Jump to content

Devastating internet censorship plan (new SOPA) to be put in practice starting July!


You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 3148 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

"

some one should make a law about that. oh! wait. we dont want no laws govern the interwebz. is evol that. is way better if the market rules

to bad for them in the countryside where is only one ISP. nevermind. they can move to the city where they can get another ISP on the market there"

--------------------------------------------------------

16, I'm pretty sure I remember you mentioning in the past that you are not an American so I can forgive you a little on this.  But before you say something like:

"we dont want no laws govern the interwebz. "

You really should, at least, read our Constitution.  The United States government is meant to be a minimal government.  One that allows individuals to self govern as much as possible..........not governed by a central government that tells us what we can or can not do with our lives.  A government that stays out of the way as much a possible.......not interjecting itself into everyone's life.  Totalatarian goverments and dictatorships do that injecting, not a free society with limited goverment.  That's the problem with the US today..........no one has read the Constitution (or if they have, they simply can't conprehend what it says).  "Make a law" is the cry from the masses over the last couple decades (excellerated over the last 2 or 3 years).  And then they wonder why an ISP can cut off their access to the Internet  on the say so from some special interest (such as the RIAA).......and no recourse (you are guilty without any evidence). 

Sound like Cuba or China?  More than just a little bit.



 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 117
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic


Mircea Lobo wrote:

Phil: How can you not see anything wrong with it? And how can anyone be so naive to imagine it will only be used for copyright purposes?

If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I said,"If that's all that it's about". And I'll say it again. If that's all that it's about, I see nothing wrong with it.

 


This will allow your ISP to spy on everything you do. If they spy your data they will be able to read your emails, IM's, how many times you called your boss a moron, how many times you sex RP'd online... everything. Theoretically, they can even spy on what you discuss with your co-workers, and secretly share private information with the competitor of the company you work for. Or if you access a porn website, they could tell everyone about it and the things you look at (even your parents or husband / wife). Next, if you access a website about something your admin dislikes, they can easily invent false claims against you to bully you. Imagine being cut off the internet because you are gay or accessed 4chan. Or going to school one day to find out the head teacher mysteriously knows you're gay or something you only said privately, then everyone finds out and you get bullied. Also, what do you think will happen to people who post bad things about America's leadership, the US army, uncover war crimes or government abuses, and that sort of thing... especially with the NDAA being around?

All ISPs can already do all of that. You're forgetting that all the traffic between you and the internet goes via your ISP's equpiment, and, if your ISP wants to, for whatever reason, they can see everything you do on the web. So that's nothing new. They aren't getting any extra powers.

 


If anyone thinks this won't happen because "they will be nice people and will only use this to catch thieves", you are more than naive. No, it WILL be used for this and much worse if it happens. I don't even need to point out what power hungry and control hungry characters are behind this.

Then I'm happy being naive. Given the fact that they can already do all the things you imagine, but don't do it, it's more a case of you seeing 'reds under the beds' than me being over-naive. If you don't like an ISP's ability to snoop on your internet acivities, don't use an ISP; i.e. get off the internet or become your own ISP - it's not difficult but it does cost.

 


But even if (just for the sake of pretending) this will only be used against pirates. Those pirates might have an online job, not to mention friends they talk with and other activities (unrelated to piracy).
Cutting anyone off the internet at this day could cost many their jobs, and some even their lives. And then... being humiliated in spite by being sent to classes about copyright and scolded like a 2 year old by some internet provider?

I would have no sympathy at all with pirates who suffer because of it. If anyone doesn't want to suffer from it, don't be a pirate. Simples.

Who cares if a pirate loses his job because he's a pirate and his job is internet-based. Who's fault would it be, eh? I'd applaud it.




Alongside the practical consequences, this is also an insult to all internet users. We are being qualified as thieves automatically, and investigated prematurely to make sure we aren't stealing.

Yes and the police force is there to assume we are all thieves too. Police forces shouldn't be on the look-out for crime or we are all being "qualified as thieves". Yeah right.

 

I haven't read the rest of your lengthy post - it's just too lengthy. But I do get the impression that you protest too much. Perhaps you enjoy downloading movies for free and you wouldn't like to lose that facility? I can't imagine anyone else being concerned about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

GothGirl Demonia wrote:

As I have said Copyright infringement in Games like Second Life I find to be very bad and actually harm people. Sadly the past week I have seen a lot of it and it just absolutely makes me sick, however what people are talking about is Copyright infringement to the big industries like RIAA, SONY, and all these other game companies that are way bigger and make more bucks than any creator in SL at least to my knowledge. 

Are you suggesting that, because companies like Sony make a lot of money, it's ok for their stuff to be pirated? And that, because SL business owners make very little money by comparison, it's not ok for their stuff to be pirated? I hope you're not meaning that, because, if you are, you are dead wrong.

 


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

If you watch this YouTube then you will understand likely where I am comnig from, ACTA, SOPA, and PIPA must be stopped as a LAW, because it is plain out just stupid if I share that recipie with my family tell my young teenager how to bake a cake I would be thrown in jail for it. If I bought a music CD at store but made a copy of it, not to sell it make profit or give it away but for my family member I would be breaking the Law. If I used a license across two computers for any program that I only had rights on one of my computers let my family in the same house watch netflix on an account or anything  like the such I would be breaking the LAW, and therefore could get years in prision for nothing. 

I don't know about the recipe bit but your CD example is correctly illegal, and shouldn't be done. You can't go around making copies of CDs and giving them away. It's piracy and is rightly illegal. It's not clear what you mean in your computer example but, if you mean that you have a license for one computer only and you use the programme on two computers, then you are breaking the law. If you want a license for two computers, buy it. Who uses the programme (watches a movie) on any computer you have a license to run it on doesn't matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

you missed the post i made after that one in response to Qwalyphi..where he kind of cleared things up..

also if they did decide to do it.. i would just not have the internet..i would be done with it..

i'm getting worn out on all the security risk involved with it..

as i said before ..i hired them..i can fire them just as easy as i hired them..

i would just ride my horses more and spend more time at the ranch during the day is all..

 


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed that this was soley a corporate action, not a government action. 

No government intrusion here.  This is corporations acting together to protect corporate interests. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it's not givernments this time... at least not officially. Those ISP's aren't doing it for nothing however, so they receive money from somehwere. That's either the governments (making them INDIRECTLY involved) or most likely Hollywood and low-life media corporations.

Also, as I pointed out, the government might be indirectly involved (pressuring or bribing) as part of a scheme to pass SOPA more easily were it to be revived, or another law like it. The idea could be that if this ISP initiative is applied, people will get used to censorship, so SOPA can be voted on again next year and people would care less. So they might be working together behind the curtain.

Link to post
Share on other sites


VRprofessor wrote:

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed that this was soley a corporate action, not a government action. 

No government intrusion here.  This is corporations acting together to protect corporate interests. 

you weren't..i've been saying it in every post..

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the part that gets under my skin the most. I don't understand why groups of corporations get to make up their own 'laws'. This agreement actually reads pretty good, as Phil pointed out. But it's shocking to me that corporations can collectively wield so much power.

What if all the car manufacturers got together and came up with an anti speeding agreement? If their gps data shows you speeding your car stops working or you're stuck driving at 20mph. We would be screaming bloody murder, mostly about how car manufacturers have Way too much power. Why should ISP/RIAA be aloud to do something similar?

 

If all the ISPs got together on pricing they would all have their day in court, why is this any different? Where do consumer rights come in?

 

Questions! I haz them!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites


Alisha Matova wrote:

That's the part that gets under my skin the most. I don't understand why groups of corporations get to make up their own 'laws'. This agreement actually reads pretty good, as Phil pointed out. But it's shocking to me that corporations can collectively wield so much power.

What if all the car manufacturers got together and came up with an anti speeding agreement? If their gps data shows you speeding your car stops working or you're stuck driving at 20mph. We would be screaming bloody murder, mostly about how car manufacturers have Way too much power. Why should ISP/RIAA be aloud to do something similar?

 

If all the ISPs got together on pricing they would all have their day in court, why is this any different? Where do consumer rights come in?

 

Questions! I haz them!


this is what i have been kind of hitting on..consumer rights come in with the plug in the socket..

in other words..if you agree with them to use their product..you pretty much agree to let them do to you what you agreed they could..

just like we do with second life..

only these guys don't send you the agree notices..they send you the ..don't respond to this notice if you agree..which is still good enough..

our option is to quit them..and thats exactly what i plan to do if they end up going too far..

the only thing a corp feels is a bad quarter..so a lot of people would have to do the same for it to really even matter in a big way..which they won't ..they will just keep using it and conform..even if it is a big risk..because the net has become a thing they feel they need..

after my first post in here..i had already went off and started to cancel and delete all kinds of accounts  on the net i had..i was just getting all ready for when i decided to unplug..

i'm about one more net security risk away from just saying screw the net lol

it's starting to feel like the matrix and choosing which pill to take..

mine will be the wake up pill..because i'm just about done with it...half the crap i have now like my cell and  tv and ipads and ipods ..i barely use them..

it's getting to where it's just not worth the headaches anymore is all..so these guys doing this piracy crap the way i thought it was gonna be at first..that was the straw that would have broke the camels back..

just hope there are a lot of other people about as fed up as well..cause it would be nice if these corps finally felt a pinch or two in something they did wrong..rather than turning it into some sort ofscammy profit like usual..

 

Link to post
Share on other sites


Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


VRprofessor wrote:

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed that this was soley a corporate action, not a government action. 

No government intrusion here.  This is corporations acting together to protect corporate interests. 

you weren't..i've been saying it in every post..

I know - and yet some people failed to notice and went on and on about the government.

Then again - why wouldn't I expect that?

ya..i just used that NSA video to show that we have already been under the same thing that the one person was talking about in their country that was imposed on them..

under it put how it's a whole other thing when corps do the same thing...

but then you posted up and  i felt a hell of a lot better..because it sounded much better than what it first sounded like..

i was this close \o/ to just unplugging for good..hehehe

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, when the oil companies come up with plans like this, they call it price grouging............and the big hammer is slammed hard by a government.  If it's good for the goose, then it's good for the gander........so now we have $15.00 a gallon to look forward to because Exxon/Mobil, Shell, BP have their interests too?  I guess when all the interested corporations are fixing their bottom line together monopoly laws can't be used.  Pretty slick, if you ask me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

if anyone wants. here is a graduated response regime encoded in legislation

http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0011/latest/DLM2764327.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%40deemedreg_copyright_resel_25_h&p=1

this 3-step graduated regime has been in force since 2008

whats telling is that since 2008 has been only one publicly reported case of someone using up their 3 warnings. the person outed themselfs and had a bit of a moan at the time. nobody cared

is no publicly available figures for any others that i know about. the ISPs arent saying. the rippers arent either

++++

more interesting tho is that this amendment introduced two new legal concepts not included in the previous Act

“rights owner means—

(a) a copyright owner; or

(b) a person acting as agent for 1 or more copyright owners"

 

the Act establish Rights as an ownership property in itself. like any other property for the purpose of this law

+

a Rights Owner can appoint an Agent who can act on their behalf with all the legal remedies available to the Agent that are available to the Rights Owner

is quite interesting this development if you look at it from a LBDM (little black dress maker) pov

LBDM can appoint an Agent to chase infringers who rip off their stuff across the interwebz. the Agent can do this and if they can prove the infringement then they can seek legal remedies on your behalf

+

under the previous Act (USA DMCA is the same) only the Copyright Owner could take the action. is basically impossible for a LDDM working from their kitchen table to police the whole interwebz alone

also when they do manage to catch someone then they have to reveal their own real life details to the infringer at the time of notification

the amendment means that the notification action can now be made in the name of the Agent. the Copyright Owner name/details dont have to be revealed until there is an actual court hearing. if that ever happens. most times it doesnt. not when we talking about actual forreals rippers

the ISP/IPAP dont have to accept that an Agent has the Rights just on the Agents own assertion. is a important point that. if an ISP refuses to accept the assertion then the Agent have to show proof that they are who they claim to be

it may be as a consequence that the Copyright Owner(s) reveal themselfs but only to the ISP/IPAP. not to the alleged infringer. as the Agent details get passed to the infringer bc the Agent is the lawful Rights Owner for the purposes of this law

has been carefully thought out this part i think

+

i dunno exactly who worked on this amendment.i kinda suspect tho that whoever did is a LBDM in sl. or they know someone who is

+

when i mention law in these kinds of debates. this is what i mean

do you need a law/regulation? yes or no

if no then ok

if yes then how?

like "how do you make it?" is the question needing to be answer. whether you need it or not has been answered already. the answer becomes No when the answer to how? is: dont know

+

if you got a law already then how can you make it better?

answer: amend it

so maybe it is as easy as that for the USA as well

like amend the DMCA and provide for Agents in the same way

+

wonder how linden/utube/whoevs would react to the LBDMAlliance Agent knocking on their door

probably have 14 kittens 8 puppies and a long nap afterwards (:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some good news everyone. It seems the project was delayed until past this July. There's no specific date as to when they wish to implement it, although evil corporations and ISP's are still hoping this year.

http://torrentfreak.com/us-six-strikes-anti-piracy-scheme-delayed-120518/

That likely means they are scared, and have taken notice people are revolted. This is our chance to react and give them a good scare. What I hope will happen is people establishing a date when they can go to their ISP and protest... maybe knock at their door and have a nice heated discussion (I don't wish to imagine a worse scenario yet).

If such happens the project will certainly be killed, and we would further send a message to those who wish to crush the internet so they understand once and for all we'll never accept it in any form. Including those who support CISPA, who they hopefully understand will also not pass for the sake of both sides and everyone else.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's bad news. The only people for whom it is good news are those who download pirated movies and music. Your attitude to this matter is astonishing - unless you are one of those thieves, of course. Those are the only people who have any reason to be concerned, and the way you've gone on about it does project an impression.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On a separate note, I would like to inform everyone of something even more important. CISPA is going to expire soon and will be voted in the senate... probably secretly and under the desk like we've been used to seeing (so no date is known). Everyone who is against it is strongly advised to call their senators ASAP and firmly ask them to vote against it! I don't have a link but you should be able to find their phone numbers on google and older SOPA / CISPA articles... I'm too tired and outright sick of the whole thing to look them up myself. I consider this even more dangerous than the ISP initiative, and by all means hope this law won't happen either :( As usual, please spread the word and re-post wherever you can so everyone knows. We need to show the senators those who oppose it are large in number, since as with SOPA they will not be able to vote on a law that everyone is visibly against. The house already passed it, so this is even more urgent for that reason.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure. Yes I agree that pirating is bad. But, RIAA's power play is disgusting. It shows just how powerful these corporations have become. They go to congress and get denied, so they pass some cash around and do it behind closed doors, instead.

I think it is that, and the perceived loss of more freedoms that are causing discontent here. At least for me.

 

Are you in the UK Phil? I ask because the UK is far ahead of the US with surveillance and other Big Brother feeling practices. Is it possible you have become numb to privacy invasion and over powered government(or business) tactics? I certainly dont mean that in a bad way. I'm just wondering if it's a mater of perspective. In the US we are just starting to deal with new cameras and techie privacy issues now, and have our guard up. Maybe in a few years we will have no choice but to put up with it as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites


Phil Deakins wrote:

 The only people for whom it is good news are those who download pirated movies and music. Your attitude to this matter is astonishing - unless you are one of those thieves, of course.

Equivilence is:-


Phil Deakins (abridged) wrote:

 You only need to be worried about corporations working together if you're doing something that corporations don't like. Such as not helping them make money.

Consumer rights are important. As is the prevention of allowing market forces to be twisted and allowing consumers to come to harm caused by corporations' predatory greed.

Suggest you review your case.

Link to post
Share on other sites


Freya Mokusei wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

 The only people for whom it is good news are those who download pirated movies and music. Your attitude to this matter is astonishing - unless you are one of those thieves, of course.

Equivilence is:-

Phil Deakins (abridged) wrote:

 You only need to be worried about corporations working together if you're doing something that corporations don't like. Such as not helping them make money.

Consumer rights are important. As is the prevention of allowing market forces to be twisted and allowing consumers to come to harm caused by corporations' predatory greed.

Suggest you review your case.

QFT

...Dres

Link to post
Share on other sites


Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Well, when the oil companies come up with plans like this, they call it price grouging............and the big hammer is slammed hard by a government.  If it's good for the goose, then it's good for the gander........so now we have $15.00 a gallon to look forward to because Exxon/Mobil, Shell, BP have their interests too?  I guess when all the interested corporations are fixing their bottom line together monopoly laws can't be used.  Pretty slick, if you ask me.

i think you will find that there is a law against price-fixing and anti-competive behaviour in the USA. same most other western countries

the Government doesnt slam them when companies try do this. the Courts do

+

gets confusing when try to equate: Government is Law

is not true this

the Government is a body. as a body it is subject to law. same as any other body. body group or body individual

in USA like in any other democratic state, the Court is sole arbiter of the law. the Court can and does hold bodies, including the Government, to account

+

in a Totalitarian State the equation that holds true is: Government is Court

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites


Alisha Matova wrote:

I'm not so sure. Yes I agree that pirating is bad. But, RIAA's power play is disgusting. It shows just how powerful these corporations have become. They go to congress and get denied, so they pass some cash around and do it behind closed doors, instead.

I think it is that, and the perceived loss of more freedoms that are causing discontent here. At least for me.

 

Are you in the UK Phil? I ask because the UK is far ahead of the US with surveillance and other Big Brother feeling practices. Is it possible you have become numb to privacy invasion and over powered government(or business) tactics? I certainly dont mean that in a bad way. I'm just wondering if it's a mater of perspective. In the US we are just starting to deal with new cameras and techie privacy issues now, and have our guard up. Maybe in a few years we will have no choice but to put up with it as well.

am going to stick up for Phil here. not that he needs me to ever. but

what has the proposed actions of the UK Government have to do with anything that he is saying,. Phil has always been a champion of property rights

what he is saying is that in this case the rights of property owners, ie the ISPs, should not be regulated. bc the gateways and the pipes are their property. not ours - the customers

as such they as property owners, should not be dictated to by law/regulation. that they should continue to be allowed to accept or refuse any customers they choose and to solely determine their own Terms of Service

that it is sufficient that the customers can choose whether or not to purchase the service offered. if not the customer can choose to take their custom elsewhere

as a argument for property rights it is sound and there is nothing wrong with it

+

i am actual of the view that this approach is insufficient and that consumer rights are not always respected when ToS are left exclusively to the provider(s). if only bc history shows us this

this is an argument of degree. to what degree should consumer rights affect property rights? and how do we do that

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No need to stick up for anyone. I'm soo not picking on Phil or the UK, and I'm sure he gets that. I'm just trying to understand his perspective. To me, this looks like an obvious Big Brother 1; The People 0, score.

 

Who knows where to draw the line on customer vs provider rights. But, Anything would be better than the back room way this MOA went down.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I've been bringing a lot of "related news" to this thread since the initial discussion, I again received some shocking news from EFF by email (they're a serious source of information) about a potential revive of the actual SOPA / PIPA.

http://act.demandprogress.org/act/vs_hollywood/?referring_akid=.661516.qyUGJ6&source=typ-tw

It appears Hollywood is trying to shut down all cloud websites. Basically, it wishes to take down Youtube, Google Drive, and all cloud services out there, the same way Megaupload was removed. The article mentions them trying to circumvent congress so they can force their law through without a vote. What this means is most major websites which allow file storage would be gone... and we are back at SOPA as we know it.

This comes just a few days after I heard about the ISP initiative and an update on CISPA. Jesus Christ... has the world gone completely mad? Are those groups desperate beyond limit to shut down this internet? They now want sites like Youtube to disappear forever... who almost entirely addressed the issue of copyright material being uploaded. Is this even about copyright any more, or is that just a pretext?

Yeah, I agree... this is an outright war with the entertainment industry at this point. I don't feel like fueling the fire here so people can jump to their own conclusion... I just found the article and linked it. There will probably be more information soon, and if that's true likely another blackout. Feel free to re-post this post anywhere without asking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 3148 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...