Is this allowed on a Mature sim?

[Arkady Arkright]

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Syo Emerald wrote:This means, on a M rated sim, you still have the risk to meet people who haven't verified their age yet.

 

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Then they shouldn't call such sims 'mature', as they're obviously not.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I disagree with you, Ceka. If your sim was unavailable to the public, then I'd agree with you. But as long as anyone can go there, it has to follow the rules for Mature land, which means no public sex activities, etc.. It's nothing to do with attracting people via search.

Search does have a role though. You can do adult activities (sex) behind closed doors on Mature land but, if you advertise those 'behind closed doors' activities in search, through the land's description or through items on the land that show in search, then it would be against the ToS for Mature land.

---

it is unavalible to the public hehehe

you can't get in my sim unless i let you in or give you permission to let people in..

adult has everything to do with search and promotion and hosting to the public..

so does moderate.. private doesn't..

thats why i said they should have a priv rating..

cause sex balls sitting on a sim beach that says moderate rated is not ARable..they would know it wasn't even more if the sim said private rated..

you can't cam in and see people using them if land settings are on either that make avatars invisible..

it would unclog some Ar's in the system i would think..

---

You didn't say that it's unavailable to the public. In that case, you can do exactly what you said you could do on your sim.

Search does play a role, as I said, but it isn't all about search. You can do some things on Mature land as long as it isn't plugged in search. If it's plugged in search, it has to be Adult land. For instance, on publically accessible private island sims, and mainland, you can use sex animations for sex, provided that it's not in the open where it could be easily seen. But plugging those sex activities in search would be against the ToS for that land.

[Phil Deakins]

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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

It seems they aren't listed in search and the group(s) are not open enrollment.  So it's likely the could claim to comply with the TOS.  Sex poseballs on mature land 'in the open' are allowed in at least some situations.  That's why you can have a sex bed store in mature land.  

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They could claim compliance with the ToS, but I don't believe it is. That's assuming that it's unrestricted access, of course.

Sex animations are allowed in the open on Mature land, as you said, but using them for sex activities isn't. You gave sex bed stores as an example. I sell sex beds in my store that's on Mature land, so I took a lot of notice when Adult land came into being. At that time, it was made clear that potential customers can briefly try the sex animations to ascertain whether or not they want to buy, but nobody is permitted to use those sex animations for actual sex. Sex balls for public *sex* use are not allowed on Mature land, whether they are out in the open, as in the OP's case, or behind walls (in a room). It makes no difference whether the place is in search or not.

If publically accessible sex animations, for use in sex activities, were allowed on Mature land, there would be no difference between Mature and Adult land, and no need at all for Adult land. From the OP's post, it sounds like the place he described has publically accessible sex balls for sex use and, if that's so, it's against the ToS for Mature land whether it's in search or not.

[jwenting]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Sigren Panthar wrote:

Well, you could join the Gestapo?

Quite honestly....have you

really

 got nothing better to do than consider yourself one of the moral police?   Let LL deal with any TOS violations: that is what they are paid for, and you are not.  Griefing is going on wildly in many areas, affecting the game enjoyment of many, yet LL - and you - are impotent to stop it.  Worrying about adult pose balls on a mature beach is not going to destroy SL.

If you are sooooo pyschologically damaged by this, and worry that all us poor residents will  plunge into the abyss of debauchery then why not try the hundreds of PG sims....and stay there.

 

---

Adults should be able to go to Mature regions without seeing people having sex in public.  That is why there are adult regions.  If that's YOUR thing go there.  Its easy for the private estate owner to change to an A rating, so there is no excuse for it.  If the area is on the mainland, its clearly not supposed to be there.

I'm not a prude, am age verified, and believe whatever two consenting adults do is ok,  I don't mind nudity or most things in a M region, but I don't expect or want to see people having sex in public unless I go to an adult sim. People may have family in the room in RL that can see their monitors or other legit reasons for not wanting to see it in an M region that have nothing to do with being the "morality police".  LL doesn't police this and relies on people reporting it to enforce the policy.  Personally, I'd AR them and so would  a lot of other people.

---

What I'm worried about is the attitude of people like OP who (and I see that time and again here) seem to deliberately go looking for sims and avatars to report for TOS violations. It's a recurring theme.

They're griefers, people intent on getting others banned. Whether they're the self appointed morality police or get high on causing other people trouble is irrelevant to me, what matters is the end result.

I've run into things that are skirting, or even breaking, the TOS. I won't report any of them unless they're actually breaking the law or actively harassing people (scammers, pedophiles, etc.). If we all did the same the world'd be a much nicer place.

Wouldn't surprise me if the poseballs on that beach weren't sexballs at all, but just hugging and cuddling (if that). Knowing LL tends to ban first, ask questions only when confronted later (if then), OP knows full well he'll get what he wants: a sim in trouble.

[jwenting]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Arkady Arkright wrote:

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Sigren Panthar wrote:

Well, you could join the Gestapo?

 

---

THIS !  Why are there so many nosey-parkering busybodies in SL ? Have they nothing better to do than prodnose whenever they find something slightly not to their taste ?

---

That's a bit unfair. There are plenty of people who like to get involved when they find bots around that don't affect them at all.

Adult land was created so that people wouldn't accidentally come across adult activities on Mature land. And, believe it or not, there are a many people who prefer not to come across it, which can't be faulted. It's not something that's "

slightly not to their taste

". It's something that offends many people, just as it would offend them if they came across it in RL. I'm not one of them, incidentally, but I do know that it offends people, that it's against the ToS, that it's the reason why Adult land was created in the first place, and that such things 

should

be ARed out of existance

 

---

what offends a lot more people is the attitude displayed by OP that it's up to him to decide what offends people and should be allowed... If he's so worried, why not contact the sim owners? No, he has to brag about finding the place in public and get it banned (and the owners too no doubt).

[Phil Deakins]

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jwenting wrote:

what offends a lot more people is the attitude displayed by OP that it's up to him to decide what offends people and should be allowed... If he's so worried, why not contact the sim owners? No, he has to brag about finding the place in public and get it banned (and the owners too no doubt).

---

I honestly don't think that a lot more people are offended by people ARing something, or asking about ARing something, than are offended by accidentally coming across open sex activity where it shouldn't be. I am sure that you are offended by someone asking about it, but you don't constitute a lot of people. I realise that there are some who are so into pixel sex that they want it to be allowed everywhere, without any consideration for other people, but I'm sure there aren't many such people. There appears to be a few in this thread, but that's not many.

I didn't read the OP's post as having an "attitude". I read it as someone coming across, and asking about, something that s/he thought was against the ToS and, if it was, it was a serious controvention. It was so serious a thing that it caused LL to go to the great lengths of creating Adult land and all that that entailed in the switch-over.

I think your "banned" statement about the OP was nothing to do with reality. Do you have the same attitude concerning traffic-bots? They are also not allowed. Do you think they should be left alone as well? Of the two, open sex is by far the worst because it's as offensive to some in SL as it is to many more people in RL, whereas traffic-bots don't "offend" anyone.

[Carn Windlow]

Get real folks. There is very little that can be done in SL that someone does not find offensive.

Self styled police are fine. As long as your on their side. I suppose "live and let live" is out of the question

considering some of the complaints I have seen in these forums. But it is a nice thought.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I disagree with you, Ceka. If your sim was unavailable to the public, then I'd agree with you. But as long as anyone can go there, it has to follow the rules for Mature land, which means no public sex activities, etc.. It's nothing to do with attracting people via search.

Search does have a role though. You can do adult activities (sex) behind closed doors on Mature land but, if you advertise those 'behind closed doors' activities in search, through the land's description or through items on the land that show in search, then it would be against the ToS for Mature land.

---

it is unavalible to the public hehehe

you can't get in my sim unless i let you in or give you permission to let people in..

adult has everything to do with search and promotion and hosting to the public..

so does moderate.. private doesn't..

thats why i said they should have a priv rating..

cause sex balls sitting on a sim beach that says moderate rated is not ARable..they would know it wasn't even more if the sim said private rated..

you can't cam in and see people using them if land settings are on either that make avatars invisible..

it would unclog some Ar's in the system i would think..

---

You didn't say that it's unavailable to the public. In that case, you can do exactly what you said you could do on your sim.

Search does play a role, as I said, but it isn't all about search. You can do some things on Mature land as long as it isn't plugged in search. If it's plugged in search, it has to be Adult land. For instance, on publically accessible private island sims, and mainland, you can use sex animations for sex, provided that it's not in the open where it could be easily seen. But plugging those sex activities in search would be against the ToS for that land.

---

i said "and also there is nobody walking in the next sim seeing anything like sex or whatever"..

as well as that it is my home..that is what i am meaning with private..it's my home.. it's walled off in a sense with 2 sims of water..you can't walk next to it and look in and AR me for anything..the whole thing is my private home..meaning my sim edges and top are walls you can't walk through..

my point was there should be a private rating ..mainly to make things less confusing for people and to slow down on the people outside looking in seeing pose balls and things they think are adult content..when those things can be out there as long as nobody can see someone using them or access them by walking in..

having those  outside open to the public where the public can walk in and access and use them falls under the adult rating..

 

as far as this search thing  hehehe

you are limiting what i said to just search when that's not what i said.,not one time..i mentioned all forms of attracting  and exposing to the public..all public channels..

i didn't just say search only..hehehe

that whole rating system is for commerce and places drawing public..that's what they were made for..those FAQ's were made well after the rating system..

nowhere but general ratings do they ever talk to or about private residents and private homes..

only the FAQ's do..

the FAQ's only cleared up a lot of things for private residents because they couldn't find anything in the ratings that referred to them because moderate rating doesn't cover them..

to stay moderate open to the public we look to the adult ratings to see what we are not supposed to do..moderate sure won't tell you..

to stay general we look to moderate and general to look at what we should and should not do..

moderate they failed on because they didn't do it up like they did general and adult.. lol

i've read them it feels like a thousand times..if you read the ratings ..the FAQ's sound like they are FAQ's to something else lol

nowhere do they touch on anything for private residents in moderate  but to look out for content you might see in moderate areas hehehe

and adult sure doesn't go into it either..they should take what they have in those FAQ's and drop in a private rating  and slide what they wrote under it lol

it would save on a lot of headaches and bullcrap AR's ..

 

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

Alright, I'll use the word "advertise" instead of just search. Sex activities on publically accessible Mature land cannot be advertised, whether the activities are done in the open or behind walls. That's "search" sorted out to, I think, both our satisfactions

The last time I read the FAQ/answers about it, they weren't exactly full of clarity, so I agree with you about that. But I think there's a good reason for it, that covers more than just this particular topic. It's normal for such things to say what you can't do rather than what you can do. It's much easier to do it that way than to try and cover every 'can do' possibility. One of the things you can't do on Mature land is have open sex where people could pass by, whether it's promoted or not. The place that the OP wrote about seems to have that and, if it does, it's against the ToS and should be ARed until it's not doing it.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Alright, I'll use the word "advertise" instead of just search. Sex activities on publically accessible Mature land cannot be advertised, whether the activities are done in the open or behind walls. That's "search" sorted out to, I think, both our satisfactions

The last time I read the FAQ/answers about it, they weren't exactly full of clarity, so I agree with you about that. But I think there's a good reason for it, that covers more than just this particular topic. It's normal for such things to say what you can't do rather than what you can do. It's much easier to do it that way than to try and cover every 'can do' possibility. One of the things you can't do on Mature land is have open sex where people could pass by, whether it's promoted or not. The place that the OP wrote about seems to have that and, if it does, it's against the ToS and should be ARed until it's not doing it.

---

ya i understand that ..i mean we have been putting them under a microscope since they came out..

but if you look at them they are written as if they are referring to only commerce..

private residents since then have non stop been asking what they should rate their private sims as..

along with commerce and other open places..

i blame that on money minded CEO M..

now Rodvik and company steps in and we have these additions that give a better idea of what private land owners should do to stay private if they are going to be doing the nasty  n stuffs hehehe..

basically now what they say in there is.. to use everything in your power to keep it private out of site..

use land settings and walls and invite only or group access invite only to get in there..

when they throw a change in there..it's like walking in and seeing someone just took everything on your desk and threw it up in the air..  lol

let alone they don't even tell ya about it lol

 

 

 

[jwenting]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

---

jwenting wrote:

what offends a lot more people is the attitude displayed by OP that it's up to him to decide what offends people and should be allowed... If he's so worried, why not contact the sim owners? No, he has to brag about finding the place in public and get it banned (and the owners too no doubt).

---

I honestly don't think that a lot more people are offended by people ARing something, or asking about ARing something, than are offended by accidentally coming across open sex activity where it shouldn't be. I am sure that you are offended by someone asking about it, but you don't constitute a lot of people. I realise that there are some who are so into pixel sex that they want it to be allowed everywhere, without any consideration for other people, but I'm sure there aren't many such people. There appears to be a few in this thread, but that's not many.

I didn't read the OP's post as having an "attitude". I read it as someone coming across, and asking about, something that s/he thought was against the ToS and, if it was, it was a serious controvention. It was so serious a thing that it caused LL to go to the great lengths of creating Adult land and all that that entailed in the switch-over.

I think your "banned" statement about the OP was nothing to do with reality. Do you have the same attitude concerning traffic-bots? They are also not allowed. Do you think they should be left alone as well? Of the two, open sex is by far the worst because it's as offensive to some in SL as it is to many more people in RL, whereas traffic-bots don't "offend" anyone.

---

you would be wrong... Bots offend every sim owner who suffers because of them, and every visitor to those sims who has to deal with the increased lag caused by them. Specifically the ones used to cheat in contests by sending in dozens of alts just to vote for someone.

You're projecting your own (IMO perverted or at the very least overly prudish) morality as applying to the entire population base, implying that anyone who isn't offended by some flesh as being a sex crazed pervert.

It's quite possible, and extremely healthy, to leave other people alone. It's a large world out there, don't like what others do in a sim, go somewhere else.

It's people who go around gawking and looking for technical violations and then screaming bloody hell and murder when they find them that are the perverts.

[Syo Emerald]

Am I LL? Go write them a letter that your brain gets confused over the ratings. They could call it funny-place-with-blue-dots-land and it would still have the same rules as it already has.

Maybe this is a better explaination to you: In the real world, their a places a child can't acess, so they are only visited by people who passed a certain ageborder. But that doesn't mean automatically that there is open sex allowed.

On the word itself....I think there is a difference between adult and mature. Like saying to a 17 year old "Hey, you are pretty mature for your age" but still you wouldn't call them an adult. Old enough to see some boobies, but not allowed to see the whole porn movie. (Remember LL allows stripclubs on M rated sims).

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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jwenting wrote:

what offends a lot more people is the attitude displayed by OP that it's up to him to decide what offends people and should be allowed... If he's so worried, why not contact the sim owners? No, he has to brag about finding the place in public and get it banned (and the owners too no doubt).

---

No, its up to the TOS to decide.

No one has any right to get offended at the TOS being upheld.

Don't like it, petition with a thousand jiira's to get the TOS changed.

 

[Arkady Arkright]

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Syo Emerald wrote:Maybe this is a better explaination to you: In the real world, their a places a child can't acess, so they are only visited by people who passed a certain ageborder. But that doesn't mean automatically that there is open sex allowed.

On the word itself....I think there is a difference between adult and mature. Like saying to a 17 year old "Hey, you are pretty mature for your age" but still you wouldn't call them an adult. Old enough to see some boobies, but not allowed to see the whole porn movie. (Remember LL allows stripclubs on M rated sims).

---

Feel better for being insulting. do we ?

I hate to disillusion you, but this isn't the real world - and 'Mature' has a dictionary definiton, are you going to tell OED or Websters they've got it all wrong because LL got confused ?

 

 

[Irene Muni]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

---

jwenting wrote:

what offends a lot more people is the attitude displayed by OP that it's up to him to decide what offends people and should be allowed... If he's so worried, why not contact the sim owners? No, he has to brag about finding the place in public and get it banned (and the owners too no doubt).

---

No, its up to the TOS to decide.

No one has any right to get offended at the TOS being upheld.

Don't like it, petition with a thousand jiira's to get the TOS changed.

 

---

Agree. This is the central point. I do not like some aspects of the TOS and RL laws. But that does not allow me to violate the law. I can and I must work to change laws, but I can not argue that I disagree with the law for not complying with these laws (I leave aside the broader debate on civil disobedience, that is not applicable in this case).

[Phil Deakins]

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jwenting wrote:

you would be wrong... Bots offend every sim owner who suffers because of them, and every visitor to those sims who has to deal with the increased lag caused by them. Specifically the ones used to cheat in contests by sending in dozens of alts just to vote for someone.

You're projecting your own (IMO perverted or at the very least overly prudish) morality as applying to the entire population base, implying that anyone who isn't offended by some flesh as being a sex crazed pervert.

It's quite possible, and extremely healthy, to leave other people alone. It's a large world out there, don't like what others do in a sim, go somewhere else.

It's people who go around gawking and looking for technical violations and then screaming bloody hell and murder when they find them that are the perverts.

---

No I'm not wrong. Traffic bots (which is what I said - not all bots) never have offended anyone. They have certainly annoyed many people but that's nothing to do with being "offended". If you disagree, check the dictionary.

So people who prefer that sex acts are not done out in the open in public are perverted in your opinion. That speaks volumes about you.

As you said, it's perfectly healthy to leave other people alone - griefers, traffic-bot runners, spammers, hackers who steal your money, etc. - perfectly healthy. It doesn't mean it's right though.

LL created adult land, precisely so that sex acts were not done where they weren't expected. It doesn't matter whether or not you think that sex acts should be allowed anywhere and everywhere (again, it speaks about you), and people should mind their own business. What matters is what LL does and doesn't allow. You (and the rest of us) don't get a choice.

You may be against users ARing ToS violations - it certainly sounds like you are - but, to keep SL as free as possible from such things as griefers, thieves, etc. users have to AR the violations because LL doesn't have the staff to watch everywhere. And on the whole, users are happy with that situation. My guess is that you are happy with it too. But you can't pick and choose what should be ARed, except for yourself. As long as you think that one or more violations should be ARed, you have no grounds for complaint, or objection, if other people choose to AR violations that you would prefer were left alone. And if you don't think any violations should be ARed, you still have no grounds for complaint or objection that other people AR ToS violations, because they are violations of the ToS which are detrimental to SL, and people's enjoyment of SL.

[Phil Deakins]

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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

There's a lot that's unclear from the OPs post.  If the access to the land is set to group only & the 'avatars can not be seen by those outside' mode is on then sex balls that were not for sex use may become available for sex use. 

The following language indicates to me that including mature land in search that contains 'adult content or conduct' is an important issue.

Linden Lab will .... rely on abuse reports that identify adult content or conduct that is promoted or advertised publicly. Where adult content or conduct on a region

is publicly advertised or promoted

, that region must be designated as Adult (or such content must be removed). We will re-designate such regions if adult content is not removed.

---

If the land of the OP is only accessible by the group, and the group isn't open enrolment, and it's activities can't be seen from the outside, and the sex activities aren't advertised, then I would say that the sex balls are fine. We agree on that.

In my posts, I've accepted the part of the FAQ/ToS (wherever it came from) that you quoted too. Sex acts are allowed on Mature land, provided that it isn't advertised. I believe that other parts make it clear that sex acts are only allowed on Mature for private use, which could be group only, of course, and not anywhere where it can be easily seen by passers-by, such as in the open without any setting to prevent it.

As you said, there is a lot that's unclear from the OP's post, or a lot that's left out of it. But if that place is as s/he described it, without anything relevant missing, then it's against the ToS and should be ARed until it's clean.

[Phil Deakins]

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Arkady Arkright wrote:

I hate to disillusion you, but this isn't the real world - and 'Mature' has a dictionary definiton, are you going to tell OED or Websters they've got it all wrong because LL got confused ? 

---

It doesn't matter what the dictionary definition of 'mature' is. The only thing that matters here is what LL allows, and does not allow, on Mature rated land.

Incidentally, this is the real world as far as rules (ToS) are concerned.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Arkady Arkright wrote:

I hate to disillusion you, but this isn't the real world - and 'Mature' has a dictionary definiton, are you going to tell OED or Websters they've got it all wrong because LL got confused ? 

---

It doesn't matter what the dictionary definition of 'mature' is. The only thing that matters here is what LL allows, and does not allow, on Mature rated land.

Incidentally, this

is

the real world as far as rules (ToS) are concerned.

---

plus they don't even use mature anymore hehehe

it's moderate..it would be a moderate definition they would need to be looking up..

 i get caught on that one so many times myself because i am used to it being mature before  hehehe

 

[Phil Deakins]

I still think of it as Mature and I find it difficult to bring the newer word (Moderate) to mind when I need it, even though I've been using LL's V3 for some weeks now..

[Melita Magic]

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Carn Windlow wrote:

Get real folks. There is very little that can be done in SL that

someone

does not find offensive.

Self styled police are fine. As long as your on their side. I suppose "live and let live" is out of the question

considering some of the complaints I have seen in these forums. But it is a nice thought.

---

You are not living and letting live. Some people are more comfortable in a regulated environment. You are scolding people who want to see the rules of that environment be upheld or regulated. That is your right too, but it is not living and letting live.

Living and letting live is ignoring what you dislike. 

To the topic starter: You say the land was claimed in 2006. What does claimed mean? If the land is not really being run by someone any more, it should be cleared by Linden Lab. That still does happen. I found that out myself when I was trying to buy some properties and no one ever answered. Turned out they had left Linden Lab long before, but their stuff and land was still as they left it. Put in a ticket and find out. Let the Lab sort it out.

Second Life isn't about anarchy, some people want it to be, but it is not. It is a privately held company with rules.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Rux Anatra]

Depends...A SIM can have a Public area and private a area.For example half public and half rented. On a private area u can do what u like ....)So if u come on My sim  and and than u explore and end up in my house or garden  whateveru might  see mypixel KITTY KAT:))) i like breedables.))))...u might like it...u might pet it:)))BUT Lets  Save the Planet:)))