these are hard times and we all know it

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Boudicca Littlebird wrote:

LOL, left and right are creations by the same mind, socialism and capitalism are the same, there is another way but the human race will not be allowed to take it, just like the big bang, all science leads to the same end "gods", light being a wave will in the end destroy the foundation of god so wont be allowed to be understood by slaves, plus the third way will destroy the need for gold.

Now dig holes and find some gold or ask to be paid in gold so some one has to dig a hole, lol.

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Are you on drugs?  Because, your posts come from a very confused place.

 

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i think youre the one taking the bitter pills CN .. seems like you cant do anything besides criticize other posters

Jeanne

 

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Oh my.  You really are disconnected from reality Jeanne.    Have a nice life. 

 

[JeanneAnne]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Boudicca Littlebird wrote:

LOL, left and right are creations by the same mind, socialism and capitalism are the same, there is another way but the human race will not be allowed to take it, just like the big bang, all science leads to the same end "gods", light being a wave will in the end destroy the foundation of god so wont be allowed to be understood by slaves, plus the third way will destroy the need for gold.

Now dig holes and find some gold or ask to be paid in gold so some one has to dig a hole, lol.

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Are you on drugs?  Because, your posts come from a very confused place.

 

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i think youre the one taking the bitter pills CN .. seems like you cant do anything besides criticize other posters

Jeanne

 

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Oh my.  You really are disconnected from reality Jeanne.    Have a nice life. 

 

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thank Goddess im disconnected from your reality CN .. from what you post your reality sucks

thanks tho .. guess ill have the kinda life reality throws @ me .. same as every1 else

Jeanne

 

[Dillon Levenque]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

When I was little - about five or six - I was very into cars. We lived near a church so Sunday mornings the streets around my house had various cars parked all up and down and I'd go out walking to take a look at them. At the time, about 1970...

(My SL avatar looks up at me. "Gosh, you're old...")

(Yes, I am, Theresa. Be quiet. Anyway...)

At the time, about 1970, a ten-year old car was like something from Mars. Most people traded in their cars every three years and warranties were 1 year. Now, I drive a 10 year old car with over 100,000 miles on it and it's not even a particularly great car, just a pretty average one.  You see ten, fifteen, twenty year old cars every day and nobody thinks anything about it.

Throughout history, 90% of things were and are crap. However, when we look back in time the historical crap is long gone and forgotten and we only remember the 10% of things that  were actually done well while we see the crappy 90% of the current world and think about how much better things were back then.

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You are so right. I was going to say something about that myself. I got my first car at about that time—in my state you could get a driver's license at the age of five ;-)—: it was 12 years old. Had only about 30,000 miles because the old guy who owned it was a postman who used it for nothing but driving to and from work. But the point is that it was remarkably old to be still on the road. My friends were all astounded that it looked so good for such an oldie. "Wow! Concours d'Elegance!". I remember thinking often as I looked around at the cars around me on the highway that I was driving the oldest car out there.

I love the cars from the old days. They were well built. They had great steel. But modern cars require much less maintenance, last much longer, and oh by the way are about a zillion times better to drive. Try doing some brisk cornering on a less than beautifully surfaced road sometime. It would be a treat to do that in, say, a well tuned '66 Malibu, but unless there were a lot of straight sections you'd get your doors blown off by a Mazda 3. 

[Ceka Cianci]

i would love to stay and respond to these..but i will have to do it another day..i had gotten a call earlier that someone in the family is not doing so well and so i have to end my part in this discussion for now..

just want to thank you guys for your input..

i just came home to shower and i am going back over there..i just didn't want to leave anyone hanging if they had responsed to me..

just want to say it has been interesting and thank you..

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

Ceka, I hope everything turns out well. Hugs and best wishes.

Maddy

[JeanneAnne]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

i would love to stay and respond to these..but i will have to do it another day..i had gotten a call earlier that someone in the family is not doing so well and so i have to end my part in this discussion for now..

just want to thank you guys for your input..

i just came home to shower and i am going back over there..i just didn't want to leave anyone hanging if they had responsed to me..

just want to say it has been interesting and thank you..

 

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~hugggzzzzz~~ ~     ~ Ceka .. best wishes hon :heart:

Jeanne

 

[161488303349]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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Boudicca Littlebird wrote:

LOL, left and right are creations by the same mind, socialism and capitalism are the same, there is another way but the human race will not be allowed to take it, just like the big bang, all science leads to the same end "gods", light being a wave will in the end destroy the foundation of god so wont be allowed to be understood by slaves, plus the third way will destroy the need for gold.

Now dig holes and find some gold or ask to be paid in gold so some one has to dig a hole, lol.

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Are you on drugs?  Because, your posts come from a very confused place.

 

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you get used to it after a while. confusion. it not have much to do with drugs at all. some of us dont need meds to make us that way. we just natural born loopy. me included (:

[Ceka Cianci]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

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JeanneAnne wrote:

good post solstyse

i dont see economic 'strength' as being a good thing .. the 'stronger' the economy is the more environmental carnage takes place .. the more raw materials are used up .. the more reduced carbon gets emitted in2 the atmosphere .. the more pollutants get dumped in2 the waterways .. the more stuff gets thrown away ..

all living things are entropy machines .. human economic activity accelerates entropy .. takes useful things & turns them in2 waste .. im all for a 'weak' economy .. for ppl staying home & living their lives w/ the minimum amount of environmental impact .. this is the real reason i like SL

for all the coal & methane that must be burned to power the servers & air conditioners that keep them cool .. & all the hundreds of thousands of pcs .. i think its better for ppl to be setting home in frontuv a monitor listening to music & pretending to dance .. than for them to be driving their cars to some rl club listening to a band w/ hi watt speakers .. & drinking & driving home drunk .. i think this is a net energy savings

as for the military .. i may have felt sorry for kids who were kidnapped against their will & sent off to kill & be killed back when they had a draft .. nowadays they enlist of their own volition so whatever happens to them is their own fault .. it sucks that its often poor kids or kids not smart enuf for college .. this type of exploitation is obscene .. but they still dont hav2 participate if they dont want to .. i feel bad for any bad thing that happens but im not really that sympathetic to those who have bad things happen to them due to the poor choices they made

the US is a Fascist corporatocracy .. it is an evil & exploitative socioeconomic system .. it is based on the fantasy of infinite economic & population growth on a finite planet .. it exploits both ppl & the environment shamelessly & unsustainably .. the sooner this evil monster consumes itself in2 oblivion the better it will be for every1 & everything alive .. some would say that a Fascist corporatocracy is a pathology of free market capitalism .. i say that its the inevitable & natural culmination of free market capitalism & that capitalism itself is inherently evil .. many ppl who post in this forum virulently defend capitalism ~& the toy capitalsit economy of SL~ as if their very egos depended on it .. i feel sorry for these ppl cuz theyve had their minds parasitzed by the very memeplex the corporate overlords who exploit them have indoctrinated them w/ via propaganda .. theyve drank the koolaid in other words .. & they resent w/ all their hearts any1 who would point out the truth to them .. theyre like the kids who willingly enlist in the military even tho it kills them .. its all very sick & the sooner it weakens & dies the better off any survivors will be

anyhow .. thanks for engaging in the discussion solstyse .. :cathappy:

Jeanne

 

 

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when things are made to last..you don't use as many resources as you do when things are made to be bought and replaced in an econemy that is based on labor as spending..

the more value to the money the more quality you can buy...more quality means less resources used..

in a weak econemy people end up buying more of the crap that  is chowing up resources..then have to keep rebuying because ..well the stuff was only ment to last a year or two and it was crap..

hehehe

 

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i agree Ceka .. planned obsolescence is 1uv the fundamental flaws of capitalism .. but its an inevitable development .. having to buy the same thing over & over again cuz its cheap & breaks & cant be fixed generates more profit for the sociopathic corporation .. corporate greed pigs dont care how much damage they do to ppls lives or to the environment .. they only care about enriching themselves @ the expense of every1 & everything else .. its simply an evil system based on greed

Jeanne

 

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i agree..and that is why i am in favor of people becoming more local dependant than so dependant on outside businesses..

it's one thing to wash hands with each other..it's another to spit in my hands and tell me to rub them together i might get what i want hehehe

stronger communities make for weaker corporations..

i'm a big fan of Russell means..

i like his way of thinking when it comes to community..but it will never happen in this country...

but hopefully it will happen for his.. =)

 

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russell means beat on his navajo wife .. did you know that? he got banned from the navajo nation over it

 

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i believe you are referring to  his father-inlaw and not his wife..

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Ceka, I hope everything turns out well. Hugs and best wishes.

Maddy

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thank you Madelaine..

for the nice words and hugs and wishes..they mean a lot right now.

thank you <3

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

i would love to stay and respond to these..but i will have to do it another day..i had gotten a call earlier that someone in the family is not doing so well and so i have to end my part in this discussion for now..

just want to thank you guys for your input..

i just came home to shower and i am going back over there..i just didn't want to leave anyone hanging if they had responsed to me..

just want to say it has been interesting and thank you..

 

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~hugggzzzzz~~ ~     ~ Ceka .. best wishes hon :heart:

Jeanne

 

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Thank you Jeanne..

i will carry your hugs and wishes with me today.

thank you <3

 

[Boudicca Littlebird]

[nikita Jefferson]

I agree, land tier is high, and to have land and put a shop on is'nt worth it anymore because too many shop on MP,

Anyway that being said, i'm sure you will think twice before speaking your mind on here again, not that i am giving you any advise,i read your post then read the following ones and saw you were being jumped upon by most, very negatively .

I have all but given up posting any thoughts on here,i got sick and tired of people's negative comments, it's ok to disagree but many do it in an insulting way.,They even insult the way you say something.

I understand what you are saying and i agree, it's just too bad other worlds are not as advanced a SL,land is much cheaper with 3 times the prims

 

[solstyse]

Wow. So many interesting debates on a single thread. Economics... Old vs new....

Jeanne, there is nothing more fun for me than disagreeing with you. you express youself well, and intellectual debates are fun. But we seem to agree that capitalism is not reality. Corportism I think is the word you used for it? We need to stop agreeing if this thread is going to continue. lol.

Economics: There is no pure model in existance that we can see. "Toy capitalism" was used to refer to sl. That's correct. but while tier prices are high, they are dictated by supply and demand.Every price on the marketplace is set by the creator. Ther is far more equality in SL than there is in rl, opportunity-wise. There is less of the above mentioned "corporatism" because there are so many individual creators. And unlike the US economy, there is a far fairer playing field.

Ecology: Often times, the "environmentally responsible" thing to do is actually more harmful than the irresponsible thing to do. As for the relationship between weak economies and the environment, one needs to only compare third world to developed nations to see the difference. One can also look at the overall effect of any given initiative to see that environmentalism is nothing but another tool of marketing. Ethanol is supposed to be a way to decrease automotive emmissions withing the US. But the return rate of ethanol is roughly 1 gallon of diesel burned over the course of it's production to produce and distribute how much ethanol? one gallon. That's it. The problem is that ethanol is not kept to where it would be both economically and enviromentally beneficial. Instead, it is mandated by federal law that itt be dispersed countrywide,making it both economically and environmentally malicious. The problem is that it is a solvent, while the gasoline it is miked with is petroleum. Commercialized farming requires heavy farming equipment which is powered by diesel. And then it cannot travel through the pipelines. Petroleums tend break down into varnish. Varnish clings to metal. Solvents break down tarnish. Think of cholesterol on the human artery, and what would happen to a person if all that built up cholesterol was to seperate from the artery at once. Yep, clots, clogs, strokes, etc. Same would happen to the pipelines. This means that once the ethanol is produced, it can only be transported by tanker to the refineries that mix it with the gasoline. This further is complicated by the fact that alcohol (ethanol) tends to react with moisture much quicker than gas, and contains far further british thermal units per unit of measure. A car running on pure gasoline will actually travel more miles per gallon than one using ethanol. Consider the tradeoff mentioned above, that production of one gallon of ethanol requires one gallon of diesel, and combining that with the comon knowledge that a diesel engine gets many more mpg's than a gasoline engine. Add to that formula that the US has multiple formulations for diesel, and the diesel which gets used in the production of ethanol is the "off highway" blend (much higher in sulphur content). net effect of environmentalism? Taht more pollutants are released into the atmosphere and more btu's consumed, meaning more liquid fuel just for that warm and fuzzy feeling that a tailpipe is emmitting fewer ppm (parts per million)  than it would on a pure petroleum mix. Furthermore, if you compare a car like the Toyota Prius to... Oh, say, a Hummer H1... The prduction of a prius is so energy heavy, that the manufacturing process would actually take more resources than the Hummer going from ore, through the manufacturing process, being driven a quarter million miles, and then rotting away to match.

A country witha  weak economy is not one with citizens who do not generate trash. It is one with citizens who live IN trash. The fall of any single country will not save the environment.  There is the whole arguement of colonialism, imperialsim, the "anti" of both, etc. involved here. Jeanne, I will agree with you that if EVERY country went back to living off the land, we'd be better off. Unfortunately for all of us, that would mean no more sl. And on top of that, I think that the human population has grown to the point of no return. We are now fully dependant on farmers to grow our food. They in turn are fully dependant on scientifically developed seeds and methods to grow enough for us all. In America for instance, if our lifestyle was based more on the native lifestyle than the european lifestyel, we would be better off.

I often wonder, culturally speaking, exactly what it is that we're doing to ourselves. We go to school from the age of five, sometimes younger, to at least 18. Often into our twenties. From there, straight to work. If we went to college, then we have student loans to pay off. If not, we just get a job. We stay there until our 60's or 70's. Not in one job, like our grandparents did. But in many jobs. We do this knowing that nomatter how much we make, there is some **bleep** who makes more than 360 TIMES what the average worker for his/her company does. (Yes, that is the true disparity between a CEO and the average worker.) Back in the eighties, it was more like 40 times what the average worker makes. Sooo. we get all this education (12 years minimum) for the sole purpose of benefitting someone else.  Someone who makes in a day almost as much as we make in a year.

Military: I know people who have succeeded and people who have been had by this strategy. What did they all have in common? Lack of private sector opportunity. I know someone who failed college, but then joined the Navy. He is now a very successful nuclear engineer, who was recruited by the corporation who now hired him before his military contract was over. (they agreed to wait for him and hold his spot until his obligation to the country was over.) And I have comforted friends who cried on my shoulder, "I'll give my life to protect you. my friends, and my family, but I don't want to go for this. This has nothing to do wtih us.  If I go, and I get killed, it's all for nothing." And there is another kind of person I know. There are people who have passed the mental tests, and even the physical, but failed the medical examiner's scrutiny. I personally know someone who tried to enlist, was turned down because his medical record showed a certain metal piece in his body after passing every mental and physical test the military had, and later, was innundated with phone calls from recruiters. He turned them down. He explained this to me. ":I was all for joining for a mission. I told the recruiters the same thing. I felt like I was joining to do something, but after the war tok a turn, it all turned to nothing."He was referring to that moment when the United States turned from hunting down Osama Bin Laden to the decision to invade Iraq. These are two of the three ways that governments get people to enlist. One is lack of opportunity, one is sense of mission or duty, and the third is compulsory. Honestly, regardless of how you feel about the military or it's actions, it's members are people too, who joined for reasons that are usualy not "Yeah! I get to kill people!" So Jeanne, I disagree with you about people who enlist. I know enough people who have to see what they go through.

[Ceka Cianci]

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

I quickly skimmed the posts since I was last in this thread and I'll have to disagree about the quality of current things. I'd much rather drive a modern car than anything built when I was a kid in the 70s. The quality of the sheet steel used in modern cars is much higher than 40 years go, both for strength (allowing cars to get lighter) and corrosion resistance. Engine manufacturing tolerances are much tighter now, resulting in greater lifetime and higher efficiency. Modern cars are far safer. I'd not want to get in an accident with something that had no seatbelts, no airbags, a steering wheel that would impale me and an engine and transmission that enter the cabin on impact.

My Father was adept at fixing his cars (he had to be, they were always breaking). I'm not. But that's fine. My first car was Dad's 1965 VW, which was never driven in winter, until I got it in 1989. It lasted one year, with a lot of help from Dad, after which I got a Ford Escort which I drove for 16 years and 275,000 miles. I'm now over 100,000 miles on my Ford Focus. Neither of those Fords had any maintenance other than the routine gas/oil/tires and on the Escort, brake pads. Dad never had a car that worked as well until he bought a Honda Accord in the 90s. He would roll his eyes when people said "They don't make cars like they used to" and say "Thank goodness!".

 

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((ETA: ok this turned out to be about a zillion times longer than i wanted it to be..hehehehe))

 

i would like to just say that i don't really look at things with rosie glasses..i really never have..i'm pretty confident that i can see the differences in things before i go saying something..i have a lot more view of things in this area than a lot of people..because it's my living hehehe

and i never said they didn't always make crap..i was just saying the economy was better..a lot has to with people working in all levels of society.not just part of them..we can compare unemployment now to then if anyone would like?or even cost of living..

the quality is not better..the technology is what is better..

there really is not much steel used in cars today..

i work for one of the largest car parts manufacturing companies in the world..

about the only steel you have on cars nowadays is the frame and the shell..

they are not better materials they are cheaper materials..

don't let people sell you on that..drop an aluminum block and drop a steel block and lets see which one will still work..

tempered steel in a hail storm vs older steel..you can repair the older..but the tempered ones out of shape always out of shape..

one rule at our plant is..if a part touches the ground it has to be tossed out..

because they are so fragile..if one tiny little nipple on the block chips off..it's garbage..

apply the technology today to the materials used back when stronger materials were used and you would have one hell of a car..

my father also has a full auto and tractor trailer and machinery shop..

he works on cars and trucks and semis and heavy machinery..

at one time we had full staff of mechanics..these guys were always talking about this dream car they wanted to make..lets take this from today and put it on this car..

they had some really nice cars hehehehe

i used to work in the office there as well..

the labor spent on a new car more times than not is way longer..and the cost..omg!1 lol

imagine  bumping and breaking a headlight and the cover on a newer car..to replace it..you are looking at anywhere from 400.00 to 600.to 800 dollars..

unless you want to try to find one in good shape in a junkyard..10 bucks still for an older headlight..

a lot of those fears you have from older cars would not be if we had the technology of today back then..

the reason your father could work on his cars back then was because he didn't have to have a shop like my father does today to work on them..just a basic tuneup would have been out of his reach unless he felt like moving the whole motor forward just enough to get to the back plugs..

just the data system you have to keep paying for to use the system for recalls and glitches and new problems is expensive..

we have all the computers for everything to work on just about any car you can think of..

and they did have a lot of the technology back then for a lot of things.but they were just on the nicer cars that were out of reach..unless you were rich..

i'll put an 87 jag that we rebuilt up against this Mazda that someone is talking about any day of the week hehehe 

where i live you still see a lot of older cars..because they don't rust..and also because the parts are still available..gremlins and AMC eagles and Pacers and Pintos and Vega's and maverick's and quite a few love bugs..even love bug vans and a bunch more that people called junk..a lot of them beaters but still going..

one man has over 700,00 on his 1975 Chevy Nova..

there are three shops in our town that sells older cars brought back to brand new..

at any given time there are at least 15 older cars in those shops and all bays with cars brought in to get refurbished..like new carpet or the top or just repainted.

this is a town of only about 20,000 people..

you should see the sonic on a Saturday night or the square..

it's not that these people took extra extra care of their cars..it's that they just did what they were supposed to do with a car..stick to the maintenance..fix something if it breaks..

and if something broke .well you could replace it and it be worth replacing because you still had a car worth putting it in..

because parts are rebuilt for those older years..where you can't really rebuild a lot of those today..you just toss them out and get a new part at what ever crazy price that is..

and a lot of times you won't find those parts in a junk yard when they first started to go majorly aluminum..because they have been nabbed up already by people that have had problems..

so the stock of older parts is pretty much going away for those while you can still get the parts for cars older than them when they were steel made motors and parts..

as far as safety..these cars nowadays have their problems also..but they never seem to last too long in a demolition derby like those old cars do that keep showing up that have somehow vanished over the years..

they are still out there..they are just not being driven because gas prices more than anything..

in my town it's common to see older cars from a lot of different decades..because in a small town..it wasn't policy to switch out every three years..people bought cars back then as a one time purchase  like a house..

you had a truck and the family car..ok now that that is out of the way lets get this..

people switching out every three years was just those people that wanted to stay up with everyone else ..because they couldn't have the oldest car on the block..or they just felt like doing the switch..it wasn't because they had to..

now that was cars..i could do the same with trucks and with machinery and farm tractors and all the things like that that my father see's come into his shop..all these have long long history..

i hear people saying this car went from my father to me to my son..

i hear stories from these owners that go deeper than that..

i'm not even a car person..i don't work on them or anything..that is my husbands job or my fathers..i just take my jeep in to the shop and tell them to do whatever needs doing to it..

oh that is another great automobile..

you can take one of those older 1940 something Willies and pretty much put anything jeep in them and they are off and running..we have one of those and a few wranglers..mine is 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee limited edition..

95 to 2000.that was a really good era for cars as well..

my dad said they had to stop making the Chevy Lumina the way they did..because it was just too good of a running car hehehe

so you didn't see a 2002 lumina..i'm sure it was to change over for other models..but that is just his way of saying..it was a great car..he likes a lot of the cars in that time period..that's why he found me my jeep in that era..even though i wanted an older Scout..hehehehe

but  you can take just about any era of a jeep or willie and put it up against anything like it on and off the road..

i can do 25 miles an hour on rough road in the mountains in any one of our jeeps or willie and those nice 4x4's of today have to do 3 to 5 miles an hour because they are so big and can't handle the bumps.where i used to beat them home for lunch by a whole 20 minutes hehehehe

they stopped making fun of my jeep after awhile..thinking a girl can run  those mountains better than them hehe

really my best ride is my horses..i'll take riding them over driving anything any day of the week if i could hehehe

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

By nearly every objective metric (spatial resolution, color rendition accuracy, brightness, motion artifact, lifespan, etc.) a good quality LCD television is better than a CRT, and certainly better than most of the cameras which record the imagery (what's the point of having a playback device that outperforms the recorder?). I've never owned a TV, so I haven't much direct experience with their reliability (other than seeing my neighbor tune her old TV with a pair of pliers, which Dad said was common practice, because the knobs often broke off), but I do work in the electronics industry and I know that the reliability of modern technology is better than ever. This doesn't mean you won't find junk on the market. We've always had junk on the market, but it doesn't survive long enough to be around to evoke fond memories.

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i'm just gonna say the same thing i guess..apply the technoligy from today in to the better materials and it will be worth repairing..

i am really not a TV fan myself..this is my first flat screen monitor and my first flat screen tv..i will say..the tv has almost too good of a picture..

i can see the blemishes on everyone faces if i turn it up..and if you have the settings too good..it makes everything look like it is in the studio..

we had to cut it back some just to get that studio soap opera lighting look..

i mean that says something for technology when you have to cut it back some heheheh

but when it breaks..it's gonna have to either go in the shop or just be thrown out..it's usually not something worth repairing.unless it is just a circuit board..

but heck i'm not gonna take it in..it's huge!! \o/ and tv repair guys don't make house calls anymore hehehe

but we still have a milk man here hehehe that is really really nice to have.. =)

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

As for losing manufacturing jobs overseas, that's been happening for a very long time. Japan eclipsed the US in shipbuilding long ago. Then Korea eclipsed Japan. China's goal is to eclipse Korea by 2015. But we survived the loss of shipbuilding by moving up to more sophisticated manufacturing which required more skilled labor. Now we're losing that too. But while we're lamenting the loss of manufacturing jobs to Chinese laborers, Terry Gou, CEO of Foxconn (the world's largest contract electronics manufacturer) has pledged to increase the number of robots used on his production lines from the current 10,000 to over a million within three years. That will surely toss thousands of Chinese laborers out of their jobs.

Do we really want to work under the conditions of those Chinese laborers, with the worry of robots looming over us? If we don't, then I think we have to understand where people can bring value on this planet and educate ourselves to offer that value. And there's the problem, we're not educating ourselves to compete. The future belongs to those who speak the language of progress, which isn't English, as we like to believe. It's math and science.

I understand the faux nostalgia we have for "simpler times", but it is colored by our natural inclination to forget bad things and remember good things. The past wasn't as rosy as we remember.

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the thing is we never had to be number one in manufacturing..we just had to have enough to keep people working..

not being number one to not having it at all is gonna kill off half the work force..

see what happens is now you can't get everyone educated for jobs to change direction..because with manufacturing gone..those people that cannot afford to send their kids to school..

the people that for what ever reason cannot go to school after high school

 

there are over a million jobs right now just sitting there with nobody able to fill them..because  they can't pay for a 4 year degree..

because now mom and dad are working two jobs just to keep the house going..

see you can't just say..ok we need a new direction and this is what everyone has to do..become educated..

that costs money..and also not everyone can get that educated for a lot of reason..

if we cut out the roots of the tree..the tree is gonna die..and all those branches from it will die also..

we don't cut out manufacturing.we keep it and still change direction..we keep everyone working rather than half being carried because we decided the direction doesn't need them anymore..

this whole having to be number one has this country not only wanting to be number one in the world.but each trying to be number one over each other..

rather than working together to get a strong all level flourishing economy..

i'm just gonna touch back on this part..because it's showing cost of living before the crash..and what those jobs could do in a good economy..

my grandfather worked for a steel manufacturing plant back in 1972..he was making around 30,000 a year..

in 1972 he bought a brand new built by order home in this subdivision..he paid 30,000 for his brand new home..a nice 4 bedroom tri level home..

in 2004 he sold it for close to 400,000..just in time before the crash..he had added a couple of editions to it and did a lot of work on it over the years..so it was really nice home when he was done..

at that time just around the corner..new stick homes were being made  in the new subdivision and were going for about 300,000..

these homes are crap hehehe slap together houses..

there were at that time no manufacturing jobs close to making 300,000 a year..

after the crash a lot of those jobs took pay hits and loss of retirement because of 401k's being on the market..if they still had jobs..

right now on avg..they are making about 20 to 25,000 a year if that..

how can someone send someone to school to be educated for a new direction in this country on that kind of wage?

half the country is about unemployed or on some sort of benefits..

we are showing about 8.3 i think the last reading was for unemployment..then you have all those that haven't found a job not in those numbers.. but are now off those benefits and now on welfare..maybe 1/4 to 1/3 retiring because it's still baby boomer season for that..

we are at about the highest in history for unemployment right now..

we don't need a new direction..we need people back at work..otherwise they will just fall into the system and stop looking for work and live on benefits..

we need people to be able to send their kids back to college again..but that is going to take a good economy for that to happen..and that is not gonna happen when half th work force is sitting at home in poverty or right on that light fighting to stay out of it..

my family used to live way under that poverty line..i mean being broke would have been a nice life..

having nothing would have been something LOL

but my father stuck it out and built up and made a life for us..then when he got ahead he started to pull the rest of our family out until we were all living nice lives..

right now we have land that if you started to walk from one side of our ranch to the other..and you started in the morning..it would be dark by the time you got to the other side..

and we have still around 100 horses and about 50 head of cattle and all his shops..

i had to help while i was going to school when i was 13 i was getting out of school early going to the office learning things..then over time we grew and more and more family started showing up and making things easier to grow even more..

i don't just say we need to start working together as a country..i've seen results of what happens when people do work together rather than against each other..

new direction will only work if everyone benefits from it..not just half..new direction should be something that enhances the country..not cuts off part of the roots..

sooner or later the tree is gonna die and only the few will be standing..the rich..

we need the whole body..not just the head to be strong..

and we don't need to be number one in the world to be something great again...we just have to be a part of it..

those robots that you hear about in china..they are here now..but there are still so many jobs that manufacturing needs that it would be worth bringing it back....

we have robots that are taking our die-casting jobs at the plant..but you still have to have parts hand worked..they won't be filling that spot with robots any time soon..because they would never be able to spot out the bad parts..if they could they wouldn't be throwing bad parts on the line..

plus those die-casters are switching over to working the robots and improving their education by doing that..so rather than being die-casters..now they are robotic technicians lol

and that is a pay increase..

heck i even know how to work the robots..i get to see all the manuals and get familiar with things..it's not like i am working that hard at 3 in the morning all by myself in the office..have to have something to read hehehe..

 

 

 

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

When I was little - about five or six - I was very into cars. We lived near a church so Sunday mornings the streets around my house had various cars parked all up and down and I'd go out walking to take a look at them. At the time, about 1970...

(My SL avatar looks up at me. "Gosh, you're old...")

(Yes, I am, Theresa. Be quiet. Anyway...)

At the time, about 1970, a ten-year old car was like something from Mars. Most people traded in their cars every three years and warranties were 1 year. Now, I drive a 10 year old car with over 100,000 miles on it and it's not even a particularly great car, just a pretty average one.  You see ten, fifteen, twenty year old cars every day and nobody thinks anything about it.

Throughout history, 90% of things were and are crap. However, when we look back in time the historical crap is long gone and forgotten and we only remember the 10% of things that  were actually done well while we see the crappy 90% of the current world and think about how much better things were back then.

---

that will happen if you live in an area where elements will wear them out faster or people just change them out every three years for the heck of it..

it sure wasn't because they were not made good enough to last...

sure there was crap..but not as much crap as we have today..look at all thi crap we have today..

i could go back 15 years and not see as much as we have today..

worst crap ever that gets into everything..Mcdonalds happy meal toys LOL

 

the more the economy weakens the more crap we have to have ..because that is how you get those that are making less to spend their money on things that they cannot afford..so crappy versions are made..

that is just how it has always been..you need a version for every level to hit the whole market..

that is in just about anything..heating units and cars and appliances..

in a better economy..i'll argue any day that there was less crap bought..because people could afford the better things..

they didn't have to settle for crap or less hehehe

 

cars depend a lot of the state you live in as well..

take Illinois or better yet just chicago  for instance..how many pot holes does it take to get the front tire  to blow out?

let alone wreck the front end and anything else it is shaking apart..like exhaust..

cars won't last a 1/4 or less of the time as ones in Tennessee..we just have really nice roads..even our country roads are worked on..where up in Illinois where all the roads suck everywhere.. that is just how things are done to keep those jobs..take forever on the roads so that by the time you are done..you have to start over..

our road jobs here..we get pissed if they take longer than two years for the major ones..and the landscaping gets included hehehe

you never knew they were there..

 

 

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

When I was little - about five or six - I was very into cars. We lived near a church so Sunday mornings the streets around my house had various cars parked all up and down and I'd go out walking to take a look at them. At the time, about 1970...

(My SL avatar looks up at me. "Gosh, you're old...")

(Yes, I am, Theresa. Be quiet. Anyway...)

At the time, about 1970, a ten-year old car was like something from Mars. Most people traded in their cars every three years and warranties were 1 year. Now, I drive a 10 year old car with over 100,000 miles on it and it's not even a particularly great car, just a pretty average one.  You see ten, fifteen, twenty year old cars every day and nobody thinks anything about it.

Throughout history, 90% of things were and are crap. However, when we look back in time the historical crap is long gone and forgotten and we only remember the 10% of things that  were actually done well while we see the crappy 90% of the current world and think about how much better things were back then.

---

 

You are so right. I was going to say something about that myself. I got my first car at about that time—in my state you could get a driver's license at the age of five ;-)—: it was 12 years old. Had only about 30,000 miles because the old guy who owned it was a postman who used it for nothing but driving to and from work. But the point is that it was remarkably old to be still on the road. My friends were all astounded that it looked so good for such an oldie. "Wow! Concours d'Elegance!". I remember thinking often as I looked around at the cars around me on the highway that I was driving the oldest car out there.

I love the cars from the old days. They were well built. They had great steel. But modern cars require much less maintenance, last much longer, and oh by the way are about a zillion times better to drive. Try doing some brisk cornering on a less than beautifully surfaced road sometime. It would be a treat to do that in, say, a well tuned '66 Malibu, but unless there were a lot of straight sections you'd get your doors blown off by a Mazda 3. 

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when i get my 76 corvette .i'll take you up on that mazda 3 challenge  hehehe

loser gets to buy the drinks..

oh crap..i forgot!!  i don't drink..we'll have to make it something else

well i guess i could start drinking hehehehe

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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i agree Ceka .. planned obsolescence is 1uv the fundamental flaws of capitalism .. but its an inevitable development .. having to buy the same thing over & over again cuz its cheap & breaks & cant be fixed generates more profit for the sociopathic corporation .. corporate greed pigs dont care how much damage they do to ppls lives or to the environment .. they only care about enriching themselves @ the expense of every1 & everything else .. its simply an evil system based on greed

Jeanne

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Capitalism is the one system that frees people from poverty.  It's the system that's given women the opportunity for economic parity with men.  It's the system that has raised the standard of living for the entire world.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Yet you continue to spew this nonsense.   Either completely unaware of economics and history, or you have a serious agenda here to undermine those who like SL and that want to be here. 

You insult the other SL residents.  You insult those who risked their own money to start companies where you play.  You insult anyone and everyone who owns company stocks, and who wants to make money. 

You spend hours here trolling people and peddling your agenda like a broken record.  

Do you work in RL?  Or is this your job?  To deliberately try and undermine a particular company?  Because, there's not too many other places where you'd be allowed to spout the kind of propaganda directed to a companies customers' that you do here.  

 

 

 

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i would just like to say that i don't believe every corporation is ebil hehehe

 

 

or that every corp is strong or bad for the econemy..

LL sure isn't one that falls into that catagory at all..

it's a service and really not something that is a need depended on..

and they don't control all the other virtual worlds or pricing..

i think they are a better example of a good corporation..

they are caught up in the econemy and it's problems just like the rest of us..their state is gonna dictate a lot of their costs..and right now California is not doing so well

that is not LL's fault..i mean they are doing what a corp should do..they are actually bringing in income from other countries to this country..

that is a major benefit to a state and to the country...

 

when a corp is about bleeding everything dry and not caring about crapping where it sleeps in the name of profit..and monopolies..that's where it becomes dog eat dog..and they become more damage than benefit..

 

 

 

 

[solstyse]

when a corp is about bleeding everything dry and not caring about crapping where it sleeps in the name of profit..and monopolies..that's where it becomes dog eat dog..and they become more damage than benefit..

I agree with this completely. There is nothing wrong with businesses making some money. What IS wrong is how much of the average corporation goes to pay its people at the tom. The average CEO used to make 40 times what the average worker did. Now, it's more like 360 times what the productive worker did. And often, these CEO's have no personal stake in the company anymore, like they used to when the wage discrepency was 1/9 of what it is now.

And that only accounts for the wage difference here in America. think about how much of our manufacturing has gone to Mexico. And we STILL have Mexicans wanting to come to America because working less than the Americans get paid makes them feel rich!

There is enough out there in the world that everyone can live comfortably. The problem is that within a single company, there are people who think they are valuable enough to bring as much pay home each day as someone who works for them brings home in a year, and that **bleep** is still spending all his time searching for a cheaper workforce.

[Dillon Levenque]

 

 

Vette? Who said anything about Vettes? I was talking Malibu!

Just because I think you'll get a kick out of it: I did once drive a friend's well-restored '65 Stingray (the car Zora Arkus-Duntov famously described as having "just enough lift to be a bad airplane") into which he'd dropped a tuned-to-death 454. At 70 mph on the freeway in 4th gear you could floor it and spin the wheels. I did that.

Much more to the point of some of the things you've been saying. It's not all the corporations and the countries and the consumers. I read an article not long ago about jobs going begging: well paying jobs, too. In this case the openings were all for machinists or mechanical techs, but the trend is the same.

There aren't any kids looking to work in manufacturing. We keep telling them they need to go to college and be whatever. Maybe not. Maybe Mom & Dad should stop worrying that their kid won't Succeed By Six and just help them along. There's a lot to be said for doing something you like and getting paid for it.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

 

 

Vette? Who said anything about Vettes? I was talking Malibu!

Just because I think you'll get a kick out of it: I did once drive a friend's well-restored '65 Stingray (the car Zora Arkus-Duntov famously described as having "just enough lift to be a bad airplane") into which he'd dropped a tuned-to-death 454. At 70 mph on the freeway in 4th gear you could floor it and spin the wheels. I did that.

Much more to the point of some of the things you've been saying. It's not all the corporations and the countries and the consumers. I read an article not long ago about jobs going begging: well paying jobs, too. In this case the openings were all for machinists or mechanical techs, but the trend is the same.

There aren't any kids looking to work in manufacturing. We keep telling them they need to go to college and be whatever. Maybe not. Maybe Mom & Dad should stop worrying that their kid won't Succeed By Six and just help them along. There's a lot to be said for doing something you like and getting paid for it.

---

oh heheh i was just playing about the vette thing..it was more about drinks than anything hehehe

as far as the manufactoring..that wasn't ment for people with choices..not kids coming out of school to follow dad or mom at the plant..

it was more about the peoplethat don't really have the options..

some go to the military as a choice because their options are not as great as others..and some work in plants or factories..

 those jobs help them give their kids the choice of dreams..

you had at one point two ways to really get educated at something..on the job training or college..

those are both getting harder and harder to make happen..

i'm all for kids becoming what they want..as long as they are happy with that choice and don't regret  their life..

that would suck for them..

but a lot of kids don't get the choice for doing what they want..look at just basic education in america today..

how many just get passed through the system because they are learning to take a test rather than learning a lot of what they should be learning for lessons in life..

teachers are in fear because of every child being able to pass the same test rather than being able to give the lessons they want to teach..

look how much of their salaries go back into supplies for the kids because the school system leaves them short..

some classrooms with 40 kids in them a teacher and teachers assistant..

 

and really ..i think the problem is thier are parents that don't worry about what their kids are going to do with their life until it is too late..

i'm sure many would wish to have the time to be worried about what they are going to want to be when they grow up..

but right now they are too busy trying to keep ends met and not able to spend that kind of time..

to the point that school is more  a baby sitter than a learning place..

i know when i have my kids..i look forward to their dreams..and i hope i am fortunate enough to be able to help them with a boost off to whatever they want..i sure don't want them doing something because it is something i wanted them to do..they won't be happy with that unless they love the same things..

as far as kids working in plants out of school..

half of our plant is filled with kids that have just came out of high school or a couple of years out and are going to school plus working here to help pay for their education..

it doesn't have to be a career choice for them..but it sure beats having to work two shifts at McDonald hehehe

i mean a 2,000 bonus in march is a pretty good  boost in some college books..we get  a bonus every three months here..and a big one in march..

but we are more of the more fortunate plants as far as working all the time..

so they do go to those jobs..they just don't keep them forever..where some end up keeping them because they are pretty much stuck at that level..

they are needed i think anyways..

 

 

 ETA: bleh i keep editing because i see my space bar is still acting up hehehe

 

[Ceka Cianci]

here is the kind of thing i am talking about that needs to go..

they are going on about mitt but that is not what i am talking about..

this is how a lot of bad corps can hurt a country..

there are good corps but  there are some really bad ones as well..

i'm not a howerd stern fan or republican or democrat..i'm still not really sure where i am going to vote..

i just listened to how he explained the bain company and he is pretty much hitting it there..as for the rest ..well i just sorted out the things from the political for the information hehehe

anyways this is the kind of thing that is hurting this country..