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"Good Quality" mesh

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I'm a mesh creator, a clothes mesh creator, and while I can very easily identify what a "bad mesh" is... I want to know what do the costumers, the buyers and the requesters mean when they say they're looking for "high quality" meshes.

 

What, for a buyer who doesn't MAKE mesh, does the phrase "good quality mesh" mean? From a tecnical point, I know how to make good quality mehes, but I'm sure that my idea of this is very different from that of a buyer.

Tell me what you think: what do YOU mean when you say you're looking for a "good quality mesh"? What re your expectations? What do you expect fromt he product?

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For me, good mesh is doing what sculpts and system layers don't do as well. Long flowing dresses and skirts are a great example. Ones that move with the body in a more realistic way. Also baggyish shirts or loose flowing clothing. I've seen amazing mesh when working with this. 

Another thing that really makes me smile is to see mesh clothing that ISN'T made from a template. I don't really care if the finished product is sold cheap but when its a full price thing? Yeah no. It doesn't look creative and most of the time just isn't worth the money. 

Lastly, clothing that comes in a good variety for shapes. I've seen XS, XXS, and even XXXS a few times. But an XL? Hardly ever. For some people with heavier avatars this is just rather sad. Also, an option for an avatar with a heavier bust would be great since I know some people complain about that.

Also, I don't buy mesh skinny jeans. I have yet to see the value in them really.

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I guess good quality mesh is everything thats not bad mesh:)

For clothes, mesh items that have good alpha layers. I know to make them by myself but if I payed for a shirt, I want to wear it and not to work on it. So, when you see avatar skin, then a big empty hole, then mesh shirt, thats bad. If alpha layer goes undeerneath the mesh item, thats good.

After that are textures. If its just a plain color without shading, its bad. If it has some "I found it on Google" photo and nothing else, its bad. If it shows that the creator worked on it and made something different, thats quality. 

I remember it was early spring and I was searching for a mesh leather jacket. Mp had many, and all of them used same template!  :P

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/cheeky-Leather-Girl-Jacket-Black/3207680

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Opium-Mesh-Female-Biker-Jacket-Black-PROMO-copy-boxed/3209482

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/EC-Box-Joe-Biker-Jacket/3252311

Size matters too. 

 

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I don't use much mesh clothing and I think the major problem I have with it is a lot of it looks fine when standing still but the body will clip through it in many poses. Alphas aren't always a good solution because it's very difficult to make a precise alpha in SL so it often either doesn't cover all the problem spots or is visible (well, INvisible) outside the line of the clothing item. I actually think old-fashioned glitch layers would be a better solution than alphas in some situations but I don't see them provided that often.

I know the standard SL avatar is badly rigged (although it's improved after the changes in STORM-1800 which are currently being used in the Dolphin viewer and hopefully will be widespread soon) but in the end the standard avatar is what mesh clothing is meant to cover so I'd like to see clothing rigged to follow it as well as possible.

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i too have had alot of problems with clipping...my ao isn't really figity, but it does shift positions abit, and i've noticed some dresses clip through my upper thighs when i lean back, and others don't...

the oddest thing i've found is that alot of shorter mesh dresses seem to totally eliminate my rear end...heheh

i know this cause i wear a tail, and when i put on my mesh shape, my tail is sitting right where it should be, but then i put on the mesh dress/alpha and my tail is just hanging out by itself behind me and has to be moved in a bunch....my poor av is totally flat in the back...needless to say, i put those dresses in the trash


it's also irritating that if i wear heels with mesh pants, the backs of my shoes clip through the pants...seems like that little bit should be adjusted for when created...i hate the thought of having to wear flat sandals with my flowy mesh pants, but it seems to be the only way

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Good quality mesh:

- Doesn't clip, some people obviously forget to test out their mesh model on an actual SL avatar, because it will clip under any possible SL shape

- Doesn't give that cheap flimsy look - a sweater is not supposed to be paper thin, make it thicker and more realistic

- Realistic wrinkles and shadows

- Anything from Coldlogic

- Anything from Aoharu

- Anything from Dela

- Anything from HoC (footwear)

- Anything from Wasabi Pills (hair)

- Anything from Miel

Fan of those stores.

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 Mew mew ma mew boo :matte-motes-bashful:

Well for me, the two big things I look for once i decide that the item is something I like, and the texture and detail are fantastic, are

1. See through. This is a bit of a super picky example, but if the inside is not textured and i can see through it from moving my camera around theres no way i am buying it no matter what, because it would drive me fricking crazy :)

 Snapshot_020.jpg

 

2. If it has cleavage, is it contoured propely and does the store supplied alpha not cause my boobies to be sliced apart when i get caught looking at my cleavage :)  This is an example of what i call done right. I can fill in the cleavage with well my cleavage :)

Snapshot_021.jpg

 

Ok a few more points but no pictures.

3. Alphas that you can see easily, usually boobies cut off , legs to low, etc

Some bonus things that make me reduce my linden balance:)

- Butt and hip fit. I got a skirt yesterday that came with the 5 standard sizes but included 3 variations on each, normal, medium and big butt :)

- Actual mesh, not using texture to make buttons or belts etc, but actually a mesh part. I dont want a clothing layer version in mesh, i want details that make me want to wear it and show it off.

So, for me its all about details and proper fit. Just yesterday i had to turn down buying two outfits that I would have bought in a minute because of issues mentioned above.

On last thing, a demo is a must, without a demo theres no way i am buying with the current state of how rigged mesh works.

ahh, i remember another thing that really bugs me, but i am not sure what causes it. Certain designers mesh appear to have a violent reaction to my avi, it causes her feet to sink into the ground, and in some cases gives me rubber arm. I can tell you, i avoid those stores like the plague.  I wish i knew why some do that , while most dont but i have no clue.

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a good mesh should be optimized for LOD ... that is, reducing the number of polygons for "level of detail" when seen at varying distances. in other words, a highly detailed mesh doesn't need to be so highly detailed when viewed from a distance, however, it should still retain the basic shape of whatever it is, and not become a jumbled mess of blocky polygons. 

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LOL maybe we should shop together.  I have the opposite problem.  Most mesh skirts and pants have butts way to big and make me look like i have too much junk in my trunk in proportion to my avatar.



 

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Since you know how to make a quality mesh technically then I'll share some things I like/ dislike:l

ORIGINALITY - too much is around that is all made from the same template  If I like that I can buy the template myself and texture it to be truly unique.

DETAIL - I rarely see mesh clothes with a lot of fine detail, I want to see 3d buttons, seams, trim etc.  In other worlds textures should be limited to reproducing the materials an item is made out of, not  the item itself.

APPROPRIATE FABRIC THICKNESS - too many long skirts that are supposed to be flowing look like they are made out of marshmallows or foam rubber.  Too many bulky things such as heavy sweaters look like the are made out of silk.

FIT - Standard sizes rarely fit my avatar and I will not change shape to fit one piece of clothing.  I have purchased mesh that is offered in variations of each standard size as well as the standard size, one with a smaller bust and butt and one with a larger bust and butt.

A GOOD ALPHA - one that covers al the areas that clip but doesn't make parts of my body disappear when seen from any camera angle.  A good example:is short skirt alphas.  Don't make one that makes the whole area under the skirt disappear because when you sit and people can see up the skirt a bit they see nothing - which is disturbing.  Why hide the inner thigh area since that won't ever poke through a skirt.

Lastly, don't' make all your clothes look too much like RL clothes.  They are OK for some things but everyone I know wonders why so much of what is supposed to be club wear is so conservative looking in mesh with longer skirts and higher bust lines than system clothing has.  A lot of people want to wear sexy and more revealing things in SL than they could in RL.

I for one don't mind paying more for clothing that meets my high standards and am not alone.  Leave the cheaper priced items to the template users.

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mew mew ma mew :)

 

Oh thats a good point, if i catch a store using a template it will make me not want to buy anything from them again.  I perferr to send my support to original content creators, which there are plenty.  I leave buying noname stuff to my RL diet thank you hahahah.

 

 

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Thank you very much for the opinions! They're really useful for me.

Amethyst, you mentioned details like buttons and seams. What more would you like to see rendered as a 3D object and not a texture?

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mew mew ma mew boo,

I will chime in to.

Basically anything that not the material in a RL version. Buttons, snaps, clasps, hooks, belt loops, belts, zippers, the little eye thingines that laces go through, laces, pocket flaps, wringles and folds, even the label if it shows (Bonus item)

If you see the first picture i put in the prev post, you can see the the clips that do up the dress. Its a perfect example of the details bing done as mesh, if not for the see through i would buy it, in a different color though, thats the demo color.

 

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For me is is the fitting and the rigging that matters mostly.

 

If even using the alpha layers , while my ao moves my body sticks out the outfit, it is a bad mesh.

 

If no matter how I chang emy shape, ther eis a gab between my boops and I see the alpha layer trhu this gap, is a bad layer.

if it bends awkwardly near the pelvis when I sit, is a bad mesh....(not rigged to the pelvis)

 

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For me, good quality mesh is not the same old stuff done over and over again.  It has good weight painting so when my AO moves my AV my skin is not sticking out.

The inclusion of a the alpha texture I can export and easily tweak it to my AV. I don't mind buying off the rack so to speak if it is creatively done and uniquely accessorized and at a low cost because IT IS off the rack.  But, so many After Market Creators don't seem to test the Alphas they receive in their kits on AVs other than the standard shapes.  Of course the Alphas will fit the standard AV sizing, but let's be practical here, how many of us really are those standard sizes?

Also, it would be since if more offsets were used so layered clothing could be incorporated under shirts and such. 

The biggest trouble I have is wearing separate pieces from different makers for example pants and tops. Or, long shirts and flexi skirts.  Just very difficult to coordinate and look right. Would be nice of a mesh maker made  their products that could fit with one another.

 

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What seems to be the common consensus about "good mesh" is something that i've asked people before and it's a complete contrast to what the technical mesh creators want to hear (at times).

Customers want "lots of detail", modelled parts (even if they're only a couple of pixels in size at normal viewing distance), modelled seams (even if nobody sees without caming to within a centimetre or two).  Details like alphas etc. are a given but the general consensus is "it has to look good!".

To hell with topology, render weight, download weight, nobody cares, just as the customers in general are not crying over the state of the avatar and its current weighting.  It looks good enough, as long as clothes look good, that's all that matters.

(Caution: heavy dose of inappropriate sarcasm follows)

It's "SL" that lags right?  LL need to improve SL, need to buy more hardware.  It can't be anything to do with user created content, ridiculously high vertex count, huge textures and lots of them.  That moment when someone comes into your view and your PC comes to a grinding slideshow rendering them, that's "SL" that's lagging of course, yes!

That skirt I bought with the render weight of over 74,000, it's *just* a skirt, that can't have any impact on anyone.  Nope, none.

 

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Good post, Sassy.  I liked the "heavy dose of sarcasm"!

The debate always rages on doing what is technically correct or serve customers and their money.  It's one of those questions everyone has to answer for themselves and may not set well with everyone else. I mean look at the texture size debate...been going on for years and still raging.   

I have always created  for the love of learning new things/skills and benig creative.  Some of what I create I offer for sale...if folks chose to buy,  cool...if not, that's cool too. Me, I try to do it technially right (LOL and fail more often than not)...but with mesh am still learning all the technical aspects.  I work with low poly, which looks like crap if you zoom out but sheesh you if you are zoomed out what does it matter what it looks like from a distance?  Boogles my mind sometimes.  I know there are creators that depend on the RL bucks their items generate so they may have very different motives in creating and pleasing customers.  I can't fault them to be honest.

Keep up the does of scarcasm...we need them to keep us honest!

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I appreciate lots of modelled details but within reason.  The zipper down the back of a dress, for example, if every tooth of the zipper were rendered the zipper would have way more polys than the dress.  However, the zipper pull at the top can be modelled without too much land impact and it should be.  I hope that when materials is perfected and more designers use it this will take care of a lot of the issues we have with modelled detailed for the little stuff.

For now I just really wish that standard sizing was more standard.  I really love mesh clothing and did actually change my shape to suit what is allegedly XS.  However, in some mesh clothes I have to wear XXS and others S or even M.  That makes no sense to me.  I personally can't wait for the mesh deformer so this won't be an issue anymore.

I am sick to death of the template mesh clothes, all of them.  I wish that designers had not gone this way at all.  In my opinion, high end designers don't sell full perm, period.

Demos are hugely important right now, because mesh is still relatively new and there is so much variation - I cannot understand why all designers don't provide demos, I won't buy mesh clothes without trying a demo first.

Texture work is a big factor.  I love it when I can zoom in and tell what kind of material a dress is made with.  I want to see the seams and natural looking shadows.  I love it more when I can buy mesh clothes that come with a HUD to allow texture options.  That's a great selling point for me and I'll gladly pay more for it if the textures included are good quality.

Quality weighting is very important.  I don't have an antsy AO and I expect me clothes to move with me well at least when I walk and sit.

 

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