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Every region is different and some of them have their own special environmentsettings. So, I would propably ruin the experiance of this place by using my own settings, which may fit for me home, but not for the other parts of SL.

So, I would probably ruin my SL experiance to make some overcritical stranger a little more happier? I don't see where my benefit comes into this... :catfrustrated:

Also everyone will have different settings and I will look horrible to others no matter what I do.

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I get great pleasure in manually derendering facelights. I know the setting is there in the viewer options but there's just something satisfying about turning those facelights off individually. I firs

That's all well and good. As long as you can see that's all the matters. I'm sure many do as I do and turn on the "Do not render attached lights" setting in the viewer. //Just Saying.

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Penny Patton wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:

This first sentence is completely disingenuous.  

 

No, it's really not. First of all, most people don't set up their facelights to get that subdued reduction of face shadows they are hoping for, instead getting the flaring washed out look that disrupts the scene for everyone. Second, even when they do manage a more subdued look it looks out of place and unnatural, breaking immersion and disbelief. In other words, it looks bad.

Sorry, I don't buy it.  You're trying to immerse yourself in SL and, whether you like it or not, SL is chalk full of people with face lights... that's not going to change any time soon.  The best we can hope for is to educate enough people along the way that the supernova effect will eventually become less of an issue.

 


Penny Patton also wrote:

 Second of all, yes certain windlight settings can add to the atmosphere of a location, so does lighting. So wearing a light around can add or detract from a scene depending (which is another reason attachments like lanterns and flashlights can be good in the proper environment for them while invisible light sources pretty much always detract). 

 Meanwhile, yes it's possible to maintain a sense of atmospher while altering the windlight settings to decrease the shadows on one's avatar. Many third party viewers come with such settings standard now.

While it's quite possible, with some effort, for someone with the advanced knowledge that I possess and who uses a TPV, that makes it slightly easier, to adjust their WL settings accordingly... but what about the people that just want to wander around enjoying themselves without having to worry about learning the intricate inner-workings of the SL viewer?

My sister is one of those types of users.  She's not ignorant in the least, yet she'd rather spend her time in SL having fun rather than fiddling around with a bunch of dials and switches.  So she puts on her subtle, little face light and goes about her business... I have to image that's what most people do.  Maybe you think they should all be kicked out of SL to facilitate your sense of immersion... good luck with that.

 


Penny Patton wrote:

 In addition, regarding photos, those are a use case where attached lighting for the purpose of composing an image are very suitable. The idea is to make the lighting look natural enough in relation to the background, while allowing the viewer of the image to easily assume the light sources are a part of the environment or offscreen. There are people who get paid to do this in real life. This illusion is broken if the viewer can see you freeling moving about the environment with no visible light source, which sets of alarms in the back of the viewer's mind, breaking immersion.

So you admit that there are suitable situations in which to use a face light... the problem is, you don't get to decide for everyone else which situation they deem to be suitable.  And I'm the one being accused of being selfish... sheesh.

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Coby Foden wrote:

Something like this is natural -
a visible light source
lighting up the surroundings.

It would look natural in SL too.  It would be ok.

walk-with-lantern.jpg

 

On the other hand,
an invisible light source
lighting up the avatar, nearby other avatars, objects, ground, is not natural.

It just looks weird, out of place.

facelight-on-avatar-2.jpg


The juxtaposition of these two pics, along with your evaluation of what looks "natural" and what looks weird, is laughable.

Sorry that I grabbed that first picture from RL scene instead of making similar one from SL scene.  :smileysad:

Lazy me!  sFi_hammer.gif

 

Anyway, I see you got a good laugh Dres.  Laughter is good and prolongs life.

Maybe my post served good purpose after all.  :matte-motes-big-grin: sLo_heartbeat.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...


Dresden Ceriano wrote:

I'm just happy you took my response in the spirit that it was meant... instead of getting all bent out of shape over it.  For some reason, I've come to expect that from everyone... lol.

...Dres

Actually Dres I agree with your views as well 100%. It is not the idea that there are people who are unhappy with facelights or who wish to enjoy environments as designed that is getting said people a backlash to their stated feelings. It is the ad hominems and non sequiturs about the character and motivations of any who don't comply that is the problem, as well as the seemingly total disregard for both the learning curve of the SL (and any 3D) system and the somewhat non-intuitive nature of the viewers.

There are tons of people who aren't even aware there are other viewers available. I was on here from '07 to mid 2010 before I started using an alternate. And the only way I became aware of any is through this site. Whatever I learned about alternate camera angles or seeing other assets/laser guided brouhaha showing hidden objects/light decay, etc. I learned mostly by accident, or by losing stuff under or above my house! Also through using weather systems with invisible emitters. Some people talk about using an alt to see themselves as if such a thing were obvious to everyone. It's not, and there are a fair amount of people for whom the use of an alt has always equaled evil anyways because there has been that hanging debate over the years as well; even right here on the forums.

Back before Windlight, when facelights were a lot more prevalent, if they went overboard and someone wanted to tell them, they just did. Not everyone took that upon themselves though - some simply let the wearers walk on oblivious, unless asked by the wearers directly. With voice, avies walk around in silence not even obviously communicating at all. Who knows what anyone is thinking about those around them.

The point is, there is no reason to think the worst of everyone who uses these and to imply there is is fallacious reasoning. It's also really unfair to hang 100% of the responsibility on the wearers while never saying a word about the creators of such grief-capable products. Either about creating them in the first place, or about not being honest regarding their undesireable effects.

On a related note, if you could point out where one could get such subtle lights, or even better, lights with adjustable intensity, that would be great. I continue to take a dim view on the idea that because not everyone can see the effect anyway, I might as well simply not use them at all. If that were in any way valid, nobody here would be wearing anything that couldn't be seen in a 1.x viewer, including multiple tattoo layers, alphas, and a host of other things.

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Kascha Matova wrote:

On a related note, if you could point out where one could get such subtle lights, or even better, lights with adjustable intensity, that would be great. I continue to take a dim view on the idea that because not everyone can see the effect anyway, I might as well simply not use them at all. If that were in any way valid, nobody here would be wearing anything that couldn't be seen in a 1.x viewer, including multiple tattoo layers, alphas, and a host of other things.


The facelights I used to wear all the time are the FaceFx Designer Lights by Cris Crash.   One of my alts has some free ones that almost as good.  I'll try to find them tomorrow, if no one else posts the name (I'll remember it when I see it, I'm sure).

Are you sure that people using I.x viewers can't see multiple tattoo layers and alphas?  I know they can't wear them, but it's news to me they can't see them, either.

 

ETA -- The free facelight I recommend is the CG Facelight, made by Cognitive Gears.   Unfortunately, his profile says 


Due to Linden Labs new policy toward free objects, I will no longer be giving away or supporting the CG Facelight or other projects. Please contact Linden Labs and suggest that they change their policy.


This is doubly unfortunate since that particular policy (charging for listing free items in the Marketplace) never actually implemented. If anyone wants a copy, then they're welcome to contact me and I'll send one. But perhaps someone knows where they are distributed.
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Syo Emerald wrote:

So you want to say I can't see when my avatar looks horrible and when she looks normal?

I have made so many experiances, looked at so many different avatar designs....its always any human face that fails with its look when no lights are around. Using a tiny little source of light gets that problem away....but no, you say its quite better to work through a huge menu to figure this damn windlight stuff out.....and this whole process for every region again and again and again......

I can't influence how others will see me, but as long as I look beautiful I'm happy.

I'm always looking at the back of my head. I'm never looking at my face unless I'm doing photowork.

I do set my windlight and keep it set for all regions (just a click in environmental  settings) but not to see myself. I do it to see everything else. I have trouble getting enough light to work with the standard enviroment settings. Setting a windlight is so easy. Many are premade, especially in 3rd party viewers. Anyways... 

 

 

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  • 2 years later...

I would like to try and explain a different perspective with this post.   I am a person who has used  the facelight that came with my premium brand skin.   I do not add things to this such as bling or glitters.   Every day I get countless compliments on my appearance....with the facelight on..      During my short tenure here in SL, I have had 3 rude, experienced SL people point out that my facelight is a problem for them and I need to turn it off.      Now I know I am just a noobie......but if I have 90 people  telling me that my look is one of the best they have seen.....and 3  people telling me my facelight is too bright.....which would you go with?

The simple truth of this situation is the problem is  not just  facelights.    The problem is facelight  +  viewers settings.  Notice...there are two halves to this problem....two people involved.     I just left a place where  person after person complimented my avi......but one individual told me my facelight was too bright and I needed to turn it off.   So is the problem my facelight when 95%  of the people like it.....or the settings that some people have?

There is a large group of facelight haters....and I respect the fact that you may not like them.    I think anything in excess can be a problem....facelights included.     Some people, most very experienced SL users, have adjusted their settings to give them perfect views of SL.   With these settings...it can make facelights appear like a lightbulb.    So is the problem the facelight that is not bothering the majority of the people......or the fact that the vocal minority are long time SL people who want  you to change...so everything appears correct on their screens.with their special settings?

There are two sides to every situation, and with this post I have attempted to share the second side.   I think most people who are complaining about facelights would be horrified if I asked them to change their settings  for my enjoyment; but yet that is what these 3 people have asked me to do.

  To the people who feel strongly about facelights.....realize your settings are 50% of the problem.   You may not like to hear that...but it is true.       You want to correct the problem instantly....change your settings.  An individual earlier stated that this situation is like playing loud music...you have the right to do that...unless it bothers others.    This is very true.....but when others change the settings.....it is a whole different situation.     

 I would like to say that life is too short to spend  fighting over facelights in SL.   This letter was written not to provoke a fight...but to try and help some people realize the situation is not just facelights......half of the problem is with the viewer's settings.  Part of what makes this world, and SL, a wonderful place is everyone is different.     There are many things in SL that I do not  agree with....however I would fight to my death for you to have the freedom  to do them if you wanted.

If you see me some day.....and my face looks like a bright lightbulb......realize that 1.   I use a facelight,     2.   your settings are part of the problem and  3.   I am still a person.      You may not like the way I look on your screen.....but the world is made up of  different people.

In closing,     to all the haters of facelights....... I hope I have not offended you and I want you to have a really great day!   We may not see eye to eye....but we can still be friends.

 

 

 

 

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lillez wrote:

The simple truth of this situation is the problem is  not just  facelights.    The problem is facelight  +  viewers settings.  Notice...there are two halves to this problem....two people involved.

There is a large group of facelight haters....and I respect the fact that you may not like them.    I think anything in excess can be a problem....facelights included.     Some people, most very experienced SL users, have adjusted their settings to give them perfect views of SL.   With these settings...it can make facelights appear like a lightbulb.

  To the people who feel strongly about facelights.....realize your settings are 50% of the problem.   You may not like to hear that...but it is true.

 I would like to say that life is too short to spend  fighting over facelights in SL.   This letter was written not to provoke a fight...but to try and help some people realize the situation is not just facelights......half of the problem is with the viewer's settings.

In closing,     to all the haters of facelights....... I hope I have not offended you and I want you to have a really great day!   We may not see eye to eye....but we can still be friends. 

Not really - hard to be friends with the person who insists I need to wear shades and turn out the lights when around them.

The thing about life is that - there may be many opinions on an issue - but most of them are usually wrong from being improperly informed or self-biased.

 

If you buy any current computer - you have the ability to run around SL with windlight on. The half of the problem that is viewer settings - is on you. You're using outdated settings from about 6-8 years ago. Its not on people using the current settings.

The moment you turn windlight on... considered a normal setting... facelights become a problem.

Its not just about how you look on the screen - its all the glare you create and obstruction of the lighting in the area.

Its not for you to tell all of us to turn off the lighting in SL, so you can be amazing and we just sit in the dark. Flip off that lightbulb, and use normal settings.

 

I can wear and do all sorts of things without messing up how SL will look to someone else near me using SL's normal windlighting settings... all sorts of things - except for strapping a lightbulb onto my nose. Once I do that - I am changing more than just my appearance. At that point - it would be me that was creating the intrusion.

 

Flip on your windlighting, turn your settings up from 2004, to at least 2007... remove your facelight for a moment so you have nothing but this test: Rez a prim next to you, and toggle adding lighting to it. Notice how everything around that prim changes... even more than that prim itself does.

 

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Simple solution, under the advanced menu in the rendering, you can chose not to render attach lights...problem solved.

That might be a solution. But it might also be asking everyone else to limit their visual options because one person refuses to use modern graphics settings.

 

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Its not for you to tell all of us...


That's right. It's for "authorities" like Pussycat to dictate what is good and right to YOU.

Way to misconstrue.

A minority of 1: the person with a lighthouse mounted onto their head... is the one who is rude when that lighthouse forces a reaction in everyone else around them: the larger majority.

Other people being forced to mess with their settings - turning off features or dialing things back to 2008... because of that 1... that makes that 1 person rude.

 

But you also need to learn some definitions there. I'm not dictating. I can't order rude people that mess with everyone else's experience and feel entitled to stop being rude. I can only toss them out of my interractions. But if I say why... maybe it will help prevent someone else from going down the path of feeling so self entitled they feel its right to mess up everyone else around them just for their own personal whatever.

 

 

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Sure I can go turn it off.

 

So now, your lighthouse wearing person lands somewhere... with say... 19 other people.

And now 19 people have to go turn off attached lights because 1 person wants to mess around with wearing a lighthouse?

Why do you consider that burden fair?

 

How is it even possible to feel that the person imposing upon others is the one who has the moral advantage over those they are imposing upon - when the imposition is a non-necessity?

Talk about a rude sense of entitlement...

 

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Person A likes to use a facelight. It's unobtrusive, dialed way down. In fact, you can barely see it unless you zoom in and it's not casting light on anyone outside of a 0 meter radius (see my examples earlier in this very thread).

Person B comes along and is somehow offended by this and is not shy about expressing her displeasure in IM and/or local chat. When she fails to "educate" Person A enough so that they surrender and detach said facelight, she stamps her feet and finally derenders Person A.

Who's the rude and entitled one again???

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Person A likes to use a facelight. It's unobtrusive, dialed way down. In fact, you can barely see it unless you zoom in and it's not casting light on anyone outside of a 0 meter radius (see my examples earlier in this very thread).

 

Person B comes along and is somehow offended by this and is not shy about expressing her displeasure in IM and/or local chat. When she fails to "educate" Person A enough so that they surrender and detach said facelight, she stamps her feet and finally derenders Person A.

 

Who's the rude and entitled one again???

Sadly the reality is different.

Who uses facelights most of the time? Newbies and people with low powered computers. Both will not notice what they are doing to the environment and both will not be able to work out making a proper face light as you described it. They will also not know about what windlight could do for them. Instead, they will have a freebie facelight that lights up the entire dancefloor around them, or wear multiple lights all around their body.

I was once near someone, who made my avatars skin (which was darker at that time) turn as white as a wall. If I would encounter someone like that again, I would probably either derender their facelight by searching for invisible objects or derender the person as a whole, because often their avatars are not that pretty either, so not a big lose to the view.

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Syo Emerald wrote:


Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Person A likes to use a facelight. It's unobtrusive, dialed way down. In fact, you can barely see it unless you zoom in and it's not casting light on anyone outside of a 0 meter radius (see my examples earlier in this very thread).

 

Person B comes along and is somehow offended by this and is not shy about expressing her displeasure in IM and/or local chat. When she fails to "educate" Person A enough so that they surrender and detach said facelight, she stamps her feet and finally derenders Person A.

 

Who's the rude and entitled one again???

Sadly the reality is different.

Who uses facelights most of the time? Newbies and people with low powered computers. Both will not notice what they are doing to the environment and both will not be able to work out making a proper face light as you described it. They will also not know about what windlight could do for them. Instead, they will have a freebie facelight that lights up the entire dancefloor around them, or wear multiple lights all around their body.

I was once near someone, who made my avatars skin (which was darker at that time) turn as white as a wall. If I would encounter someone like that again, I would probably either derender their facelight by searching for invisible objects or derender the person as a whole, because often their avatars are not that pretty either, so not a big lose to the view.

I've seen cases of people wearing Facelights because they were told they made them look better when on their own (low end) computers they couldn't even see the difference.

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(I'm responding in general, Perrie... not to you specifically.)

Oh, give me a break... this issue is not black and white (or should I say dark and light).  The problem with anti-facelight nazis is that they take no consideration for those of us who wear extremely subtle facelights.  Obviously, someone wearing a facelight which is very bright is a distraction and rightly subject to all sorts of ridicule, if someone should choose to be so discourteous.

I guarantee you that should Pussycat run across me on a sim whilst I was wearing my facelight, she wouldn't even notice unless she were right up against my face (which is a scary proposition, simply because I can only picture her doing so in order to hold a blade against my jugular).

On the other hand, there are far too many people wearing far too brightly lit facelights in SL. Most need not be chastised for sake of their ignorance... a little information goes a long way (a picture would help in getting the point across, if all else fails).

All I'm saying is that there need not be such a divide between facelight users and non-facelight aficionados.  A little bit of education given to those who know no better and a little bit of acceptance displayed by the dramatically annoyed prima donnas, would go a hell of a long way toward conquering the great divide.

...Dres

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