Paul Hexem Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 People have been asking for mobile SL. Looks like Microsoft is bringing us one step closer to it. They've announced their own tablet capable of running traditional Windows software. All that's left now is for powerful graphics processing to become smaller to fit in their tablet. Sure, it's still no gaming rig, but it makes the iPad look like an Etch-A-Sketch.http://lm.pcworld.com/t/3536132/5573006/325062/0/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: ... All that's left now is for powerful graphics processing to become smaller to fit in their tablet. Sure, it's still no gaming rig. I don't think it has to do with size. It's all about cooling. Period. ETA Mobile SL is here already. Android has an app for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 But a mobile me is far off! I don't have any mobile technology, except perhaps my Decca gramophone record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Storm pretty much nailed it. Mobile SL at any quality and frame rate requires a fairly beefy GPU and even a fairly decent CPU. Both are equivalent to sucking the power of any battery dry in no time at all. It'd be possible to offload that into a cloud rendering server, but that's fairly expensive and pretty much suffers from one big problem: Mobile devices these days don't usually have unlimited data anymore (especially if you look at other countries too). I wish MS all the best with their Surface tablet, but at this point in time they haven't given any kind of useful information whatsoever about the mystery device. My guess is: Too little, too late. MS missed the bus a long, long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Well, the Surface packs core i5 arlready, and 2 gigs of RAM. That's in the range of a good laptop. Like I said, all that's left is GPU- yeah, cooling is the issue. Sure, batteries are a problem, but that's what vehicle and solar power adapters are for. And the Android app doesn't count, it doesn't giv e half the options a full viewer does. The point is, MS is showing us just how much power can be stuffed into a tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orca Flotta Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm already disappointed by the experience I get from a fairly powerful laptop. Playing SL on some tablet is still a far way off ... and only to get a below par performance? No, thank you, but no. And all the compromises only to connect to SL for 5 minutes on the subway ride to offfice? I can't even think about playing SL if I don't have at least 2 or 3 hours time to kill. Besides I think those tablets are a hype. They will die out soon. As soon as people find out they can't do much with them anyway. Tablets are for consumers, not for active virtual world residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Redangel Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 They would have to make a much simpler version of Second Life to run on a hand-held mobile device. Has anyone checked out Facebook's new 3D MMO Cloud Party? Well it's basically like SL before we got really cool builds, textures, skins, etc. It sort of looks like the SIMs and this other really tiny MMO called Onverse. It's completely browser based. Personally, I have an iPhone, and I'll play Angry Birds or watch Netflix on it, but I really don't want to play Second Life on it. I don't have any desire to own an iPad, because I already have the phone, and that's just too much crap to carry around. But aside from that, I love playing Second Life on a huge monitor. When presented the choice, I would choose a desktop with a heftier graphics card, processor, and big, beautiful display screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 i like my Ipad..it holds a 10 hour charge..so usually when i grab it it has a lot of life in it.. i can't seem to find where microsoft talks about how long their charge will avg on the surface.. plus i'm not gonna be doing all kinds of powerful stuff on something like this anyways..it's for like waiting rooms and places i know i am going to be bored sitting for awhile away from the house.. it's powerful enough that i can do some photo editing in and lots of simple things..plus it takes amazing pictures hehehe i just don't think there is enough there to make me feel bad that i bought an Ipad.. i'm all for battery time on these things rather than power.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masami Kuramoto Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: People have been asking for mobile SL. Looks like Microsoft is bringing us one step closer to it. They've announced their own tablet capable of running traditional Windows software. All that's left now is for powerful graphics processing to become smaller to fit in their tablet. Sure, it's still no gaming rig, but it makes the iPad look like an Etch-A-Sketch. http://lm.pcworld.com/t/3536132/5573006/325062/0/ The Microsoft offer sucks, as usual. The SL-capable tablet you are looking for is the Asus Transformer Book, because it has the Nvidia GPU that the MS Surface Pro is sadly missing. But then again, is SL even ready for the touch screen? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Masami Kuramoto wrote: ...is SL even ready for the touch screen? I doubt it. I agree. I would not want you 'touching' my avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 The point I was trying to make is that we have been, and keep saying, that tablets are no good for SL, not enough power, etc., and there's Microsoft, stuffing the most powerful processor they can fit, inside a tablet. And the thing is capable of running a lot of software traditionally thought was only available on PCs, barring GPU intensive software. Which is significant. Which means- How much time before we see someone figure out cooling and stuff a good nVidia GPU into a tablet with that kind of RAM and CPU power? Ten years? Five? Even less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: How much time before we see someone figure out cooling and stuff a good nVidia GPU into a tablet with that kind of RAM and CPU power? Ten years? Five? Even less? Interesting question. I say 10 years or more. With new materials for chips and thermal interface technologies being researched and tested there are signs of significant improvement. Nanotechnology has helped as carbon nanotubes have excellent heat conducting properties. Nanocarpets have been designed and tested over 5 years ago... there's lots of heat generated in a 2-3GHZ chip. Several chips generating that much heat is a killer - you would burn your fingers holding the device. ETA The International Journal of Heat and Mass Transfer is an excellent source to keep you informed of progress being made in this field. I think you need to be a subscriber (I am.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: Which means- How much time before we see someone figure out cooling and stuff a good nVidia GPU into a tablet with that kind of RAM and CPU power? Ten years? Five? Even less? Cooling will not be the issue, as batteries small and light enough for handheld devices can't carry enough energy to heat something all day, and people don't want hot things in their hands. So it's not a matter of getting rid of heat, it's a matter of not creating it in the first place. If you believe Imagination Technologies, the creators of the PowerVR graphics technology in the iPhone and iPad, we'll have current desktop level graphics in handheld devices within three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: Which means- How much time before we see someone figure out cooling and stuff a good nVidia GPU into a tablet with that kind of RAM and CPU power? Ten years? Five? Even less? Cooling will not be the issue, as batteries small and light enough for handheld devices can't carry enough energy to heat something all day, and people don't want hot things in their hands. So it's not a matter of getting rid of heat, it's a matter of not creating it in the first place. If you believe Imagination Technologies, the creators of the PowerVR graphics technology in the iPhone and iPad, we'll have current desktop level graphics in handheld devices within three years. You haven't played a game on a phone with an Nvidia Tegra 3 chipset have you? That gets somewhat uncomfortably hot and as far as specification goes, yes it's not going to compete with my desktop but I believe that there's plenty of scope in it to get a fully functioning SL client working more than adequately given that plenty of people plod along with the woefully inadequate Intel embedded graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 There is so much data in trade journals that dispute the performance of these 'thinner' chips. But we are not talking performance we are talking heat conductivity... and heat generated by 3D processing. The article you linked to actually said nothing with regard to the "how." It is one companies claim and they are 3 years away. Heat is always the issue with cpu/gpu processing, and even more so when we apply 3D as it requires some 60 billion instructions per second just on the gpu (that's a lot of electrons bouncing around ergo heat generation.) Like I said, new materials and thermal interface technology has made improvements, but we are still way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucagrabacr Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It's probably already possible via cloud gaming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_gaming Not only you can play from your mobile / tablets, but even from your TV's lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 lucagrabacr wrote: It's probably already possible via cloud gaming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_gaming Not only you can play from your mobile / tablets, but even from your TV's lol Gaming as a service (cloud gaming) is not new. Actually it has been around for a number of years. However, when we speak of SL and 3D gaming we are talking about a whole different issue. I don't think it is 'that' straight forward to have LL offer their 3D SL services in a cloud, and just to satisfy a few mobile users. In addition, 3D graphics must still be rendered by a gpu on the client (or it would have been done already.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Overdrive Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Sassy Romano wrote: You haven't played a game on a phone with an Nvidia Tegra 3 chipset have you? That gets somewhat uncomfortably hot and as far as specification goes, yes it's not going to compete with my desktop but I believe that there's plenty of scope in it to get a fully functioning SL client working more than adequately given that plenty of people plod along with the woefully inadequate Intel embedded graphics. That's the truth. I chuckle when people quickly dismiss the idea of running SL on a phone or tablet. If they only want to use SL on their desktop computers, then great. But many do run SL with low end machines already. Personally I would love even a halfway functioning client for my phone or tablet that allowed me to still see the world even if it is only at 5 frames per second. It would be a huge leap forward from the terrible text only clients currently available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucagrabacr Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Storm Clarence wrote: I don't think it is 'that' straight forward to have LL offer their 3D SL services in a cloud, and just to satisfy a few mobile users. I thought so too, just giving out possible alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Cooling will not be the issue, as batteries small and light enough for handheld devices can't carry enough energy to heat something all day, and people don't want hot things in their hands. So it's not a matter of getting rid of heat, it's a matter of not creating it in the first place. Of course it is a matter of getting rid of the heat -- once we figure out how to 'create' the lasting energy source needed that produces the heat. Battery technology had evolved greatly in the past few years. Getting rid of the heat from both the battery and the chips is a whole different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Seven Overdrive wrote: That's the truth. I chuckle when people quickly dismiss the idea of running SL on a phone or tablet. No one is quickly dismissing the idea. We are discussing the adverse ramifications of an implementation. Sure you can run SL on a phone or tablet, but your experience is exponentially diminished. You think you have lag now, wait until you play on a tablet or phone... and all for about 11 minutes. That is not enjoying the game to me; it is nothing but a PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masami Kuramoto Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: The point I was trying to make is that we have been, and keep saying, that tablets are no good for SL, not enough power, etc., and there's Microsoft, stuffing the most powerful processor they can fit, inside a tablet. And the thing is capable of running a lot of software traditionally thought was only available on PCs, barring GPU intensive software. Which is significant. Which means- How much time before we see someone figure out cooling and stuff a good nVidia GPU into a tablet with that kind of RAM and CPU power? Ten years? Five? Even less? You are not paying attention. The tablet you are looking for is the Asus Transformer Book, unveiled at this year's Computex show in Taiwan. It has an Ivy Bridge Core and a discrete Nvidia GPU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Overdrive Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The experience would be no more diminished than it is logging in with what is available currently for SL on mobile devices. My point is it wouldn't necessarily need to be a full functioning viewer that gives the same performance as the regular viewer. I would be satisfied to be able to see more than only text when I am enjoying my morning coffee at Starbucks or where ever. The lag wouldn't matter to me. That certainly didn't stop me from enjoying SL when I had to use an under powered laptop to log in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Storm Clarence wrote: Seven Overdrive wrote: That's the truth. I chuckle when people quickly dismiss the idea of running SL on a phone or tablet. No one is quickly dismissing the idea. We are discussing the adverse ramifications of an implementation. Sure you can run SL on a phone or tablet, but your experience is exponentially diminished. You think you have lag now, wait until you play on a tablet or phone... and all for about 11 minutes. That is not enjoying the game to me; it is nothing but a PITA. No we can't! There is presently no SL graphical viewer for a phone or tablet so you can't make a blanket statement that we can and it will be too slow. I'll ask again, have you tried a phone or tablet with a Tegra 3 chipset recently to see what sort of rendering is possible? Take a look at Nvidia's "glowball" demo video on Youtube for example. Of course, it is optimised but it's a better platform than a laptop with an intel onboard graphics chip. Anyway, for now, I let a machine at home do the rendering and I use Splashtop to stream to my phone. For those who say the screen is too small, yes a phone on its own is a bit poor but three finger gesture (and the media link) sends it to a TV/monitor which is just fine for portability and travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Sassy Romano wrote: Storm Clarence wrote: Seven Overdrive wrote: That's the truth. I chuckle when people quickly dismiss the idea of running SL on a phone or tablet. No one is quickly dismissing the idea. We are discussing the adverse ramifications of an implementation. Sure you can run SL on a phone or tablet, but your experience is exponentially diminished. You think you have lag now, wait until you play on a tablet or phone... and all for about 11 minutes. That is not enjoying the game to me; it is nothing but a PITA. No we can't! There is presently no SL graphical viewer for a phone or tablet so you can't make a blanket statement that we can and it will be too slow. You may find this link interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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