good Bye.

p.s, since this in not technical or about other non personal information that may affect others in a negative way, no I don't even want to know your story as most of it I am sure is NOT my business to even know. If you read through all of your posts the reason for the post has changed what you wanted to do to this dj changed and evertyhing in between so again, this does not seem like a discussion, just some kind of validation for personal issue with someone.

 edit for spelling correction

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It is good that this discussion never turned ugly. That is a credit to the openess of our community here.  It was hard to stay on task and get a good discussion because it is a very emotional and controversal subject. But I think we did for the most part..

People who post here are very intelligent and will weigh both sides of the issue, and wiith time will find a solution that works for the good of our community.  I still believe people are inherently good. Though I have been burned bady here in SL,  I did try to keep this about Ethics and not my personal problem.

After 21 pages of thread, the general consensus has been overwhelming in the view that:-

a) There isn't a problem

b) The perceived problem is experienced by you

c) Yours to manage

I hope this link works for you. I am very interested in the Issue of Trust and Ethics in Virtual Worlds and The Impact On  Real Life Mental Health

http://www.scoop.it/t/ethics-in-virtuality

Good Play is looking at different age gorups and Ehtics in Gaming. in-depth interviews with 15-25 year-olds.  Howard Gardner is a well known name in Education.

http://rezedhub.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2047896%3ABlogPost%3A10578 

 

Interesting Read:  http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Justice-Laws-Online-Worlds/dp/0300177747?SubscriptionId=AKIAIRVHGK2D47UNA24Q&tag=scot0e-20&linkCode=sp1&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=0300177747

I am just one small voice.  But I am not alone.  Others are concerned too. 

It is time to close this thread and move on to my real life work.

Thanks to all who took time to offer ideas.

Eva

 

 

 

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It is a very interesting topic, isn't it. 

You never know, in a Virtural World, with whom you are interacting.

Seriously though, I must go. I think everyone agrees that it is time to close the thread.

Thanks for offering your comments.

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EvaFord wrote:

It is good that this discussion never turned ugly. That is a credit to the openess of our community here.  It was hard to stay on task and get a good discussion because it is a very emotional and controversal subject. But I think we did for the most part..

People who post here are very intelligent and will weigh both sides of the issue, and wiith time will find a solution that works for the good of our community.  I still believe people are inherently good. Though I have been burned bady here in SL,  I did try to keep this about Ethics and not my personal problem.

After 21 pages of thread, the general consensus has been overwhelming in the view that:-

a) There isn't a problem

b) The perceived problem is experienced by you

c) Yours to manage

I hope this link works for you. I am very interested in the Issue of Trust and Ethics in Virtual Worlds and The Impact On  Real Life Mental Health

Good Play is looking at different age gorups and Ehtics in Gaming. in-depth interviews with 15-25 year-olds.  Howard Gardner is a well known name in Education.

 

 

Interesting Read: 

I am just one small voice.  But I am not alone.  Others are concerned too. 

It is time to close this thread and move on to my real life work.

Thanks to all who took time to offer ideas.

Eva

 

 

 

 

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EvaFord wrote:

It is a very interesting topic, isn't it. 

You never know, in a Virtural World, with whom you are interacting.

Seriously though, I must go. I think everyone agrees that it is time to close the thread.

Thanks for offering your comments.

Why stop now?  finally getting a track on the scent of the scam.

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Is it?

Was that information ever there, or are you just posting personal information about me that you just happened to find ?  How do I know? How does anyone know? The edit button is a legal option, right. So there is nothing wrong with using it.  

Also , your whole arguement here has been about the right to privacy of personal information.  

Maybe you convinced me.

 

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EvaFord wrote:

Is it?

Was that information ever there, or are you just posting personal information about me that you just happened to find ?  How do I know? How does anyone know? The edit button is a legal option, right. So there is nothing wrong with using it.  

Also , your whole arguement here has been about the right to privacy of personal information.  

Maybe you convinced me.

 

"legal options"  ???

you are getting your worlds mixed up.

if you wanted to take action about a perceived problem, then you would file an Abuse Report, also known as an AR.  someone here can tell you how to do that, it's been a while since I used it.

But that process of course, would not provide substance for your "paper."

You are very confused about what my discussion and any other discussion was about.

Be careful there, sister, on your hypothesis.

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:


EvaFord wrote:

Is it?

Was that information ever there, or are you just posting personal information about me that you just happened to find ?  How do I know? How does anyone know? The edit button is a legal option, right. So there is nothing wrong with using it.  

Also , your whole arguement here has been about the right to privacy of personal information.  

Maybe you convinced me.

 

"legal options"  ???

you are getting your worlds mixed up.

if you wanted to take action about a perceived problem, then you would file an Abuse Report, also known as an AR.  someone here can tell you how to do that, it's been a while since I used it.

But that process of course, would not provide substance for your "paper."

You are very confused about what my discussion and any other discussion was about.

Be careful there, sister, on your hypothesis.

The edit button is a ok .... legal......option to use, that is why is it there. 

No mention of filing any abuse charges. Just an example of allowing other's a  right to privacy.  

And no I am not confused. What I learned here in the discussion is people DO want to have control over their personal information AND information about their ALTS. They do not want it  made public without their concent.

 edited typos

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What were we misguided into by the topic and the first few posts (that changed their tone after replies) by this person? Was this misleading to get people to participate in some study and is THAT ethical? I find this whole thread she/he started to possibly (using the word loosely here) mislead people into this non-discussion. Wonder if there is any guidelines about this? I think ethics and morals apply to the OP and in no way a DJ using an alt. Just saying. LOL and replies change from post to post first we don't care about other people and then we are intelligent. Should I laugh now or look into ethics on misleading people in the sl forum to be quoted and edited in some blog? Hmm...

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Malanya wrote:

What were we misguided into by the topic and the first few posts (that changed their tone after replies) by this person? Was this misleading to get people to participate in some study and is THAT ethical? I find this whole thread she/he started to possibly (using the word loosely here) mislead people into this non-discussion. Wonder if there is any guidelines about this? I think ethics and morals apply to the OP and in no way a DJ using an alt. Just saying. LOL and replies change from post to post first we don't care about other people and then we are intelligent. Should I laugh now or look into ethics on misleading people in the sl forum to be quoted and edited in some blog? Hmm...

perhaps, Malanya.  if I were to write a paper, might include that. 

yes, people take quotes and names from forum discussions and blog about them outside of SL.

 

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I thnk existence of any given paper here is just as likely or unlikely as the existence of a scamming octopus DJ/Hostess, or EvaFord's status as a former club-owner, shut-in, wife of a lawyer, betrayed longtime business partner and/or Noodle Queen of Siam.

(Well, she didn't actually CLAIM to be Noodle Queen of Siam, but I WANT there to be a Noodle Queen of Siam, I know I'M not her and EvaFord is certainly adaptable.)

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I know, I was just being sarcastic :) Just seemed to have been a dishonest lead just like the original post. Have a great day :) I am really done reading this thread.

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It is good that this discussion never turned ugly. That is a credit to the openess of our community here.  It was hard to stay on task and get a good discussion because it is a very emotional and controversal subject. But I think we did for the most part..

People who post here are very intelligent and will weigh both sides of the issue, and wiith time will find a solution that works for the good of our community.  I still believe people are inherently good. Though I have been burned bady here in SL,  I did try to keep this about Ethics and not my personal problem.

After 21 pages of thread, the general consensus has been overwhelming in the view that:-

a) There isn't a problem

b) The perceived problem is experienced by you

c) Yours to manage

I hope this link works for you. I am very interested in the Issue of Trust and Ethics in Virtual Worlds and The Impact On  Real Life Mental Health

http://www.scoop.it/t/ethics-in-virtuality

Good Play is looking at different age gorups and Ehtics in Gaming. in-depth interviews with 15-25 year-olds.  Howard Gardner is a well known name in Education.

http://rezedhub.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2047896%3ABlogPost%3A10578 

 

Interesting Read:  http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Justice-Laws-Online-Worlds/dp/0300177747?SubscriptionId=AKIAIRVHGK2D47...

I am just one small voice.  But I am not alone.  Others are concerned too. 

It is time to close this thread and move on to my real life work.

Thanks to all who took time to offer ideas.

Eva

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EvaFord wrote:

There is a DJ in SL who uses an Alt as his Hostess/Partner. He claims "She" is voice verified implying that this ALT is female. He even made a fake first life profile with a fake photo of this ALT Partner.   I find this unethical. Guests are being asked to Tip the DJ's Alt.  I see it as a Scam. 

Since this is a Public figure in SL. Someone asking you for L$, do you feel that it should ok to post information about this in your profile?  I feel that people who ask to be compensated in SL, need to be required to be honest as to where that money is going.        Should Public Figures be exempt from some TOS disclosures.

______________________________________________________________________________________________Added ADDED at last of discussion: 

If you had started this thread by saying, "There's a person that I know from long personal experience is a scam artist and I want to keep others from being hurt, what can I do?" you probably would have been given some good advice.  Several people have noted that your motives were NOT clear. Go back and read your initial post and see if it sounds like what you're saying now. Most people think it doesnt.

Thank you.. This was definately an issue in the discussion.

"Added ADDED at last of discussion:

If you had started this thread by saying, "There's a person that I know from long personal experience is a scam artist and I want to keep others from being hurt, what can I do?"

 

well now, that changes everything.

then my initial response would be....

following someone into SL from Real Life is pretty creepy.  Probably not a good idea.

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Hp Xenobuilder wrote:

as contests are mostly determined by entries and their votes I'd say you better snag a screenshot of all the avi names and do some future comparative results before returning to that club, of course if you didn't have 17 of your pals join the contest and win by popularity among peers vs a non biased panel of judges.

I'm going to explain how this works, or at least one of the ways it does because it's not always "alts" or calling in friends to vote for you at these contests.

Some of the Contest Boards have a "remove name" function that the person controlling the board, usually the host or hostess, has access to.

Voting gets closed but then there will be a period of time before the winners are announced.  In the back ground during this time, the person controlling the board removes names from the board.  You don't see it happen because the board doesn't refresh until the person running it hits the announce winners function.  Once they hit 'announce winners,' the only names you see are the winners.

How wide spread this is I don't know, but it is one of the ways it's done.  Sucks big time.

 

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