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Huntress Catteneo

Make V3 more like V1

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I've searched a bit and can't find the answer even though I know it is out there somewhere, so trying here and hoping someone can give me a speedy reply.

A while ago a friend found a site the when through the changes you can make on V3 to make it look etc a lot more like V1, she didn't bookmark the page or anything, but I think she said it was one of Torley's pages (but that could be totally wrong) which I had no luck finding (damn Torley is prolific lol).

I do not need or want comments about what viewer is better that another, or that Firestorm or whatever does the V1 look like I want, so please don't bother, I just want to try and find the place or places if there are other different ones, the describe making V3 like V1.

Thanks in advance, with fingers crossed.

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Actually, V3 IS V1 and V1 is V3 in essence that both are the official supported LL Viewer ( only V1 is no longer in circulation). Your best alternative is to do a search on Third Party Viewers ( see the wiki too on this) and you can Google it.

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no V3 isn't V1 etc etc, yep they are LL viewers, but they are by no means the same, and as I said, I am not interested in looking at other viewers, I was hoping someone had the info I needed, but it looks like I may end up out of luck.

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Hit ctrl-T to bring up tool bar options. this will allow you to put buttons on the bottom window toolbar instead of the side bar. to remove the items from the side bar. drag them off the side bar and close them and restart the viewer. they shouldnt come back on the side...

 

I layed my v3 out like the old viewer. its nice that way. the side bar was annoying

 

If they do not tear off by dragging. right click the tabs and see if any new options. It has been a long time since I removed items from the side bar. so i may have forgotten a step

 

Here is how my viewer is layed out. You can change the skin UIJPG_002.jpg

 

Dont need no stinking TPV :)

You can ad and remove any button you want

You can also edit the collors your self in the xml colors file in the program folder skins/default thats the hard way around but having a commented reference helps

 

The hardest part with v3 is learning where the other menu items are and some renamed. but that was easily worked out in a month

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If you want to know any specifics I would be happy to help.  There are various things that cannot be changed in the official viewer such as recombining the IM and chat tabs, using in-world profiles and changing the way the new toasts work, but some stuff can be made to be more familiar.

You might also like to try the 'Nostalgia Blue' version of the StarLight skin for Viewer 3.  It does give a more familiar feel to Viewer 3, so could be seen as a gentler introduction to it - and has a lot of customisable preferences.

nostalgia blue.png

Note that you will have to move a few buttons around (easy in Viewer 3) and a few other easy changes to make it look exactly like that the first time but then it should stay like that.

It is far from being a replica and I could make more changes to things like the bottom bar and the menu system to V1ify it, but if you want something much closer to Viewer 1 and don't mind using a third-party viewer then Firestorm is probably more suitable.

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So you want V3, but actually you don't want it but have it look like V1. But then you also don't want anything based on V3 that will give you V1 because it's not V3. Looks for me like a flaw in the logic or that you haven't come to a final solution what you actually want.

In the end there are only 2 solutions:

  1. Accept that you won't get a V1 look in V3 without any add-ons or TPVs and get over it - or -
  2. Use any third party viewer or add-on to get V1 look on a V3 based viewer

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stuff i can see you cannot do on v2 and v3

you cannot give firends power edit my stuff i put down

and on v2 and v3 it a pain in ass join partys/groups

v2 and v3 lot slower no off button for Mesh 

use of v2 and v3 a big pain in ass i now newbie on sl i join 2008 now i back but now the ul sucks now

Torley need make a good video on ul on all stuff in it help us old guy and new guys look for stuff old in it i bet you move it all i cannot it or remove it -___-

but stuff do love the hotkey bar the remove and add of ul buttons 

now i need use 2 viewers i use Phoenix Viewer and 3 Viewer  do stuff on sl i love go back to use one

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"you cannot give firends power edit my stuff i put down"

yes you can - from 'Permissions' in their profile.

'and on v2 and v3 it a pain in ass join partys/groups'

this isn't such a pain but it is longer because of the badly designed and unfinished work by LL's Social team.

'v2 and v3 lot slower no off button for Mesh'

the mesh rendering stream is slower for most users - this means that it is unlikely that Viewer 3 will ever run as fast as Viewer 1 does for most.


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Hunter Stern wrote:

Actually, V3 IS V1 and V1 is V3 is essence that both are the official supported LL Viewer ( only V1 is no longer in circulation). Your best alternative is to do a search on Third Party Viewers ( see the wiki too on this) and you can Google it.

V3 is not V1 and V1 is not V3.  They are totally different viewers.

And V1 is not supported by Linden Lab any more (has not been supported for a long time).

See:  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Supported_Viewers

Supported Viewers

Linden Lab currently supports:

 

• Second Life Viewer version 3.3.1 (254524)

• Second Life Viewer version 3.3.0 (251182)

• Second Life Viewer version 3.2.8 (248931)

• Second Life Beta Viewer version 3.3.2 (257717)

 

[unquote]

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Thankyou  Dilbert Dilweq and  Hitomi Tiponi, just the sort of thing I am after.

Ansariel Hiller - No I don't want V3 which is not like V1, but at this point I don't have much choice, so if I can make it look like V1 as much as possible all the better..

As I  said not after 3rd party veiwers.

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The only V3 Based viewer I know of (and I fiddle with most of them as I update features & functions related to scripting in them) is Henri Beauchamps Cool VL Viewer which uses a V1 UI (handles Mesh too) but it's under pinnings are V3.

V1 codebase is the Edsel of viewer code, dead and never to return,  or rather the 1960 Picture Tube TV instead of the 21st centuries LED TV's (sorry digital receiver only).

V3 Viewer UI can be moded to be more friendly and yes, Torley needs to seriously do a good series on customizing the UI.  It in fact uses less screen real estate that V1 UI and there are certain performance tweaks that Linden Labs has not implemented by default.   Like any decent gaming system / platform (and yes, SL is a gaming platform & uses gaming tech to deliver the world to you) decent graphics cards and system are required.  Just look at any other good game out there, be it virtual world, WoW or FIFA 2012.

 

 

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Henri's CoolVL is V1 with V3 backports and - same as Phoenix and Singularity - a walking dead. To be able to use the full features of upcoming pathfinding you will need to use Havok libraries that won't be available to any V1-based viewer because of the licensing.

Oh, and V3 IS the same viewer as V1 - it's the continuation, the evolution of V1. You can easily check that by looking through the code commits in the repository. In fact, lots of the code of V3 is still the same as V1.

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Ansariel Hiller wrote:

Oh, and V3 IS the same viewer as V1 - it's the continuation, the evolution of V1. You can easily check that by looking through the code commits in the repository. In fact, lots of the code of V3 is still the same as V1.

Definitions of the word same

 

adj.

1. Being the very one; identical: "The same boat we rented before."

2. Similar in kind, quality, quantity, or degree.

3. Conforming in every detail: according to the same rules as before.

4. Unchanged in character, condition, etc.: "It's the same town after all these years."

 

adv.

In the same way: "The words sale and sail are pronounced the same."

 

pron.

1. Someone or something identical with another.

2. The same person or thing.

 

 

By these definitions I don't see V3 and V1 being the same.

Anyway, because V3 was not started from blank table (from scratch), it can be said that V3 is the evolution of V1.

But surely they are not the same.  If they were the same then they would be indentical or pretty close to identical.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist commenting, it's my bad habit.  :matte-motes-evil-invert: :smileysurprised:)

 

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Ansariel Hiller wrote:

I'm pretty much sure everyone has understood what I was saying...

/me regrets for being a smart a**.

sEm_blush8.gif  ... sorry ...         sFun_surrender.gif

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V3 would run as fast as V1's used to if people updated their computers. Unfortunately many people can't or won't upgrade which leaves them with a poorly performing SL viewer. And this isn't unique to SL ... If you tried running any current new-release online game on average 2008 hardware it would be a bad experience.

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Well the headaches begun, didn't get underway as quick as I hoped, and I do literally mean headaches.

Initial impressions etc, wow this is sooo slow textures take forever hours later after a few restarts and going to the same places, still slow in that area, so the quicker loaded of previous loaded graphics is apparently doing little. Preferences set pretty much as before, or less than before to try an improve speed (and I do have a high end system btw, so these later viewers are definitely way more memory hogging than they need or should be).

Thanks to information supplied I have the toolbar mostly as I want it down the bottom, would like to add map down there, not sure yet how to do that, but about to try and follow this to figure that out:

Introduction to V3.2

Some of the annoying stuff that I would have spent many frustrating hours trying to change, was mentioned here as unchangeable, so have left that, such as:

recombining the IM and chat tabs and using in-world profiles

Having to go out to a profile is really annoying, especially since it insists I must have cookies enabled etc, yay I so love opening my system up more to threats, and I can look at profiles via dashboard without changing things, so why do I need to if doing it from inworld?

I have group chat open, instead of having to grab every stupid little message from the icons, and yet the stupid little icons are there showing I have new message after new message, any way to stop that?  I also get stuck in the top menu if I change my mind about making a choice, can't escape out so have to choose something.

No being able to combine some things how they were in V1, means it is more cumbersome and takes more screen space having to have more boxes open, as well having to open and close them all the time.

I see no need for the little profile icons next to names, yeah sure look cute, but they are loading and unloading graphics and I would imagine are one of the contributors to slowing the system down, cute vs. faster system?  Sorry faster system thanks, should be able to turn those off.

Plus side, can see mesh so people don't look stupid now as torus and cylinders, as for how worth it is seeing it compared to using older V1, still rather have faster system.

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Well a bit further down the track coping with V3, but still curse it a lot, a fair amount is actually intuitive, but some stuff I could look forever for and not find without the help of others.  There are things I would like to change still, but I either don't know how or they can't be.

The little icons top right corner that tell you IMs are there, or notices etc, much prefer them to be where I want them on the screen, as I miss them all the time there, especially the animation permissions (which I forget go there), so people get upset when I don't accept hugs, or I wait forever to sit on a chair until I finally remember the envelope.

I prefer seeing the online offline messages back on chat as I hate having to open people all the time and I like to know how long ago their online status changed in case I should grovel for missing them or tell them off for not getting in touch after being on so long lol.

Layering with attach is great since so many shops put things on sucky layers.

The forward and back TP location arrows next to the current address are both great and suck, great as in saves you looking you the address to somewhere quite often, off to the shop and back home again yay so easy, move or open the notice etc that minimized up to there but accidentally click damn arrow while at crucial point in Stage Managing, REALLY not good lol.

Soooo slow.  It used to be lag?  What lag?  You have bad lag here, really?  Are you rendered yet?  Rendered now?  Well I know I am not, and I have a reasonably high end system.  Are they trying to get people into sl or not?  Make it only super super graphics and you are seriously chopping your new customer numbers, but I guess look at other decisions and should not really be supprizing.  Like my friends crash more often, unlike some of them I at least get in, others can do 10 tries and finally give up and hope to get in later or leave to next day.

Link/Unlink button in build box great.

I don't get the texture having to be inside the prim thing or it is not on the prim?  What am I missing there, is there a setting to make it go on as normal?

A couple of buggy bits to check/report on Jiri that are driving me nuts - snapshot and sound/voice working when they please, how they please regardless of lag etc.

Overall with moving the buttons where I like etc and mostly intuitive stuff, it is not too bad, still tempted to head back now and then when lag and crash stuff really bad.

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WHEN I FIRST STARTED PLAYING SECOND LIFE

I first started playing Second Life on July 10, 2010.  After my 2nd or 3rd day playing, I found a dance club to hang out in; and some of the other dance club regulars suggested that I use the Phoenix Viewer.  I scoffed at the idea.  I thought that they were just being ignorant, because most people I encounter always think "newer or different is better".  Second Life was created by Linden Labs, and their viewer is available for download on their Second Life website.  I doubted that any 3rd party viewer would be nearly as good as one made by the creators of Second Life.

A FEW MONTHS LATER

I was getting sick of the lag, so I decided to explore other options.  I tried Phoenix, but it looked overwhelmingly complicated. I ended up using Snowglobe for a while, and it was slightly (but barely) faster than Second Life's viewer.

ANOTHER FEW MONTHS LATER

I tried the Phoenix Viewer again because they stopped working on Snowglobe; and I tackled it with renewed interest and vigor.  I learned all the features, and I was impressed.  I really got used to it.  But most importantly, the Phoenix Viewer was way, way, way, way faster than Second Life's viewer.  I felt like extending my middle finger to Linden Labs.  Why is a 3rd party viewer so much better than the SL one?

YEARS LATER

I kept using the Phoenix Viewer, month after month.  Anytime an update would come out, I would update.  I loved the viewer.  You couldn't pay me to go back to using the SL V2 viewer.

V3, MESH, and FIRESTORM

When I heard that V3 and mesh was coming out and that V1 may expire, I became frantic with worry.  I was mad at Linden Labs.  But then they came out with the Linden Realms game, and my friend wanted me to play with her. I couldn't see the mesh portal, so I had to download Firestorm (I figured since Phoenix was sooo much better than SL's V2 that Firestorm would also be better than SL's V3).  There were things about the Firestorm interface that I enjoyed, so after getting used to it, I decided that I would make Firestorm my main viewer.  I couldn't use the mesh-enabled Phoenix Viewer at the time, because it hadn't been released yet.

FIRESTORM vs PHOENIX

I used Firestorm for the last four releases.  So it's been around 4-7 months (or longer), but at least 4 months, that I've been using it.  I really wanted to keep it as my main viewer, but it was noticeably slower than Phoenix.  Even so, I figured that Phoenix was a dead project, and that I had to get used to Firestorm.  So I promised myself that I would report any ideas and bugs to the Phoenix/Firestorm team, and help them make it a better experience for all.  However, it being slower continued to bother me, until the latest 4.1.1 was soooo much slower, I mean way, way, way, way, way slower than Phoenix, that I decided that I had had enough.  If I teleported somewhere new, it would take freaking hours for all the textures to load.  I hated how I had to change group tags to make the gray textures load faster, but even that didn't help that much.  To places that I've already been before, the textures still took forever to rez.  Some linked textures on things like DJ tip boards just refused to load, no matter what I did - refresh texture, whatever.  If I opened the World Map, it took eons for it to load.  Finally, I said, I've had enough.  I would go back to Phoenix and see how different it is.  And it is way, way, way, way faster.  So, I deleted Firestorm.  I'm done with it.  I won't ever go back to it unless I have no other choice and everything that I absolutely need is completely broken.  Ideally, I wish for a Firestorm that is as fast as Phoenix with some of Phoenix's features and designs.  But I don't have the patience to school the programmers on what I believe should be done.  I think the real problem is Linden Labs though.  They are the ones who forced V2 and V3 code on everyone.  I don't care about all these fancy features.  I would rather go back to basic gameplay but with a 20x faster viewer.  I don't think any viewer has or will ever be able to compete with the latest Phoenix Viewer.  V1 ftw.

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This is V3? V1 friendly GUI. V3 unfriendly GUI, anti logic to users. This is development? Demolish logical friendly GUI and replace to anti logic powerfull hard unfriendly GUI. ll programers is totaly stupid or? Thank ll this world rename Complicate life not second life!!!

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I have stuck with V3, and with the few suggested changes I was directed to to make it a little more like V1 in looks a least, I have gotten used to it.  There is still some things I cant find now and then and have to go web hunting or friend bugging to get the answer.  There are still lots of little wizz bang feathers the 3rd party viewers have that LL continue to act like aren't possible to put in or something.

In all of the software world, companies concentrate on adding more and more 'gadgets', Windows is one of the worst for that.  What many of them don't get, isthat many of us don't want more memory and space hogging interfaces, we would be really really happy ti just have FASTER.  Nothing else, just FASTER.  I still adore V1, and if I cannout get into SL as it is having one of its happy times, V1 will get me in.  I know many others that still revert to V1, or use V1 normally, and switch to one of the others briefly if they have to do something that needs the to see mesh.

V1 is still about the fastest and most lag free, as of course it doesn't have the bells and whistles.  I would just love if being able to see mesh was added to V1 and off we go, but we all know that will never happen as we are forced to accept more and more rubbish.

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Huntress Catteneo wrote:

V1 is still about the fastest and most lag free, as of course it doesn't have the bells and whistles.  I would just love if being able to see mesh was added to V1 and off we go, but we all know that will never happen as we are forced to accept more and more rubbish.

I just tested to be absolutely sure: Henri's "Cool VL Viewer" does see Mesh and is very (very) V1. It seems to be Windows and Linux only, so I guess those on Macs are SOL.

I actually find V1 quite unusable at this point. It's not that it's inherently worse than V3 -- they're both really quite awful as UI designs -- but I've grown accustomed to V3's particular flavor of awfulness.

(I must say, it's hard to believe that we used to put up with the whole bottom of the screen taken over by buttons and chatbar. Gawd, it seems such a waste of screen space now--but then, I run V3 with no buttons at all.)

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