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Leia36

Child AVs and ToS

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On our travels together and apart my Master and I have come across many fun, happy cool, funny, beautiful, moody, sexy, inspired, artful, gloomy, attractive Sims, people and situations.

But recently I had the unhappy experience of feeling creeped out in SL for the first time.

We had gone looking at some of our older landmarks, some of his very old.  One of them near the end of our evening was a fairground/carnival sim but with a twist. The sim looked like it had been taken straight out of a Stephan King novel, very well done, obviously someone had gone to a lot of trouble.

What creeped us both out were these two AVs. (see below)

One was something like the devil incarnate and the other was a very young girl AV, near 10 years old.

I can't post the local chat here but this is what happened. Basically we walked up and said hi, The devil guy answered saying something like he is the dark leader of the goat. The goat type remarked that we where M/s and asked a question that gave us both the creeps.

Did we have a spare collar for the 10 year old.

We said no. I actually did have one but there was no way I was even going to contemplate giving it to him. We said goodbye and left the sim.

I subsequently took a very well known friend of mine who is famous for exposing ToS violations to the sim, but it was empty. She explained to me that any sexual activity involving or near child AVs is a violation of LLs ToS. And as he was only talking about it, not much could be done. The question is, is collaring a child AV a violation of the LL ToS. Personally I find the thought revolting and I would not hesitate to AR this individual If I had something concrete. It got me thinking though, who knows what happens in skyboxes far away from others.

Snapshot_074.jpg

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There is no explicit line about collars. One could wear a collar just for fashion (I do that myself, ocelot with a petcollar looks cute!). But if its used for sexual content....then its possible to file an AR (not explicit because of the collar, but because of the sexual content). And there is the problem: Everyone with a working brain can guess what the demon wanted to do with the child, but without having any facts it is not sure if they would get some trouble.

I would say: Try it. Try to AR them, and make it as clear as possible to see that he asked for a collar used in bdsm. Maybe the Lindens will see it as good enough reason to do something.

 

edit: Oh and your hair in that picture looks wonderfull! :)

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Without a doubt I would have submitted an abuse report for both the child avatar and the adult avatar, including the screenshot showing the open chat also. 

Try not to think about what goes on in skyboxes. It will mar your SL. Just know the violators are in the minority and karma will get them in the end.

 

 

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Leia36 wrote:

One was something like the devil incarnate and the other was a very young girl AV, near 10 years old.

I can't post the local chat here but this is what happened. Basically we walked up and said hi, The devil guy answered saying something like he is the dark leader of the goat. The goat type remarked that we where M/s and asked a question that gave us both the creeps.

Did we have a spare collar for the 10 year old.

In the absence of all of the information, i'm going to play devil's advokate and ask for clarification about the age, features and chat.

The above implies to me that it was assumed that she was a child av based one the comment "near 10 years old".  Is that based on size?  Was there anything in the chat that said she was role playing a child av?  Did the avatar have more mature features such as slim waist and breasts?

Size alone is not sufficient to assume that someone is a child av.

Like I said, devil's advokate but when everyone else around you is stupidly tall, a somewhat short person appears very short.

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It might be unclear from the screenshot, definitely a child AV, flat chest, child like features, If you look carefully at the screenshot, to the right of her AV you can see the goat man's AV (the dark tall one) she doesn't come up to his waste and he is just a bit taller then my Master. I am short but I towered over her.

As for the chat: she was clearly RPing a kid, but I can't post that here. I will file an AR when I log though.

 

 

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You say, "The question is, is collaring a child AV a violation of the LL ToS".    

That, I think,  will depend on whether the person at LL dealing with the AR thinks it (or, more properly, talking about doing it) contravenes the Clarification of policy disallowing ageplay, so my answer would be "your guess is as good as mine".

For what it's worth, you've clearly found the incident disturbing (as would I), so my suggestion would be to report it and let LL decide what action, if any, they want to take.   

 

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much more sensible action than the idiots claiming that anyone shorter than 1.55m (or 1.80m I've seen) must be a child and therefore has to be banned if they try to enter an A rated sim (which is utter nonsense).

Still a bit of an overreaction, but not much of one as the implied intent is almost certainly there (though, tbh, since being collared last April my sexual activity in SL has all but dried up, and none of what remains is with those who own me, they being the only ones with access to my collar).

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The person who I refer to in my OP is a mutual friend. She advised me to do the same. But like I said I was not expecting any real action from LL. Notice I did not name names here or the sim in question. I was in two minds whether or not to use ARs so I posted here to gauge peoples reactions and acted accordingly.

I am sorry to hear that about your owners

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If you are talking about Collaring a child avatar and walking them around a Sandbox for that matter in fun for example then yeah there isn't much of a problem I would see. I haven't exactly dressed up a child avatar, but I have had an alt/bot on a collar before and walked them around a sim which happend to be somewhat short in height and people could consider a child avatar.

Even if a child avatar on a Leash/Collar did not involve any type of Sexual content I wonder what people would make out of it next like for example it could offend some as making it look like the child avatar is a Slave being abused, aka child abuse as it would be called today.

But then a lot of people take things offensive in so many ways it really depends on the situation of if it is worth an abuse report, for example a child avatar could use an old LandMark and appear in an adult sim by mistake, or on a parcel filled full of adult content, I generally wouldn't even bother reporting such unless I actually saw people breaking the TOS like actually people doing really dirty stuff with the child avatar, but then again in Real Life your children actually have genitals, and in Second Life as a child avatar you have nothing so heh. Too bad Second Life doesn't have built in functions like RL but then I could see so much abuse in it.

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Walking a short AV around leashed would I think get you in trouble in some places, depends on who is admin I guess.

A leashed child avatar or even the thought of one is pretty sick if you ask me. Besides being I think a violation of the ToS It could bring SL itself into disrepute in the public eye if enough media attention was focused on it RL.

My Master and I talked about this last night and he came up with a few good points of his own, People who use child AVs for genuine non-sexual RP are curtailed by this in their SL. They are (rightfully) bared from viewing a  lot of content, because of the potential for bringing discredit to SL amongst other things. Child abuse is another. Some parents might let their kids use SL for educational purposes amongst other things. For me I can say that I want my kids to experience RL before they venture here.

As for giving child AVs genitals, I am at a loss for words

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Leia36 wrote:

 Some parents might let their kids use SL for educational purposes amongst other things.

Possibly they might, but unless they've colluded with their kids' lying about their age, the kids will be restricted to G-rated land.

Generally, I have to say I'm sceptical about the dangers facing unsupervised minors who lie their way into SL.   If SL Adult Content is the worst thing they encounter on the internet when their parents are not watching, then I think their parents should count themselves very fortunate indeed.      And, had I teenage children, I'd be far more concerned about their having unsupervised access to cellphones and social networking sites than to SL, adult or otherwise.

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Leia36 wrote:

Child abuse is another. Some parents might let their kids use SL for educational purposes amongst other things. For me I can say that I want my kids to experience RL before they venture here.

RL children don't use child avatars (why would they?), they wear adult ones (from some experience of sim-banning these types). Neither is their being here ToS-legal in the first place (parents own risk, the abuse lies with the parent, parent risks a ban by allowing it, etc., etc.).

No desire to comment on the remainder of the content in this thread. LL is (rightfully) judge and jury.

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I agree, and personally that is in the future. its a far different world from the one I grew up in, in the 80s

 

@ Freya Yes We have had similar things happen at the Adult Hub. point taken

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For me its not the point that a child could be behind the childavatar (which isn't really likly to happen) but I find it disgusting to think about those two avatars Leia saw on the sim she went to.

An adult who desires to idea of having a childavatar collared is a sick weirdo

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I've been thinking about this.   Strikes me that the chap with the demon avatar would have had to be pretty inexperienced in SL not to know where he, or the child avatar, could get collars from (free ones if necessary), and also have to be naive in the extreme not to realise the effect his question was likely to have.

Maybe he was deliberately trolling you?  After all, when a goat-headed demon avatar and a child avatar are knocking round the grid together, they can hardly be unware of people's likely reaction to them.

Regardless of that, I think you did the right thing in reporting them.   

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He is not new, neither is she, and we both pointed that free collars are available. If his reason for asking was to troll us, it was a pathetic attempt. I think he is naive where D/s is concerned and either didn't read our profiles or thinks everyone involved in D/s is as bad as they are, which is obviously not the case.

Also both of their groups had charming names like "disposable women" and others unmentionable. They really are quite the pair of charmers.

 

@Syo Thank you , yes sick weirdoes sums it up, collaring a child AV.

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Freya Mokusei wrote:


Leia36 wrote:

Child abuse is another. Some parents might let their kids use SL for educational purposes amongst other things. For me I can say that I want my kids to experience RL before they venture here.

RL children don't use child avatars (why would they?), they wear adult ones (from some experience of sim-banning these types). Neither is their being here ToS-legal in the first place (parents own risk, the abuse lies with the parent, parent risks a ban by allowing it, etc., etc.).

No desire to comment on the remainder of the content in this thread. LL is (rightfully) judge and jury.

its pretty easy for an underaged person to lie about his or her age & get into SL .. i think that youre prolly right about kids in SL not using child avatars .. which means that most if not all child avatars are driven by adults .. so you have RL kids getting away w/ having slex using adult avatars .. & RL adults not getting away w/ having slex using child avatars .. unless of course theyre doing it on private sims where others are banned from .. who knows what goes on there ?!?! .. & then you have the whole size issue .. a short female avvie is ok if she has boobs but isnt ok if she doesnt .. LoL .. is any1 else struck w/ the hypocrisy & craziness of all this ??

i realize that LL doesnt really care what goes on so long as they dont get sued or dont encounter too much negative publicity .. & that they only set their ToS to conform to whatever the law is in the US or Germany or somewhere .. but the way things work .. or fail to .. just strikes me as being totally arbitrary & bizarre .. what next?  is LL goin2 set their ToS to conform to Sharia law ??

Jeanne

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:

is LL goin2 set their ToS to conform to Sharia law ??

Jeanne

 

I very much doubt it.   Why would they want to, since their target markets clearly don't include countries with Islamic legal systems.   LL don't mind if  Second Life gets banned in Iran  along with WoW, Diabalo 3 and several others.  

They would mind, I think, if it got banned in Germany or the UK.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

is LL goin2 set their ToS to conform to Sharia law ??

Jeanne

 

I very much doubt it.   Why would they want to, since their target markets clearly don't include countries with Islamic legal systems.   LL don't mind if
 along with WoW, Diabalo 3 and several others.  

They would mind, I think, if it got banned in Germany or the UK.

i dunno Innula .. theres @ least 1.7 billion Muslims in the world .. some estimates run as high as 2.1 billion .. thats quite a market !! & Muslims have a pretty high birthrate .. just imagine all the tier LL could rake in if they set the ToS so that SL wasnt banned thruout muchuv the Islamic world ..

i just think that these issues deserve to be explored .. personally i detest child abuse of any sort .. if i was the person writing the ToS id have no qualms about banning sexual ageplay regardless of what the law is .. but then again i dont much care for slavery or bdsm stuff either .. or for violence .. maybe id ban that too .. i have nothing against gays but what if i was a homophobe & i got to decide what the ToS is ?? my point is that what goes in2 the ToS is so arbitrary that its ludicrous .. & hypocritical too 

like i pointed out someone might be having virtual sex w/ a minor running an adult avatar who lied about his or her age .. and no1 would know any better .. while on the other hand RL adults can get in trouble & be banned for virtual sexual ageplay that doesnt involve any real children .. i just think this is really bizarre .. ppl like to defend "land owners" being able to put up yellow ban lines so that others cant have access to "their land" .. doesnt this just ensure that sexual ageplay can go on unhindered on private sims ??

i just think that ppl need to think about how twisted some of this stuff is .. thats all

Jeanne

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:

 just imagine all the tier LL could rake in if they set the ToS so that SL wasnt banned thruout muchuv the Islamic world ..

In how many countries other than Iran do you say SL is banned?   I ask because I don't know.  

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