Should we ban sexual voilence and abuse against women in SL

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

There is nothing normal about this behavior.

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What is "normal" to you may not be "normal" to other people and vice versa.

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The men and women who like this behavior, or fantasize, or are just curious need therapy.

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And your qualifications to make this sort of judgement are... ?

[Ceka Cianci]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

I think Extremely Noble is entitled to his belief that Sl is SL, and RL is RL. So yes, us as SL residents should deal with it... I chose to deal with Nobles beliefs by kicking his ass to the curb! Anyone who has fantasies of this type of behavior in RL or SL... Should seek help immediately. There is nothing normal about this behavior. The men and women who like this behavior, or fantasize, or are just curious need therapy.

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i think the ones that are scared of others for having free thoughts are the ones that need therapy really..

just because you were programmed by whoever along the way and they made you see some things as not normal or wrong because of whatever reasons?

that doesn't make it so..

the ones trying to impose  their beliefs on others are the ones that need the reprogramming..not the ones doing their own thing..

you can bet there is someone out there that thinks some of your normals are pretty wacked also..

i wouldn't go chopping down too many tree's in the name of what you feel is normal..because there are  a lot of branches to ever trunk..you may end up chopping down your own tree and not even realize it until it's too late..

 

a lot of things get tied together that you may not even notice because you couldn't see the forest through the tree's..

 

 

 

 

 

[Winter Tenenbaum]

Don't wanna see YOUR forest through MY trees. I did not push my beliefs on anyone. With regard to Noble he was the pushy one. There is NOTHING normal about that fantasy. Sorry...

 

[Solar Legion]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Don't wanna see YOUR forest through MY trees. I did not push my beliefs on anyone. With regard to Noble he was the pushy one. There is NOTHING normal about that fantasy. Sorry...

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Repeating it over and over again does not make your opinion a fact - sorry.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Don't wanna see YOUR forest through MY trees.

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I doubt you could see through them, anyway. Sounds like they're very narrowly spaced. :smileyhappy:

[Katheryn Knoller]

Unless of course that soda is mixed with Bourbon!! Yumm

[Flax Cuttita]

its second life  ie not real life  ,  ppl have a choice  to do what  they like places are rated   adult mature etc  stay away from the  adult  and  turn it off in viewer if you dont like it 

should we ban furry  sex  while  we at it  ? bestiality and  all that

or any form of  role play ?

each to what they enjoy ppl  sometime s need to escape there  boring  lives  or hubbies  wives  etc 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Don't wanna see YOUR forest through MY trees. I did not push my beliefs on anyone. With regard to Noble he was the pushy one. There is NOTHING normal about that fantasy. Sorry...

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i just quoted that section of your post..my comment was about everything after the word Curb..

how you judge people in your relationship is one thing..start doing it to others outside of it just because you don't dig it..

that's pushing beliefs..Sorry..

and it's not my forest..it's yours..

 

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

What an odd little thread that I've been ignoring.

I suppose the obvious question is who are these "women in SL"?

Not to say that there are no RL women in SL. :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

But of course there are RL men playing SL women, and vice versa, and I'm unclear which of these are now to be considered fair game for "sexual violence and abuse."

Not to say that I want to be in that abused group. (Not sayin' otherwise, neither. :matte-motes-evil-invert:)

Furthermore, even in RL, gender is awfully complicated for a binary variable. That is, if everybody is now supposed to redirect all the violence and abuse from women to, say, pre-op M2F transgendered people (or avatars), the OP really should specify that.

[Winter Tenenbaum]

Listen up, I could give a frig or a frack if SL bans this behaviour. Never did I say " Ban it!" My comments were limited to my experiences with Extremely Noble in game. I have dealt with his behaviour and abuse. I chose for myself to walk away. You are free to do as you please. I still think women who fantasize about this stuff, and men need professional help. I chose for myself to command respect from my male counterparts in both lives. Do as you wish. My forest is much better than yours!

[Winter Tenenbaum]

Im also gonna say tbis.... It's a real shame that so many women wen through womems sufferage so that ppl like this could set back the womens movement 100 years. Good job! Best of luck.

[Solar Legion]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Im also gonna say tbis.... It's a real shame that so many women wen through womems sufferage so that ppl like this could set back the womens movement 100 years. Good job! Best of luck.

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Actually it's a pity that they went through it so that the modern crop could pretend to be outraged by things that don't affect them one bit (and trust me, those that get so easily offended by what other women do online or in their real lives really aren't affected by it).

You've got your thoughts and opinions - that's wonderful!

Just remember that they're just that: Your thoughts and your opinions - The reality of the situation is this, no one is doing anything illegal by participating in this sort of role play while using Second Life. They're not doing anything illegal by participating in the (far safer) role play variations in real life either.

Some people still retain the ability to seperate fantasy and reality. The only thing that should (and presently, rightfuly does) concern people is when it ceases to be fantasy.

Actual abuse and violence against either gender is a very bad thing and should indeed be punished under the law.

For everything else, people should mind their own business.

[Qie Niangao]

Suffrage is not something anybody "went through" -- it's something people fought for and gained.  Otherwise it seems confused with "suffering" which has nothing to do with the word.

(I realize that's going to sound pedantic to some. Tough. My forest. Mine!)

[Solar Legion]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Suffrage

is not something anybody "went through" -- it's something people fought for and gained.  Otherwise it seems confused with "suffering" which has nothing to do with the word.

(I realize that's going to sound pedantic to some. Tough. My forest. Mine!)

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To clarify: By "went through" I was speaking of the movement itself.

[Knowl Paine]

I thought this thread died.

Service to one's self, is self serving. With enough self-service, you won't need any person for anything.

Might as well stop having Babies, and just let the World carry on without Mankind.

 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

My comments were limited to my experiences with Extremely Noble in game.

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Ah. Well, then. How was anybody supposed to know that your post(s) were colored by your experiences with someone else who posted to the thread unless/until you said so?

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I still think women who fantasize about this stuff, and men need professional help.

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Because you deem it abnormal. Meanwhile, up to 62% of women have had a rape fantasy of some sort. (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj-persaud/womens-sexual-fantasies_b_1511322.html)

Who's abnormal now?

[Ceka Cianci]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Listen up, I could give a frig or a frack if SL bans this behaviour. Never did I say " Ban it!" My comments were limited to my experiences with Extremely Noble in game. I have dealt with his behaviour and abuse. I chose for myself to walk away. You are free to do as you please. I still think women who fantasize about this stuff, and men need professional help. I chose for myself to command respect from my male counterparts in both lives. Do as you wish. My forest is much better than yours!

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you keep saying your comments are limited to your experience but you keep on labeling others you don't know by your friends actions that you kicked to the curb..

anyways..my last comment on this and you won't have to hear me on this matter any longer..*winks*

 

" My forest is much better than yours!"

said the settlers to the natives..

i don't play the violence RP like some..it's not my thing..

but i respect their right to have those fantasies..you are free to think how you wish..but you are no better than anyone else..no matter how much you think you are..

your experience leads you to determine that someone was a freak..hey i'm not arguing that fact with you..he probably was..

it's great you put them to the curb..

 

but when you start looking at the book covers and paint jobs to make a judgement about a whole crowd of strangers..

you just became a little bit less insightfull about the world..

 

there is a difference when you say..this person was bad or a nut or not normal because of these things they did..compared to saying..all these people over here are nuts or bad or not normal because of this guy i knew that did these things i don't like..

you are gonna find THE forest didn't get better.it only got a bit smaller..

see because of people judging by the paint job..society gets held back rather than moves forward to get past silly prejudices..

your version of normal works for you..thats awesome..live it and enjoy it and let it be your guide for you..

but the second it gets thrown out there as the standard for everyone to follow..that's when it becomes a push and a shove to others that feel they have their own version of normal..

 if anyone were to try to push their version of normal onto you or anyone..i would have your back or anyones getting pushed around..

because you have your right to enjoy your version without judgement..

 

it's not about the actual fantasy being talked about here..it's about being able to do your own thing without someone pushing you around and becoming active about it because they don't like the thought of you in a place they consider their world..

when really it's everyones world..

 

it's one thing to not like it for yourself..it's another to transfer that to strangers that may do some things you don't like..

you really think your forest is better then mine? what you don't understand is ..it's one forest any many use it..choose not to see other parts of it..hey thats great for you..

start buring down other parts of it because you don't like those parts..and before you know it..there is no more forest..just an empty burnt up world from everyone lighting fires in everyone elses part they chose to enjoy..

if you feel this kind of thinking holds back progress for women..you may want to look into the history of the kind of thinking that judges the whole by the few..then see how far that has gotten us so far..

where are the natives now and where are the settlers?

they lost everything because of the settlers thinking there is only one version of normal..thier version..

 

well have a good day and enjoy your RL and SL..

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

I chose for myself to command respect from my male counterparts in both lives.

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Command respect? You chose to command respect? You don't get any respect by commanding it. Respect is something that has to be earned.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Some people have their private kink and that's their thing.

Public depictions of it - that I would ban.

I would have spliced 'A rating' differently. There are three different concerns:

sexuality

violence

violent sexuality

 

- these three mix poorly. A rated land is where you can go and expect to find all three out in the open. But a person who finds it disturbing to see misogynistic fantasies of others, yet who still wishes to explore sexual themes, or even explore violent themes - will find the blend of them very distasteful.

I once lived next to a person on Zindra who put up 4 corner posts on their land with photos of women in ropes bound so tight they were bleeding. A trick with makeup or photoshop one assumes - but still a very unpleasant experience to have that person as a neighbor.

"Someone chooses" that fantasy... fine. But don't force another to be exposed to it just because they desire a less violent but still sensual fantasy.

We don't need M rated land... most of us agree that's a messed up rating system. But we do need, IMO, 4 land ratings:

General

Sexually Mature/Explicit

Gore and Violence

Sexually Violent

 

- The last category is where all of the Gorean, BDSM (some forms that is - D/s is too complicated to say all or none), and so on belong. And if such a category were present, it would diffuse / prevent a lot of conflict that occurs when people of incompatable interests collide.

- Most of what M land gets used for, could fit the second and third camps, along with some people who want open sensuality, but one not based on oppression-fantasy. Some XXX 'beaches' for example. Many private home with 'enhanced' furnishings. Action RP sims that are not 'cartoony'. And even horror sims like 'Zombie' stuff.

Where it gets dicey is with groups like the CMNF subculture... they'd end up split down the middle depending on what drives a person into that subculture... but I guess not every community can win.

Certainly in the present system - most of them lose.

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

But what follows from that, Pussycat?   I mean, in RL there's plenty of different things that might earn a movie an R certificate, but people tend to be able to find out what a movie is about before they go to see it.    Similarly, I would have thought, in SL, it's reasonably easy to find out what most A-rated sims and parcels are about before visiting one.

Indeed, in my experience, anyway, sim owners tend to warn you at the arrivals point if you're likely to encounter anything too alarming.

Certainly, though, as someone who remembers the introduction of the "Adult Content" rating in SL and the forced migration to Zindra, the last thing I want is yet another land rating to worry about.

[Melita Magic]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Suffrage is not something anybody "went through" -- it's something people fought for and gained.  Otherwise it seems confused with "suffering" which has nothing to do with the word.

(I realize that's going to sound pedantic to some. Tough. My forest. Mine!)

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But you are absolutely right.

My own response to the topic question: Ban? No. Shun, avoid? Different question altogether.

I'd rather know why women still do not legally have equal rights (ERA never ratified, last checked) in the US, or why they still make little more than half what a man makes for the same work. But, it's a LOT better than it once was, when 'career women' (as well as being shunned/derided as "Dragon Ladies") were not promoted or taken seriously if they had children; were fired for being or becoming pregnant; could not even be considered for most jobs; and could not, if they chose, serve in active duty in the military. (Today's women coming up have tragically lost the concept or never learned it, that women had to actually fight for each one of those 'rights' which were mocked as even being within reach, within living memory.)

I may have some of the jargon wrong but I don't think the sentiment is.

 

Edited for weird formatting error

[Dresden Ceriano]

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JulesMatriarchy wrote:

I hereby propose the following amendments to the SL TOS.

It should be forbidden to:

Post, display or transmit Content that is obscene, misogyny, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

 

Post, display or transmit any material, object or text that encourages, represents, or facilitates sexual violence and abuse against women.

 

Let's start the debate.

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I hereby declare you a homophobe, simply because you did not include sexual orientation in your list.

...Dres *clutches his pearls*

P.S. Homophobes should be banned from SL.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

i wanna be boss of everything

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No sh!t.

...Dres

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Listen up, I could give a frig or a frack if SL bans this behaviour. Never did I say " Ban it!" My comments were limited to my experiences with Extremely Noble in game. I have dealt with his behaviour and abuse. I chose for myself to walk away. You are free to do as you please. I still think women who fantasize about this stuff, and men need professional help. I chose for myself to command respect from my male counterparts in both lives. Do as you wish. My forest is much better than yours!

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If you had simply walked away, you wouldn't be here posting derogatory comments about your fellow SL citizen.  I completely honor your choice in relationship to your partners and I'm more than happy that it works for you.  But, what works for you (what gets you off) is not the same as what works for everyone.

The OP believes that her preferences should be adhered to, over anyone else's... this is something with which I disagree, profusely.  I also disagree with your notion that rape fantasies are not normal... nor do I think that the individuals that have them need professional help.

Rape fantasies are about the giving and taking of complete control.  People play out rape fantasies all the time in RL... the very same people that would be devastated if they were to actually be raped.  The amount of trust that you must have in someone to let them make that fantasy become convincing in RL is major... some would even consider that type of connection to be beautiful.

As much as the BDSM enthusiasts in SL would like to believe it, it's completely impossible to give over complete control to someone in SL... in other words, it's impossible to really rape someone in SL.

So that takes care of that.. right?

Not really... there are those (and I can't speak for the OP, but I gather that this has to be part of the OP's thinking) that believe that the simulated depiction of rape will fuel certain individuals to perpetrate these unconscionable acts on actual people and not just avatars.  But why should the vast expanse of society have their sexuality suppressed because of the insanity of the few?  I don't buy it... and I never will.

...Dres

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Winter Tenenbaum wrote:

Im also gonna say tbis.... It's a real shame that so many women wen through womems sufferage so that ppl like this could set back the womens movement 100 years. Good job! Best of luck.

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Are you for real?  Suffrage was never about VW avatar rights... if you really want to do something for real women's rights, you're in the wrong place.

...Dres