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Aethelwine

Sim Crossings

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I bought a boat and got myself a parcel with water access to the blake sea a couple of months ago. Not once have I managed to sail there. I made it three quarters of the way once before crashing.

Today it took me nearly 5 mins to get out of the harbour across the sim boundary and then struggled over a couple of sim crossings before crashing. I have tried to fly back to where i started thinking it possible i might find my yacht to get back in or at least retrieve it so as not to be littering the place and in a no scripted outfit I have crashed twice trying to cross boundaries.

The problem just seems to get worse and worse.

I can't be the only one suffering these problems? Is this something to do with pathfinding and Magnum servers or something?

When will Sim crossings get better?

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JeanneAnne wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

some assumptions went into that estimate & i dont know how reasonable those assumptions were ..<snip>

overall operating expenses would be reduced when bloated corporate salaries & shareholder dividend payments were eliminated 

Jeanne

 

What assumptions did you make about "bloated corporate salaries & shareholder dividend payments" that Linden Research may or may not be paying?    I don't think that information is publicly available.   When do you say they last paid a dividend to shareholders and how large was it?   

why isnt this information publically available? what are they hiding ??

the assumptions i referred to have to do with how many residents & players would buy into a user owned cooperative .. how many we would have to divide operating expenses between .. what percentage of concurrent players would contribute .. things like that

Jeanne

LL is a privately owned company.  As such, they have no obligation to share company information with the public.

I've worked off and on for my mother's company (which is privately owned by her and her business partner) and she doesn't even share all the details with her own family members.  Nor, should she have to.   Privately owned means just that...private.

If you want to contact LL and make an offer to buy the company, and if your offer is serious, then perhaps they would share information with you.

If you want to start a user owned Co-Op type virtual world, then Open Sim, would be the place to do it.   There are already several co-op type grid arrangements out there...I belong to a Sci-Fi grid which operates under a similar umbrella group.

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I too recently moved to a parcel near Blake Sea.   I both fly and sail and have occasional problems with border crossings.

The first thing you need to look at is your script count.   Naturally, all vehicles have scripts inside them.  Some have additional HUDs to operate the vehicles.   There's not much you can do about those so it comes down to the scripted items you are wearing.  

I try to keep the script count of worn items below 75 under everyday circumstances.  But for sailing or flying, I have specific outfits I wear that reduce that below 12.   It makes all the difference in the world when crossing sim borders.  

I have a little a script scale to measure what the script count that I place right next to my pier to check before I get on the boat.   You can get one free at:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Weight-Scale-Script-Counter/1835786

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That is one of things I learnt first about sailing, that and not crossing corners.

My script count today is just 4 and still having major problems.

Since making my post I have crashed 4 times crossing sim borders without a boat. That is a 100% failure rate.

Ironically the region is dire straits, seems apt lol

I am using the MLCC yacht that is well thought of everywhere i have seen comments on it, so don't think the boat or my avatar can be the issue.

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Aethelwine wrote:

I bought a boat and got myself a parcel with water access to the blake sea a couple of months ago. Not once have I managed to sail there. I made it three quarters of the way once before crashing.

Today it took me nearly 5 mins to get out of the harbour across the sim boundary and then struggled over a couple of sim crossings before crashing. I have tried to fly back to where i started thinking it possible i might find my yacht to get back in or at least retrieve it so as not to be littering the place and in a no scripted outfit I have crashed twice trying to cross boundaries.

The problem just seems to get worse and worse.

I can't be the only one suffering these problems? Is this something to do with pathfinding and Magnum servers or something?

When will Sim crossings get better?

i belong to a sailing club & have a sailboat that was given to me .. i dont even bother sailing it cuz every time the club goes out i read in group chat all about how horrible sim crossings are & how many times everyone is crashing .. so i just go to the dance parties afterwards .. many who try to sail end up just giving up & tping to the party anyway

Jeanne

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:


Aethelwine wrote:

I bought a boat and got myself a parcel with water access to the blake sea a couple of months ago. Not once have I managed to sail there. I made it three quarters of the way once before crashing.

Today it took me nearly 5 mins to get out of the harbour across the sim boundary and then struggled over a couple of sim crossings before crashing. I have tried to fly back to where i started thinking it possible i might find my yacht to get back in or at least retrieve it so as not to be littering the place and in a no scripted outfit I have crashed twice trying to cross boundaries.

The problem just seems to get worse and worse.

I can't be the only one suffering these problems? Is this something to do with pathfinding and Magnum servers or something?

When will Sim crossings get better?

i belong to a sailing club & have a sailboat that was given to me .. i dont even bother sailing it cuz every time the club goes out i read in group chat all about how horrible sim crossings are & how many times everyone is crashing .. so i just go to the dance parties afterwards .. many who try to sail end up just giving up & tping to the party anyway

Jeanne

 

I have heard that after the introduction of pathfinding, this was when the major problems started. An admin on the estate sims can disable pathfinding I believe and this improves things a bit for sim crossing. However, since LL is the admin for Mainland sims, and since the Blake Sea sims are Mainland sims, I doubt any Linden Lab employee is going to disable pathfinding on those sims. It is a shame, but this IS Second Life, is it not?

 

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I have heard that after the introduction of pathfinding, this was when the major problems started. An admin on the estate sims can disable pathfinding I believe and this improves things a bit for sim crossing. However, since LL is the admin for Mainland sims, and since the Blake Sea sims are Mainland sims, I doubt any Linden Lab employee is going to disable pathfinding on those sims. It is a shame, but this IS Second Life, is it not?

 

The big problem was being flooded with unnecessary messages from adjacent sims, causing bandwidth to spike and often major packet loss. The problem rolled out at the same time as pathfinding did but it wasn't directly related to it and turning pathfinding on or off didn't make a difference. It was corrected in todays' server updates.

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/waves to Aethel

This is from a real small sample size (my one long trip) but I did manage to do a lot of water travel without much in the way of sim border blues. I got the crazy idea of finding an all water route from Nautilus to Corsica. I have a little twin outboard I bought for 50 L and thought I'd give it a try.

I'd been pre-warned so I took care with scripts, but as it happened I had almost no trouble. I of course was in the Blake Sea to start, and I took care to stay in very open areas, but I pretty much just bombed north for miles. About all I did, besides avoiding islands and other boats, was back off on the throttle at the crossings. Now and then I got bumped around a little but I never lost the boat.

I know that is only one example, but I thought I'd throw it in. I never came close to finishing—massive understimate of the time needed—but I had a lot of fun. I kept hitting private regions and/or reefs and getting pushed off course but even so I covered a lot of territory. I can say for certain it was far less troublesome than a long drive on mainland road as regards sim crossings.

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You should find things much better after today's server updates. I found flying very easy today and motorcycle travel was tolerable despite my motorcycle being a notoriously bad sim-crosser. The two big problems are still are hitting full parcels when you're trying to cross a border and hitting ban lines.

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In addition to the excellent advice offered by Lynda, from my experience these things also matter:

The size of your boat -  The longer the boat the rougher the crossing since you spend more time in the no mans land between sims with a shorter boat.. 

Speed - Slow down a bit as you cross sim lines and you are less apt to crash or have the weird effects.

The brand of boat -, due to the design of the boat and the expertise of the scripter. My partner and I between us have been in SL 13+ years and over that time tried most of the brands.  We found one recently that is the best we've ever had for being able to cross sims with a minimum of flying or deep diving and only a rare crash.  Sometimes we can sail for a whole day without incident if we take the sim crossings easy.

 

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/me Waves back to Dillon

Well I am pleased if this server update is supposed to help this issue, but I am not noticing any improvement.

 Encouraged by responses to this thread I put my bikini and short on and rezzed my yacht again. First attempt to leave the harbour to open sea, I am unseated but not unseated unable to teleport stand up or navigate, eventually sl tells me I am disconnected. I restart and try again. Second time crossing the sim boundary to leave the harbour firestorm closes down and crashes on me. I log back in and yay I am just the other side of the boundary standing on my boat I have made the sim crossing. I sit back on my boat Open sea I make a couple of sim boundary crossing before just losing all control and plowing forward in a straight line on to land and through peoples houses until it finally tells me I have been logged out. I relog in I am back where I was before just outside my harbour but no boat. I go in to fly mode to retrace my steps. And without a boat since then I have done the flying in a straight line uncontrollably before being logged out at each sim boundary.

This outfit has zero scripts. Just 3 items of clothing and some hair and I can't reliably cross a boundary with or without a boat.

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Last week I got the idea to do a little boating trip on the Blake Sea for the first time - and most likely for the last time. I experienced just the same - and it is a SHAME that LL is not able to fix the sim crossing problems for years now. I tried it with the usual tips like reducing script count and speed - didn't really help. But quite honestely: that shouldn't even be necessary! Where is the fun in boating when you have to turn yourself into a naked, hairless, attachment free newbie and have to adapt your speed to invisible lines in the water?

 

As far as I know, in other grids is it possible to have mega regions - lowering the sim crossings dramatically. These were proposed to LL, too - years ago already. And met with resistance "oh we can't do that, it would totally mess up how everyting is set up in SL". Maybe, instead of concentrating on more and more "Nice&Shiny" and advanced projects like pathfinding, LL should concentrate on fixing some of BASIC problems of this world.

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Aethelwine wrote:

...

I sit back on my boat Open sea I make a couple of sim boundary crossing before just losing all control and plowing forward in a straight line on to land and through peoples houses ...

...


Haha! a boat that sails on land & plows thru houses !! i want a boat like that! ;)

sounds like lag tho ...

i have a shark that comes outuv the water & swims on land .. i think i dont have it set properly but i dont want to change it .. a landshark is kinda cool

i have a ray that isnt set properly either .. it flys up outuv the water & dives back in

& my gull flies into the mountain & comes back out in a different place

i like it when things dont work like theyre spozed to .. but are all that much cooler cuzuv it

Jeanne

 

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Wow, it sounds like you have problems not necessarily related to your boat. It would be relatively easy to check that, I think. Have you tried rezzing and using it somewhere else? In case you don't know, Searching for 'Blake Sea rez zone' will give you a list as long as your arm to pick from. Maybe you should try a couple of those spots and see if it makes a difference.

If not, it might be that your issue is related more to your connection or your viewer or your PC or the phase of the moon or any of the other umpteen million things that get in the way.

 

 

ETA: Most of the ones I've tried rez you underwater on the tp so you have to fly, rez, and then land on your boat.

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It sounds like you're doing the right things...keeping the worn scripts down is the first thing. Try keeping the graphics settings down too. I recently found that using Phoenix's "recommended settings" in the graphics preferences has helped a lot.

I wonder if inventory size matters? I've always kept mine just under 20,000 in the belief that it makes crossings easier, but maybe somebody a bit techier can confirm if this has anything to do with it.

Sim crossings have been really smooth for me for the last few months, barring one patchy week about a fortnight ago, when many people seemed to be being hit harder than usual. Mine's a Trudeau NY50, and sails really well now I've had a little practise. (I really really really enjoy sailing...can't help mentioning that....grin)

If your dock is riiight on a sim border, you may like to motor out rather than sail right away, just to get out and over that first  icky crossing.

 

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It is because of the damn useless pathfinding that we are being robbed of our vehicle pleasures! The day pathfinding came out and since it has been a major disaster trying to sail, fly motorbike or even walk sometimes. Mesh was no big help either.

The Lindens keep indroducing silly toys and bells and whistles that only a handfull of people use or want and ruining it for the majority of the users who are content to just enjoy themselves.

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Ziggy..I reckon that rough patch I mentioned has to do with that. Lots of freaky **bleep** happened that week :(

 

hahahha the **bleep** is way more suggestively dirty than what I really said!

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I logged on this morning before work and teleported to one of the Blake Sea rez areas.  I rezzed an amphibious vehicle I have (Cogito Bison) and went out motoring.  I crossed a total of 9 sims with nary a problem.  I wanted to see if I could recreate the crashing problems or region crossing issues you've been experiencing.  I didn't remove any scripted items, so I went out as I normally am (97 scripts running).  Again, I didn't have any problems aside from two split half second pauses as I was moving from one sim to another.  This was at full speed ahead too.  

Maybe this shows the region crossing problem has been "worked on" or "fixed?"

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Marcus Hancroft wrote:

Maybe this shows the region crossing problem has been "worked on" or "fixed?"

Some weeks earlier I was able to cross region borders with a sail boat and motor boat - at full speed - without any crashes. Even crossing borders at and near region corners gave no problems at all. It was a real joy.

Recently things have not been so good,  I've had some bad crossings. Not many though just a few; even today there was one. What happens is that the boat starts to sink, or fly, and it goes on and on never stopping. No way to stop it or control it.  It has happened in Blake Sea and today it happened in North Sea (regions south from Eden sims). I have seen other boats having the same fate.

I sail every single day a lot in different locations. Region crossings have turned a bit worse than what they were few weeks ago. The region crossing problem appears not to be fixed for good even yet.

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One thing to bear in mind is when your boat or other vehicle (or even your avatar) APPEARS to "sink" or "fly" or zip across eight regions of land it's not really doing it. Your viewer is drawing where your boat is using information it gets from the servers but when it doesn't get a position update when it expects one it assumes it keeps going at the same direction and speed it was when it last got an update. When you cross a border you're being handed from one server to another and for a bad crossing that may take several seconds. During that time your viewer keeps merrily drawing you going the same speed and direction and, if you were turning, rising or falling you may see yourself looping or doing a barrel roll.

If you go to the "Develop" menu, select "Network" and turn off "Velocity Interpolate Objects" you'll see what actually happens - your vehicle will stop dead at the border and not start moving until it's established on the next server, where it will continue and start answering your controls again. If the handoff takes too long your viewer might log you out automatically.

There are two other major problems for vehicles - if you hit ban lines of lots with restricted access your vehilcle will stop and be stuck there like a bird hitting a window and if you're trying to cross a border into a lot that doesn't have enough free prims for your vehicle SOMETIMES you'll be unseated and your vehicle will end up in your Lost and Found. That was supposed to be fixed a while ago but still happens fairly often.

There's actually an ongoing project to improve region crossings but it's a very complicated procedure that has to completely change how the transfer from one region to another happens. It's being rolled out in phases - the first phase of the project was a structural one that was put in place earlier this year but wasn't meant to make a noticeable improvement. The second phase is still being worked on - I haven't heard a firm date when it'll be ready for testing though.

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Wow today was an all time worse. Seems we are being taken back to the day of SL 2004.

I had an exploring group inworld which i recently closed because this crap has been going on for so long now that I know it will never be fixed. They just keep adding layer upon layer of unsolved bugs, hiding Jira's and ignoring the residents.

Imagine new people experiencing all this in their first 15 minutes. 0 growth - SL suicide.

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09-13-2012 12:14 AM

It sounds like you're doing the right things...keeping the worn scripts down is the first thing. Try keeping the graphics settings down too. I recently found that using Phoenix's "recommended settings" in the graphics preferences has helped a lot.

I wonder if inventory size matters? I've always kept mine just under 20,000 in the belief that it makes crossings easier, but maybe somebody a bit techier can confirm if this has anything to do with it.

Sim crossings have been really smooth for me for the last few months, barring one patchy week about a fortnight ago, when many people seemed to be being hit harder than usual. Mine's a Trudeau NY50, and sails really well now I've had a little practise. (I really really really enjoy sailing...can't help mentioning that....grin)

If your dock is riiight on a sim border, you may like to motor out rather than sail right away, just to get out and over that first  icky crossing.

------------------------

Intersting thought it might have to do with inventory size. My inventory is 53,000 items... I keep pruning it, but I shop and i build... and well I have a lot of stuff i want to keep.

I always motor out of the harbour, it has never occurred to me to try to sail out. My parcel is to East of blake sea and wind is always blowing from that direction, so I don't always put my sail up at all!


I have just been a passenger on a friends boat on the blake sea. I alone got booted off the boat on one crossing. On another the boat went sailing off into the sky  booting us all off the boat. We maybe made 2 crossings, and each of those was rough.

 

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I totally agree with you, in the nearly five years of being in SL, sims crossing still if not worse than it was all those years ago,what get me ,is we pay for a privilage to buy land next to linden land or road as in my case only find that its a struggle to cross over one sim never mind many,

with todays advancement you would think this has been sorted but alas it has not,   when Lidens wake up and see membership dwindle and landowner give up land and the revernue drop, you have to as why is this,

 

well you need to get SL back to the days when it was stable, drop your pricies in times of resscsion and most of all make SL more playable then us having to spend most of the time fixing,tweaking and re-logging for all the problems that ouccur

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Flying Boat !!_002.png

Haha !! i was given this boat awhile back .. itsa nice one .. very fast & easy to sail .. but its worthless .. cuz it wont cross sim boundaries

i took it out today for the 1st time .. every time it tried to cross sims it either ended up sinking ... or flying !!

here it is spinning in circles in the air @ a sim boundary .. LoL

thers a whole sailing community & this is the best LL can do ?!?

Jeanne

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JeanneAnne wrote:

Flying Boat !!_002.png


One other thing what I have noticed while sailing.  Very often there appears somebody else's boat floating in the air, not moving anywhere.  The minimap shows that the avatar is there too.  Even the viewer radar (Firestorm) tells that the avatar is there.  But mystitool radar shows no avatar.  Well, when you right click on that boat floating in the air.. poof it vanishes, so does the avatar too.  I wonder what causes those ghosts up in the air?

Near airports there are even similar planes floating in the air.  Right click on them and they're gone.  If one stays a long time in one spot near airport there will be many ghost planes in floating (not moving anywhere) in the air.

One more thing, when sailing together with somebody, the other person might drop off the boat or even crash.  The strange thing is that I know nothing of the other avatar being dropped off or being crashed.  As I see it, the avatar is still with me in the boat.  If we have been chatting (in general chat) I just wonder why the other person went suddenly so silent.  What ever I say, no reply.  Only when IM the other avatar and if the avatar just dropped off the boat I get a reply "Where are you?  I'm at the bottom of the sea."  I answer "No, you are still with me in the boat".  Well, when I offer TP and the avatar comes back, their ghost vanishes from the boat.  Again the viewer radar and minimap showed all the time that the avatar was with me in the boat.

 

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