This thread is ended

[Melita Magic]

Thank you, Tiffy.

I really do feel for all that the merchants and landlords and people who run sims, and groups, even, in SL sometimes put up with. There is a 'gimme now' attitude that can be very grating and draining and it seems to be growing in SL (or maybe RL) lately. Or maybe it's just me.

I tend to sound a bit formal in text too so I can empathise with that.

I also tend to over explain but I dont want to leave stones unturned, in case that one more thing might help someone. I have to watch that in myself as I can drain myself, without being aware of it.

I admire people who are patient with abuse. I would have a hard time putting up with abuse or irrational behavior even from paying customers, at least, on a regular basis. Everyone can have a bad day occasionally, of course. But then I never understand that type of behavior in real life either. Seems to be a lot of people out there for whom that behavior is standard. When it is a free gift or service provided gratis I find it galling, but, I think people do at times forget SL isn't a computer game and the other avatars are not NPCs.

Even offering a sim or freebies one can run into this type of behavior. Enough is not enough for some who you will cross paths with in SL (or also RL.) We have to create strong boundaries, especially those of us who tend to be 'softies' or endlessly patient. It's too bad those types of customers can't get a sense of perspective. They are arguing over something someone spent hours to make, gave them for free or for what amounts to a few cents in real money, is their day going to really be ruined if they can't adjust the prim? Can they not sleep on it and try tomorrow? Lol

The OP said:

  I try to talk to em for hours 

That in my opinion is way too long. You have a SL and a RL also and you deserve both; cut them off after ten minutes, tops, unless they have some legitimate impediment to understanding you.

For most I recommend a note card of instructions for common issues, and refer them to google if they need a translation.

ETA after reading OP's latest post: If you haven't yet (I do not look up profiles when people post here so I do not know), then, put a customer service panel in your picks or in the first page of your profile. State that you will attend to customer service issues as your personal time permits, and if they have not heard from you in (reasonable time - I would say 48 to 72 hours) to send you a new IM or new note card, in case it was capped. Break your customers of this feeling that you will jump to them the instant they command you to jump, or that you will spend hours begging them to listen. That is a coping skill - designed to prevent you having so much to cope with.  

Lastly, perhaps consider making an alt specifically to deal with 'customer service issues' and only log onto it when you feel ready to tackle complaints. That way you can also somewhat control the time frame when you are available. Make sure to put in your profile "please contact Hisa Jr for complaints..."

[HisaDrug]

oh yeaaa I really agree wit you about drawing a firm line between me n the customers. As a matter of fact, I do not have it yet. I just talk to em like friends n I believe thats where my problem evoked cos some ppl'd wanna abuse the fact that this owner is casual, not so goodie goodie, ya'knowww

I wanna have a good memory in SL n create good stuff to share wit others in a fair way, but its getting out of control since you cant filter yer customers from all over the world. all I can do is being polite, patient n doing the best i can to satisfy em. 

Being a shop keeper I feel like Ive become a begger for forgiveness...lol becos I have to apologise over n over for the malfunctioning products when they are in ready-to-sell good condition. So I had to blame the fact that they dont speak my language n just fire at me cos they are almight customers n worth all 50 Lindens for the service. So I just replace em for free n tell em dont get mad, cos its a part of the shopping process cos ppl arent as perfect as they'd expect. 

I'll take yer advise n do some hardwork to re-build a stronger persona to handle those noogies grrr... 

I never thought that this is quite a job but it has become a part of my life that I enjoy but suffer at the same time. 

[Melita Magic]

Good luck with it. 

I'd only add: don't apologize to them if it is their mistake. Tell them the truth firmly but politely, that the product is not defective, that it was the way it was edited by them. Replace the product happily, if that is your policy (have this policy, by the way, in a  note card with each product, on the wall of your shop and in your profile, if you do not already) and tell them where they can find a free class in editing prims, such as at NCI, if they express any interest in that, or any inkling they understood it was their fault.

But, don't apologize and don't befriend them. Be business like, and hope they will follow the boundary you set for them. If they don't - it is not worth that aggravation. Let them talk badly about you. It won't stick if they are just working up drama. People will see through it.

You should not be suffering at all in SL. If it isn't fun it isn't worth it. 

[HisaDrug]

yup again wit my own English lesson....grrrr

I speak okay, cos I speak properly when it comes to foreigners. I dont just attack em wit my drunk slangs n wotnot, I just talk this way cos I dont care to look smart to others. Im just me n being friendly. n this is getting ridiculous like Im at a trial giving out my pretext how im not a dumbass or smthing lol..... 

All i wanted to say is SOME CUSTOMERS ARE RUDE !

[Tiffy Vella]

Don't be downhearted. I think many here commented on your written style and profile because you said you were getting lots of rude people, so we looked at what could be causing that. I know I did, as I tried to put myself in the shoes of your customer...went to your MP store...looked....imagined I'd bought something...then imagined what I'd do if I needed to contact you...and there you have it.

People here may sometimes be a bit glib, but you will find that they want to help. We don't know you, and are probably judging you from the same level of intimacy that a first time customer does. That might be a valuble thing for you, or not...you might just decide that we are all arses. I can assure you that not everyone here is, and that the forum is a great place to learn.

I've made lots of forum threads and posts I regret and should have pulled   Usually after way way way too many wines. See there's another oops

[HisaDrug]

Okay, first of all, If my profile is obnoxious look at, I'll defo change it back. But i have a social community in SL wit my own groups n friends n I cant just adjust my profile n say 'Good customer service 24/7 Talk to me when you have a problem' like im at the kiosk waiting for ppl to come say hey you suck ! lol 

My store is for boys. Its very clear to public who my audience is. 

alot of girls would come n wear those n say, they look manly wit the hair, so thats one complaint I cant do anything about. 

Ok I'm not gonna start up another argument wit you becos this is becoming like a personal attack for no legit reason. You just wanted to aggravate me for yer own justification. Thats how i get it. I'll delete this post. Thanks for the feedback. 

[Tiffy Vella]

Hmm..I never thought we were arguing at all. I tried specific help and encouragement. Oh well. Best of luck.

[Sassy Romano]

Customer are very rarely angry, what many fail to do is separate a customers frustration from a personal attack.  Customers aren't usually attacking you but just expressing a frustration at something not working. (sometimes badly, sometimes it's taken badly through poor wording).

Many people should NEVER be customer facing, they lack the skills to do so.  It's not a criticism, it's just how it is, this is why organisations are made up of different skill sets but in SL, typically one person has to do it all and it doesn't always work.

My advice is to speak plain English, out go the colloquialisms, jokes, slang and keep sentence structure "proper".  As a native English speaker, i'm fully aware of all the syntax gymnastics that we perform and compared with some other more formal languages, swapping syntax all over the place doesn't help others correctly interpret sentences and plays havoc with translators.  Similarly, use enough words in a proper sentence with proper spelling, otherwise the translator doesn't have enough to work with.

Make friends with people who DO speak other languages then you can say to customers:-

"I am not able to help you, let me ask a friend who speaks both our languages to help us"

As far as actual customer complaint handling, I can't speak for you but as I said at the beginning, many creators take any complaint as a person insult, you have to step back and be objective.

Here's a typical dialogue that goes wrong:-

Customer: "I've bought this product but it doesn't work, I want my money back!"

Merchant: "Of course it works, lots of others have bought it, you should read the instructions"

(defensive attitude, barriers up, combat begins...)

Customer: "I have tried everything, I just want my money back"

Merchant: "It's a transfer permissions product, all sales are final sorry"

I could go on and on here but at this point the customer is already totally wound up.

Try this instead:-

Customer: "I've bought this product but it doesn't work, I want my money back!"

Merchant: "Ok, I understand there's an issue, if i'd bought something and found it didn't work, I too would want my money back or for the product to work.  We can nearly always resolve things and a refund isn't a problem but you bought the item because you wanted it, can we spend some time to get things working first?"

(Merchant accepts the customer viewpoint, empathises with the issue, states that all options are open)

From my experience both SL and RL, most customers have bought something because they actually want it and they want it to work.  My offer is very simple, if I can't make it work, I'll just refund regardless because there are that tiny proportion where there's a misunderstanding, it could be bad wording on the advert, something I don't have time to fix, or won't change product behaviour just to suit an edge case.  I'd far rather send someone away with a good customer experience.

Always remember, the easiest people to sell to, are existing customers.  It expensive to get new customers, far cheaper to keep them.

A customer who receives a bad experience will, on average, share that experience with at least 20 others.  A customer who receives a good experience shares that with far fewer.  I know which i'd rather aim for.

Anyway, I was going to write up more customer service things but there's loads documented on the web, this page lists several simple and effective techniques.

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/unhappy-customers.htm

[HisaDrug]

Not argument perhaps but its weird to me that you look at my personal profile n present it to public n say you wrote oh fuk this fuk that, thats gonna affect yer customers. 

Sure I agree wit you if thats the case. But customers would contact the shop owners no matter not, cos of the products, not based on how the shop owner wrote his profile. Thats just a really ridiculous thing to say. My post is about HOW THEY DONT COOPERATE ME COS THEY HAVE NO PATIENCE TO LISTEN TO ME IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not me, not the owner, not the shop keeper who has no patience. This is like repeating myself over n over n this is so strange !!! lol

Yer first few posts were very helpful I appreciated very much. I even copied n pasted em on my memo so I can look at it again, n then idk now I need to change my profile n how i think out loud or how to behave n how to speak properly like a public speaker just becos I have a shop? Im a friendly person no matter how strange my profile might look to some ppl, most of the time ppl dont even look at it. If they did they woulda stumbled upon my feed to look at the pictures. 

Now I understand this forum is just a personal exposure n set out for flaws becos ppl wanna look at the negative than positive. But I'll really end it up at this point n im sorry if i sounded harsh but take a look at all those ridiculous replies. on top of that now ppl sniff at my profile n say ok Im doing it wrong becos some shyt I wrote, n its gonna affect my personality. 

well not really. 

 

 

[HisaDrug]

Thanks alot !

I'll look into the link now. 

[Tiffy Vella]

Sassy..you put that so well..it's what I've been learning gradually, but don't know how to say it Lots of my SL customers are in the US, but that's not my culture..not what I grew up with. Here in my RL, customers are a lot more passive, and don't complain. It was hard at first in SL, and a lot more challenging because that's how many US customers are. They confront. They force me to meet issues, and I've grown to really appreciate that. I don't appreciate rudeness, of course, but I do like a customer who states what they like, if it's honest feedback and not entitlement. It makes me get better.

[HisaDrug]

ah ok sorry

[Sassy Romano]

Tiffy was replying to me. 

[Luc Starsider]

The thing is. You presented an issue regarding rude customers. NON-ENGLISH speaking cutomers. IN TEXT-SPEAK??? As a non-english speaker - and as you have guessed, there are many around here - I found your OP fairly incomprehensible, and reminiscent of some teenager who hate their parents and think they are all stupid and stuff. It did not invite a whole lot of serious discussion on customer treatment, I found.

Further, if you present your issues this lazily, how are we to believe you when you say you treat customers differently. I have a hard time doing that.

But you're right, some customers are rude. Regardless of nationality or language - as I said in my previous post. MOST are not, though, and if you find most of your customers rude, I suggest you look as objectively as you can at the way you conduct your business, and try to change what you find is the reason they fly off in your face. And this is meant as serioius advice btw.

[Tiffy Vella]

---

HisaDrug wrote:

Not argument perhaps but its weird to me that you look at my personal profile n present it to public n say you wrote oh fuk this fuk that, thats gonna affect yer customers. 

"Yes, it will. I'm sorry to say that. Even though I'm trying to support you here, because you asked. Shoot the messenger."

Sure I agree wit you if thats the case. But customers would contact the shop owners no matter not, cos of the products, not based on how the shop owner wrote his profile. Thats just a really ridiculous thing to say. My post is about HOW THEY DONT COOPERATE ME COS THEY HAVE NO PATIENCE TO LISTEN TO ME IN THE FIRST PLACE. Not me, not the owner, not the shop keeper who has no patience. This is like repeating myself over n over n this is so strange !!! lol

"Customers reach you through your profile, and everything that is written in it. That is how SL manages it, and it's the first thing people see. I am not ever judging your life.We all deserve fun. We all have private lives. Yes, it's not right that you get judged on how you present yourself. This is why so many merchants have alts. Here's the secret..make an alt. Decide which acount to run your business on, and give that one the respectable profile, with lovely English and no feisty personal stuff. And yes some customers are **bleep**. We know that. We all swap hugs for that

"

Yer first few posts were very helpful I appreciated very much. I even copied n pasted em on my memo so I can look at it again, n then idk now I need to change my profile n how i think out loud or how to behave n how to speak properly like a public speaker just becos I have a shop? Im a friendly person no matter how strange my profile might look to some ppl, most of the time ppl dont even look at it. If they did they woulda stumbled upon my feed to look at the pictures. 

"I want to be helpful, because I can tell that you aren't a horrible person, and certainly not untalented, or anything like that. I think you are nice, and try to do the right thing by your customers. You care and want to learn."

Now I understand this forum is just a personal exposure n set out for flaws becos ppl wanna look at the negative than positive. But I'll really end it up at this point n im sorry if i sounded harsh but take a look at all those ridiculous replies. on top of that now ppl sniff at my profile n say ok Im doing it wrong becos some shyt I wrote, n its gonna affect my personality. 

"Forums are just that..an open opportunity. I see that as a gift. They offer truth, and also silliness, and great support."

 

 

Sorry I dont know how to do multiple quotes. I suck.

[161488303349]

---

HisaDrug wrote:

Thanks alot !

I'll look into the link now. 

---

you onto it. listen to people like Sassy. she knows

main thing is that majority of people on SL who got lots of money to spend are older people. old people are quite formal and sometimes they get a bit annoyed if you txtspk in chat and talk street on voice at them when dealing with money issues

money is serious business, so you have to be a little bit more serious, like formal, in how you express yourself as well when talking about it with them

[161488303349]

ps. i just add here

when you dealing with non-english speakers then have to remember that lots of them will be using google translator.

if you using txtspk then it comes out on there side as garble garble. google and others already garble quite a lot of formal english already. and txtspk makes a not good situation even worse for them

[Tiffy Vella]

Yes, 16

You are spot on re the translators.

I use google translator when needed. It's not perfect but helps so much I find it best when sentences are short, and contain only one idea.

[HisaDrug]

Yeah this is a serious issue so I may talk like a business man now. 

What you're saying is all correct. And as a matter of fact I do not talk like a streeter when it comes to customer service. How many times do I have to explain I was being casual about the post itself? 

I don't really have an inkling about how other shop owners handle their business mainly because I'm very focused on my own work and creation and handling people, so I just wanted to get the idea what kinda feedbacks I could get from this forum. But yeah, as you can see, what all the people were talking about is English and how important grammar is when it was just a casual thread I opened just for the shop owners who may or may not have the similar experience with some people they had dealt with. And I deleted this post (well removed the text itself) because this had become a battle who's better in English and who isn't. And some personal attack when it shouldn't be that way. 

I learned in the hard way that people are very mean in general haha. I've never experienced forum dynamics before, so I really didn't know how to deal with all those remarks and comments about the personal matters directed to the thread when the subject is really about other things. 

[Sassy Romano]

---

HisaDrug wrote:

I learned in the hard way that people are very mean in general haha. I've never experienced forum dynamics before, so I really didn't know how to deal with all those remarks and comments about the personal matters directed to the thread when the subject is really about other things. 

---

I don't feel there was any "mean-ness" intended.  A question was asked and opinions given.

Someone once commented on a part of my profile from a business perspective, I thought about it and reflected on the way that it might have come across and changed it.

Again, it goes back to what I tried to illuminate in my post.  Don't take things personally, step back and see things from a more objective light.

Forums will inevitably solicit what might appear to be adversarial comments when in fact they're not intended that way but like it or not, you'll always get a difference of opinion.

[Tiffy Vella]

I've been talking like a businessperson to you from the start, and never any malice intended; quite the opposite, but I fear you aren't listening. Now you are frustrating me, and I have to take my own advice and take a deep breath, haha.

We all get horrible customers, just sometimes. I think they happen more and more, generally in sl, but it's also a rl thing. I run a rl business too, and notice that my customers aren't so nice anymore...they aren't the small town familiar polite people anymore, and that's hard. I find that at the quoting stage, people are arses, but once they've accepted it's not so bad and they turn human again

It's happening in sl too, and to be honest it's way easier to deal with them here.

Forums are handy. There's a few I pop into daily SL-wise for my news and to discuss issues. You might find them useful

[HisaDrug]

Let me ask you a question Luc. 

Why are you so fixated with the subject of dealing with Non-English speakers? Did I say I treat them differently because of the language barrier? 

If I had some kinda prejudice against them, how would you describe my eager to help them in a more efficient way or handling method? Please answer those questions... because I'm about to pass out from this thread cos people are so narrow minded about just one subject of this English thing. This is just really stupid in my book. 

If i saw a post like this, i would straightahead go for the main reason why this person wrote this post, not correcting his grammar or how imperfect he is. I wouldn't judge a bit but hey that's me. I'm only a newcomer to this whole dynamics and you should know better since you seem to have a good sense of this place. 

I admit I was being casual with my post, and now I'm being punished for being casual? Just because I was being casual with my text, it presents my whole personality and how I treat my customers??? This is ridiculous. You should be aware of your bluntness may give some people like me a wrong impression you're being judgmental and trying to poke the wrong part of the leg. That's all. 

 

[HisaDrug]

Yeah Paula, I feel you. I have this problem since forever...because mostly they are newbies without proper knowledge how to wear stuff. Language barrier is just brutal sometimes.... often times they just push the aggression up against you. That's gottto be a pain in the neck. 

[Czari Zenovka]

---

HisaDrug wrote:

I'll just delete this post as soon as I can becos I think theres no point of presenting new prejudice among others,

cos most of the users in SL are customers, not shop owners so they wouldnt really understand this type of dilemma as a shop keeper

, n how excruciating it is to deal wit ppls diverse needs at once. 

Thanks again for paying attention to this post.

---

(Emphasis mine)  In the future you may want to post merchant issues on the Merchant Forum.  I'm actually surprised the moderator didn't move this post there.

 

[HisaDrug]

Well It was about customer service but it was really about the general discussion about interaction with the customers, and how some personal problems evoke from dealing with them so they didn't move my post to there.