What would you do to make SL more inviting and interesting?

[KarenMichelle Lane]

for all the current population....

and for those yet to visit our world...

[madman626 Fall]

unban gambling for start .

[valerie Inshan]

Hi Karen, I believe Jo Yardley's answer(s) in the other thread is quite an excellent "résumé" of how our second lives (for both newcomers and older residents) could be improved. She speaks of wisdom and sensibility and I can only refer to her post as she does take the words out of my mouth. I am in complete agreement with her. :smileyhappy:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/What-can-we-do-to-make-SL-better/td-p/1598741

[Ceka Cianci]

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valerie Inshan wrote:

Hi Karen, I believe Jo Yardley's answer(s) in the other thread is quite an excellent "résumé" of how our second lives (for both newcomers and older residents) could be improved. She speaks of wisdom and sensibility and I can only refer to her post as she does take the words out of my mouth. I am in complete agreement with her. :smileyhappy:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/What-can-we-do-to-make-SL-better/td-p/1598741

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i agree as well..Jo is well grounded on things..Rodvik gets a lot of blame for M's doings..which he seems to be trying to work on..

people saying he isn't doing anything because he all of a sudden went quiet..when really now if we hear from him there is a good chance he is holding something in his hand for us..

also he keeps catching a hell storm for posting over at SLU..which really is a smart move on his part..a lot of the older users are over at SLU that left these forums because of different reasons..the ones that were a major loss to these forums..

it's a huge part of the community as well..i think he is pretty smart for recognizing SLU really..it's been around longer than most of us..and is filled with a wealth of knowledgeable long time contributing users..

when we feel a major loss to the community here when that certain member leaves..it's usually SLU's gain of a new member..

i like Rodvik..and i think he is gonna be good for SL...all though i don't think we will see the heydays we once had..i think we'll see some pretty cool stuff in the near future..because he pays attention to the users..even though some may think he doesn't..

i think Jo see's through the hype and drama and grabs the good stuff that gets buried in it all..that's what i like about her posts..they are well grounded..

[Boudicca Littlebird]

Be less intense about it, I mean to some who have been here a long time it is a huge deal, might that not scare of those just looking for a bit of fun, don't know.

[Penny Patton]

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

Re: What would you do to make SL more inviting and interesting?

for all the current population....

and for those yet to visit our world...

---

A lot of my ideas would probably be beyond what LL is capable of without starting over and releasing SL2, I'll try and keep this to what I'd do with the existing platform. Let's start in the order an imaginary new user would notice these differences.

 

• I'd invest in marketing SL better. Marketing imagery would show SL at its best. Great looking avatars, great looking sims shown at high graphics settings. I'd show off the kinds of things you can do in SL like build vehicles, create and play games, meeting people, etcetera.
• I'd make the confusing name system a bit more clear to new users. I'd clearly state your username is your login and there would be a field for new users to select their first display name, which would be described as their avatar name. This way, new users would not feel constricted with the usernames, and we'd see less BigJohn1969 and sugarbaby231705.
• Usernames would not be in the nametags by default, just display names. Two names in the name tags is just confusing and makes no sense. (Before anyone starts screaming about identity concerns, usernames are currently displayed in every message and transaction window to prevent identity issues. I'd keep that the way it is, and would also leave the option to show usernames in the preferences.)
• Better starter avatars. LL's robots and vehicle avatars are great, the rest not so much. I'd concentrate on a handfull of really solid, well made human starter avatars. These would be top notch. I wouldn't hold back and make them intentionally look bad. The desire to be unique will drive new residents to user created content.
• A more intuitive and user friendly appearance editor. When creating a shape from scratch a user would first be prompted to choose from a group fo base body archtypes, such as fat, thin, muscular, atheltic, heroic, dwarven, etcetera. Current issues with the body part sliders would be corrected and the height displayed in the appearance editor would be, unlike the current official viewer, correct.
• Good looking system skins. Again, the desire for unique appearances will drive people to the user created skin market. But to drive up new user retention one of the changes would be to replace LL's programmer art system skin assets with professional quality art assets, allowing for top quality looking system skins that are every bit as customizable as the current system skins. Just imagine having all those customization options, but with top quality results.
• Completely redone orientation and tutorials. New users would first experience a very brief tutorial on movement and basic functions, like sitting and chatting. Further tutorials would be available to new users to explore at their leisure. They'd be able to start, stop, restart where they left off, or explore other tutorials whenever they liked.
• Starting environments, welcome areas and infohubs would all be redone with professional quality builds. Such Linden maintained environments should be used to showcase how good SL can look and the interesting things that can be done here.
• Sandbox building tutorials. Every Linden sandbox would have multiple building tutorials to teach new users how to create content with the in-world tools. Tutorials would start simple (a hammer, maybe, or a hat) and grow gradually more complex ( a chair, a go-kart, a house) and explain good building habits as well as the tools.
• Expanded profiles for avatars, land and groups. Profiles would be designed to draw people in more easily to communities and content that might interest them. Residents would have access to a personal calendar where they could see upcoming events for groups they're in, events posted by friends, etcetera. A limited humber of interest tags could be applied to marketplace listings, events, land and classifies to add such content to the "Recommendations" tab.
• Modernized tools for managing your contact list. I'd bring SL up to date with every instant messaging service on the planet with tools to manage your contacts, more easily set who sees what, log on invisible, etcetera.

 

And much, much more. For instance, I can think of a dozen ways the content creation tools could be improved which would double framerates and cut lag in half.

 

Mind you, this isn't the order I'd implement these changes in. For instance, if LL invested a tonne of money in marketing SL before making actual improvements it would backfire horribly, just as it did when LL rode the hype bubble in 2007 until it burst, leaving the public with a very bad impression of SL. SL lost a lot of users during that time. Users who will never return and who will be saying terrible things about their SL experience for years to come.

As such, I'd do my best to improve the SL experience and only then begin to market it heavily.

[Deirdre Criss]

Uhh, replace the current viewer with one that isn't such a nightmare to use?  Or, maybe stop telling paid account residents to file a support ticket and wait 3 days for a response when they have a problem?

[Orca Flotta]

# I know it's old now but what LL should really do is lowering land prices. Make owning land more accesible for everyone. Conventional wisdom says that ownership makes more loyal clients. When I'm a homeless drifter on  a basic account I'll leave SL in a heartbeat; once I own a nice parcel I'll think twice about leaving.

# Invest in more and better hardware.

# Set new residents not jus somewhere in the world, into an infohub where they immediately encounter some of the worst characters of SL. But rez them at an orientation place, where they have to do some basic stuff (walking, running, flying, touching stuff, editing, camming etc.) before they gain access to the world.

# LL should stop trying to provide entertainment!!!! One of the simple facts of SL, and one every new resident needs to grasp (or gtfo), is that SL is not a ready-made entertainment area. You must be able to entertain yourself in order to really enjoy it. Remember Your World - Your Imagination!

 

 

 

 

[Seven Overdrive]

Honestly, there really isn't anything that could make SL more inviting that hasn't already been tried or is being done currently.  I believe that only a small segment of the population gets virtual worlds or are even interested by them.  It may not be OK for the company running the virtual world, but it is OK for me.   I think many people log in and find SL to be either, not what they were expecting, or just not their cup of tea.  

SL often reminds me of the expression "A Jack of all trades, master of none." .  It can be a game, but not a great game when compared to what is available out there.  Or a collaborative tool, but not an efficient tool compared to products designed only for that.  So it isn't hard for me to assume that is a big reason why people do not stick around for long.  

I think it also true that many find out rather quickly that SL really isn't free.  Especially when they find themselves standing next to that avatar wearing $30 dollars worth of stuff.  Sure you can hunt for quality freebies to put together a decent avatar, but not many new people are going to know this or have the patience to do so.  

As for improving things for the current population... lowering sim prices to make "Your World, Your Imagination" more accessible to more people would be the biggest thing I think.

[Penny Patton]

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Seven Overdrive wrote:

Honestly, there really isn't anything that could make SL more inviting that hasn't already been tried or is being done currently.  

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 That is entirely false. There's a LOT many of us have been practically begging LL to do that they have not.

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I believe that only a small segment of the population gets virtual worlds or are even interested by them.  It may not be OK for the company running the virtual world, but it is OK for me.   I think many people log in and find SL to be either, not what they were expecting, or just not their cup of tea.  

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 And I believe the biggest obstacle to people getting into SL tends to be the poorly implemented tools, the unintuitive UI, the almost complete lack of social tools the rest of the internet has enjoyed since at least 1995, the abysmal presentation and the lack of meaningful tutorials.

 People come to SL in droves, but they leave confused and disappointed. It has nothing to do with what SL is and everything to do with some critical failures on the part of LL. They seem to be trying to fix a lot of those mistakes under Rodvik, but it appears to be slow going, at least in part due to the existing culture at LL which is determined to approach every problem from a programmer's perspective, even those problems that have nothing to do with code.

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SL often reminds me of the expression "A Jack of all trades, master of none." .  It can be a game, but not a great game when compared to what is available out there.  Or a collaborative tool, but not an efficient tool compared to products designed only for that.  So it isn't hard for me to assume that is a big reason why people do not stick around for long.  

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This I agree on, but I'd be quick to point out that the extent to which this is true has nothing to do with what SL is but entirely rests on a lack of development in critical areas. When even the appearance editor is confusing and broken you've got problems. SL's biggest strengths is that it has an appearance editor at all, the lack of that ability to customize and socialize which plagues other virtual world start-ups is what has kept SL on top of that small pack.

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I think it also true that many find out rather quickly that SL really isn't free.  Especially when they find themselves standing next to that avatar wearing $30 dollars worth of stuff.  Sure you can hunt for quality freebies to put together a decent avatar, but not many new people are going to know this or have the patience to do so.  

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I don't think this is that big of an issue. Microtransactions have proven to be big business, and most people are willing to pay for something that entertains them.

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As for improving things for the current population... lowering sim prices to make "Your World, Your Imagination" more accessible to more people would be the biggest thing I think.

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Food for thought, but did you know that right now, if you own land, chances are you're paying for four times as much land as you're using?

 Most content in SL is designed around 9' tall avatars (the maximum size an avatar can be without tricks) and SL's really poor default camera placment. This combination results in most content being about twice the size it should be, especially when it comes to things like houses and other environments.

 Large scale items like that tend to cost more in Land Impact (either because they require more prims to be built at that size*, or if they use mesh then because mesh's LI cost increases with scale).

 In other words, if LL gave people more sensible camera placement and shrunk avatars down to human sizes, people would be able to fit four times as much content into their land. From the perspective of avatars taking advantage of that, it would effectively be the same as reducing the price of land down to 1/4th what it is.

 There are some sims which demonstrate this to great effect, like Doomed Ship or 1920's Berlin.

 

[Seven Overdrive]

Good counterarguments, except for the last part about sim prices.  My point had little to do with how much or little you get for the cost of the sim and more to do with the cost of being able to build your imagination without the pollution of others.  Like the person that moves in next door that is fixated with giant rotating purple phalli.  Or the person next to them that encloses their land in a big ugly box in an attempt to remove other builds from their view.  

For me, the only product SL offers that truly allows you the freedom to build what their slogan says, is a private island.  If I could buy a homestead directly from them without having to give free money to a middleman just for the privilege, I could easily live within the prim limits of those as well.  That was what I meant.

[Penny Patton]

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Seven Overdrive wrote:

Good counterarguments, except for the last part about sim prices.  My point had little to do with how much or little you get for the cost of the sim and more to do with the cost of being able to build your imagination without the pollution of others.  Like the person that moves in next door that is fixated with giant rotating purple phalli.  Or the person next to them that encloses their land in a big ugly box in an attempt to remove other builds from their view.  

For me, the only product SL offers that truly allows you the freedom to build what their slogan says, is a private island.  If I could buy a homestead directly from them without having to give free money to a middleman just for the privilege, I could easily live within the prim limits of those as well.  That was what I meant.

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Ah! So it wasn't necessarily "cheaper sims" you wanted, it was personal private spaces. Yeah, that would be fantastic.  If they could make sims cheap enough to make that possible I'm sure there'd be a huge in-flux of sim owners making up that price cut  and then some, very quickly.

[MoiselleErin Teardrop]

Someone said one must learn to entertain themselves in SL (Your world your imagination). Well, this then requires the user to HAVE an imagination. Maybe they could create a social life they cannot enjoy in RL, maybe a ranch with horses, maybe a mansion by the beach, maybe learn to build and one could build their dream home (of any caliber)... If SL could be called a game, then it is a strategy game. It is not something simple. You have to either have book smarts, be a big dreamer, or both.

In other words -

SL is not for dumb-asses. Let's face it, the world has an overabundance of them.

The mistake that us serious residents of SL often make is - we tend to forget that the average person in RL just wants entertainment spoon-fed to them. They don't want to have to think, they don't want to have to learn anything. That is why Television is probably STILL more popular than the Internet. You sit back and drool while the TV is your eyes and ears.

 

In the SL grid, it just isn't really possible for someone to enjoy it if they want to sit there and have everything done FOR them. Sure members share ideas about things but that is what learning is ABOUT.

 

What LL could do for the mindless drones who know cannot be entertained by using their noggin, they COULD create like a different grid where you choose the land to go to and everything is set up but in a different way -

It would be more like a standard video game that would require little or no editing of things, Just like say a racing arena where you picked a car and just drove. Or maybe for the FB zombies - a world where you see falling prims and you have to click on as many as you can to "like" them.

In other words, a second version of SL that is really watered down from what we know.

I will say it again - the general population is too lazy to use their brain for anything except watching garbage on TV or playing ultra-simple games that are no harder than pac-man.

An idiot is going to enjoy himself in SL about as much as Ellen Degeneres would enjoy herself at a Chippendale show.

 

EDIT - recently I was telling a friend about SL. He is hooked on that stupid-assed FB and I keep telling him, "...SL..." but his first concern was - I just want a game I can sit down and play outright, I don't want anything complicated". I looked on the computer and he was playing some racing game less complex looking than the 1981 version of Pole Position, and my only thought was, "God help him".

[SinfulPrince]

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MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote:

Someone said one must learn to entertain themselves in SL (Your world your imagination). Well, this then requires the user to HAVE an imagination. Maybe they could create a social life they cannot enjoy in RL, maybe a ranch with horses, maybe a mansion by the beach, maybe learn to build and one could build their dream home (of any caliber)... If SL could be called a game, then it is a strategy game. It is not something simple. You have to either have book smarts, be a big dreamer, or both.

In other words -

SL is not for dumb-asses. Let's face it, the world has an overabundance of them.

The mistake that us serious residents of SL often make is - we tend to forget that the average person in RL just wants entertainment spoon-fed to them. They don't want to have to think, they don't want to have to learn anything. That is why Television is probably STILL more popular than the Internet. You sit back and drool while the TV is your eyes and ears.

 

In the SL grid, it just isn't really possible for someone to enjoy it if they want to sit there and have everything done FOR them. Sure members share ideas about things but that is what learning is ABOUT.

 

What LL could do for the mindless drones who know cannot be entertained by using their noggin, they COULD create like a different grid where you choose the land to go to and everything is set up but in a different way -

It would be more like a standard video game that would require little or no editing of things, Just like say a racing arena where you picked a car and just drove. Or maybe for the FB zombies - a world where you see falling prims and you have to click on as many as you can to "like" them.

In other words, a second version of SL that is really watered down from what we know.

I will say it again - the general population is too lazy to use their brain for anything except watching garbage on TV or playing ultra-simple games that are no harder than pac-man.

An idiot is going to enjoy himself in SL about as much as Ellen Degeneres would enjoy herself at a Chippendale show.

 

EDIT - recently I was telling a friend about SL. He is hooked on that stupid-assed FB and I keep telling him, "...SL..." but his first concern was - I just want a game I can sit down and play outright, I don't want anything complicated". I looked on the computer and he was playing some racing game less complex looking than the 1981 version of Pole Position, and my only thought was, "God help him".

---

 

I'm not even mad, and to an extent I have to sort of go along with some of what she said because it applies to me lol .

While I love being "able" to build (and I do ) in a lot of ways its a "drag" for me to need to employ 9999 huds just to accomplish any animation beyond walk, run, jump and fly.

I know that it lops over into parents wanting to be able to feel that little jr does not have certain animations at his/her disposal, but for me as an adult it is unreasonable to need to "shop around" to be able to execute a hug, or engage the other person while throwing a punch,  or anything else that engages more than one avatar.

Where is the ability to "socialize" in that?

 Its why SL (in my opinion) disolves into nothing more than conversation while standing still  in your avatar. They can't really "do " much else. And thats boring as h*** And if you would like to attempt to make it UNboring and bring interactive behaviors between yourself and any others in , AFTER it is very stiff and awkward (with the whole jumping on poseball detour....) it also becomes expensive. Why? Because you have to look for "the good" hug, or the fight sequece that does not make you look like a buttwipe, as opposed to having set, game driven , interactions that are across the board and for everybody. Guy 1 doesn't have his avatar doin animations that are any better than anyone else. And you don't have 9 "reject" huds to lament the purchase of that you paid for with real money. Cuz the fact is EVERYTHING In sl costs real money.

You are never 'done" paying. 

Because each scratch of the eyebrow, each shrug of the shoulder, or squat on the toilet is a bought thing with user scripting and NOTHING is LL issue, you are NEVER done paying. Every day, every hour of use , is another opportunity to  either  buy something or not be able to accomplish much of anything. 

 If someone who had never logged on sl asked me what it was like , that would be my blanket response, "You can't actually "do" anything in sl. You can just buy a lot of things that can."

If your fun time is sitting around and making those things then I guess that works for you. Mine is not.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Good point, and I mostly agree with mini Erin, too.

[Dilbert Dilweg]

I posted in another thread about this, but could also respond to this one and some of the posts I have read. Some posts have some good points and Sinful had good points as well. I think It should be about helping new residents find their niche I guess. Turn them on to communities of their intrest. If mentors are still not an option these days. Then why not create a starter Guide, custom taylored to their personal intrests. After they go thru the basics of movement and how to operate the controlls and are ready to head out to the world. Have a Popup That asks them some basic questions. Such as " In one word, what type of music do you like?, In one or two words, If you were to roll play. What type would intrest you?, In one word. Desacrbe your favorite Hobby." After the basic questions, they hit enter. And the system provides them with a guide of all the places of their intrest that are in the destination guide. But make sure the places are busy mananged places so the resident has somone to connect with right away that have the same intrests. Show them how to become part of or build a community. But show them where it is At as well. Having a lot of people to talk to and connect to helps the new resident find their way .

 

Learning SL can be a pain in the arse. Having a lot of people around that can answer questions and help quickly, tends to keep the resident from becoming discouraged so quickly. It is not fun if you have to sit and read manuals all the time and sift thru the knowledge base for answers. Wasting valuable play time...

 

EDIT: But most of all. Make sure the product works. Dicouragment can come from poor viewer performance and server performance as well.

[jwenting]

for starters, stop whining, complaining, and bugging people here about how bad things are. Prospective users read that and go elsewhere.

And it's largely baseless, unfounded, whining. Things aren't bad. They might not be perfect, but overall it's pretty good. When it's not, the world is run by YOU, all of YOU (and that includes me) together, let's do what we can to make/keep it fun and fulfilling for all of us.

So instead of writing about how bad LL are, how boring SL is become, write about what you've done or are planning to do to make it great.

[Dilbert Dilweg]

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jwenting wrote:

for starters, stop whining, complaining, and bugging people here about how bad things are. Prospective users read that and go elsewhere.

And it's largely baseless, unfounded, whining. Things aren't bad. They might not be perfect, but overall it's pretty good. When it's not, the world is run by YOU, all of YOU (and that includes me) together, let's do what we can to make/keep it fun and fulfilling for all of us.

So instead of writing about how bad LL are, how boring SL is become, write about what you've done or are planning to do to make it great.

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High Five with fist bump on that one for sure

[MoiselleErin Teardrop]

A lot of things in SL do cost money but SL is not really expensive. $40 a month is more than plenty to be able to buy things you don't want to make or find in freebie lands.

If $40 a month sounds expensive, well what about when people pay $100 a month to cable and end up watchin the SAME crap all the time, shows about pawn shops, politics, celebrities who say they saw a ghost, or morbidly obese lard people trying to lose weight?Certain worth plunking down a Benjamin now isn't it?

SL gets on my nerves at times, sure. That is when I take time off of it.

 

With the "imagination" part of it, sure we all realize it is not real life but if you can let yourself escape into the fantasy it offers a small percentage of the satisfaction of doing something but with none of the risks (usually)

 

During school in the early 80's when I went to elementary. imagination was encouraged. I think these days they just want to tell kids they are "autistic" if they don't follow the norm or are dreamers. God forbid anyone allow themselves to escape the real world sometimes and try to enjoy a fantasy.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

Make something like the SL9B build that happened this year permanent, and the starting spot.

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/sl9b-something-permanent-like-this-please-to-help-retention/

A smallver version - condensed to one sim.

A sim with scripts off.

Solid rule of no commercial builds, no builds from stores at all. Communities and social venues / games only. Quarter or half the size of the builds that were at SL9B.

- It was much better than the destination guide has ever been.

Use some kind of resident voting system to pick builds there. Perhaps every build expires in 30 days, unless voted on -more- than builds on a waiting list (This is the kind of thing that should be popularity driven). But not for all the builds. Maybe 1/2 to 3/4ths of them this way. Another 4th chosen by some resident committee based on how interesting the application is - a little like LEA, but resident managed.

Ie: It should be mostly what is a thriving community, but with a bit of 'what is very interesting and undernoticed.

 

- The big problem with SL for BOTH new folks and olbies is finding communities. Newbies have no idea. And most oldbies quit SL after about a year to a year and a half because their first community no longer is what they want out of SL, but they don't manage to find a replacement before they get bored.

[Penny Patton]

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jwenting wrote:

for starters, stop whining, complaining, and bugging people here about how bad things are. Prospective users read that and go elsewhere.

And it's largely baseless, unfounded, whining. Things aren't bad. They might not be perfect, but overall it's pretty good. When it's not, the world is run by YOU, all of YOU (and that includes me) together, let's do what we can to make/keep it fun and fulfilling for all of us.

So instead of writing about how bad LL are, how boring SL is become, write about what you've done or are planning to do to make it great.

---

 

People complain because there are problems. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all that.

I would say that most people don't understand the problems, they just know their experience is less than ideal.

 A lot of the people complaining about specific problems, where they do know exactly what's causing the problems, like issues with the content creation tools which create lag and prevent people from getting higher framerates, are also the people building the best and most interesting content in SL. They're complaining from firsthand knowledge gleaned while making SL better.

 

 In short, complaining without offering insight in how things could be improved isn't very helpful.

Telling people just not to complain no matter what is even less helpful.

[Petronilla Whitfield]

After reading a couple of these threads, it seems to me that it might be possible to consider new users are belonging to one of two groups--those who really want to learn from other people and who need a social connection to a group, and those (like me) who prefer to learn alone--who would log off and never return if forced to have a buddy or mentor or go to a populated region to learn the ropes.

Perhaps new users could be allowed to choose their portal to enter SL.  They could select either (1) go to a hang-out with folks who can help you learn your way around, or (2) go to a private location to learn from tutorials at your own pace.

For this to work, LL would have to do the hard part, namely, having an up-to-date, vetted, and monitered list of places that have mentors who are reliable, friendly, and available, as well as a place with video tutorials.  I like Jo's idea of having that second system in an off-site web page.

It would cost money to set up and maintain these portals.  But as others have said, SL has a considerable learning curve.  If retention of new users is important to LL, then they should probably be prepared to invest in it.