Jump to content

How do you deal with Second Life?


Guest
 Share

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 4333 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Keli Kyrie wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Some time ago Keli Kyrie wrote (emphasis hers):

I KNOW MOST WON'T LIKE THIS
... 
but we need trolls... just like we need Lurkers, Helpers, and Goofballs.
 No one is more important than anyone else. If everyone was a Helper how boring would that be? To me it was all the Wild and Diverse Personalities that made the old GD so great and this party is a place for all of them to come together in one place.

And now Keli Kyrie writes (emphasis mine):

Hi Cali,

  
I am not saying I condone trolls
or bullies what I am questioning is how we react to people that see things differently from the way we do. The fact is some people see SL as a game and treat “the characters” in it as a game. Do we let these people freak us out on a daily basis, do we let them “ruin” our SL just because they see things differently then the rest of us? If you go to the stove once and grab the cast iron skillet and get burned that is one thing, but if you do it day after day... Come on grab a pot holder, make sure the stove is off, adapt to the situation. Even if someone carries the skillet into your room and says it is safe don't trust it.... those skillets can stay hot for a long time. Test it. We don't have to keep getting hurt over and over again. If you are going to handle bees wear thick gloves don't go in there with your heart on your sleeve.

Keli, before I read this as self contradiction, can you explain it?

And why should we expect the victims of bullies to grow thick skins, yet not hold the bullies accountable for their actions? It seems to me you are being hypocritcal.

Okay so a bully writes on a forum your singing sucks. What to you do? How do you punish them? Do you cry about it and attack them back? Or do you just roll with the punches and let those bullies make you a millionaire? Nearly 32,000,000 hits on youtube who is laughing at the bullies now. I am saying you can't execute people just because you don't like what the write but you can choose how you react.

 

Even Katy Perry is her friend now because she didn't let the bullies get her down.
Life is more about how you react to situations then what happens to you.


I'm going to stand firm here, Keli. I asked for an explanation for your apparent self contradiction and I didn't get it. I am not arguing against helping people to grow thicker skins. I want to know what your argument is for our needing trolls and/or bullies.

If you don't wish to engage me further on this, say so. I am getting tired of what appears to me to be either over arching pre-suppositions on your part (I have never suggested we execute anybody), or your inability to see any perspective but your own in the middle of arguing that we should welcome everybody's perspective.

Because I believe every Human Being is of great value and should not be tossed aside like a piece of garbage because they do something other people don't like. I have done things in my life deserving of being thrown out like a piece of garbage but someone was there to help me even when I was at my worst. He told me I was of great value and was a beautiful person even though I was living a life I am now ashamed of. The only thing this person asked me to do in return for his help (which kept me out of jail) was that when I see other people at their worst I show them the same mercy I was shown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 188
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Maddy ( I want to know what your argument is for our needing trolls and/or bullies.) for the same reason we need cancer, the flu, ALS and all the other diseases. 

I doubt she has an answer, but it sure as hell isn't for balance or the betterment of humankind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to stay out of this, but feel compelled to reply.  As an adult I have the right and responsibility to choose whom I associate with.  If someone harasses me to the point that my SL existence is no longer inviting, I will mute them.  If a person is already my friend, and their actions indicate they find humor or acceptance in the harassment of others, I have the choice to remove that one from my friends list, just like they have the choice to behave in that manner.  I do not have to accept it.  Nor will I. 

 I won't tell anyone what they can or can not do.  That is entirely up to that individual, however, I can set my standards out there and say this:  "If you actively agree with or condone bullying, griefing, or harassment in any form, then you will not be on my friends list."  That is entirely my decision and theirs.  If someone dislikes my stance on that, they probably don't want to be my friend anyway. 

By the way, actively agreeing means giving support for some action.  Condone means: To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure.  (This does not mean that you have to speak out when you see something like this being done, but it means that if you indicate that you find humor or enjoyment in the act, I don't' want to be around you)

It is up to me how I will react to negativity.  I can't however control how it initially makes me feel.  The control is in when, if, and how I address it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


DQ Darwin wrote:

Maddy (
 I want to know what your argument is for our needing trolls and/or bullies.) for the same reason we need cancer, the flu, ALS and all the other diseases. 

I doubt she has an answer, but it sure as hell isn't for balance or the betterment of humankind.

I'm not doubting that Keli has an answer, I just want to hear it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because I believe every Human Being is of great value and should not be tossed aside like a piece of garbage
because they do something other people don't like. I have done things in my life deserving of being thrown out like a piece of garbage but someone was there to help me even when I was at my worst. He told me I was of great value and was a beautiful person even though I was living a life I am now ashamed of. The only thing this person asked me to do in return for his help (which kept me out of jail) was that when I see other people at their worst I show them the same mercy I was shown.

I agree Keli, every human is of great value, however, when they treat others like garbage, they lose my respect .  When someone is treating someone else with contempt the worst thing one could do is stroke their ego and tell them how wonderful they are.  It would be far better to gently point out that what they are doing is destructive.  That is just my opinion.  It falls back to choice again.  They can choose to accept it or ignore it. 

 

I have the choice to keep destructive people out of my life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


JeanneAnne wrote:

The newbie enters the game & must rather quickly learn how SL works.

Jeanne

The thing for me when I started SL and one of the things that perked my interest was that what I had read about it did not = game.  (And yes, I know thee are variations on how people utilize the word.) Though I didn't grasp all the intricacies of what I was signing up to enter a virtual world and social platform.  I was not looking for a one party shooter.  At least for me I never refer to SL as a  game but always as a Virtual World.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:


Cali Souther wrote:

 

Keli Kyrie wrote:

 

I respect Real Lifers for their courage in mixing their Real Lifes with there Second Lives, that is a really hard thing to do, but it is not for everyone. I mean do you really want your mom or your boss to know what you do in here? Some people are in SL to have fun, to game, maybe even to test social limits and push buttons. If we can look at things from the right angle I think we can learn how to react to each other without blowing a gasket.

 

And later…

The point of this post is how you react to people that are different then you. There are people in this world of ours that like to test limits, push buttons, play games, even create their own little social experiments to see how people will react. Should all of Second Life look like Disneyland? Where is the sense of adventure, seeking out new worlds, new people, new ideas? If we can not learn how to react to each other in the safety of this virtual world how will we ever be able to in RL?

 

I may have missed,  or chose to glaze over some of the intent of this post – which may or may not include things that are none of my business.  However,  I must say that your example of having your mom or boss know what you do here is a bit extreme.  My mother is passed,  and my boss could care less.  That does not mean, I do not mix my SL and RL. 

Treating people with respect vs. going out of your way to taunt and irritate (or simply be rude) are two very different things.  I do not condone trolls or bullies of any kind, nor do I feel that such behavior falls into “freedom of expression”.  I think it’s mean, and it hurts people.  If someone wants to push buttons,  they should find a willing participant,  not someone who is vulnerable, and often unable to defend themselves.

I left this forum for a while, because there was way too much trolling going on – and it gets old fast, boring, irritating, not fun!  I came back, in hopes of finding some improvement in that area. 

I cannot leave my feelings aside when I sign into SL,  and pretend that I am some
thing
 that does not feels.  So,  if I am a furry character or a human character, or a cat, or a mouse, or a horse, or a dragon …. I still want to be treated with dignity and respect.  :-)

 

 

Hi Cali,

   I am not saying I condone trolls or bullies what I am questioning is
how we react to people that see things differently from the way we do
. The fact is some people see SL as a game and treat “the characters” in it as a game. Do we let these people freak us out on a daily basis, do we let them “ruin” our SL just because they see things differently then the rest of us? If you go to the stove once and grab the cast iron skillet and get burned that is one thing, but if you do it day after day... Come on grab a pot holder, make sure the stove is off, adapt to the situation. Even if someone carries the skillet into your room and says it is safe don't trust it.... those skillets can stay hot for a long time. Test it. We don't have to keep getting hurt over and over again. If you are going to handle bees wear thick gloves don't go in there with your heart on your sleeve.

Examples aside,  if I just answered that question - then -  As long as people treat me with respect,  I don't have a problem with how they choose to live their second life. 

I am pretty much the Queen of Live & Let Live :-) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


JeanneAnne wrote:


Charolotte Caxton wrote:

Lol, isn't Jesus the son of the guy that is going to burn people's souls in all of eternity for not being on His side?

btw, I love Jesus

You know what they say: "Power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely." When you're God Almighty you don't have to answer to anyone & so are free to be as mean as you feel like being.

Jeanne

My favorite all time misquote!

I've cited the full quotation in other threads before but this time I'll leave it for others to look it up.

If you don't know, the accurate quote and in it's context is referring to the concept that "the King (or ruler) is not above the law."

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Perrie Juran wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

The newbie enters the game & must rather quickly learn how SL works.

Jeanne

The thing for me when I started SL and one of the things that perked my interest was that what I had read about it did not = game.  (And yes, I know thee are variations on how people utilize the word.) Though I didn't grasp all the intricacies of what I was signing up to enter a virtual world and social platform.  I was not looking for a one party shooter.  At least for me I never refer to SL as a  game but always as a Virtual World.

Yeah Perrie, seems like most ppl see SL about as you do. Some become quite adamant about the game vs virtual world issue. I have no qualms about calling SL a game because I can tolerate a broad, open ended definition of 'game' and because SL is what it is, regardless of what ppl call it. For those whose definition of 'game' includes goals & defined rules, SL is probably better regarded as being a gaming platform, virtual world or whatever.

When I first started SL I knew nothing about it & therefore had no expectations of it. Viewer 2 didnt work well for me & the newbie place I wound up at was deserted & boring. Then I discovered that I could fly ... & the rest is history! :womanvery-happy:

Jeanne

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Cali Souther wrote:

Examples aside,  if I just answered that question - then -  As long as people treat me with respect,  I don't have a problem with how they choose to live their second life. 

I am pretty much the Queen of Live & Let Live :-) 

I require respect to be shown to more than just me. It would be hard to explain to my friends why I bring people into their midst who do not respect them... so I don't. (Well, if I do, would ya tell me?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Perrie Juran wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:


Charolotte Caxton wrote:

Lol, isn't Jesus the son of the guy that is going to burn people's souls in all of eternity for not being on His side?

btw, I love Jesus

You know what they say: "Power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely." When you're God Almighty you don't have to answer to anyone & so are free to be as mean as you feel like being.

Jeanne

My favorite all time misquote!

I've cited the full quotation in other threads before but this time I'll leave it for others to look it up.

If you don't know, the accurate quote and in it's context is referring to the concept that "the King (or ruler) is not above the law."

Depends on whether we're quoting John Adams or Lord Acton .. I guess ..

Jeanne

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:

Because I believe every Human Being is of great value and should not be tossed aside like a piece of garbage because they do something other people don't like. I have done things in my life deserving of being thrown out like a piece of garbage but someone was there to help me even when I was at my worst. He told me I was of great value and was a beautiful person even though I was living a life I am now ashamed of. The only thing this person asked me to do in return for his help (which kept me out of jail) was that when I see other people at their worst I show them the same mercy I was shown.


Another overarching pre-supposition. Who's advocating throwing anyone away like a piece of garbage? And again, I'm seeing self contradiction. You can't say that nobody should be tossed aside like garbage, then say you deserved to be.

I don't believe the world needs trolls and bullies. We have them, we deal with them as best we can, but we don't need them. Would you lobby for the creation of mean people if we found we didn't have any?

Showing mercy is not the same as showing support. Supporting bullies shows mercy for no one.

And I am frustrated by your statement that you make no claim as to what's right or wrong, then do just that. Let me give you some examples. I'll put your quotes in italics and follow with my comments...

"Some people think whatever is true in Real Life should be true in SL. It is true you can see SL as an extension of RL but I think you will take all the fun out of it."

First, I think there are only a very few people who think that whatever is true in RL should be true in SL, so that's an extreme case. "Seeing SL as an extension of RL takes all the fun out of it" is your perception and cannot not be used as the basis for an argument in which all perspectives are to be accepted. I'll admit to not knowing whether you mean that if I take SL seriously, it's no longer fun for you, in which case you are admitting to being controlled by me (while elsewhere claiming that shouldn't be), or if you mean that taking SL seriously takes the fun out of it for you, in which case I don't have to take you seriously either, do I?

"There are people in this world of ours that like to test limits, push buttons, play games, even create their own little social experiments to see how people will react. Should all of Second Life look likeDisneyland? Where is the sense of adventure, seeking out new worlds, new people, new ideas? If we can not learn how to react to each other in the safety of this virtual world how will we ever be able to in RL?"

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this, but again it is only your perception that one cannot seek out new worlds, people and ideas unless someone tests your limits, pushes your buttons, plays games with you and treats you as a subject in an experiment. And once again, you cannot expect anyone else to adopt your perspective.

Sadly, this sounds like the justification my neighbor gave for the abuse she suffered at the hands of her alcoholic husband. In those dark days, it did not occur to her that she did not have to tolerate that kind of behavior or worse yet, need it.

And once again, if you are not treating SL as an extension of RL (as you stated that would take all the fun out of it for you) then is your avatar deserving of mercy at all? As most of the grief I've encountered here seems to come from people who argue that they are playing roles, haven't they abrogated any claim to mercy or compassion? Surely you don't expect me to treat a cardboard cutout as I would a human? Or are you advocating that some SL residents can play the game by their rules while requiring the rest of us to play by ours? Although I think that happens, it hardly seems fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Lillie Woodells wrote:

  When someone is treating someone else with contempt the worst thing one could do is stroke their ego and tell them how wonderful they are.  It would be far better to gently point out that what they are doing is destructive. 

 

I totally agree with this.  Bad behavior is bad behavior, regardless of the situation.  If you really want to make a positive difference,  you must stand up for what is right – even if you choose to continue your association. IF you believe that ANY behavior is acceptable, because this is Second Life,  you choose to disregard the human being that is behind every avatar, regardless of how that av "looks".

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Lillie Woodells wrote:

I have the choice to keep destructive people out of my life.

Would you consider claiming a person is a pedophile, when they're not, constructive?

Obviously, you only take into account a persons destructiveness when it's aimed at you... if it's aimed at someone you don't like, then that's just fine.  I've seen a lot of people treating a lot of people like garbage lately... you and your friends are not immune to creating the same sort of negativity that you accuse these so called trolls and bullies of creating.

Which leads me to the point I want to make in response to the OP... one man's troll might very well be another man's hero.  It's all just a matter of perspective.

Anyone that claims that their's is the only perspective of what's good and what's bad, is purposefully not seeing the whole picture.  If my perception is that someone is having a negative effect on my existence, then I will do what I have to do to make sure they no longer affect me that way (which I have recently done with great success).

What I won't do is go out of my way to aggravate the situation by accusing anyone and everyone that has any sort of relationship with said individuals of being just as bad as they are... that would be disingenuous.  I refuse to attribute my dislike of a person to the people that are accepting enough to find the good in someone that I was too close minded to see.

...Dres

Link to comment
Share on other sites


DQ Darwin wrote:

hi Storm:)

The 'gang' all write about the TOS, but it is condoned when you violate the rules.  That's ok with me, because I am not Storm.

I am your puppet.  We both know that you're not permitted in public unsupervised. 

Like one other poster wrote, I didn't want to be here, but I figured I would join the 'gang' bang with my pals.  I think we should tone it down a little because our animosities are really showing through in our words.  How pathetic can we be.  I know, as your puppet, I'm pathetic, but the others... tsk tsk.  What hypocrites we have become. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Cali Souther wrote:

Examples aside,  if I just answered that question - then -  As long as people treat me with respect,  I don't have a problem with how they choose to live their second life. 

I am pretty much the Queen of Live & Let Live :-) 

I require respect to be shown to more than just me. It would be hard to explain to my friends why I bring people into their midst who do not respect them... so I don't. (Well, if I do, would ya tell me?)

Maddy, I agree - and being a person that tries to stay neutral can be tricky.  Sometimes,  I have to stop and really look at the situation,  and realize that - as I said (after the reply above) some behavior is simply bad behavior ~ regardless of the situation.

My avoidance only goes so far,  and I do stand up for my beliefs and for my friends.  However,  I also try to stay out of things which have a history,  and go way beyond my involvement. 

It is very much in my nature to let things go - so I hope to find an acceptable balance of the two, without alienating my friends in the process.  In the end,  I can only be who I am.  :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Lillie Woodells wrote:

I have the choice to keep destructive people out of my life.

Would you consider claiming a person is a pedophile, when they're not, constructive?

...Dres

Why Dresden, you must be referring to Gypsy and his sick opinions on the feeds and twitter.  He is derranged, but we accept him because he hates our enemies.  Gypsy is our friend and he can do no wrong.  We are hypocrites, didn't you know?   

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Lillie Woodells wrote:

I have the choice to keep destructive people out of my life.

Would you consider claiming a person is a pedophile, when they're not, constructive?

Obviously, you only take into account a persons destructiveness when it's aimed at you... if it's aimed at someone you don't like, then that's just fine.  I've seen a lot of people treating a lot of people like garbage lately... you and your friends are not immune to creating the same sort of negativity that you accuse these so called trolls and bullies of creating.

Which leads me to the point I want to make in response to the OP... one man's troll might very well be another man's hero.  It's all just a matter of perspective.

Anyone that claims that their's is the only perspective of what's good and what's bad, is purposefully not seeing the whole picture.  If my perception is that someone is having a negative effect on my existence, then I will do what I have to do to make sure they no longer affect me that way (which I have recently done with great success).

What I won't do is go out of my way to aggravate the situation by accusing anyone and everyone that has any sort of relationship with said individuals of being just as bad as they are... that would be disingenuous.  I refuse to attribute my dislike of a person to the people that are accepting enough to find the good in someone that I was too close minded to see.

...Dres

You missed when I said this: 

"By the way, actively agreeing means giving support for some action.  Condone means: To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure.  (This does not mean that you have to speak out when you see something like this being done, but it means that if you indicate that you find humor or enjoyment in the act, I don't' want to be around you)"

What I refused to tolerate is people who love, support, or condone offensive, hurtful, and abusive words or acts to others.  I know the incident of which you refer, and which several of your friends continually refer to. I was not home when those words were written and they were gone before I got home.  I never saw them, I never agreed with them, I never loved them. 

You keep missing the point of what I've said.  But you're damn right that I don't hhave to accept abusivness aimed at me.  Why should I?  Someone has their feathers fluffed because I defriended them for loving a viscious and disgusting post that was aimed at someone else.. not at me.  If I had loved the post you brought up, I'd not have been surprised if someone had defriended me.  But I did not.  You have no idea what I said or did not say to that person behind closed doors.  It's none of your business anyway.  But I have not openly supported vindictive or abusive words or deeds to anyone.

 

This post was made asking the question how we deal with people like that inworld.  I answered. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should check this out it's up your alley :) meh

 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Being-A-Good-SL-Citizen/m-p/1539739#M65203


BabyDeeQ wrote:


DQ Darwin wrote:

hi Storm:)

The 'gang' all write about the TOS, but it is condoned when you violate the rules.  That's ok with me, because I am not Storm.

I am your puppet.  We both know that you're not permitted in public unsupervised. 

Like one other poster wrote, I didn't want to be here, but I figured I would join the 'gang' bang with my pals.  I think we should tone it down a little because our animosities are really showing through in our words.  How pathetic can we be.  I know, as your puppet, I'm pathetic, but the others... tsk tsk.  What hypocrites we have become. 



Link to comment
Share on other sites


Lillie Woodells wrote:

 

This post was made asking the question how we deal with people like that inworld.  I answered. 

No it wasn't. You know it and I know it.  We spoke about it in private.  

ps are you singing for us tonight, I can't wait.  All us hypocrites together at one show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 4333 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...