What is the difference between Second Life and Inworldz?

[Alicia Sautereau]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Violet Woller wrote:

IF IT WAS THAT ILLIGAL THAN WHY IS IT IN SECONDLIFE?? THEY HAVE A WHOLE SIM WITH THE HEADQUARTERS DO LINK AVIS AND ALL THAT CONNECTION STUFF AND THE ATM´S AND IF IT IS THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THEN THEY HAVE PERMISSION FOR IT

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I can't speak for Alicia, only myself.  I could be wrong.  Based on my understanding of the TOS and TPE's it sounds like a violation to me.  But LL is the final decision maker on this.

 

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Violet Woller wrote:

AND IF IT IS THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THEN THEY HAVE PERMISSION FOR IT

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Those are what we call "final last words."

It is the equivalent of saying, "If everyone is doing it, then it must be OK."

Me personally, I don't care and I don't consider playing Cop on the Grid part of my SL Life.

I'm mostly very surprised to learn of this.

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Why the TPE`s changed their terminals to return deposited funds immediately, LL banned the exchange and under that also falls exchanging it for other fake currency instead of USD.

That exchange sure will thank you for clarifying that they are allowed to do this for us dummies, maybe you will get a bonus if they remain open as they will be the only ones with permission to keep operating as an exchange.

[Perrie Juran]

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Alicia Sautereau wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Violet Woller wrote:

IF IT WAS THAT ILLIGAL THAN WHY IS IT IN SECONDLIFE?? THEY HAVE A WHOLE SIM WITH THE HEADQUARTERS DO LINK AVIS AND ALL THAT CONNECTION STUFF AND THE ATM´S AND IF IT IS THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THEN THEY HAVE PERMISSION FOR IT

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I can't speak for Alicia, only myself.  I could be wrong.  Based on my understanding of the TOS and TPE's it sounds like a violation to me.  But LL is the final decision maker on this.

 

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Violet Woller wrote:

AND IF IT IS THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE THEN THEY HAVE PERMISSION FOR IT

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Those are what we call "final last words."

It is the equivalent of saying, "If everyone is doing it, then it must be OK."

Me personally, I don't care and I don't consider playing Cop on the Grid part of my SL Life.

I'm mostly very surprised to learn of this.

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Why the TPE`s changed their terminals to return deposited funds immediately, LL banned the exchange and under that also falls exchanging it for other fake currency instead of USD.

That exchange sure will thank you for clarifying that they are allowed to do this for us dummies, maybe you will get a bonus if they remain open as they will be the only ones with permission to keep operating as an exchange.

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Let me rephrase what I said.

I know what the rules are and I'd be shocked to find out that LL considered what this TPE is doing is OK.

[Alicia Sautereau]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

*snip*

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Sorry Perrie, it just happend that it was your quote I extended apon, but it was ment along side your text to Violet

[Violet Woller]

IM JUST SAYING THAT THE ATM TERMINALS FOR THE DEPOSITING FUNDS FROM SL TO IW IS IN SL AND THE WHOLE OF IW IS FULL OF THOSE ATM TERMINALS FOR IT SO I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IF IT IS WRONG WHY IS IT IN SL?? THEY HAVE THE DAMN WHOLE INWORLDZ CONNECTION CENTER IN SL TOO , SO IF IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE WHY IS IT?? CAN ANYONE ANSWER THAT ?? INSTEAD OF SENDING ME HATE MESSAGES?? GO CHECK THE SIM FOR YOUR SELVES THEN SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT

[Violet Woller]

GO TO SEARCH IN YOUR SL GAME SCREEN AND TYPE INWORLDZ AND THERE IT IS THE SIM TO GO TO , SEE FOR YOUR SELVES AND IF LL HAS NOT SEEN THAT YET THEN THEY ARE SLEEPING OR JUST PRETENDING THEY DONT SEE IT THERE

[Dillon Levenque]

1. As has already been mentioned, there is no need to shout.

2. People do things that aren't allowed all the time. They sell drugs on the streets of San Francisco in direct violation of city, state, and federal law. That doesn't mean it's 'allowed'.

The TPE that is (apparently) doing the Linden exchanges is doing so in violation of Second Life's terms (and, if the comment an Inworldz admin made to Treasure is accurate, also against Inworldz terms). It is very unlikely that the TPE does not realize it is breaking the rules. Is that really the kind of company you want handling your money?

 

 

spelling edit

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Please stop typing in ALL CAPITALS Violet.

Please also report any hate messages that have been sent to you; we don't need that sort of thing.  While people are saying you're wrong in here I haven't seen any hate-speech.  (But then, I'm skimming this and may have missed it.  Not my job anyway; report any that you think are actionable, the mods will sort it out).

 ETA:  I've just been in-world to have a look.  I take it you're refering to the InWorldz/InBiz ATM place?  No-one there but I sent an IM to the (offline) owner asking if they'd care to comment on this argument.  Not my job to go blabbing to LL about it of course.  LOL, if they gave us a way of talking to them I might mention it but since they don't, they can be sued for not meeting their legal anti-fraud requirements.

[Alicia Sautereau]

Nah, let her use all caps for obvious reasons

[Czari Zenovka]

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Violet Woller wrote:

GO TO SEARCH IN YOUR SL GAME SCREEN AND TYPE INWORLDZ AND THERE IT IS THE SIM TO GO TO , SEE FOR YOUR SELVES AND IF LL HAS NOT SEEN THAT YET THEN THEY ARE SLEEPING OR JUST PRETENDING THEY DONT SEE IT THERE

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I know the exact sim to which you are referring - when I joined IW in 2010 (whenever it was that many SL merchants either set up secondary locations for their businesses there or moved there entirely based on the change to the TOS that only items one created 100% could be backed up/exported) the sim, owned if I'm not mistaken by IW's founder, Elenia, had the ATM on it to convert lindens to "izzies" which were then retrieved by the ATM in IW which, at that time, was in the building where the free items for new residents were housed. 

During the short time I was at IW regularly, Elenia was already saying that the ATMs between LL and IW would be shut down and, as Treasure mentioned, have been.  I do plan to check this out again when I go in world as well as contact one of my closest friends who is a full time IW resident, having left SL pretty much in 2010 *and* I will go into IW to check it out.

 

[Madeline Blackbart]

Ermm you mean this spot on mainland with just a brick wall in front of a bench and a plywood box? When I did a search for inworldz this is what came up for Inworldz center. Not sure where the account linking/money trading is going on here? The black disk is clickable but doesn't do anything. The Brick wall, while aesthetically a nice touch, is still just a brick wall. Is there a secret dance I should do to activate this thing?

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:

Ermm you mean this spot on mainland with just a brick wall in front of a bench and a plywood box? When I did a search for inworldz this is what came up for Inworldz center. Not sure where the account linking/money trading is going on here? The black disk is clickable but doesn't do anything. The Brick wall, while aesthetically a nice touch, is still just a brick wall. Is there a secret dance I should do to activate this thing?

 

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Yep, that was what I saw when I went there in 2010, except there were a lot more items there and it actually resembled a well-thought out parcel.  Looks like it has been taken down.  Did you check the owner of the parcel by any chance?  (Just so I don't now need to truck over...lol.)  I'm wondering if Elenia still owns it or if it was abandoned

[Minetheree]

Not that I care for inwz at all but to be fair, the exhanges that are currently done are done by [removed link as it seemed to not be allowed here when I did one before...google theinbiz] and as I used to work with Anna I know her to be pretty sharp.

I would have to sift thru a lot of IMs on my computer to find where it is in SL....but I used to use it myself some time back.

Of course this could all be changed now also as I have not been in that grid since February. And of course SL has changed it's own rules for which I have no clue or interest in either.

I expect she has everything covered but of course I could be wrong [would not be the first time nor will it be the last time]-))

just fyi stuff...

[Coby Foden]

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Madeline Blackbart wrote:

When I did a search for inworldz this is what came up for Inworldz center.

 

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Erm... that's wrong place. When I searched just for Inworldz two places came up. The place you found, and also the right place. Which is here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Appletor/208/226/14

The terminal is inside the building.

 

(I didn't go to the trouble to test does it work or not.)

[Violet Woller]

[Violet Woller]

yes it does work fine, and that is in SL

 

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Violet Woller wrote:

GO TO SEARCH IN YOUR SL GAME SCREEN AND TYPE INWORLDZ AND THERE IT IS THE SIM TO GO TO , SEE FOR YOUR SELVES AND IF LL HAS NOT SEEN THAT YET THEN THEY ARE SLEEPING OR JUST PRETENDING THEY DONT SEE IT THERE

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I took your challenge and went and looked.

First off I want to answer your statement, if LL has not seen, etc.  Alamost 30,000 SIMs and how many 100,000's of users log in every day....unless someone reports it I don't expect them to see anything.  There just aren't enough of them to go around.

But moving ahead here with the topic.

 

 

What we have here is someone(s) operating a business that is not affilated with InWorldz or Second Life.

From the InBiz FAQ, bottom of the page:

"inBiz is not affiliated with Inworldz, LLC, but cooperates fully with their risk management procedures and fully endorses and subscribes to their Terms of Service."     http://shop.theinbiz.com/faq.php

Now, looking at the Official InWorldz TOS:

"InWorldz, LLC further establishes that any service designed to transfer I'z into or out of it's service may result in account termination. This includes, but not limited to: ATM machines designed to transfer I'z out of InWorldz into other currency, people or accounts created to transfer I'z out of InWorldz into other currency, or any other system deemed by InWorldz staff to be accommodating such transfers."     http://inworldz.com/tos.php

I'm pretty sure I know how this person or persons is operating.  Ideally, if my guess is right, and it is only a guess, what they are doing is not transferring money in the strict definition of terms.

You give them Linden Dollars in SL.  They give you Inworldz Dollars in Inworld.  Or visa versa.  They are more than likely charging a fee to do this, probably worked in to their exchange rate.

Whether or not this would be considered an "exchange" in violation of either SL's or InWorldz ToS, I don't know.  He is not actually taking money out of either World.  At best he is skirting around both ToS's. 

We don't know if either LL or IW has looked at his operation and what their decision was.

My best understanding says it is not allowed by either.  But that is not my decision to make.

 

 

[Violet Woller]

Well Anna just sent me an ATM for my Sim at IW so i guess there is no problem at all

[Minetheree]

ok-))

[Minetheree]

just a quick clarification...inwz used to allow transfers both ways but stopped iz going back to sl a couple or so years ago. They said due to fraud issues but I always personally thought they just did not wish to lose the izzies. Not that it matters.

 

But, it is just L to iz...[just in case you do not wish it to get stuck there]

[Zia Larnia]

I would like to comment to this Perrie .  SL knows .  In the beginning of the discussions about Open Sims many people in SL went to go and set up other grids.  The discussion with Linden was the plan originally was that Open Sims would eventually open up and allow tp and other avenues to the open grids from Second Life.  Those connections didn't happen.  There are many Open Sims now that have similar platforms to the Second Life grid.  LL was involved in the beginning and accepting of the open sim direction.  There were signs all over Second Life advertising the Open Sim meetings and forums.  Linda Kellie was one of the founders of that movement.  Unworldly is one of the open sim grids that has established a link between the two.

The connection center does NOT take a fee, nor is there one that is taken out at the terminals.  There is no exchange of money.  Your avatars in the two worlds are linked.  What is happening is you are paying your own avatar or alt avatar.  The terminal is only a transition link between the two.  InBiz is the market for IW and is not able to be bought from on SL..Just as IW residence are not able to by from the Marketplace.  The fund transfers are like taking Linden and paying your alt.  It is a straight across exchange.  None of these business's providing a service to those of us that go between both grids are making a profit from these exchanges.   LL does know of the two business's and the two gridz founders do have communications.

This grid actually Benefits Secondlife.  Many of us that are builder's, creators, and the like that have traversed the two worlds spend much of out time creating in IW.  When making an item that you have to pay for uploads it can be quite expensive to pay 10L an upload everytime you need to make a tweak.  We that go between grids work mostly in IW and work to help make that grid viable.  In the mean time when we are completed with a project we then PAY LINDEN to upload our finished product.

Fyi - there is a new terms of use for  Secondlife and many creators are pulling out because of it.  That is around item 4 in the list of agreements to play the game.  It states that anything brought into SL is SL property.  So we are creating, paying them to upload out art into Secondlife, and they can take our creations and do what they will even if it is copywrited.  The reason it over rides copyrights and TOS in SL?  Is because we have to click agree to the terms of play in order to be let into the game.  Therefore, if we click that agreement button we just over road our own copyrights.

SL may fix this soon and there are plenty of rl people who are watching the direction it goes.  In the mean time no new art is being uploaded into the game.  We are using what we already have in there to make new things or rework the old.  The communications between the two worlds was working pretty well for all of us that go between grids.  We love both sides and wish to continue playing.  In the end, Like WOW, League of Legends, and all the other interactive computer games.  They are games and are meant to be enjoyed.  It allows for socialization with other people around the world we don't get in our rl.  

The Centers in both worlds are a connection point between SL and an Open Sim.  It was created by some very talented people on their own dime and many hours of hard work.  No one makes a profit off this anymore then LL makes a profit off you when you pay one of your alts or a store for a virtual item.  It would not have been allowed if it had.  I started many years ago in SL and have never had a premium account.  I have worked here, owned sims here, paid tier costs, and owned business's.  My account is just as valid as the others since my income I either pay outside to bring in when the l is low or I make it in world.

Enjoy the games and the people

[Czari Zenovka]

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Violet Woller wrote:

Well Anna just sent me an ATM for my Sim at IW so i guess there is no problem at all

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I'm assuming Anna goes by the name of Elenia in IW?  Meaning your referring to her by her RL name.  Just making sure we're talking about the same person.

[Czari Zenovka]

Thank you for the (non-shouting) explanation, Zia.   I have a good friend who keeps a small parcel (last I heard) in SL but prefers building in IW probably for much the same reasons as you mentioned.  I was going to ask her about this topic but your answer covered the issue very well.

[Treasure Ballinger]

I wonder then why the admin told me that it was against TOS, when I asked there on the IW forum

 

 

ETA: Ok, I read it again.  He said that changing Izzies to Lindens is against TOS.  And that if Lindens are being changed to Izzies, that IW isn't involved, it would have to be a 3rd party.  And that there are no IW sponsored ATMs or transaction mechanisms.  Wording is pretty subtle but now I can see more clearly what Zia is saying.

[Madeline Blackbart]

lolz voilet CAPS LOCK YELLED AT ME IN SECOND LIFE! COOL! Geuss I got the wrong place. Geuss it's not so easy to find then? lolz Still no one else would tried to find it if I hadn't posted I tried I think. That said I don't trust it at all. Not only is it not official but you can't even read the TOS on there site without signing up first WTF? Yes i did try to read them as well. You also can't read there TOS at the place either? Or in notices.

 

Now I'm not gonna claim to be a saint who always reads TOS but to me I find it suspect if I don't have the option to at least.

[Treasure Ballinger]

You can read the Inworldz TOS on their website, without signing up.  I just tried it, without logging in.  It's right there.  Not sure where you were trying to read it from?