Ceka Cianci Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: Some have said that pulling this off means that I have "won" the "game." Of course, they have said this derisively, with the intent of mocking us "free loaders." But I take it as a compliment. Truly I have "won." I don't fret over paying tier, obsess over a "business," or do without in RL cuzuv the $$$ I spent playing SL. So as far as I'm concerned it's all in fun & I'm not concerned about any perceived lack of goodwill on LL's part towards anyone. Jeanne i was the one saying you won the game..but it had nothing to do with you wanting to do everything for free.. i have no problem with people that wish to do that..so please don't go changing why i said something like i am some weak stupid idiot.. my problem is when those people decide to think they are doing it the right way and the rest of us are stupid for not doing it as they do.. i'm not sitting on one side of the bar or the other in that area..i don't like when people that come here and do things for free are called freeloaders either.. i don't like when one group imposes on another..and i sure don't like when someone thinks they know me like a book because of where i am standing at the time.. my comment about you winning the game.it was sarcasm towards your thinking everyone is stupid if they don't dance how you dance here.. i put my money in here because i have it to do it..not because i'm sucked in and addicted or trying to make a living..i like it here and like a lot of stuff i can do here and don't look at it as an investment more than just entertainment or a place to relax..plus it curbs my vice of rl shopping...my husband just loves that part of it..because it actually ends up saving money in the end..he loves to save.. lol i put my money into a lot of things other than sl as well..i don't let politics decide for me where to put it..and i sure haven't let people pressure me into where it goes.. i don't go buying blood diamonds or anything like that..but i sure am not gonna let politics get in the way of doing something i want to do..i'm not gonna get herded from some sheep herder in a direction i don't want to go..not when i aware of more options at my disposal.. i'm living in the bible belt surrounded with conservatism and extremists and corps just wearing out the avg working community to the point that they are having to hold 3 jobs to make ends meet..i mean walk into any gas station in the morning or quick stop or just about any small business that is a mom and pop place to get a tea..there is always a small group there talking about their clique crap.. corps know they don't have to win over the whole town to get things done..they just have to win over the few that have the power..no matter how things are won or lost on votes..they still get passed because of the few rather than the majority.. letting everyone from outside the county come in and use our land fill..it was voted and won to be closed but still got passed because of those with the most land..not the number of tax payers.. so the corps still get to dump there.. right to work state..yay that just means they can wear out the workers more and give corps more room to make the avg worker have to work for 3 corps instead of one just to make ends meet.. super walmart movng in killing off every small town business related because it's a one stop shop that is known to be a small town business killer.. meanwhile everyone stands around bitching about how the town is fallin apart..hey lets go to walmart and get some poster boards and go protest in town square..hey while we're there i'll get the stuff for sandwiches and some drinks and we'll make a day of it..ya we'll show this town just how much we care!1 \o/ other than my business investments i also work for one of the largest privately owned corps in north america..how they treat the guys there is about as close to china sweat shop as it gets..this time of year guys will start to fall out because of the heat and because the owner that has over a billion in the bank is so cheap that he doesn't want to turn on the vents for fresh air to keep down the electric bill that would keep down the temps on the workers.. it was 120 in there last night..3 guys fell out and had to be put in the cooler room..all because air conditioning in the empty offices and office areas is way more important that the guys dealing with melted aluminum leaning over scolding hot parts getting constantly burnt because they can't keep up with the speed the lines were set at... trying to tell me about how bad corps are is like trying to teach a bullfrog to croak.. it's one thing to be informative..it's another to act like everyone else is in the dark.. insulting someones intelligence is not going to make your point any more valid than when you started.. it will skew it because your attitude ends up overshadowing your points you are trying to make.. i don't have a problem with you or how you live your sl..never spend a dime and that's great.. i have a problem when people try to tell me i have no clue what i am doing in mine or that i am a sheep.. you'll just end up with sarcasms because of the extremist approach you chose.. 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Phil Deakins Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: >>To be honest, I've never used the marketplace, or its predecessors, so all the screw-ups that LL have caused with it haven't affected me in the slightest.<< Then why do you even care? Why do you keep complaining about it? It's like you're obsessing over something that apparently doesn't even concern you. I care because SL is something that I've enjoyed and I would have liked LL to treat customers as normal companies treat customers. I've observed many things that LL have done that have turned me against the company. Those things never needed to affect me personally. They showed the character/nature of the company, and that's what matters to me. I don't complain about it. I make statements of what I believe to be facts. I don't obsess about it. I make statements as to what I've observed. When the topic comes up, I'm more than happy to join in, but it's not by way of complaints as such, and it's not obsession. The way that LL treats customers does concern me because I am a customer. The fact that each individual thing they do against customers doesn't affect me personally is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Ceka Cianci wrote: i don't need to be in constant communication with LL..infact i don't want to be in a position where i have to worry why they haven't spoken to me..i don't need updated constantly.. I don't mean "constant communication". I just mean communication when it's needed. The grossly faulty marketplace is just an example of the lack of it. The faults (described in detail a few posts back) have customers tearing their hair out. Those customers aren't just chatting amongst themselves about it. As customers, they want the company to communicate with them about it and keep them informed as to progress, etc., but they don't get more that "we know there's a problem and we're dealing with it". Apparently, they've "known about and are dealing with" some of the faults a lot longer than the customers realised. It would be fine if the fix was reasonably quick but it's been many months and they are being told nothing. They are paying customers, and they are treated like that! I'm sorry, Ceka, but I see nothing about Rodvik that is improving users' SL experience. You gave the tools that may come from Realms as something positive, which it is, but it's only a small improvement. There have been big changes in the past - sculpties, mesh (started before Rodvik, I think), etc. - under previous CEOs, so Rodvik's small 'tools' change isn't anything to his great credit. Making the company treat its customers as actual customers would be greatly to his credit, but he has overseen a decline in that particular aspect. I'm sorry, but I see nothing good from him at all, and I do see a decline. People, including me, actually want to feel like the company and the users are on the same side in the SL venture, just like it is with normal companies and their customers, but it's a 'them and us' situation and I see no signs of it changing. It didn't used to be like that but it's like that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Phil Deakins wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: i don't need to be in constant communication with LL..infact i don't want to be in a position where i have to worry why they haven't spoken to me..i don't need updated constantly.. I don't mean "constant communication". I just mean communication when it's needed. The grossly faulty marketplace is just an example of the lack of it. The faults (described in detail a few posts back) have customers tearing their hair out. Those customers aren't just chatting amongst themselves about it. As customers, they want the company to communicate with them about it and keep them informed as to progress, etc., but they don't get more that "we know there's a problem and we're dealing with it". Apparently, they've "known about and are dealing with" some of the faults a lot longer than the customers realised. It would be fine if the fix was reasonably quick but it's been many months and they are being told nothing. They are paying customers, and they are treated like that! I'm sorry, Ceka, but I see nothing about Rodvik that is improving users' SL experience. You gave the tools that may come from Realms as something positive, which it is, but it's only a small improvement. There have been big changes in the past - sculpties, mesh (started before Rodvik, I think), etc. - under previous CEOs, so Rodvik's small 'tools' change isn't anything to his great credit. Making the company treat its customers as actual customers would be greatly to his credit, but he has overseen a decline in that particular aspect. I'm sorry, but I see nothing good from him at all, and I do see a decline. People, including me, actually want to feel like the company and the users are on the same side in the SL venture, just like it is with normal companies and their customers, but it's a 'them and us' situation and I see no signs of it changing. It didn't used to be like that but it's like that now. i'm not trying to change your way of seeing it or anyone elses..because i don't live those sl lives.. and mine won't be changing any time soon because of someone elses experiences.. and when i spoke about mesh..i believe i was pointing at the deformer..not that it was made by LL because it wasn't..users paid 5k or so because those that had been working on mesh since it was first announced back in 2009 didn't add it..so now the current lindens are working with quarl to get it server side and working right.. i'm not up on all the little drama surrounding that venture..i'm sure there is some somewhere..i just know they are working on it..it's something that could have been turned down but hasn't been..i have confidence that we'll see it because this current set of lindens hasn't left me with the feeling they are bullsh!tting me or are gonna take years to get it here.. i'm looking forward to it because i think it's gonna be a big improvement and open up mesh for a lot more that feel limited by it right now.. as far as my pro's and cons with LL..those are mine.. your's are your's.. and being outnumbered in a thread really never intimidated me or changed my view about anything..just as poll's never have..because i know darn well that the grid is not full of people worried about all the things that get worried about in the forums.. heck a lot don't even know the forums exist to get exposed to a lot of the things that get worried about in here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 >>i was the one saying you won the game..but it had nothing to do with you wanting to do everything for free..<< ok Ceka .. i didnt remember who said it .. i think more than one person has .. >>i have no problem with people that wish to do that..so please don't go changing why i said something like i am some weak stupid idiot..<< i dont think youre a weak stupid idiot .. i think youre cool! >>i'm not sitting on one side of the bar or the other in that area..i don't like when people that come here and do things for free are called freeloaders either..<< ohh, i dont mind being called a freeloader .. i think that there were some who didnt want ppl who play for free to be called that .. but i think its how a lotuv ppl think so i appreciate them being honest LoL >>my comment about you winning the game.it was sarcasm towards your thinking everyone is stupid if they don't dance how you dance here..<< Well, it really doesnt matter what i think, does it? The point i try to make is that LL allows & encourages ppl to play for free so that the entire burden of supporting SL & making LL execs rich falls on those who do choose to pay to play. I dont think thats fair. My purpose isnt to gloat over getting over, or mock 'suckers' who pay while others dont .. My purpose is to point out the inherent unfairness of LL's business model. If anything, I praise those who pay cuz they make it so that i dont have to. What id really like to see is for ppl to rise up & do something about this unfair situation ~& all the other stuff they dont like about LL~ rather than just complain about it in this forum. >>i put my money in here because i have it to do it..not because i'm sucked in and addicted or trying to make a living..i like it here and like a lot of stuff i can do here...<< i believe you Ceka .. but how many are addicted? I bet lots. I sortuv was myself .. prolly still am .. altho not as bad as before my old puter went down. Not having a puter & not being able to log in2 SL for 10 days taught me that i can actually live w/out SL. I dont want to have to tho .. cuz i like SL too!! :catvery-happy: >>trying to tell me about how bad corps are is like trying to teach a bullfrog to croak..<< what you said about working conditions & how it is where you live was cool .. thanks for sharing!! i didnt figure you were one who needs to hear my criticisms of corporatism .. i know that for many im just preaching to the choir. i just think that ppl who complain about LL need to realize & understand that the problem runs way deeper than just LL management's incompetence .. that the problems are built in2 the economic paradigm we all suffer under ~as you yourself so ably describe~ & that LL is no worse than any other soulless sociopathic corporate wealth vampire ... You dont need to hear this but plenty do .. specially a lotuv merchants & content creators & ppl like that who tend to dominate this forum & who take SL's toy economy seriously & get all bent & hostile over a game that's supposed to be fun .. & IS fun if ppl just play it for entertainment like you say you do >>you'll just end up with sarcasms because of the extremist approach you chose..<< Ok Ceka .. point taken .. i guess youre right .. Thing is tho, that often no1 listens if i dont take an extremist approach. & besides, i only post on this forum when i cant get inworld .. im bored on here. If i can stir up a ltl controversy it makes the day go by faster .. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachJubilee Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Why would a small minority who stand to benefit impose the dumping on the rest of you? Well they are not going to be forced along with the herd when they know they have options. Look if they don't use or own nightclubs and something bad happens to ruin all the fun and income of the nightclub set, the dump-profiters are not effected so they don't have a problem. You've got dumping imposed on the majority by a minority because your "I don't care about you or anyone else, so long as I got mine" mentality is the only legitimate morality and attitude in the "market democracy" model. The dump profiters are being rational actors, and we should all celebrate not only their freedom to do so, but that they rationally choose to do so. You should not care about the nightclubs Ceka, it would be irrational to do so, just as the dump profiters should not spare a thought for anyone who does not want to be imposed on by the dumping. You also should not care if they come for the Jews, unless you are a Jew of course. If it's not your problem, what kind of an irrational herd like plonker would you be to care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda Connolly Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 You also should not care if they come for the Jews, unless you are a Jew of course. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a Godwin! *whips off her pants and waves them in salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Otoole Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 the only thing lindens are doing is sending out resumes. get the clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Brenda Connolly wrote: You also should not care if they come for the Jews, unless you are a Jew of course. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a Godwin! *whips off her pants and waves them in salute. Should I ever feel the desire to see you pants-less, I now know how to get you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda Connolly Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Brenda Connolly wrote: You also should not care if they come for the Jews, unless you are a Jew of course. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a Godwin! *whips off her pants and waves them in salute. Should I ever feel the desire to see you pants-less, I now know how to get you there. A nice dinner and a few glasses of wine also work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachJubilee Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Brenda Connolly wrote: You also should not care if they come for the Jews, unless you are a Jew of course. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a Godwin! *whips off her pants and waves them in salute. Ladies and Gentlement, we have another one who does not understand the point of Godwin's formulation. We'll ignore the fact that the nazis are not the first or only folk to come for the Jews (while perhaps no one expects it, surely most of us have at least heard of the Spanish inquisition) or that the point of the literature you seek to censor my reference to is not about nazis per say, but merely references that subject matter as a real world example and inspiration of the epiphany the particular piece of literature referenced was attempting to convey. Godwin's law is intended to preserve the power of the subject material it discourages inappropriately glib and hyperbolic use of, because that subject matter has value in appropriate contexts. The law assumes that the subject matter has innate value in discussion where it is not hyperbolic, and that hence the glib misuse of it is to be avoided. The use of the law to censor all discussion of the subject material, rendering it utterly valueless in discourse is diametrically opposed to the purpose and justification of the law, yet, that's how you are using that law here. But you need not worry. Most of the audience you seek e-peen from with your pantie whipping censorship probably do not understand the meme any better than you do, and are likely to be fooled into thinking you are as sophisticated as you think you are when you engage in this shallow and uncomprehending form of censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Triple Peccable wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: still the ones that are unhappy..they are still here..so there has to be something they like about the place hehehe Yeah, it's called addiction... no, it's pathological complainers. They'll complain about anything and everything, all the time. Nothing is ever good enough, things were always better in the past. Yet they also complain about how change isn't coming fast enough, that XXX is needed to make things perfect, then complain about XXX as soon as it's announced or implemented. It's a constant in online communities, even more so than IRL. I shrug it off. It's a small but very vocal group of people doing it, making themselves appear to be much larger by using multiple accounts each, talking to themselves to make it appear to the world at large there is a massive group of malcontents, that the world is BAD because of whatever. Are there freeloaders in SL? Of course there are. Are there more than in the past? Quite likely, the economy isn't good as you may have noticed so there are more people with no money to throw around. The ones I realy pity are the officious oafs who claim that anyone not having a premium account and willing to pay thousands of L$ just for the privilege (non-refundable of course) of looking at a sim aren't decent residents and should all be shunned. Met one just yesterday, first thing she asked me was how many L$ I had. When I refused to tell her I was kicked from the sim. Come again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Yes, i think goodwill is running thin towards the lindens from business owners, and is it any surprise? The Lindens have all but stopped communicating with the business community. They seem in fact to be working against it, unless you are one of their favored few. that's because that same community gives them flak whatever they do because they see it as a threat to themselves. Consumers scream for higher definition default skins, shapes, etc. LL provides, skin/shape creators get pissed off. And that's just one scenario, it's the same always. So LL can't do right to some people, and get so much negativity from those people they've effectively decided to not communicate at all except through announcements. You only (as a group, not individual) have yourself to blame. And it's not just LL, it's the same across the industry. MS closed down most of their channels for feedback from customers for that same reason, as did others. 99%+ of the flood of messages were complaints about nothing, attempts at drama, or worse, to the point anything even remotely valuable gets lost. So instead of having people try to sort it all for the occasional gem, the channel gets shut down and those people employed otherwise (or let go). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: cinda Hoodoo wrote: You know it has always been my feelings that anyone that is on the payroll of Linden Labs, should be required to maintain a regular avi, that either has a business or a home as a regular joe blow resident. To play in the game, to create, or try to, to observe thru a residents eyes what the problems are. Hands on in SL with the Lindens has become non existent. So they wonder why the Phoenix/Firestorm viewer is WAYYYY more popular than theirs, well for one they keep open channels of communication with volunteers mind you, in 2 group chats that run around the clock. What is even more amazing is they listen to the residents, help them past hurdles, find bugs fast, and have to fight Linden Labs tooth and nail for any changes they want to make, because lord knows no one can be better than the LL viewer in SL. Now any company with an ounce of common sense, could figure this out, unless you're so stove up in your ivory tower, you will just let them eat cake and be happy. I'm trying to imagine what it would be like on "group chats that run around the clock" with Lindens, rather than with TPV volunteers. Even in the Firestorm group chats, there's occasional hostility. If chat support were instead provided by people who actually got paid for their efforts, the level of slighted entitlement would be much worse. Frankly, my impression is that goodwill is indeed running thin -- because SL users have become bitchy on a hair trigger. I'm not sure if this is an acquired response to lack of support when problems are stated civilly, or if it's the result of some selection process by which anybody with a passably pleasant personality is systematically driven from Second Life. (Also, I'm not sure we can tell whether or not all Lindens are already required to have and use a regular, non-Linden account. For all we know, they may already walk amongst us--and as with the general population, some share of them may be lost to vampirism, Gor, or obsessive breedable husbandry.) been there, done that (though not for LL), and you're spot on. The customer base, with their ever increasing hostility and ever reducing willingness to pay for goods, services, and support, only have themselves to blame for companies withdrawing from direct contact with customers/users except through paid for support contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Mokusei Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 jwenting wrote: The customer base, with their ever increasing hostility and ever reducing willingness to pay for goods, services, and support, only have themselves to blame for companies withdrawing from direct contact with customers/users except through paid for support contracts. Without disagreeing entirely (because I think you're on the right track), this does seem to be putting the cart before the horse. With most/all successful attempts to get SL-based services to change, volume has been a deciding factor. The louder people squawk, the more likely they are to have their concerns actioned on. This is a learned response to an inability to see or recognise customer concerns before they turn into insane screamfests. Agreed that this sucks, but people reap what they sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 You're citing Niemöller's poem in a context other than the Holocaust--to express dissatisfaction with a frivolous part of a waning online pastime, even--and you call an objection a "shallow and uncomprending form of censorship"? Entitlement much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 >>..."I don't care about you or anyone else, so long as I got mine" mentality is the only legitimate morality and attitude in the "market democracy" model.<< Yayyy!! You grok the socio-economic paradigm we're born into here in the West, & suffer under all our lives! You understand LL's motives. You've figured things out! You've "won" the "game" !! Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Ann Otoole wrote: the only thing lindens are doing is sending out resumes. get the clue? I spent the last two years censoring a forum where users complain about a virtual world not being real enuf .. or being too real .. Hire me!! I'm desperate !!! Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 >>no, it's pathological complainers. They'll complain about anything and everything, all the time. Nothing is ever good enough...<< Dear Lindens, I wanna complain about all the complainers complaining all the time. I demand that you do something about it!! >>Are there freeloaders in SL? Of course there are.<< Of course there are & why shouldn't there be? LL has set SL up so that the only rational way to play it is to play for free. There's no real or tangible reason not to play for free. The few perks granted to those who choose to pay to play don't return value for what they cost. There are plenty of freebies, plenty of places you can hang out, plenty to do.. without spending a cent on SL. It's entirely possible to hava whole lotta fun in SL absolutely for free. >>The ones I realy pity are the officious oafs who claim that anyone not having a premium account and willing to pay thousands of L$ just for the privilege (non-refundable of course) of looking at a sim aren't decent residents and should all be shunned.<< You should read the chpt. in "Cows, Pigs, Wars & Witches" about potlatch & conspicuous consumption & the ape's drive for prestige. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 PeachJubilee wrote: Why would a small minority who stand to benefit impose the dumping on the rest of you? Well they are not going to be forced along with the herd when they know they have options. Look if they don't use or own nightclubs and something bad happens to ruin all the fun and income of the nightclub set, the dump-profiters are not effected so they don't have a problem. You've got dumping imposed on the majority by a minority because your "I don't care about you or anyone else, so long as I got mine" mentality is the only legitimate morality and attitude in the "market democracy" model. The dump profiters are being rational actors, and we should all celebrate not only their freedom to do so, but that they rationally choose to do so. You should not care about the nightclubs Ceka, it would be irrational to do so, just as the dump profiters should not spare a thought for anyone who does not want to be imposed on by the dumping. You also should not care if they come for the Jews, unless you are a Jew of course. If it's not your problem, what kind of an irrational herd like plonker would you be to care? nice try but you misunderstood what i said ..you must not have been paying attention to what i have been saying this whole thread.. but i guess you just couldn't wait to get a bite in.. the reason i wouldn't care about the news about nightclubs or that it would not hurt my business is for one..it never made the headlines..i wouldn't have been looking in the night club section to even know about it.. two..it's unrelated to any business i am in so i still wouldn't have heard about it.. not knowing about it how can i give a damn? what did you only read two posts clump them together and think you had a dinger? also save the"there was nobody left when they came for me" speech ..they already came for my people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 JeanneAnne wrote: >>i was the one saying you won the game..but it had nothing to do with you wanting to do everything for free..<< ok Ceka .. i didnt remember who said it .. i think more than one person has .. >>i have no problem with people that wish to do that..so please don't go changing why i said something like i am some weak stupid idiot..<< i dont think youre a weak stupid idiot .. i think youre cool! >>i'm not sitting on one side of the bar or the other in that area..i don't like when people that come here and do things for free are called freeloaders either..<< ohh, i dont mind being called a freeloader .. i think that there were some who didnt want ppl who play for free to be called that .. but i think its how a lotuv ppl think so i appreciate them being honest LoL >>my comment about you winning the game.it was sarcasm towards your thinking everyone is stupid if they don't dance how you dance here..<< Well, it really doesnt matter what i think, does it? The point i try to make is that LL allows & encourages ppl to play for free so that the entire burden of supporting SL & making LL execs rich falls on those who do choose to pay to play. I dont think thats fair. My purpose isnt to gloat over getting over, or mock 'suckers' who pay while others dont .. My purpose is to point out the inherent unfairness of LL's business model. If anything, I praise those who pay cuz they make it so that i dont have to. What id really like to see is for ppl to rise up & do something about this unfair situation ~& all the other stuff they dont like about LL~ rather than just complain about it in this forum. >>i put my money in here because i have it to do it..not because i'm sucked in and addicted or trying to make a living..i like it here and like a lot of stuff i can do here...<< i believe you Ceka .. but how many are addicted? I bet lots. I sortuv was myself .. prolly still am .. altho not as bad as before my old puter went down. Not having a puter & not being able to log in2 SL for 10 days taught me that i can actually live w/out SL. I dont want to have to tho .. cuz i like SL too!! :catvery-happy: >>trying to tell me about how bad corps are is like trying to teach a bullfrog to croak..<< what you said about working conditions & how it is where you live was cool .. thanks for sharing!! i didnt figure you were one who needs to hear my criticisms of corporatism .. i know that for many im just preaching to the choir. i just think that ppl who complain about LL need to realize & understand that the problem runs way deeper than just LL management's incompetence .. that the problems are built in2 the economic paradigm we all suffer under ~as you yourself so ably describe~ & that LL is no worse than any other soulless sociopathic corporate wealth vampire ... You dont need to hear this but plenty do .. specially a lotuv merchants & content creators & ppl like that who tend to dominate this forum & who take SL's toy economy seriously & get all bent & hostile over a game that's supposed to be fun .. & IS fun if ppl just play it for entertainment like you say you do >>you'll just end up with sarcasms because of the extremist approach you chose..<< Ok Ceka .. point taken .. i guess youre right .. Thing is tho, that often no1 listens if i dont take an extremist approach. & besides, i only post on this forum when i cant get inworld .. im bored on here. If i can stir up a ltl controversy it makes the day go by faster .. Jeanne sorry for sounding so snippy.. this thread is just edgy..it's like if we don't have something to complain about or don't have any ill will towards LL then we're wrong.. i thought you bringing that part up about winning the game was meant to get my attention.. i just feel like i have had to be on the defensive about the things i notice in sl because of the things i haven't noticed about it because those things are not areas i ever am around.. i only hear things in here and the forums i'm in and the types of places i go to in world.. i feel like i am being made out to be some bad person because i am not lying and saying..yes LL is terrible because of all those things i haven't heard about.. my perspective sucks and damn me for not hanging in the merchants forums and all those other places so i could get me some good ole fashioned Ill will.. i would have thought the left over from the M peroid would have watered it down enough..but i guess not lol sorry i'm rambling and going on.. i shouldn't have gotten so snippy with you..just feel like i have been told i am wrong for not noticing all the bad that others are seeing i guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 >>this thread is just edgy..it's like if we don't have something to complain about or don't have any ill will towards LL then we're wrong..<< I'm often the cause of edginess i think .. I'm sorry .. it's just that my personality is kinduv drawn to edginess .. if the tone isn't a bit edgy the topic often doesn't catch my interest or fails to hold it .. I shouldn't be this way so much in a public forum but I just get SOOoooooo bored sometimes ... >>i feel like i am being made out to be some bad person because i am not lying and saying..yes LL is terrible because of all those things i haven't heard about..<< You certainly don't strike me as being a bad person Ceka. You bring life & fun to the forum! The music & cartoons you post are way fun & you also bring a wisdom & experience w/ SL to the forum that's very valuable. Thanks for being you !!! ~huggzzz~~ ~ <3 I tend to think that LL is pretty terrible but then .. i think thata bout all corporations. Is LL any worse than the average money grubbing greedy corporation? Maybe .. from what I hear. On the other hand tho, LL brings us SL which we all apparently enjoy so they must not be toooooo bad :cattongue: >>i shouldn't have gotten so snippy with you..just feel like i have been told i am wrong for not noticing all the bad that others are seeing i guess..<< oooh, dont worrya bout me .. I dont mind snippiness .. in fact, i prefer it to blandness LOL Youre cool in my book Ceka .. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masami Kuramoto Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 cinda Hoodoo wrote: The trend has always been, those that can pay and are willing to, for services or products, and the free loaders. From an economic perspective, the term "freeloader" is ambiguous because it doesn't say anything about a resident's level of participation in economic activities. A content creator selling tons of prims and spending all his earnings on other people's prims is as much a freeloader as someone who does not buy and sell stuff at all. From Linden Lab's point of view, both are equally "parasitic" because they spend no money on the platform. Successful merchants who cash out more than they spend are actually worse than freeloaders. Their trade surplus must be offset by someone else's trade deficit, otherwise the in-world economy would implode. For the owners of Linden Lab, Second Life is a profitable product as long as the sum of resident spending exceeds the sum of resident earning plus the cost of running the platform. The result of this model is that SL business owners find themselves in competition with Linden Lab, because every dollar that is cashed out decreases Linden Lab's own bottom line. Maybe this explains why Linden Lab has very little incentive to help you become a successful SL merchant. Those who blame their own business failure on freeloaders have not really understood how this platform works. Think of it this way: Every freeloader is one competitor less to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Masami Kuramoto wrote: cinda Hoodoo wrote: The trend has always been, those that can pay and are willing to, for services or products, and the free loaders. From an economic perspective, the term "freeloader" is ambiguous because it doesn't say anything about a resident's level of participation in economic activities. A content creator selling tons of prims and spending all his earnings on other people's prims is as much a freeloader as someone who does not buy and sell stuff at all. From Linden Lab's point of view, both are equally "parasitic" because they spend no money on the platform. Successful merchants who cash out more than they spend are actually worse than freeloaders. Their trade surplus must be offset by someone else's trade deficit, otherwise the in-world economy would implode. For the owners of Linden Lab, Second Life is a profitable product as long as the sum of resident spending exceeds the sum of resident earning plus the cost of running the platform. The result of this model is that SL business owners find themselves in competition with Linden Lab, because every dollar that is cashed out decreases Linden Lab's own bottom line. Maybe this explains why Linden Lab has very little incentive to help you become a successful SL merchant. Those who blame their own business failure on freeloaders have not really understood how this platform works. Think of it this way: Every freeloader is one competitor less to worry about. This is an insightful post Masami. You explain how LL's business model sets up competition between LL & SL business owners, which explains why LL is unsympathetic & unresponsive when it comes to addressing business owners' concerns. Of course they aren't going to attend to the things business owners complain about when doing so might harm their own bottom line. The thing I think you need to realize tho is that it's LL executives & shareholders who are the real parasites, much moreso than SL "freeloaders." Execs & shareholders rake in profit while contributing nothing. The freeloaders freeload with LL's blessing because that's the way they've decided to run their business. There's no use resenting freeloaders when LL allows & encourages the freeloading. Resent LL ~if you want to~ because they're the big parasites & they facilitate small scale parasitism by others. Or better yet, just enjoy SL for what it is & dont worrya bout it .. :catwink: Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda Connolly Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Overreact much? It's a joke. It's fine if you don't find it funny, but no need to write a dissertation just to prove you're the smartest kid in the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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