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Innula Zenovka

Changes to the jira.. hiding bug reports?

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Well, I don't think they have finished the JIRA maintenance.

Grid Status had reported:

[Posted 6:15pm, September 5th, 2012] The JIRA bug tracker will undergo scheduled maintenance from 12am to 12:30am PST and 10:30am to 11am PST on September 6th, 2012. The JIRA system will not be available during those times.

We will update this blog post when the maintenance has completed.

http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2012/09/05/post1748/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SecondLifeGridStatus+%28Second+Life+Grid+Status+Updates%29


It is not marked as completed yet.  However there is no additional update that they are still working on it.

However, whe I went to look at my existing JIRA  https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MAINT-623  I get:

 

Permission Violation

It seems that you have tried to perform an operation which you are not permitted to perform.

If you think this message is wrong, please contact your JIRA administrators.

 

Maybe I should file a bug report just in case something has gone wrong  they don't know about.

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One aspect of this doesn't seem to have been mentioned ...

When people come to the mesh forum looking for explanations and or solutions, and the answers are not immediately obvious, my first action is almost invariably to look at the jira to see if it's a known issue. More often than not it is, and the jira provides all the detailed information needed to explain and/or suggest solutions, say whether there is a fix coming, or say there is one already there in a new viewer.

This kind of accessible and up-to-date information, concerning the nature and status of issues, is indispensible for providing reliable help to those who seek it, whether here in the forums or in Answers. It depends both on visibility and on comments from non-originators. This move to obfuscate the jira has completely destroyed that source of information.

I don't know if I will choose to go on offering help. There is no satisfaction in relying on rumour, guesswork and supposition. If others persevere, the quality of the help they can provide will be compromised. Given that LL long ago decided to rely entirely on user-provided help, this must result in a significant  diminution in the quality of the help available to users, including those who have never even heard of the jira. That in turn can only decrease user satisfaction and weaken retention.

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The statement is clear: Thank you Volenteers for your hard work, linking Jira's, producing work arounds, verifying and helping to report and solve problems so that Linden Lab can make SL better, but GO AWAY AND LEAVE US ALONE !

 

Pesky residents, always thinking they are smarter and know better. Poohoo, you can't see, you can't touch cos we can. Don't ever forget who is god. Hahahaha.

 

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Recently I had problems with SVC-3017 (now 4 years old so clearly not a priority to be fixed) but by finding it in the JIRA I was able to design my script to take account of it.

Without being able to look this up it would have taken me hours of frustrating script checking, trying to figure out what I had done wrong, before I'd even realise it was a bug.

Then more time to work out a foolproof reproduction so that it didn't just get closed “unable to reproduce”, apparently with no reply allowed.

 And then it would get closed as a duplicate anyway...

The point is that this happens really often. The JIRA is an important resource.

Now there will be no sharing of knowledge about bugs and workarounds with residents. That's fine if bugs were a rarity and fixed quickly, but there are lots bugs and many stay open for years. Trying to hide them is just stupid.

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Latif Khalifa makes a similar point, in Tateru Nino's blog, about a question that frequently comes up in Answers -- "Why does the viewer keep on crashing when I try to upload things?"  aka VWR-28843

Latif traces the way it started as a question about uploading,  got identified as a problem with Microsoft Skydrive, then Latif posted a registry fix for it, and then Whirly Fizzle identified the root cause,which LL have apparently fixed (thus fixing several other issues in the process) and we should see the benefits of all this in a viewer release soon.

As Latif says, that will not now be possible.

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Over at SLU, Qie Niangao has posted, in three long extracts, the relevant discussion from Oz Linden's OpenSource Dev meeting yesterday, which was attended by Alexa Linden.

I would encourage people to consider Oz's suggestion 

  •  I suggest that you think carefully, and express clearly (and without any more emotional content than you can help) about why it's important to Linden Lab to do things differently

Notecards to Alexa or emails to Oz and they will apparently make sure the feedback is seen by the right people.

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Gadget Portal wrote:

I wish LL would just give up and sell the platform to a competent company already. I get the feeling they'd be much happier if they did.

organize the residents .. those of us who really love SL .. lets buy SL & run it as a non-profit members-owned cooperative !!

Jeanne

 

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Bugs will be duplicate reported!!  -- they are on Jira as well and always have been.

Nobody else will be able to see what my bug is!  -- nor will they be able to delete your bug from the Jira because they are petty little pests.  Result, more bugs reach the eyes of those who can fix them.


People cant see what the fixes for my bug is!  -- I think you are confusing the Jira with the forums and the Help areas...

People can't vote! -- why should the voice of the mob decide which bugs get fixed?  It's a bug; fix it!

 

The JIRA is the most pathetic piece of garbage in the world of computing.  Originally designed for internal management of code maintenance, it was never designed to be user-accessible.  If a noob has a problem, he can't report it because he has no idea the JIRA exists and is where he should report the bug.  Should the noob somehow find the JIRA, he has to have intimate knowledge of client-server relations and know what bit of code does what in order to report said bug.  And then, any twerp wanting to be a jerk can delete the bug and go chuckling back to Woodbury.


The JIRA is ***p.  There's nothing they can replace it with short of slips of paper on the backs of tortoises that will be worse.  And while the voting and discussion stuff does need to continue for new features, that can be moved to the forums quite easily where more people can see them.  But nobody needs to see my bug report or erase it -- that won't get the bugs fixed.

 

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One thing I am thinking is that only LL knows how much the JIRA gets "viewed."

And that some one (I had a less flaterrng word in mind) concluded it really doesn't get looked at much, missing the whole point of how important is to the people who consistently contribute to the growth of SL.

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Shockwave Yareach wrote:

People cant see what the fixes for my bug is!  -- I think you are confusing the Jira with the forums and the Help areas...

 No, I don't think so. The wiki, or at least the Scripting part of it, refers and links bugs and fixes to the jira, not the forums and the Help areas (and I, for one, am profoundly grateful that, for example, I was always able to refer to SVC-93 for a fix for the problem with llSetPrimitiveParams and PRIM_ROTATION rather than have to dig back to the original post in the Scripting Tips forum where Lex Neva explained the issue (can you find it?).      Similarly, I think you will find the jira is where the forums and Help areas link back to when explaining issues like, for example, SH-2240 and all the stuff arising from it, or, more recently, the issues around PATHBUG-69 or SVC-8124.    

I can't offhand think of any any examples where a Jira issue was closed (by LL or anyone else) with "see forum post whatever for a fix to this" or "you should be posting this in the forums".   Can you assist me with an example or two?

I am sure all this can be done in the forums, but far less conveniently.   I really don't see why the reports have to be hidden -- simply keeping them visible with no one but Lindens and the original reporter able to comment on them (or, which seems to be your particular concern, delete them)  would solve many issues.

 

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Agreed- the JIRA has essentially become a knowledge base over the years. Getting rid of that functionality is absolutely removing a resource from SL.

Additionally, due to the fact that bug regression seems to be somewhat common in SL viewer builds (there is after all a lot of disparate merging going on - i'm not faulting LL for that; regression happens in most dev environments from time to time), referring to previously fixed issues really has in the past, short circuited the need to start from scratch.  It's another form of duplicated effort, but a duplicate nonetheless.


Innula Zenovka wrote:

Latif traces the way it started as a question about uploading,  got identified as a problem with Microsoft Skydrive, then Latif posted a registry fix for it, and then Whirly Fizzle identified the root cause,which LL have apparently fixed (thus fixing several other issues in the process) and we should see the benefits of all this in a viewer release soon.

As Latif says, that will not now be possible.

Wow. I didn't even think of that -- That, in fact, is EXACTLY how I solved my "can't upload " problem.  I did in fact have SkyDrive installed, and Latif's fix on the JIRA got me up and running again. Threre is *no way* I would have divined that myself without the JIRA.  SL and SkyDrive? Too disparate for me to presume that they were interacting badly. I'd still probably be pulling my system apart to this day if it wasn't for Latif's JIRA post on that one, and it being searchable and available.

 

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I simply cant belive this sh&!, so LL pretty much starts closeing all doors for open source peeps, kills a very important resource of information, ohh and feature reqursts fostering ideas for a future SL ? Well apperently fu&% that sh$§ ! Well done LL well done -_-


Anyway hope the LL devs like getting 100 reports of the same issue instead of 1 and maybe 4 missfiled ones.

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"I wish LL would just give up and sell the platform to a competent company already. I get the feeling they'd be much happier if they did."

------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I get the feeling Linden Lab really hates Second Life. So why not sell it to someone who wants it?

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Hey, LL!  How about a new Forum here...The Bug Forum!

You can ignore it, just like you ignore all the other forums, but we can use it to report bugs and discuss them among ourselves.

 

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There is another "collateral damage": the translation of the viewer.

When we find a mistake in some languaje we open (up to know) a JIRA. Of course we looked at if that JIRA was opened. Witj the new implemenation of JIRA that work is stupid: perhaps my JIRA about a mistake in localizations is the fifth JIRA about that mistake.

 

 


Lindal Kidd wrote:

Hey, LL!  How about a new Forum here...The Bug Forum!

You can ignore it, just like you ignore all the other forums, but we can use it to report bugs and discuss them among ourselves.

 

:D :D :D

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Deltango Vale wrote:

Honestly, I get the feeling Linden Lab really hates Second Life. So why not sell it to someone who wants it?

They need it to provide an ongoing stream of funding to develop the other projects they are currently working on.  We should start to see the results of their labours and our money later this year.

 

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I try to be Miss Positive but this is simply ludicrous.

See my recent Jira about texture animation not working on our Ravens (probably fixed in the current beta).

It took several comments to get LL to understand the issue. It was a long and productive conversation, in which, finally, I uploaded some videos at LL request.

I think Dizzi Sternberg chimed in on this Jira as well.

TO do proper bug triage, developers need to understand the bug. Initial bug reports are not often good. I am expert at submitting bug reports, and even so, LL often asks me for clarification. Often, it is input from third parties that clarifies the bug.

I imagine that what lies under this decision is that many Jiras turn into long discussion lists, and the comments are not often useful. It seems to me that there are better ways to deal with that.

The policy as it stands will result in important bugs going unfixed because the initial report is not clear enough, and they will close them all for "not enough information to duplicate". 

Bad idea. Needs to be reversed immediately.

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