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How is the selling of and unlimited public use of top movies for L$450 legal in Second Life


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I would be interested in the views of anyone with any sound and accurate knowledge in this area. I have extensively researched this subject and I stare in wonder as I watch Linden Lab allow this apparently illegal pirating to run under their noses. When I can buy say, The Hunger Games, for $L450 (Approx £1.20) at a SL video store and watch it forever and show it to the public and have the pleasure of its awful quality in Second Life, when I can buy the movie for £13.99 (L$5500 approx) for my own private use say at BlockBusters, I know something is not right.  These SL movie selling places offer something like 1600 movies to buy.  I think this whole area is a considerable amount of potential illegal commerce that Linden Lab is facilitating. 

Thoughts anyone?

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Sound accurate knowledge on this subject I do not have, but this kind of thing coming up in the news might shed a little bit of light on what potential future lawsuits LL or individuals within may be letting themselves in for ...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=f&oq=%22richard+o'dwyer%22&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADRA_enGB400GB400&q=%22richard+o'dwyer%22&gs_upl=0l0l0l4191lllllllllll0

But then I go over to youtube and access just about anything I want to view, and I'm pretty sure a lot of copyright infringement is going on over there. 

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LL will only get involved is the copyright holder files a DMCA. The movie companies have no access to what is being sold within SL as opposed to what is on the MP. Anything sold on the MP can be seen by a google search, which is why some things get DMCAed. Perhaps you should send a chain of letters to these various companies letting them know what is going on and let their lawyers deal with LL.

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  • 1 month later...

Illegal… No not by far. For starters. You are not paying for the movie; you are paying for the bandwidth you are using to view the movie. Second, the movie store you are referring to purchases there movies legally as an on line movie vendor and adds them to their servers for you to view, just like all the other online sites. Including Blockbuster, Netflix, Hulu, Exc. That  is great that you can purchase movies in real life and have them to own, but you cannot do so and watch that movie with your friends and loved ones half way around the world.  If you had done a lot of research in this matter you would not have posted this on the blog… MAKE SURE BEFORE YOU POST TO A BLOG YOU HAVE RESERCHED THE TOPIC YOU ARE POSTING ON. It is obvious to me that you have not done research and you know nothing about media use in Secondlife, you do not own the movie and you are not downloading anything. You are not allowed to keep the movie for future use. You are paying for access to watch the movie and that is it. Owning a movie store in Secondlife is a very expensive and complex business to own, just so people can watch movies with their friends and loved ones from all over the world. Oh and by the way WE pay the band with every time you view a movie from our server. It is repeat customers that keep  “Our legal and legit business” open….

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  • 5 months later...

No your buisness is not legit unless you are paying royalites for each view of the streamed material like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and iTunes.  Just because  you purchased a copy of a video does not give you the ability to resell the viewing via streaming. If you believe what you are doing to be legit, check out the cases against TVShack and MegaV_ _ _ _..

Simply the price you are charging for each video streamed is telling that you are not paying the royalties.  

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They do pay royalties for each time a movie is streamed, which is why video stores in SL have in their TOS that the movies aren't for public viewing, the assumption made is that no one is going to watch a movie dozens upon dozens of times here. How much do you think it costs"legit" companies to stream a two hour movie, real cost to them, not what they charge the consumer?

"Simply the price you are charging for each video streamed is telling that you are not paying the royalties." 

Blockbuster On Demand costs 1.99 USD per movie rental. That's legit and give or take a few pennies, about the same as the average movie to "purchase" in SL. So really, the cost to purchase movies in SL doesn't tell much about whether royalties are paid.

 

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Your assumption that I was basing my argument solely on pirating is incorrect.  That was a singular reply to your statement that they were legit solely because their TOS said they were legit.  

I have stated my argument was based upon statements made by companies like Netfilx, Hulu, Amazon, and the like when asked about why they stream some movies and not others.  Also, my argument was based off of real cases involving companies that were streaming movies illegally and those sites that only posted links to illegal streaming sites. 

The only erronous assumptions were made by your posts.  I stated clearly that the costs involved in obtaining licenses to stream are extremely costly to the effect that the amount of titles offered by these companies go against what has been stated officially by the top streaming sites and that the amount charged by the SL video streaming sites does not cover both the streaming costs and the licencing fees.  

I never claimed that they were not legit, just that what they are charging goes contrary to the top streamers have officially stated.

 

 

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I didn't say they were legit solely because their TOS said they were legit, I said "They do pay royalties for each time a movie is streamed, which is why video stores in SL have in their TOS that the movies aren't for public viewing." They have that in their TOS because they pay to stream them legitimately, and because it costs them each time a movie is streamed, they do not want dozens of people watching a movie sold for 450L dozens of times because each time it is watched, it eats into their profits for one, and for another, goes against some of the licensing agreements they have with the distributers they use.

"I never claimed that they were not legit, just that what they are charging goes contrary to the top streamers have officially stated."  No, your exact words are  "Simply the price you are charging for each video streamed is telling that you are not paying the royalties."

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here is a quote from a legal q&A site about online video rentals..

"Can I Digitize Copyrighted Videos that I Own and Offer Them to the Public Via Streaming or Downloading over the Internet?

No, unless it has been authorized by the copyright holder. Because digitizing videos involves copying them, a reproduction license is needed from the copyright holder in order to digitize copyrighted videos and offer them electronically over the Internet."

i highly doubt that these SL stores have received this approval from each and every production company.

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Just a couple of random points here responding to the thread in general.   I may be reiterating a few points already made.  In no particular order of importance.

 

1.  We don't know if the service (because technically that is what these stores are, a service) have obtained the proper permissions.  While the pricing may look suspicious,to simply judge by price would be an assumption.

2.  You are not purchasing a hard copy of the Movie.  You are purchasing a right to view.  Similar to the Pay Per View services offered by companies like Netflix.

3.  Not For Public Broadcast refers primarily to Commercial use.  I could invite all my neighbors to come watch a video with me but if I charged them to watch I could find myself in heaps of trouble.  At least here in the States, bars, pubs, retail stores, etc pay higher rates for cable because of the public viewing.

(I worked 15 years in Music and Video distribution for retail sale.  We provided special compilation discs to the stores that specific permission was obtained for the content used.  Technically and legally speaking, the stores could not just open any video or music CD they wanted to play In Store because that would constitute "public viewing."  They had to use the discs we provided them.  Part of my job description was attempting ;) to enforce this.)

4.  As we all know, only the copyright owner can file a DCMA complaint.  The Movie and Music labels are pretty aggressive in pursuing offenders.  But here comes the touchy part.

The content is not hosted on the SL Servers nor does it pass through them.  When you access  Movies or Music using the SL Viewer, you make a direct connection from your computer to the server streaming the movie or music.  What you are doing is using the software (SL Viewer) to 'play' this content.  So technically speaking, a take down notice can not be filed by the Labels with SL.

However, knowing how a Court would rule about LL allowing the sale of a streaming service in SL would be anyone's guess as far as my knowledge of the subject goes.  If the provider of the movie or music stream does not have proper permission (licensing), my guess is that a Court would order LL to "disable the Store."  But that is a guess.

5.  I doubt very much that LL would act on its own accord with out a Court Ruling.  While LL can at its own discretion cancel any account at any time for any or no reason at all, it is not in their best interests to act as Judge and Jury in these matters.

6.  A take down notice could be filed against any images from the movies being displayed in the Stores.  That data would be hosted on the SL servers.

 

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