RANT

[Coventina Dalgleish]

Oh joy another server upgrade, or is it down grade, one would think after almost 10 years this thing would be out of beta.

Last time I posted I was having horrible fps when accessing search everyone wanted to know what my system is and was that actually makes little difference as it works before the upgrade then fails after. Search began to function properly after 2 weeks  wonder of wonders.

 

This last entry into the ever ongoing , we think we know how to code and we think all the switches are set properly has resulted in an old problem again raising its head objects disappear on rez and also in previously constructed items this happens in the cool viewer the firestorm viewer and the official Linden viewer. This is not a problem with my hardware, my cache, my video card, or my 40 mbps connection this is another case of throwing slop out the door and waiting to see who complains. The last truely stable viewer was ver 6.0 after this time coding was delegated to those who had an idea how to do it but lacked the technical expertise to effectivly apply the knowledge. W-HAT???

LL it is time to work the bugs from your releases before you again force me to take a sabatical from the game.

 

I have been here since 2005 and have seen many great inovations the only problem is they never work on the primary release it seems to take several weeks before what we wanted to do becomes what what actually functions.

Maybe this is why Phillip went off on other tangents I really do not know but lately, as in the past, chaos reigns.

 

I noticed also after the last update that mesh loads as it wishes if I get a calculation it might upload but then again it might just sit there trying to hatch a granite egg but then again it might calculate or give me a mav block error  but then on a recalc success with identical settings.  This is just sloppy but then....

 

I am on old tech equipment but the fastests p4's and video made for that platform with the maximum memory allowed under XP I normally attain 30 to 45 fps under the cool viewer , 20 to 30 on Firestorm and 15 to 25 on the Official LL viewer cache cleaned several time a week because it defaults to a 50% load of my inventory I do feel like my platform is being phased out but in all honesty the game no longer warrants the expense of upgrading equipment. Perhaps if the economy was on a level of 3 or 4 years ago it would make sense but in the last two years it has been a question of consolidation to remain viable rather than expansion. This of course reflects the world economy but SL has returned to the status of an enjoyable past time not a profit center.

 

Thus it would be nice if the game would function properly from update to update and stop being a true PITA

 

LL you do know there are plenty of out here that would BETA the new upgrades if you asked and granted some renumiration for the effort. As long as you use the general population for your BETA releases this situation will not improve.

 

So for now I am off for a week or so to wait for the programmers to figure out which switch they forgot to set properly

[Cully Andel]

I'm not a techie nor am I a programmer but you missed a couple there.

I, too, am running on a laptop which is all of 3 years old. I can only use coolviewer to log in now, and no one has yet given me a satisfactory answer, nor provided me with the money, as to why I shouild have to get a new graphics card for something I've been using for 4 years now. And get a gaming machine just for SL? If I had the money to afford that then I wouldn't need SL.

We also have the 'let's rush things in without getting them fully tested' which has led to the current panic over excessive downloads. This one is simply beyond belief too. Either roll back until it's fixed, or turn it off until it's fixed. Restricting paying users is never a good business idea.

And dont forget the customer service. Then again that's actually easy to forget.

I do agree, Coventina, that every one blames us when something goes wrong because our machines blah blah blah, and yes a couple of weeks later things miraculously return to normal. So, then, not us.

My main problem is a very simple one. Communication. I didn't agree when Rodvik started using communication tools outside of this forum, but at least there was an avenue for communication. Now it seems that he, too, no longer wishes to keep the users, and fee payers, informed of anything. I've just read somewhere else on the forum, that new members can benefit from a 50% reduction in membership fees. Just once it would be nice to remember that there are loyal, long standing customers here already who may appreciate some consideration in return for their loyalty. No use getting plenty of new members, when the lag, crashes, and excessive bandwidth will not keep them. So much better to make sure bugs are ironed out before offering these so called incentives - you get a much better retention rate if you do.

 

[Echo Hermit]

I try to reason with myself when I feel I'm being pushed out of SL because of all the new features and technological 'advances'.  Televisions, refrigerators, washing machines, they all have a shelf life, but at least with a computer it is often possible to just replace a graphics card and power supply; it's not necessary to buy a whole new gaming computer (and even those who do aren't guaranteed compatibility with Second Life).

Those who are involved in making the improvements to Second Life obviously have machinery that is bought and paid for by LL, or at least must get a decent allowance towards it, and so they really can't understand why there are rather a lot of us that don't have a budget to upgrade at the drop of a hat.

Some days I feel like ranting; other days I think it might be time to get myself a different hobby.  It's just I'd rather it be my own choice when I go than to feel I've been pushed because I'm/my equipment is just not good enough any more.

I can read in my own post that I am contradicting myself "I love Ross, I hate Ross, I love SL, I hate SL".

I blame it on the boogie. :matte-motes-dont-cry:

[Cincia Singh]

1. Prospective upgrades and new features are in beta ON the beta grid. Imagine that.

2. Upcoming LL Viewer changes are available to try out; they're called Development Viewers and anyone can try them. LL also has beta viewers and project viewers anyone can try out.

3. The SL grid will always be in beta because there's no such thing as an "off the shelf" virtual world that works for every computer, on every connection, regardless of the hardware being used.

3. You're running Windows XP, a Pentium 4 cpu, and a video card just as old. Your platform has been phased out of support by the manufacturers of the equipment? My hardware is much newer but I'm not "wealthy" or even well off. I "do" scratch and save a little here and there so I can upgrade my system a bit at a time so I can continue to enjoy my hobby (SL). I assume the same is done by people whose hobby is radio controlled cars or planes, stamp collecting, comic book reading/collecting, playing video games and etc.

4. You want to be paid to test things LL is planning to bring to the grid? Really? Seriously? Thank you for the chuckle and please let me know when Microsoft, Intel, AMD, or NVidia pay you to beta test their new products and projects so I can sign up too.

Wow ... just wow.

[Rhys Goode]

Sounds an awful lot like a connection issue.  I was in a hotel last week, with a 10mbps download wifi link that worked just great for web browsing, streaming music and video, but it gave me high packet loss (10-20%) when I tried to use it for SL.  Got most of the symptoms you talk about in your post, plus a few more.  Ever see what happens when your boots end up attached to your HUD?  So check your browser, under help, about.  THere will be a packet loss summary, and if its >~1%, the connection could be a lot of your problem.

Also, when I had an XP computer, and was trying to nurse SL along on it, it helped a lot if I closed all background programs, and reduced the size of my cache from 512 to 256 M.  With only aboout 3.6 M of RAM, SL could easily get into a lot of read/write to disk with the larger cache size, causing fps to plummet.

[Coventina Dalgleish]

Well I knew there would be some support and some interesting cons to my post but

 

1. Prospective upgrades and new features are in beta ON the beta grid. Imagine that.

Yes I have been on the beta grid where a viewer should stay until ready for prime time

2. Upcoming LL Viewer changes are available to try out; they're called Development Viewers and anyone can try them. LL also has beta viewers and project viewers anyone can try out.

Have used many of them in the last 7 years most have interesting features but they are normally advanced to the main grid before their time

You're running Windows XP, a Pentium 4 cpu, and a video card just as old......

Xp is still supported the ATI 3850 is still supported yes the processor is old in relative terms but certainly out performs many of the laptops sold today as state of the art and I said nothing about being paid LL never does that but there are perks that could be offered.

Intel and Microsoft do pay beta testers  this is obviously never offered to the general public but then LL compares poorly to either of the afore mentioned organizations.

 

as far as a connection problem that another person mentioned I am on the East coast US ping, jitter, bandwidth, and speed test from Kansas city east reflect very good times using most of the capability of my connection. Tests to California and Texas show much slower times most of the time.

I suppose you could call me a techie as I made my living from this area for 30 years and I am very familier with the construction of this thing we call computers as I began on an IBM 1603 with Fortran.

Data in game last night when I was again experiencing problems 0 packet loss and a ping to the server of 83ms no excessive bandwith problems since I am on a private estate with no neighbors. It is also interesting that my problems will and have gone away many times a week or so after a new upgrade is released.

When things are working properly I can use the latest V3 Linden viewer on high settings with acceptable FPS and little lag so while the equipment is not state of the art it is certainly within the guide lines for successful use.

The use of the cache is also another area of concern as it does not efficiently utilize the data and it is very subject to defragmentation thus it lives on its own fast 120 gig drive in my case so that it is easy to repair.

Bugs in this game when not affecting the main game play are very slow to be addressed. After 6 years finally LL has researched the default hand animations over riding priority 4 animations. This is a subject I originally put in the JIRA in 2006 and finally enough individuals made enough noise and a fix was implemented

 

Do not take this wrong I do enjoy the game a lot and I realize that it is a business and it does cost money to keep the programmers running in their hamster wheels but it does become frustrating when one day everything is just fine and the next (after updates) everything goes to hell in a handcart only to magically return after a period of time. Gee maybe my old processor is getting smarter hehe  thats it

[Sephy McCaw]

First of all I would just like to point out the SL is not a game and never has been, there is no goal there is no achievements or the likes, it is for the better of words a social program.

It requires more resources from your system then any thing else... running on 5+ year old hardware is just not going to cut it, if the fps you are getting does not suit your needs then you need to upgrade simple as that.

No one has told you that you need to buy the best gear for your system to upgrade you could buy the 2 generations behind the current and it will still perform better then what you have. 

As for problems your experiencing of things disappearing... It could have been the viewer you were using, sl could have been under some stress as in a grid update, the sim you were on could of been having difficulties.... Since you've been working in the ?IT industry for 30 years? You should know not everything works 100% of the time... and also that if you can't find anyone else with the problem then yes... It's probably is you.

Also for the viewer side.... LL only release a viewer once a month... They don't had new things all the time mostly they are bug fixes.. Plus you can check the release notes before trying it out to see what they did.... My advice to you is to stick with old viewer 1 for your old hardware.

 

[Cully Andel]

Maybe if LL offered viewer 1 as a download it would help, but how can you  use V1 when you get messages telling you you have to update and then you can't log in if you dont? It is indeed an option for older machines and one which I think      should be considered.

And forgive me but why should anyone be forced to update to use SL? I hear it so often but not one person explains why. After all if it's a toss up between spending money you maybe don't have or logging in to SL, then SL will lose out and therefore lose custom.  ie. they lose a chunk of custom.

It was been pointed out that they programme on business machines, with ultimate specs. Graphics are improving as a result, but I know of very few people in world who can actually benefit from being able to use high graphics. That's the main reason I can't use the official viewers anymore.

 

 

[Coventina Dalgleish]

Semantics Is not the focus of this discussion call it what you like to me it falls in the catagory of a game with a lot of 3D social networking.

I dispute the fact that 5 year old hardware does not cut it as it out performs an Intel Duo Core with Nvidia 9600 graphics.

This comparison is based on a long association with another who had that set up we experienced the same conditions in most situations

 

The point I was attempting to make was that the server upgrades appear to include small mistakes that affect the quality of experience, game , social interaction.

The V1 viewer has a finite life span especially with the addition of normal and specular mapping slated for the near future.

 

The logic of the server upgrades is simple. The day before everything is working well, the day after it is like I have a 20 MHZ 8080 processor rather than  a 3.6 gig ex running at 4.0.

 

Perhaps I also did not explain the items that disappear they are physically there the texture becomes alpha and can be re triggered on edit but then returns to the alpha state. For example on a mesh body upload the head will go alpha with nice round floating eyeballs ) this occurs in the latest LL viewer , Firestorm, and Cool VL so it indicate that it has not been created on the viewer side.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

The logic of the server upgrades is simple. The day before everything is working well, the day after it is like I have a 20 MHZ 8080 processor rather than  a 3.6 gig ex running at 4.0.

 

Perhaps I also did not explain the items that disappear they are physically there the texture becomes alpha and can be re triggered on edit but then returns to the alpha state. For example on a mesh body upload the head will go alpha with nice round floating eyeballs

) this occurs in the latest LL viewer , Firestorm, and Cool VL so it indicate that it has not been created on the viewer side.

---

I've noticed sims running slower right after a significant server change for a while, but they often seem to get back up to speed in a few days without any changes being made to them. It may be a case of rebuilding cache and having scripted items re-set.

The disappearing items sounds like a pure viewer issue. There's little difference in the rendering engines between viewers - third party viewers basically take the Linden Lab engine and include it intact. It's pretty common for a viewer to temporarily fail to render something. Also, if it's mesh there's an adjustable limit to the number of mesh items that can be rendered at once.

[Coventina Dalgleish]

Yes well I again went in and changed all the triple buffering and vsync settings to correct the problem seems I have to do this when someone forgets to flip a switch it has happened before sometimes it works well with it off  then again other times with it all turned on. I do know they have a lot of flags that have to be set properly for the system to work properly and it is easy to miss one

[Sigren Panthar]

Your rant is justified.   I had a custom PC made 6 months ago for SL( AFTER using a 9 year old PC with intel graphics that actually worked pretty good, considering...but v2 viewer made an upgrade necessary).

Until 9days ago, this rig worked brilliantly, fps on Nirans viewer was in the 40's to 60's on high, flying warbugs was a smooth, fun experience.  Textures gorgeous, draw distance to 200.  Wonderful.

BUT........ for the last 9 days, I may as well have been back on my old PC!   Had the abysmal performance been a day or two, I could have accepted it was my connection, but not for 9 days.   The connection was fine, however.

Now. Suddenly. I am almost back to the performance I had before this 9 day snail experience.  My side? Don't think so. The problems were almost certainly whatever LL was doing of late, no ifs or buts about it.

My equipment, my side of the bargain :matte-motes-smile: is quite consistent; LL's is anything but.

One would think they are trying to chase us all away! 

[Coventina Dalgleish]

Uh HUH guess what another rolling restart and all of a effn sudden some brain whiz flipped a flag and mesh now rezzes my oh my system one might think they would hire some individuals who could monitor the releases before slapping them on the population. Sorry this is just sloppy programming I am sure none of them have ever tried to qualify a product for the FDA not that they are settler performers but this type of lack luster performance could and would not be acceptable. Please, after almost 10 years. pay attention. Maybe they do not really care I do not know but it has been like this since version 6, amateur hour, and all of you old folks what happened then (W-HAT). I hate to say it before the last rolling the LL viewer was giving me the best performance now it ranks third again but I can live with it  even though it liked to drop partial mesh constructions. Seems to me they have a conflict of some type it either works exceptionally well or just gets assigned to a third level viewer. It is really a shame because even with all the grade school graphics and heavily nested menus it was working well. When the viewers were simple and easy to use they were a pleasure now I have to grind my mind wondering where did some rock scientist hide the most important tools for builders, my mind is growing old and does not like Easter egg hunts for simple tools. Ah yes where did the tools menu go )) duh how simple was it.

 

How about another roll and fix all the nit picking problems LL  turn on all the important flags  and impress us for a change make it work as intended without all the hiding behind the excuse it is your Pile of S system.

 

It does show flashes of brilliance over shadowed by total incompetence on a continuing basis

 

It is the finest of of creations 

 

I do love it when it works and I do despise it when it does not