LL Shutting down server development? JIRA changes ...

[Hope Dreier]

Many years ago I worked in a Mail order & Retail (over the counter) hobby shop -model Aircraft, engines and Radio-controls.   The company was owned by a medium sized regional toy store chain.   Although the Profit margin was slightly lower on the hobby business the return rate was almost 0%, unlike the toy business were it was ~15%.   Non the less the people who ran the toy part were constantly bitching about the hobbyists 'wasting' the sales-clerk's time.  Clearly a case of management not understanding the customer.

   Now LL is being run by a fellow from EA Games (that is to say, the toy business), but the majority of people in second life are hobbyists.

   Much is explained.

[Taff Nouvelle]

A few years ago, we werte told that the user demographic was changing, and that the " early adopters", the pioneers would move out of SL to be replaced by the players, Well, we didnt go so I guess its another way of making us leave.

 

[Mysty Saunders]

You know its serious when people start agreeing with Prok. Well said Prok, great job.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Cincia Singh wrote:

I think the Jira had become a bully's playground with more opinion, ranting and flaming than bug reporting or relevant information posting. It had degraded to the point where it failed to serve its originally intended purpose. No where in the blog posting does it say anything about shutting down server development ... that's just an example of the type of inflamed rhetoric that resulted in the change.

---

It's a great Headline!

It serves it's purpose and gets peoples attention.

No doubt the JIRA needed moderated for dealing with Ranting.

But looking at the interaction between Residents and the Development team in isolating and fixing bugs in the past, there is no way at the present that you can convince me that it is not going to slow things down considerably.

There is already a report of a new JIRA being closed because the Dev team couldn't duplicate it yet it's been experienced by a number of users, some of them TPV Devs.

Without the ability to converse on the topic, a joint effort to deal with and isolate the issue, on that issue, Server Development has now been shut down.  So actually, it is already an accurate Headline.

Your posts are more predictable than mine.

 

[Ayesha Askham]

I am getting the strongest sense of "deja-vu" here.

Prok Neva posting, Mark Kingdon's comment from 2009 about "early adopters"....it IS 2012 isn't it...we HAVE moved on, haven't we?

Well, no.  It seems to me that the disconnect between LL's management and Secondlife users is just about as great as it has ever been.  I mean some Lindens were actually posting apologies in the JIRA....that's probably a dismissal offence.

I've been castigated as a "doom-sayer":.. there is nothing more I need add here, it's all been said.  All I can hear is bathwater running down the plug-hole...the baby has already gone.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

---

Cincia Singh wrote:

I think the Jira had become a bully's playground with more opinion, ranting and flaming than bug reporting or relevant information posting. It had degraded to the point where it failed to serve its originally intended purpose. No where in the blog posting does it say anything about shutting down server development ... that's just an example of the type of inflamed rhetoric that resulted in the change.

---

Aren't claims that these changes are because of bullies and user rants, when the company is saying that its goal is to be more helpful an example of inflamed rhetoric? No where in the blog posting did it blame users or point at having to read some extra text in the form of complaints and "chatter" were the cause, either.

But the best part about whether a disgruntled customer has a reason to be disgruntled enough to rant and complain are the judgements passed on them by others.

What's worse, the bully or the bully bullying the bully? Or, is this feeding the trolls or meta trolling?

At any rate, it's not just the people complaining, it's also the people complaining about complaints. You'd think at the end of the day that something is wrong and that it isn't with the end users, because a solid product is fully capable of speaking for itself in terms of demand. Complaints won't change the demand for a great product.

They might give clues to paths of improvements though, for a company willing to develop a product for users instead of the company.

All users eventually vote with their wallets or their feet, and if you ignore those signs, you're ignoring the problems.

 

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

We didn't break the JIRA

It was always burning

As the bugs kept churning.

We didn't break the JIRA:

We just try to use it

While the Lindens lose it.

 

You can find enough horribly old and unresolved bug reports to fill out the rest of the song.

[Prokofy Neva]

No, I continue to be a big critic of open source and actually oppose it as inferior and the opposite of what it claims.

I see this closure of the multilateral nature of the JIRA to be in fact exemplary of how open source always leads to close society.

http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2012/09/the-lindens-destroy-democracy-with-jira-closure-and-kill-off-totalitarians-who-ran-it.html

As I noted there, about being banned from the JIRA in 2009, so that I couldn't even read any entries:

So just as everyone got to feel what it was like to be banned from the forums when General and Political Science were closed, never to return as they once were, so now everyone is Prokofy. You should have cared what happened to me -- it was going to happen to you in three years' time...

I vehemently oppose open source culture.

Of course, I make use of open source scripts. Why not? They're there. I also pay for scripts -- and then they work better and i get better customer service.

I'm still waiting for the um, "community" to figure out what's wrong with my lovely Hank Ramos open source rental script : )

 

[Qie Niangao]

I really think "open source" is orthogonal to this situation. At this point, open bug-tracking is pretty much industry standard (for some value of "open") whether the product is proprietary or open source. On the other hand, as any IOS developer will attest, this complete closing-off of bug visibility is very Apple-like, and Apple is the epitome of closed-source, so maybe there's something there. (Lest anybody get the impression that it's a good idea for Linden to imitate the indisputably successful Apple in this regard: When SL is half as reliable as IOS, there might be something to talk about.)

---

I'm still waiting for the um, "community" to figure out what's wrong with my lovely Hank Ramos open source rental script : ) 

---

I'm not sure the Scripting forum represents an open-source "community" in any meaningful way--there are just a handful of us who still occasionally peek into these forums now--but in any case: I think those of us who responded considered the ball to be in your court there. At least, I was waiting (I asked twice) for more information about the distribution of the failures.  If all the already-rented boxes in a sim were affected simultaneously, the bug is almost certainly the jira I cited. (Too bad we won't be able to do that for new SL bugs, now that they're hidden.) We also identified a problem with the script that very definitely needs fixing and is the likely cause of spurious resizing, although it's not certain that it accounts for any frozen timer problems.

(Incidentally--and perhaps controversially--I'd be wary of using an open-source LSL script for such a business-critical application. Something built on such a vulnerability-ridden platform might do well to rely on a bit of "security by obscurity," however weak that may be. But my view of open-source is purely pragmatic--it's just a business decision--and others will surely disagree.)

[Perrie Juran]

---

Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

I'm still waiting for the um, "community" to figure out what's wrong with my lovely Hank Ramos open source rental script : )

 

---

I actually did a little searching on this and found your original posts on the subject:

http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/08/my-open-source-script.html

Almost appalling.  First of all, if I am reading this right, when someone originally stepped up and tried to help you, you publicly chastised them when their fix didn't work with out talking to them first about it.  While the two of you did 'make nice nice' in that thread, what you did was just plain rude.

Then you went on to accuse the original creator of the script of "thuggery." 

With an attitude like that, why would any one want to help you and possibly open themselves up to attack?

Granted, there is a side of the open source community that is composed of people who just want something for nothing.  I don't agree with that.

But the other side of the Open Source Community is people helping people.  What is wrong with people helping people?  You certainly didn't consider yourself above accepting help.  Reading that thread, it sounds more like you were doing the very thing you claim to be against, "something for nothing."

 

[Prokofy Neva]

Orthogonal is one of the open source cult words, Qie, did you realize that?

You take my assessment and think about it narrowly and literally, as if it is merely about how code is made and publicized to others. But it's about an entire culture and way of life and mindset, not merely whether or not you publicize code. It's how you make the code that counts. Open source pretends it is open and democratic in making code. It is anything but. It is autocratic and arbitrary.

Bug-tracking isn't an industry standard. There are probably few other software products in the world that had a public JIRA in which ANYONE could file a bug and a comment. Most of these types of trackers are internal only, and if opened up at all to users, only to contractors or app engineers or some clubhouse set of elites who are cleared as part of the geek tribe.

You may castigate Apple for not having an open JIRA, but it isn't open source software running its phones, so it doesn't need a public JIRA, it has employees for that. Does Android have a public JIRA? Can I go on it? That's the test. You've having a discussion about open source versus proprietary, but I'm analyzing how fake open source culture pretending to be "open to anybody" really isn't -- and so it ends in tiers as it has now with the JIRA.

The totalitarians can't take the open discussion that undermines their power; they shut it down.

As for my remarks about my lovely open source script, it's a perfect example of how fake the sense of community is. It's like when the Diaspora* devs give this failing social network to "the community". They might as well say "the garbage heap of history". They dump it out there in the wild and see who picks it up, maybe seagulls.

The rental script was in fact released to undermine the proprietary business of other rental script makers; it was once a proprietary script that in fact made millions for the scriptwriter, because he sold it at a high cost, or a low cost with an option to give him a percentage of each rental. The early economy of Second Life was primarily made up of such predatory proprietary rental-script percentages. There wasn't enough competition -- there were only two such scripts. Then a third competitor came along, and then one of the former monopolists released his script to damage the business of others. That's open source at its heart.

And there isn't anybody to fix it, now that it is "open" and "in the community". If you pay someone, they fix it. Not so freebie open source dreck.

I don't expect anyone to do a single thing for me for free -- I'm just calling out how fake it is to have open source scripts in SL which really mean in fact that nothing is worked on, because it depends on the good will of volunteers, and that isn't really the great thing you imagine.

As you "asking twice," you asked in fashion that sure sounded hypothetical. Er, more information about the distribution of the failures? Why, Qie? That would involve policing thousands of rental boxes and tabulating their failures manually. I don't have a master automated system like Hippo because I refuse to turn over my rental data to a script baron in SL. Those interested in tinkering with this could make a set of 100 boxes and track it themselves -- or not. If I report a bug that is happening on sims regularly enough to be a nuisance, AND others who ARE scripters say they have heard this is a bug, that should be enough to interest people (after all, it's likely not just my script's mechanisms). There is something to do with the version of the channel the sim is on or something, because not all boxes are affected.

I found that when I used proprietary rental script systems, I was deliberately sabotage and savaged by other proprietary rental systems in the most awful way, by stealing key words and negative advertising with my business name as a key word. I also used a proprietary rental script of someone who went on to become a serial griefer and thief and was banned permanently from SL. So that was why I put my "business critical" system on an open source script that in fact got fixed at least twice by "the community," i.e. individual kind volunteers. It's not that big a deal, Qie. Rental scripts are only reminder boxes. Payments could go into any prim with a dirt-simple payment script! The real transaction is recorded by Linden Lab in "My Accounts" and that's what's important.

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

If you did some research and read the whole blog, you should then point out that:

o people claim they can fix things casually in a "community," and then do sloppy, irresponsible work. Where's the quality control? There isn't

o the previous script writer ran a predatory proprietary rental script system taking a cut of every rental transaction of his hapless patrons, then open-sourced his script to destroy the business of another proprietary script maker competing with him. "Thuggery" is indeed the word to describe here, and it's typical of the Wild West of Second Life especially in its earlier days

o another proprietary rental script scripter also turned to griefing and robbing people in the banking schemes. This is Second Life! The Lindens fortunately moved in and banned banking and stock schemes; they also created a TPV policy and other things. They run a tighter ship now.

This isn't about "attitude," it's about reporting the bad behaviour of others.

Nobody is obliged to help me. But what you indicate is that no open source scripter can ever be criticized for bad behavior, predatory behaviour, destructive behaviour, casual and sloppy behaviour. And that's what's wrong with your openness, Perrie. It's not open. It's a cult.

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Prokofy Neva wrote:

If you did some research and read the whole blog, you should then point out that:

 

o people claim they can fix things casually in a "community," and then do sloppy, irresponsible work. Where's the quality control? There isn't

 

o the previous script writer ran a predatory proprietary rental script system taking a cut of every rental transaction of his hapless patrons, then open-sourced his script to destroy the business of another proprietary script maker competing with him. "Thuggery" is indeed the word to describe here, and it's typical of the Wild West of Second Life especially in its earlier days

o another proprietary rental script scripter also turned to griefing and robbing people in the banking schemes. This is Second Life! The Lindens fortunately moved in and banned banking and stock schemes; they also created a TPV policy and other things. They run a tighter ship now.

 

This isn't about "attitude," it's about reporting the bad behaviour of others.

 

Nobody is obliged to help me. But what you indicate is that no open source scripter can ever be criticized for bad behavior, predatory behaviour, destructive behaviour, casual and sloppy behaviour. And that's what's wrong with your openness, Perrie. It's not open. It's a cult.

 

---

First of all, to be fair and to allow people to make up their own minds, I did post the Link to where I got my information, so your own words speak for them self.  This way no one has to take my word for it.

Secondly, you describe his releasing of his code as, excuse me if I use the generic term to keep it simple, 'undercutting others.'  We could describe your practice of offering rental rebates as undercutting the business model of other Landlords who did not offer rebates, and hence thuggery.

Last, I never said it was NOT OK to criticize.  What I pointed out was the rude way you dealt with the person who tried to help you. That was very specific and to the point.

Recently I built something for a friend and gave it to them for a gift.  They had randomly mentioned something they'd like to have.  I decided to take on the challenge.  If after I had given it to them I had found they had criticized my work to others with out telling me first what I could have done better, they probably would no longer have been my friend.

There was no excuse for your rudeness in that situation.

.

[Prokofy Neva]

1. Open Source culture is reprehensible. It's authoritarian. It's what led both to the awful practices and atmospherics that led the Lindens to shut the JIRA interactivity down; and it is that very culture as well that led to them shutting it down for their own reasons. All in all, a lose-lose.

 

2. I don't offer rental rebates, I offer 4 week discounts, that's different. But I'll take it as a generic premise. You can't compare a business practice that involves giving customers a break, like in a volume discount, with undermining the very concept of enterprise itself by giving away things for free. And that's what happened -- one scripter undermined the proprietary business of others by releasing a script into the wild, thereby undermining their business, but he and others who came afterward in this magical "community" of opensourceness didn't supply due diligence and customer support. THAT is the problem. The same thing happened with the free TV script released -- I could really bend your ear on that one!

I'm all for scripts that provide basic "utilities" like opening doors or taking notecards or supplying a drink animation as being open source. That makes sense. No one is going to improve on them, really, and putting them into a proprietary situation only takes advantage of newbies.

But rentals scripts, TV scripts, other kinds of things like that are more complex, have different features, meet different needs, and there is no need to undermine the *business of proprietary script making* which is *legitimate* and at the heart of Second Life, through ideological warfare via sabotage. THAT is what I'm talking about.

A) if you go back to my blog post and see what I wrote, I didn't deal with anyone "rudely" -- that's your judgement B) if a script doesn't work and it is due to hasty and erratic work of a scripter, regardless of their niceness or friend status, you have to criticize them and tell them to do it over.

The very "iterative" nature of scripts make all scripters rather casual -- they hastily hack through things over and over until it works rather than thinking through consequences. If they had to pay $10 for each blank script they opened, like texture designers have to pay $10 for uploads, it might make them more careful.

 

[Melissa Yeuxdoux]

"Orthogonal is one of the open source cult words, Qie, did you realize that?"

Probably not, because it is no such thing--unless you have some evidence that nobody else has ever heard of that Adriaan van Wijngaarden, the inventor of two-level grammars (now called "van Wijngaarden grammars" after their inventor) and head of the committee that developed Algol 68 back in the 60s and 70s, somehow originated the open source "cult", unnoticed, a decade or so before Stallman started the GNU project and the Free Software Foundation was created.

Vectors are "orthogonal" if they're at right angles to one another--more abstract systems define an "inner product", analogous to the vector dot product, so that two things in those systems are called "orthogonal" if their inner product is zero, or a set of things if each two of them are orthogonal.

More important for the computer science usage of the term, orthogonal vectors are "linearly independent"; you can't add up multiples of some to get one of the others. By analogy, features of a program or programming language are "orthogonal" if they don't have arbitrary limitations, they can be combined as you will.

[Timothy McGregor]

"1. Open Source culture is reprehensible. It's authoritarian. It's what led both to the awful practices and atmospherics that led the Lindens to shut the JIRA interactivity down; and it is that very culture as well that led to them shutting it down for their own reasons. All in all, a lose-lose."

I just have a couple quick questions, Prok. If Open Source "culture" is reprehensible, then why do you choose to use Open Source products? If you find the actions or motives of the author who released his rental system as free, open software to be reprehensible, and you object to the consequences of that decision, why, pray tell, do you USE the software, and then **bleep** and moan when you don't receive the coddling you feel you deserve when you request help sorting out a problem?

I don't suppose you recognize the hypocrisy here, do you? Oh, I'm sure you'll just take a few moments to explain it completely away, won't you? You have developed a notable skill at using pseudo logic and rich language to wrap your otherwise ridiculous propositions to make them appear like a delicious intellectual sandwich. 

I'll give you props for one thing, Prok. You are persistent in your intellectual dishonesty. 

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

Can we take this argument out of this thread, so that those of us interested in what's happening to the servers stand a chance of finding out something useful.

I am so not surprised at hearing that you were banned from the JIRA.

[Prokofy Neva]

No, it's not "dishonest" or "hypocritical" to use open source scripts while denouncing open source *culture*. After all I buy Chinese-manufactured sneakers for my kids because they're much cheaper, but I denounce Chinese oppression of Tibet and dissidents. It's about normalcy and practicality, something that Internet-rooted people often have trouble grasping.

I use this script because it's the only open source script there is in Second Life, and it's one that I was in fact able to get fixed. I'd love more competition in this arena, but it's always been an area where monopolists and greed hold sway. Several of the big rental script companies combine this service with a mandatory hookup to their website where they grab all your data and then give you the convenience of seeing your own data -- for a percentage cut. No thank you to the cut, and no thank you to the turning over of data to other people who scrape and manipulate it. This is a chronic problem in SL.

I realize these are subtle concepts and they may go over your head but normal people in the real world are forced to make pragmatic decisions and work with what they have. The minute someone *else* makes a *different or better* open source script, I'll change to it in a heart-beat. The minute someone makes a rental system that doesn't involve me having to be tied to their website, I'll look at it. So often these great merchandisers go out of business -- the reason that open sourceniks often cite for their cult is that proprietary scripts are "locked" and when the people go out of business, you can't access them. True enough, except open source scripters go out of business or refuse to serve customers far, far more often, in my experience.

This is also a research and learning exercise for me. I'm seeing that my worst criticisms of open source are in fact borne out. There isn't any "community" -- only a gaggle of neuralgic and easily-offended freaks who shriek if you criticize their script and criticize you of entitlement-happy dishonesty if you put out the request to fix a broken script in their realm.

I don't need "coddling" nor do I expect even gruff answers to questions. I get them, in fact, because there are at least enough obsessives on the forums that within 24 hours someone will look at a script and answer a question, which says more about their need to feel needed than altruism, but no matter. But then what happens is that the inevitable occurs: patch or GTFO, there's the door, etc. etc. Qie tells me that I haven't answered questions -- by which he means I haven't run experiments on sims to replicate the bug to his satisfaction and documented it -- hours of work.

Working with software *is* work. It should be paid work. The scripts shouldn't be copyable if someone can then get paid for that hard work.

This is a religious matter, however, and I don't expect to change your faith precepts.

But the real challenge for all of your castigating me for my critique of the open source software movement is to explain away your own intellectual dishonesty in championing open source, but not being able to explain why these open source devotee friends of yours, the Lindens, have so many times gone against the letter and spirit of your movement.

They're the ones who took all your hard work and monetarized it in the creation of a special viewer sold to the CBS/Electric Sheep CSI sim projects, remember? Well, a dual license or some such thing enabled that, but the fact is, you were all chumps for working for the Man for free.

They're the ones who took a viewer in an ostensible open source open development setting, and locked it up from view for 18 months (viewer 2) while they completely changed and ruined it, without only a few NDA'd elites being able to look at it, but certainly not the commuuuunity.

They're the ones that suddenly said, sorry, 1.23 is dead, and we don't care that you're developing on that version your way, and we don't care that we declared "Dia de Liberacion" in our day and claimed Second Life could tolerate multiple, different versions of the software running on various servers.  That affected every TPV and they had to scramble.

They're the ones who have now closed off the interactive bug tracker, hobbling scientific collaboration and TPV work.

All of these impulses came out of the CULTURE of open source. Every  single one is dictated by the Benign Dictator. Yet you go on calling *me* intellectually dishonest for criticizing this software cult.

[Prokofy Neva]

Yeah, I understand the literal meeting of the word "orthogonal".

But in our context, it's a cult word that was popularized by the Lindens and caught on among the scripters. I watched this phenomenon over the years. I have never heard the word "orthogonal" before or since, outside of math class...until of course I began to listen to the speeches of Alec Ross, head of "Innovation" for the US State Department -- and of course he picked it up from Silicon Valley.

Philosophy and politics are areasof human thought that don't easily lend themselves to the reductiveness of math and science, so saying you think some argument doesn't apply because it doesn't fit a rigid parallel notion and seems "at right angles" to "the point" is merely a way of saying "I disagree with you" and trying to make it "science". My conceptual arguments against open source *culture* are in fact relevant and very important because they help you to see why the JIRA was eventually closed, and why this was logical from the perspective of open source culture, in fact. I have always said in compressed fashion that open source=closed society; now we see it in living colour.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

The claim that Lindens were "shutting down server development" merely because they shut down the *view* of multiple bug reports and removed interactivity was never logical or justified. You didn't attack that as off topic, however.

There isn't much more to say about the Lindens closing the JIRA because...it's closed now. Make your own JIRA.

So the discussion is about the larger issues, and in that sense, my critique of the problem of open source cultishness is relevant here.

My banning from the JIRA isn't a good thing; it's an example of the failure of this "science". If a person reporting a bug in good faith that is acknowledged as a bug by both the original coder and by employee no. 2 as a real bug is then hounded off the boards because another Linden likes the bug effect and think removal of it is a feature-removal request, then we've illustrated the heart of the problem.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Prokofy Neva wrote:

The claim that Lindens were "shutting down server development" merely because they shut down the *view* of multiple bug reports and removed interactivity was never logical or justified. You didn't attack that as off topic, however.

There isn't much more to say about the Lindens closing the JIRA because...it's closed now. Make your own JIRA.

So the discussion is about the larger issues, and in that sense, my critique of the problem of open source cultishness is relevant here.

My banning from the JIRA isn't a good thing; it's an example of the failure of this "science". If a person reporting a bug in good faith that is acknowledged as a bug by both the original coder and by employee no. 2 as a real bug is then hounded off the boards because another Linden likes the bug effect and think removal of it is a feature-removal request, then we've illustrated the heart of the problem.

---

Bottom line Prok, do you or do you not think shutting down the JIRA to public view and comment (technical input relevant to the problem) is a good thing?

 

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

The claim that Lindens were "shutting down server development" merely because they shut down the *view* of multiple bug reports and removed interactivity was never logical or justified. You didn't attack that as off topic, however.

You have noticed that is in the title for this topic? Unlike your ranting against open source. Which is even more irrelevant when the Linden server code is not open source. Do you know you're posting in "Second Life Server"?

You want to shift your inane ranting over to "Second Life Viewer", where the issues of open source code are relevant. Though I have seen plausible arguments that the way Linden Labs runs viewer development is not a particularly good fit with the open source definitions usually uses. Open Source is about collaboration. There is a two-way flow of information and code.

And, if you want to turn this into an argument about political philosophy, I've read both Ayn Rand and Kropotkin. I can point you at examples of successful anarcho-syndicalist corporations. All you seem to be doing is extolling the virtues of greed. Which, to be honest, I find a repulsive and self-diminishing basis for an argument. Why should I even bother, when I have already seen how little attention you pay to the words in front of you.

[Luna Bliss]

Sheesh..this is all so complicated..can't a freelancin girl just earn some money around here?

[Qie Niangao]

I'm going to try to wrangle this thread back on track, only because I think there is more to say about the jira change. Lindens have already said in a public meeting that they're taking reasoned input (although presumably not from this thread) and that there remain many details to be worked out, including which happy few outside the Lab will get access to the bug reports.

But first I have to respond to this:

---

Qie tells me that I haven't answered questions -- by which he means I haven't run experiments on sims to replicate the bug to his satisfaction and documented it -- hours of work.

---

Yeah, don't do that. It would be a waste of time, and that's not what I meant. We only need a qualitative idea of what's been happening, to know if the problem is due to something that the script is doing wrong, or if instead it's a known but very rare problem with the sim software itself. If it's the sim problem, it should have happened only a very few times, ever, but should have affected all rented boxes in a sim, simultaneously.

More to the point of the thread: Prokofy said something in an earlier post that got me thinking. There was confusion about why I mentioned Apple's relative secrecy about IOS defects, similar to the Lab's new approach. The fact that IOS is closed source and Android is open is not a reason for Apple to hide bug reports in this case because it's not maintenance of that OS source that's supported by public access to the bugs--rather, it's to support the app ecosystem that relies on that OS as a platform.

I rambled more about this on SLU; in summary, the "apps" built on the Second Life platform most obviously include scripts, but also include TPVs, social groups, businesses, land use, and user content generation, all of which are hampered by closing off timely access to information about bugs in the platform.

[Innula Zenovka]

Yeah, to my mind, the jira's function of documenting bugs and their work-rounds (if any) is more important, if anything, than getting them fixed.

As a scripter and landowner both, I can live with bugs, so long as they're documented so I know what to avoid doing, or what to do when they arise.    

LL need to know about them to fix them.   I need to know about them so I know what to do before LL get them fixed.