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EvaFord

DJ using ALT-Hostess for extra tips.

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actually it would be on the club owners behalf, if the owner wanted to insure to his/her patrons he/she ran a totally one person per avi establishment. Just to cater to those who would obviously and so generously increase their tippage and land contributions to such an establishment on the behest of knowing he/she went the extra mile to cater to those who need said verification.     

compensation for the extra labor, bandwidth and protocol would only be fitting plus you would have your MOST EXCELLENT HANG OUT !!!

HEY !, Id go for it,HECK YEAH !, voice and video verification ...if it was a lucrative means to insure patron satisfaction and return visits !

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Remember too that Discussion Forums are a part of entertainment offered in SL.  

And they are meant to be just that... Discussions of Ideas and ways to address concerns, alert people to  problems,  and hopefully keep our community growing and evolving in a healthy,  safe way.

 

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I  find it a excellent breeding ground for new breakthroughs and implemmentation of marketing ideas. A marvelous way of determining what the casual user wants and desires.

BTW...A MOST EXCELLENT TOPIC !!!

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EvaFord wrote:


Heart Brimmer wrote:


EvaFord wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

You play SL with an avatar that is an extension of your RL self and I assume you fill out your profile accordingly and are expecting everyone else to do the same if they are in business because anything else is a lie and a lie is a scam, and any small scam means they will steal from you in a large way  That is a gross generalization and is just shaky grounds for imposing your choice on other's.  It is not superior ethics.

You said that not tipping is not an option for you, but you only want to tip certain avatars and so those avatars should disclose everything you need to see if they conform to your criteria.   People give you the information you need to decide if they fit the criteria - or they don't, you tip or not based on if they prove they fit your criteria.  If they choose to not give you the information you want then all you can do is not tip..  There is no other choice.

BTW saying 'I guess"  didn't negate the fact that you wanted other readers to consider that those that disagree with you are DJ's doing the same thing and implying that  their opinions should be discounted.

You made the assumption that I wanted others to discount differing opinions. That is not the case.  A discussion needs BOTH sides of the argument to have any merit at all.  It is NOT about being right or wrong.  

And yes Not tipping is not something I would ever do if I stay and enjoy a club and the build. I will tip a DJ requardless.
The only information I am asking for is tell me if you are asking me to tip an ALT. 

Why is that so difficult?  I do not care if you are man or woman or what your other alts are or if you work under different DJ names..... just tell me if I am tipping an ALT. and also tipping you as the DJ.  That is not personal information that will harm you.  Right?  If you are afraid people will not tip your ALT if they knew it was your ALT then maybe you should ask yourself why that is the case.  Maybe that isn't a concern.   But when money is involved, I think it is a fair request.  AM I tipping your ALT ?  Then with the information I can decide how much I want to tip, if at all.  Sounds reasonable to me.

My mother taught me this when teaching me Ehtics.  If you lie about small things, you will lie about big things.  And yes, I do not leave my personal ethics behind when I enter SL. just because I am anonymous.  And no, I do not impose my ethics on you. Just like RL, the Community sets the standards.  That is why we discuss things in a Civil manner.

Yes, yes, yes I KNOW I said I would not enter this discussion again but the more I read the more pissed off I get. Again, I have highlighted the part I want to comment on. Even IF I had an alt, I sure as hell would not tell YOU or anybody else I am an alt. The TOS states that no one has the right to find that out about anyone's alt in SL. It's no one's business but mine IF I choose to have an alt (and I don't) and work that alt in a club. IF LL decided to add that to the TOS that ALL avi's must disclose they have alts and to name them, then I and I think many others would leave SL before disclosing such information. This is a matter of right to privacy. What I chose to do in SL is my business and LL's not anyone else's and certainly not YOURS. As has been stated before, if you don't like the club, don't go back, in fact, don't go to any clubs because I can promise you that some of those people that work there are in fact, alts. Doesn't matter if they are doing two jobs at once or not. NO ONE has the right to demand they reveal that to anyone. And now, hopefully I WON'T be back and maybe I should just stop notifications of this thread, period.

I do hope you will be back and not be angered at the discussion but offer your point of view on the topic.  
Please note I am only advocating that an ALT in a BUSINESS/Club setting reveal that it is an ALT asking for L$ tips. I am not asking for other personal info.
   That is entirely different.   Please keep your private ALTS and enjoy them.  I am only concerned when L$ are changing hands.  


It doesn't matter! IF I have an alt that I use for working at one club and an alt for another club, what difference does it make?? I am doing two separate jobs, for criminy sakes! And as I stated before, IT'S NO ONE'S BUSINESS IF I USE AN ALT FOR WORK OR NOT! Don't like it? Don't tip and don't come back to the club! Or better yet, AvaFord, leave SL and find another place to push your own set of ethics and morals on people. 

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EvaFord wrote:


Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

Good grief, I'm about to lose patience, too.

Eva - here is a suggestion:

make yourself an alt, and try out some roleplaying adventures.  Immerse a bit in another community that does it strictly roleplay.

Learn more about what other people use SL for.  Have an adventure.

Role play is FUN !  And wonderful escape in SL. 
:)
 
:)
:)   Great example of creative use of ALTS in SL.

 

I had to erase my response.  I don't feel like getting another vacation at the moment.

I think there is more to this story.  There usually is.

Considering the most recent enlightenment as to how you got their real life info....

...yes, an real ethics discussion is in order.

not one that is subterfuge.

 

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Thanks Hp,

A nice place to brainstorm solutions to all kinds of issues big and small. 

And BOTH sides of  issues need to be welcomed in order to make it worthwhile.  If people recognize that all views are respected in the discussion they will join in and have an enjoyable experience. 

And who knows, it may trigger you to invent the next Big Breakthrough idea in SL.     

ID a problem, find a solution = new invention !

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EvaFord wrote:

Delbert, 

Also this could be very good for the ethical Club owners who offer legitimate $L  prizes.  and creative entertainers who put on elaborate performances, choreographing and designing.  People could then appreciate the great talent and effort involved in this one man show.and tip accordingly

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Funny you say that.

I have been in Sl a little over 6 years and have run 2 clubs and sold them after they become self sufficient and stable financially. I have seen the unethical clubs and business, and I have seen the ethical businesses.. It never fails. The unethical business always seems to fail and fall flat on its face.. Sure, they may get away with their antics for a short while. But it is exactly that, short lived. People figure out what places are unethical and which ones aren't rather quickly and make their decisions accordingly. Bad business usually operates in a way which leads to failure. As for the ethical business/clubs,  It thrives and moves forward and stays financially fit because people enjoy supporting them and they are  comfortable. The people in general will be happy to reward the hard work of a good place. This can not be achieved by the unethical  business. People talk and word gets around. I think that, in it self, is more powerful than any law that LL can create. Lets face it. Laws do not prevent crimes. It only gives the governing body the ability to enforce punishment. People are going to break them even if they are there. Educating the community to beware and what to look out for is owerful in it self. When I ran my Club. I had 7 jobs. DJ, resident helper, tech support, main gate greeter, staff duty, Security, web tech, lol But i did them all as the same person Except security.

Things just have a way of working it self out in the long run :)

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It doesn't matter! IF I have an alt that I use for working at one club and an alt for another club, what difference does it make??

No that doesn't matter to me at all. Perfectly acceptable.  Your ALT is not present at the club where you are working at the same moment and you are not constantly asking me to give that ALT my L$.  

What I chose to do in SL is my business and LL's not anyone else's and certainly not YOURS. ... NO ONE has the right to demand they reveal that to anyone.

Sorry, but the moment you ask me for my $L in this Club business setting  it becomes my business .

Or better yet, AvaFord, leave SL and find another place to push your own set of ethics and morals on people.

Or another way to look at it.  Do not push your ethics and morals on those of us who chose a different standard.  I am enjoying exchanging ideas here.  I love SL. Role Play, creative use of ALTS....Discussions... the works. But there is a problem in SL with people who take advantage of others because of the anonymity.  Some of us do not leave our ethical behavior at the log in screen.   Some of us do not excuse unethical behavior simply because it is "Only a Game". 

Nope, I am not leaving!   I  LOVE SL. I love the designers and creators here... WOW you amaze me. I want to use my small voice to make this THE BEST and SAFEST GAME  it can be !  

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The Discussion has evolved as all good discussions do. 

Don't you think it is much more interesting to discuss the ethical and unethical use of ALTS for fun and for business purposes as opposed to focusing on a personal issue. ?

Do you agree that ALTS can be used to scam and cause hurt in SL?  I agree that there are valid uses for them.  So let's come up with a creative way to solve the negative aspects and make SL a safer place. 

But I I think in order to to that we have to start small.........

 

 

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EvaFord wrote:

The Discussion has evolved as all good discussions do. 

Don't you think it is much more interesting to discuss the ethical and unethical use of ALTS for fun and for business purposes as opposed to focusing on a personal issue. ?

Do you agree that ALTS can be used to scam and cause hurt in SL?  I agree that there are valid uses for them.  So let's come up with a creative way to solve the negative aspects and make SL a safer place. 

But I I think in order to to that we have to start small.........

 

 

I retract any empathy for your situation.

Not your prop and entertainment for the day.

 

 

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Problems are usually first identified because something happened to you .

Right? 

And if you want to make it better for your community. what do you do?  

 

 

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:


EvaFord wrote:


Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

Good grief, I'm about to lose patience, too.

Eva - here is a suggestion:

make yourself an alt, and try out some roleplaying adventures.  Immerse a bit in another community that does it strictly roleplay.

Learn more about what other people use SL for.  Have an adventure.

Role play is FUN !  And wonderful escape in SL. 
:)
 
:)
:)   Great example of creative use of ALTS in SL.

 

I had to erase my response.  I don't feel like getting another vacation at the moment.

I think there is more to this story.  There usually is.

Considering the most recent enlightenment as to how you got their real life info....

...yes, an real ethics discussion is in order.

not one that is subterfuge.

 

subterfuge.something designed to deceive: a plan, action, or device designed to hide a real objective, or the process of hiding a real objective
 
I have been VERY clear about my objective.   Discuss it if you want to  or do not discuss it, but do not try to make this into a Personal attack  from assumptions you have made about me.

 
We usually identify a problem because something happened . .   And then work with in the system to create change in a positive way.  That is the only way to be successful.

 

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EvaFord wrote:

Problems are usually first identified because something happened to you .

Right? 

And if you want to make it better for your community. what do you do?  

 

 

Interesting topic - problems identified because they happened to you. Most of my time on the forums is spent helping people with technical problems - there are several of us who try to chip in and help like this because we've seen and heard a lot and we can often identify problems because many of them are comparatively common. Some are caused by Linden Lab's end of things and some are caused by the users' computers or connections.  We always ask for as much information as possible about what's going on before we make suggestions because we need as many details as possible.

 

Sometimes we can see that its a well-known Linden Lab problem  and we either suggest a workaround or all commiserate because there's no fix and we're all in the same boat. Sometimes a number of people suddenly have the same new problem and we discover there's a NEW glitch with the system, which we try to let Linden Lab know about so it can be fixed promptly.

Then some people have problems specifically on their end. A lot of these are familiar too. We suggest possible solutions.  A lot of times their problems can be caused by changing settings or downloading new drivers and they're good to go and happy.

However, there's a class of people who become quite familiar with on the forums here who insist their problems are caused by Linden Lab when all the symptoms tell us the problem is actually on their end. They don't listen to us when we tell them what they should try because they're SURE it's a systemic problem even though most other people on the system don't have the same problems that they do.

Those people are very annoying.

And they never, ever get their problems fixed.

Because they're looking in the wrong place.

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Eek gads!  

I'm not an alt, I'm Celestiall's twin sister.  She made this account for me, but I rarely use it, so I let her run this avatar to do sit pose tests and stuff.  

GIMMEE MONEY!   (it's ok, I'm a completely different person than Celestiall)

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There is a problem with ALTS working together with the primary avatar and scamming in SL Clubs..  Brainstorming solutions seemed like a good way to come up with a solution. But that is not an easy one to solve.

There are no easy fixes, but hopefully someone will find one, that still allows us the fun and freedom of a Role Play and efficiency in business, but allow us to know that we are not being manipulated and decieved into giving our L$ away to an ALT.

Without naming anyone person, but speaking from personal experience with a scam artist, I attempted to discuss the issue respecfully. 

Thanks to all who offered opinions and added to the discussion.

Goodnight.  :)

 

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EvaFord wrote:


I
t doesn't matter! IF I have an alt that I use for working at one club and an alt for another club, what difference does it make??

No that doesn't matter to me at all. Perfectly acceptable.  Your ALT is not present at the club where you are working at the same moment and you are not constantly asking me to give that ALT my L$.  

What I chose to do in SL is my business and LL's not anyone else's and certainly not YOURS. ... 
NO ONE has the right to demand they reveal that to anyone.

Sorry, but the moment you ask me for my $L in this Club business setting  it becomes my business .

Or better yet, AvaFord, leave SL and find another place to push your own set of ethics and morals on people.

Or another way to look at it.  Do not push your ethics and morals on those of us who chose a different standard.  I am enjoying exchanging ideas here.  I love SL. Role Play, creative use of ALTS....Discussions... the works. But there is a problem in SL with people who take advantage of others because of the anonymity.  Some of us do not leave our ethical behavior at the log in screen.   Some of us do not excuse unethical behavior simply because it is "Only a Game". 

Nope, I am not leaving!   I  LOVE SL. I love the designers and creators here... WOW you amaze me. I want to use my small voice to make this THE BEST and SAFEST GAME  it can be !  

Are you seriously kidding?? I had to quote the entire post but ths: "Sorry, but the moment you ask me for my $L in this Club business setting  it becomes my business ." It is Absolutely None of your business, my businees, or Joe's business. This is Not a discussion, I hope you realize and the forums are not part of the "entertainment" of SL being inworld and what you do, create RP is. I think you may have sl and rl confused here. A discussion should not be an arguemnet as you put it and yes some discussions have a right or wrong to the topic. I just can't perceive you have the audacity that you think it is Your business because you Chose to walk into a venue where there is a DJ and voluntary tipping. reading this thread I have seen you become flippant with your reasoning (meaning you kept changing the issue at hand) I call it talking out of both sides of the mouth. It's your business if I am alt where $L may be paid. I am laughing out loud so hard and actually can't finish my dinner. Try the mute button, it actually works. I would suggest staying out of other peoples sl as it is a personal experience, Knowing who people's alts are and them having to identify themselves because they do things for Lindens, sorry to say isn't what SL is based on. "Virtual World"

eta: wording

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Another thought crossed my mind, what if by tipping the DJ and the Host, both the same person, that RL person was able to put food on the dinner table that night for there family. Hard times are real.

Just a thought.

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

Another thought crossed my mind, what if by tipping the DJ and the Host, both the same person, that RL person was able to put food on the dinner table that night for there family. Hard times are real.

Just a thought.

Good thought, Teagan but she's just going to turn it around and say that you should reveal that you are an alt, because it's HER business that she know. *sighs* some people....

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

Another thought crossed my mind, what if by tipping the DJ and the Host, both the same person, that RL person was able to put food on the dinner table that night for there family. Hard times are real.

Just a thought.

Exactly.

When she gets back ask her to find out what kind of a computer he is using.  need to copy down the specs.

 

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

Another thought crossed my mind, what if by tipping the DJ and the Host, both the same person, that RL person was able to put food on the dinner table that night for there family. Hard times are real.

Just a thought.

Yes, they are for me too but no excuse to scam and con others. 

 

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These guidelines cover Resident participation on our Second Life community pages, which include the Second Life Blogs, Forums, Answers, Bug Tracker, User Groups, and the Knowledge Base. They are intended to help all Residents have a constructive and enjoyable conversation.

The Second Life Blogs, Forums, Bug Tracker, User Groups, Answers, and the Knowledge Base are places for you, the Residents of Second Life, to discuss ideas, experiences, and questions, and to share what you’ve learned about Second Life with each other and with us. We want to foster an honest and open exchange of ideas on our community pages; to do that, we want to encourage all participants to maintain an atmosphere of courtesy and respect for others at all times. Creating a constructive place for conversation will help us build a strong, better informed community in Second Life, and make both our communication channels and our world a more supportive and engaging place for all.

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There is a problem with ALTS working together with the primary avatar and scamming in SL Clubs..  Brainstorming solutions seemed like a good way to come up with a solution. But that is not an easy one to solve.

There are no easy fixes, but hopefully someone will find one, that still allows us the fun and freedom of a Role Play and efficiency in business, but allow us to know that we are not being manipulated and decieved into giving our L$ away to an ALT.

Without naming anyone person, but speaking from personal experience with a scam artist, I attempted to discuss the issue respecfully. 

Thanks to all who offered opinions and added to the discussion.

Goodnight. 

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EvaFord wrote:

They are intended to help all Residents have a constructive and enjoyable conversation.

The Second Life Blogs, Forums, Bug Tracker, User Groups, Answers, and the Knowledge Base are places for you, the Residents of Second Life, to discuss ideas, experiences, and questions, and to share what you’ve learned about Second Life with each other and with us. We want to foster an honest and open exchange of ideas on our community pages; to do that, we want to encourage all participants to maintain an atmosphere of courtesy and respect for others at all times. Creating a constructive place for conversation will help us build a strong, better informed community in Second Life, and make both our communication channels and our world a more supportive and engaging place for all


I am well aware of what forums are used for. I quoted your statement of them being "entertainment" which the theory of sl is based on your inworld experience. Forums, knowledge base, etc are used to help others, connectivity issues, announcements, employment, creation and building, to name a few.

The internet is a FREE place for all to enjoy, until it becomes governed and the basis of it is destroyed. You don't need to demand someone giving their alt information as they may have that alt for many GOOD reasons and it's truly no one's business. The minute we lose our privacy and the ability to be who we want and use an alt for whatever reason, the whole poing of this world is mute. If you use safe practices, not worry what others are doing, unless it's harmful to you and seriously your experience not just because you feel you are owed any private information about alt use, you can stay safe on sl and the internet. Seems like there is more to this than just worrying about voluntary tipping someone who is able to multi task and be encouraging to their abilities. people come to sl for many reasons, all of which is their own and none of our business. It in whole, should be kept that way. Period. What is quoted above needs to have the CS and TOS privacy in there also.

 

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Sounds like a very reasonable, level headed  response to me. 

 If you use safe practices, not worry what others are doing, unless it's harmful to you and seriously your experience not just because you feel you are owed any private information about alt use, you can stay safe on sl and the internet....

Do not  worry what others are doing unless it is harmful to me?  Do not worry that these activities might cause harm to  the other residents? Yes, that seems to be what people here believe.

Sorry to see it end with assumptions about my motives for posting.  I have been very clear about them from the very start..  I had a very bad experience with someone very dishonest . Now I see they are still scamming, but I can say nothing.   Because of TOS  and anonymity there is nothing I can do.   It might hurt the reputation . And I am gaged from relating the bad experience.    So you demonize me for searching for some sort of safeguard.  Trying to brainstorm solutions and work with in the system for change. You do not even know me or my story. 

  I did not have any really good solutions, but I was hoping that you might.   Now I realize that a lot of you who who post here really do not care what happens to others as long as you get to play the way you want to. 

Good thing I have an inventory of very tough skins !     :)    See you around SL. 

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