Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest

How do you deal with Second Life?

Recommended Posts


Dillon Levenque wrote:

Actively Dislike: No, Might, No, Yes (I was gonna say 'I wouldn't mind' but I have to be honest and the honest answer is 'Yes').

 

 

I really like the term "actively dislike vs hate" ...  hate is bad for the soul. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:
I respect Real Lifers for their courage in mixing their Real Lifes with there Second Lives, that is a really hard thing to do, but it is not for everyone. I mean do you really want your mom or your boss to know what you do in here? Some people are in SL to have fun, to game, maybe even to test social limits and push buttons. If we can look at things from the right angle I think we can learn how to react to each other without blowing a gasket.


In your OP you asked "how do you deal with the Real Lifers that want to set rules for how you are to live your Second Life..." Your answer to my post gives me the idea that I might have misunderstood whom you see as Real Lifers.

For me Real Lifers like these are persons who begin a conversation with the age/sex/location questions and expect me to tell them the story of my RL and also to use voice/cam, because if I didn't I certainly had something to hide.

This is something different from people who just act the same way in SL and RL and are willing to share information about their RL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thank you and yes, Hate is bad for the soul. It may seem like I'm splitting hairs with that term but really I'm not. It means "I don't like seeing X around, or hearing about X, or God forbid having to actually speak to X". I HATE X means I'd kill X's children while X watched just for the pleasure of seeing X suffer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:


Tari Landar wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Tari, while I'm in general agreement with the idea that we can walk away from unpleasant people and their behavior, that doesn't always ensure happiness. I have watched some of my friends endure the aggravation of unpleasant characters here in the forums and feeds. They are, to varying degrees, able to weather the abuse by ignoring it. But, to the extent they cannot, my enjoyment of SL is diminished by their unhappiness.

So it's not quite true that no one can ruin your experience unless you let them. While we can try to make the best of a situation, as long as we have empathy and friends, our happiness will be affected by others. For this reason, I do not advocate inclusiveness to the point of amorality.

Sadly, it is sometimes necessary to walk away from people we like to avoid people we don't.

I disagree entirely. Absolutely no other person can control your emotions, or your reactions, no matter what. It is entirely possible to have some of the worst things said, done, whatever, and still be able to walk away, head held high because you didn't allow that action or those words, get you down. Saying that's not possible is basically saying you have no free will. I don't believe people lack free will. It's a conscious choice to
let
what others say and do, affect you(negatively or positively). So you can always make the choice to allow things to only affect you in a positive way, and leave the rest behind, if you want to.Hard? Sure it is, at times. Impossible? Absolutely not.

Although I never did say ignoring that which you dislike will ensure happiness, I think there's much more to happiness than just that, lol. I can guarantee that making different choices when it comes to how you will
deal
will offer up a different outcome. If we let everything others say and do, affect us negatively all of the time, we'd be a very unhappy species-generally speaking. My opinion on that matter doesn't change simply because this is sl.

This is the same thing I tell others who have dealt with people who truly try their hardest to bring others down. Sometimes those people are successful, but it's only that way because their intended audience allows them to do that. I lost a friend a couple years ago to one such person. Her inability to realize that this person couldn't possibly ruin her life, if she didn't allow it, ended up being her literal demise in the end. I miss her terribly, and of course I don't support the way this man treated her, nor do I blame her or anything like that. But she
could
have walked away. She
could
have done a lot of things to change the outcome. It was her choice not to, and in the end it was her choice to deal with it in such a permanent way. Was I happy she was so miserable? Of course not. Did I let her unhappiness ruin my sl? Of course not. I can be sad, upset even, at what's happening to another and still not consider my sl ruined, lol. To say otherwise would mean she had complete control over me. That doesn't make a lick of sense.

I would like to think that had I, and others, not been there from the word go, trying to help her realize she could just walk away from it, things would have ended even sooner. Our positive attitudes, had just as much of an effect on her, as her negative one had on us. Positivity should always win out, in the end. I find it tragic when it doesn't, and unfortunately that happens way too often. You
can
counteract the negative with a positive, you just have to put forth the effort to do so. We're all human though and we are often lead by emotion, which can be both a positive and negative thing. I still see no reason to give up our free will simply because others are choosing to utilize theirs with bad intentions.

I like what you said here very much I wish I could have been able to explain these concepts as well as you have laid them out. It reminds me of lessons I learned reading this book:

Please. What you're talking about would only apply if the person with "free will" had a perfect childhood, a perfect adulthood, spent a few years in talk therapy, had attained cosmic consciousness, and even then they'd probably still get upset if someone pooped on them. All of us get our feathers ruffled...and, your avatar bouncing around gives me a headache.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Cali Souther wrote:

 

Keli Kyrie wrote:

 

I respect Real Lifers for their courage in mixing their Real Lifes with there Second Lives, that is a really hard thing to do, but it is not for everyone. I mean do you really want your mom or your boss to know what you do in here? Some people are in SL to have fun, to game, maybe even to test social limits and push buttons. If we can look at things from the right angle I think we can learn how to react to each other without blowing a gasket.

 

And later…

The point of this post is how you react to people that are different then you. There are people in this world of ours that like to test limits, push buttons, play games, even create their own little social experiments to see how people will react. Should all of Second Life look like Disneyland? Where is the sense of adventure, seeking out new worlds, new people, new ideas? If we can not learn how to react to each other in the safety of this virtual world how will we ever be able to in RL?

 

I may have missed,  or chose to glaze over some of the intent of this post – which may or may not include things that are none of my business.  However,  I must say that your example of having your mom or boss know what you do here is a bit extreme.  My mother is passed,  and my boss could care less.  That does not mean, I do not mix my SL and RL. 

Treating people with respect vs. going out of your way to taunt and irritate (or simply be rude) are two very different things.  I do not condone trolls or bullies of any kind, nor do I feel that such behavior falls into “freedom of expression”.  I think it’s mean, and it hurts people.  If someone wants to push buttons,  they should find a willing participant,  not someone who is vulnerable, and often unable to defend themselves.

I left this forum for a while, because there was way too much trolling going on – and it gets old fast, boring, irritating, not fun!  I came back, in hopes of finding some improvement in that area. 

I cannot leave my feelings aside when I sign into SL,  and pretend that I am some
thing
 that does not feels.  So,  if I am a furry character or a human character, or a cat, or a mouse, or a horse, or a dragon …. I still want to be treated with dignity and respect.  :-)

 

 

Hi Cali,

   I am not saying I condone trolls or bullies what I am questioning is how we react to people that see things differently from the way we do. The fact is some people see SL as a game and treat “the characters” in it as a game. Do we let these people freak us out on a daily basis, do we let them “ruin” our SL just because they see things differently then the rest of us? If you go to the stove once and grab the cast iron skillet and get burned that is one thing, but if you do it day after day... Come on grab a pot holder, make sure the stove is off, adapt to the situation. Even if someone carries the skillet into your room and says it is safe don't trust it.... those skillets can stay hot for a long time. Test it. We don't have to keep getting hurt over and over again. If you are going to handle bees wear thick gloves don't go in there with your heart on your sleeve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Faye Feldragonne wrote:


Keli Kyrie wrote:

Some people think whatever is true in Real Life should be true in SL. It is true you can see SL as an extension of RL but I think you will take all the fun out of it. For example my two friends below, let's call them Puff and Scuff. Puff likes to warm things up a bit, setting fires where ever she pleases and just causing general mayhem. Scuff on the other hand likes to poke his nose into what ever he can, scare people, and tries to eat their pets. We have all kinds of wild and crazy things, even Vampires in SL that would be more than happy to suck all the happiness out of you. Do you let them? Do you mute them? Do you make friends with them?  Do you wish they were banned?

And for you Hard Core SLers how do you deal with the Real Lifers that want to set rules for how you are to live your Second Life that want to tell you your SL experience is a reflection on your RL? Do you let them? Do you mute them? Do you make friends with them?  Do you wish they were banned?

We all see things from different points of view. I am not to saying one is right and the other is wrong, but they are different. When we are inworld there are ways to keep these different groups of people apart but here in the forums we all come together and there is no way to separate us. So how do you react to people that are very different from yourself?

PuffScuff2.png

 

All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real or virtual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

So how do you react to people that are very different from yourself?

This should be the title of the post.

Good title and thank you for reading as much as you must have to come up with that. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Brenda Connolly wrote:

I take all avatars I meet in SL at face value. However you present yourself is how I see you. Any possible differences between the avatar and it's driver are not important to me. I never ask questions about someone's RL, if they wish to offer information, fine. Different levels of friendship/acquaintance have different dynamics. "Need to know" is a good rule of thumb, at least for me. I play SL strictly for entertainment. I try to keep things light and stressfree.

Thank you for reminding us to keep things light and stressfree, we are in SL to have fun aen't we?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Solaria Goldshark wrote:

How do you deal with Second Life?

........with a nice pinot noir, and a healthy sense of humor.

 

OMG REALLY? (PUTS HANDS ON HIPS) WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THE IDEA THAT USING SL AND DRINKING PINOT NOIR IS A GOOD IDEA?

I think a merlot is much nicer and goes well with the dark chocolate i love. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Storm Clarence wrote:


Solaria Goldshark wrote:

How do you deal with Second Life?

........
with a nice pinot noir, and a healthy sense of humor.

Seems like a healthy way to approach life.  It is kind of how I approach/deal with things in SL. 

I think some of the opinions made in this tread speak to people wanting others to always
deal
with 'their' RL issues; the terms of the friendships that are built--and the only terms.   Friendship/relationships and just plain being different in SL or RL is NOT about me
always
dumping my problems e.g., health, finance, family, social issues on the the people I meet.  Frankly, I come here to get away from that.  Others seem to
troll
SL (in-world, forum, feeds) spreading their RL wretchedness to anyone that will listen.  I offer them a joke or a nice pinot noir.  That's how I deal with others; you get what you give.    

I hope people read your words as you have intended them, an expression of your point a few, and a very valid point of view it is. SL is a place for some of us to escape. It is sad to be worrying about RL stuff when we could be laughing at the fact that our Fire breathing friend just set the trolls hair on fire. But if you are too wrapped up in RL problems it is hard to laugh at anything. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Dillon Levenque wrote:

 "Do you let them? Do you mute them? Do you make friends with them?  Do you wish they were banned?"

 

You've asked four questions with two different sets of circumstances but I think my answers are the same for both.

As for Sl versus RL, I see no reason to react to/interact with people here any differently than I do in RL, and to the best of my knowledge, I don't. The one exception is that my temper does not show in SL as much as it does in RL for the simple reasons that 1: There is always a time delay involved with responding in SL (remember that 'count-to-ten' thing your Mom taught you?) and 2: It is so much easier to walk away from or otherwise ignore people in SL than it is in RL. My answers, even though I am a full-on immersionist, work for both my RL and my SL.

I respond differently to your questions depending on my feeling about the person. I'll use four classifications, only the last of which needs any definition: Neutral, Like, Dislike, Actively Dislike.

That last term was something I used, possibly coined, in an email once; "so-and-so is the only person here I actively dislike." What I meant was that so-and-so was the only person who could actually darken my day just by being there. Just seeing so-and-so walking the halls was enough to take the light out of the morning.

Neutral: No, No, Might, Might

Like:They don't do that, No, Am, Far from it

Dislike: No, No, Could happen, No

Actively Dislike: No, Might, No, Yes (I was gonna say 'I wouldn't mind' but I have to be honest and the honest answer is 'Yes').

There was an old song made famous by Frank Sinatra: "That's Why the Lady is a Tramp". Had a line that went "She never bothers with people she hates". I don't do hate, but if you substitute 'Actively Dislike' you'll have a good description of my attitude. I don't do the party thing where we're supposed to pretend we all like each other. I dislike that, for me it's faking. If I'm at a party with people I don't want to  be with I won't be with them. If they speak to me I will speak back, but only minimally. I actually had a guy who was one of the few on my 'Actively Dislike' list (and knew that) walk up to me at a convention we both happened to attend with a big smile and his hand out for a shake. I had no problem saying, "**** off, [Name]" and walking away.

 

ETA the questions. I knew there was a reason I'd left room at the top of my post

Dillon I don't know anything about the example you gave us. Is that a RL person you actively dislike, a SL person, I am not sure from reading it. But for the sake of discussion let's say that person might be a SLer. If so is it possible that the person you encountered at the convention was a SL Gamer? And just as baseball players meet in the middle of the field to say “good game” after the game this person was trying to give you a good game handshake? For some people RL values don't carry over to SL, but also any anger or hurt feelings caused in “the  game” don't easily carry over to real life. I have meet some people that see the graphics in SL as too cartoonish to take anything that happens here too seriously. But if we don't try to become friends with these people how do we know how they see things or why we are bumping heads over the issues. We can return dislike for dislike if we want but I prefer to meet misunderstandings with compassion and an open mind. Even vultures know how to nurture their young, there is a little bit of good in everyone. Shouldn't we focus on the good, the fun, and truthful parts of people instead of their mistakes? After all is there anyone that has not made them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Cali Souther wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

Actively Dislike: No, Might, No, Yes (I was gonna say 'I wouldn't mind' but I have to be honest and the honest answer is 'Yes').

 

 

I really like the term "actively dislike vs hate" ...  hate is bad for the soul. 

I think it is more than bad for the soul, it is death to the light that dwellls in there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Day Alderson wrote:


Keli Kyrie wrote:
I respect Real Lifers for their courage in mixing their Real Lifes with there Second Lives, that is a really hard thing to do, but it is not for everyone. I mean do you really want your mom or your boss to know what you do in here? Some people are in SL to have fun, to game, maybe even to test social limits and push buttons. If we can look at things from the right angle I think we can learn how to react to each other without blowing a gasket.


In your OP you asked "how do you deal with the Real Lifers that want to set rules for how you are to live your Second Life..." Your answer to my post gives me the idea that I might have misunderstood whom you see as Real Lifers.

For me Real Lifers like these are persons who begin a conversation with the age/sex/location questions and expect me to tell them the story of my RL and also to use voice/cam, because if I didn't I certainly had something to hide.

This is something different from people who just act the same way in SL and RL and are willing to share information about their RL.

Well I think there is no rule to make about this. I have never met a %100 RLer of a %100 SLers we are all somewhere inbetween.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Charolotte Caxton wrote:

You can hate someone without hating their children.

Are you sure about that Charo? Hate is like a bad infection it spreads. You may start off just hating one person, but then you hate the people that smile at them, and hate the people they are nice to wondering the whole time why they are not nice to you. Next thing you know you hate everything about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Faye Feldragonne wrote:


Keli Kyrie wrote:


Tari Landar wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Tari, while I'm in general agreement with the idea that we can walk away from unpleasant people and their behavior, that doesn't always ensure happiness. I have watched some of my friends endure the aggravation of unpleasant characters here in the forums and feeds. They are, to varying degrees, able to weather the abuse by ignoring it. But, to the extent they cannot, my enjoyment of SL is diminished by their unhappiness.

So it's not quite true that no one can ruin your experience unless you let them. While we can try to make the best of a situation, as long as we have empathy and friends, our happiness will be affected by others. For this reason, I do not advocate inclusiveness to the point of amorality.

Sadly, it is sometimes necessary to walk away from people we like to avoid people we don't.

I disagree entirely. Absolutely no other person can control your emotions, or your reactions, no matter what. It is entirely possible to have some of the worst things said, done, whatever, and still be able to walk away, head held high because you didn't allow that action or those words, get you down. Saying that's not possible is basically saying you have no free will. I don't believe people lack free will. It's a conscious choice to
let
what others say and do, affect you(negatively or positively). So you can always make the choice to allow things to only affect you in a positive way, and leave the rest behind, if you want to.Hard? Sure it is, at times. Impossible? Absolutely not.

Although I never did say ignoring that which you dislike will ensure happiness, I think there's much more to happiness than just that, lol. I can guarantee that making different choices when it comes to how you will
deal
will offer up a different outcome. If we let everything others say and do, affect us negatively all of the time, we'd be a very unhappy species-generally speaking. My opinion on that matter doesn't change simply because this is sl.

This is the same thing I tell others who have dealt with people who truly try their hardest to bring others down. Sometimes those people are successful, but it's only that way because their intended audience allows them to do that. I lost a friend a couple years ago to one such person. Her inability to realize that this person couldn't possibly ruin her life, if she didn't allow it, ended up being her literal demise in the end. I miss her terribly, and of course I don't support the way this man treated her, nor do I blame her or anything like that. But she
could
have walked away. She
could
have done a lot of things to change the outcome. It was her choice not to, and in the end it was her choice to deal with it in such a permanent way. Was I happy she was so miserable? Of course not. Did I let her unhappiness ruin my sl? Of course not. I can be sad, upset even, at what's happening to another and still not consider my sl ruined, lol. To say otherwise would mean she had complete control over me. That doesn't make a lick of sense.

I would like to think that had I, and others, not been there from the word go, trying to help her realize she could just walk away from it, things would have ended even sooner. Our positive attitudes, had just as much of an effect on her, as her negative one had on us. Positivity should always win out, in the end. I find it tragic when it doesn't, and unfortunately that happens way too often. You
can
counteract the negative with a positive, you just have to put forth the effort to do so. We're all human though and we are often lead by emotion, which can be both a positive and negative thing. I still see no reason to give up our free will simply because others are choosing to utilize theirs with bad intentions.

I like what you said here very much I wish I could have been able to explain these concepts as well as you have laid them out. It reminds me of lessons I learned reading this book:

Please. What you're talking about would only apply if the person with "free will" had a perfect childhood, a perfect adulthood, spent a few years in talk therapy, had attained cosmic consciousness, and even then they'd probably still get upset if someone pooped on them. All of us get our feathers ruffled...and, your avatar bouncing around gives me a headache.

 

Not at all. It does not need to be that hard. If we all made one improvemnet in how we treat eachother the world would be a better place tomorrow. It can just be somrthing as simple as smiling at someone and telling them good afternoon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

/me looks from his comfy seat on his wall.

/me smiles.

care_001.jpg

You know .. this was hanging on my wall long before this thread. Given to me by a good friend.

 

I' ve been and I still am happy to pass it to almost anyone along in SL who wants one.

There are yet those I will not give it to myself.

 

That' s SL(F).

 

 

ETA : Original object by Carmsie Melodie.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:

Not at all. It does not need to be that hard. If we all made one improvemnet in how we treat eachother the world would be a better place tomorrow. It can just be somrthing as simple as smiling at someone and telling them good afternoon.


And if you smile and say good afternoon while that person is publically verbally abusing someone? There's a time to frown as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some time ago Keli Kyrie wrote (emphasis hers):

I KNOW MOST WON'T LIKE THIS
... 
but we need trolls... just like we need Lurkers, Helpers, and Goofballs.
 No one is more important than anyone else. If everyone was a Helper how boring would that be? To me it was all the Wild and Diverse Personalities that made the old GD so great and this party is a place for all of them to come together in one place.

And now Keli Kyrie writes (emphasis mine):

Hi Cali,

  
I am not saying I condone trolls
or bullies what I am questioning is how we react to people that see things differently from the way we do. The fact is some people see SL as a game and treat “the characters” in it as a game. Do we let these people freak us out on a daily basis, do we let them “ruin” our SL just because they see things differently then the rest of us? If you go to the stove once and grab the cast iron skillet and get burned that is one thing, but if you do it day after day... Come on grab a pot holder, make sure the stove is off, adapt to the situation. Even if someone carries the skillet into your room and says it is safe don't trust it.... those skillets can stay hot for a long time. Test it. We don't have to keep getting hurt over and over again. If you are going to handle bees wear thick gloves don't go in there with your heart on your sleeve.

Keli, before I read this as self contradiction, can you explain it?

And why should we expect the victims of bullies to grow thick skins, yet not hold the bullies accountable for their actions? It seems to me you are being hypocritcal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please. What you're talking about would only apply if the person with "free will" had a perfect childhood, a perfect adulthood, spent a few years in talk therapy, had attained cosmic consciousness, and even then they'd probably still get upset if someone pooped on them. All of us get our feathers ruffled...and, your avatar bouncing around gives me a headache.



Sorry it's not letting me quote, that stupid error again....

There is a huge difference between getting upset, feathers ruffled, whatever you want to call it when another person says or does something...and allowing those feelings to actually direct how you feel about everything else around you, how you react and/or how you treat others. Of course everyone gets upset, dislikes things and even acts on things from an emotional standpoint. That's just part of our human nature, and not something I'd consider a character flaw, by far. But you can feel a certain way about something, yet still not necessarily act on those feelings. Like when I get upset, I don't have to tell everyone and their mother. I don't have to let what griefers, or even a general bully, get me down all the time. I can be so extremely frustrated, angry even, at someone or something, yet still not allow those particular feelings dictate how I am going to live the rest of my life that day/week/month/year/whatever.

That's my point. Free will is the ability to make choices for ourselves. That includes how we react to others around us and what they choose to do with their free will. You don't have to have had perfect life, or any of the above things at all, to be able to deal with things, people or situations, like a mature adult. Of course no one is a mature adult at all times, we've all got our moments. I wouldn't ever suggest otherwise. But sometimes, some people, let things get to them way too much. Griefing is actually a prime example of that(even here on the forums). By that I mean, how people deal with those they determine are griefers. If you constantly take their bait-as many do-you're not doing anyone any sort of service, including yourself. Same goes for griefing elsewhere in life-because it's not something we can get rid of entirely. We can however change how we let it affect us. We can't change the choices others make, but we can change the choices we make.

I don't need to have gone to therapy to know that allowing others to dictate how I should feel, or act, isn't a healthy way to look at things. It's going to happen, from time to time, but I surely don't make a habit of it, lol. At least, not anymore, I used to though. That's exactly why i know just how odd that sort of idea really is. The idea that others can really "ruin" an experience for me, that is. I don't have to let them ruin it. No one does. When it happens though, it's because we choose to let it happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:

Dillon I don't know anything about the example you gave us. Is that a RL person you actively dislike, a SL person, I am not sure from reading it. But for the sake of discussion let's say that person might be a SLer. If so is it possible that the person you encountered at the convention was a SL Gamer? And just as baseball players meet in the middle of the field to say “good game” after the game this person was trying to give you a good game handshake? For some people RL values don't carry over to SL, but also any anger or hurt feelings caused in “the  game” don't easily carry over to real life. I have meet some people that see the graphics in SL as too cartoonish to take anything that happens here too seriously. But if we don't try to become friends with these people how do we know how they see things or why we are bumping heads over the issues. We can return dislike for dislike if we want but I prefer to meet misunderstandings with compassion and an open mind. Even vultures know how to nurture their young, there is a little bit of good in everyone. Shouldn't we focus on the good, the fun, and truthful parts of people instead of their mistakes? After all is there anyone that has not made them?

 

 

Then let me make it clear. The person was someone I'd worked with on a daily basis in RL for over five years. I didn't need to try to understand him. I'd been there and done that. There was no misunderstanding.

You have a Pollyanna approach to all this, I do not. People who make a point of attacking me or my friends or, in one famous troll's case, practically everyone in the Forum will earn my dislike. I don't care about their 'good points'.  I don't 'have fun' with people who say atrocious things to and about people I like.

Edited to remove excess quotage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Tari Landar wrote:

Please. What you're talking about would only apply if the person with "free will" had a perfect childhood, a perfect adulthood, spent a few years in talk therapy, had attained cosmic consciousness, and even then they'd probably still get upset if someone pooped on them. All of us get our feathers ruffled...and, your avatar bouncing around gives me a headache.



Sorry it's not letting me quote, that stupid error again....

There is a huge difference between getting upset, feathers ruffled, whatever you want to call it when another person says or does something...and allowing those feelings to actually direct how you feel about everything else around you, how you react and/or how you treat others. Of course everyone gets upset, dislikes things and even acts on things from an emotional standpoint. That's just part of our human nature, and not something I'd consider a character flaw, by far. But you can
feel
a certain way about something, yet still not necessarily
act
on those feelings. Like when I get upset, I don't have to tell everyone and their mother. I don't have to let what griefers, or even a general bully, get me down all the time. I can be so extremely frustrated, angry even, at someone or something, yet still not allow those particular feelings dictate how I am going to live the rest of my life that day/week/month/year/whatever.

That's my point. Free will is the ability to make choices for ourselves. That includes how we react to others around us and what they choose to do with their free will. You don't have to have had perfect life, or any of the above things at all, to be able to
deal
with things, people or situations, like a mature adult. Of course no one is a mature adult at all times, we've all got our moments. I wouldn't ever suggest otherwise. But sometimes, some people, let things get to them way too much. Griefing is actually a prime example of that(even here on the forums). By that I mean, how people deal with those they determine are griefers. If you constantly take their bait-as many do-you're not doing anyone any sort of service, including yourself. Same goes for griefing elsewhere in life-because it's not something we can get rid of entirely. We
can
however change how we let it affect us. We can't change the choices others make, but we can change the choices we make.

I don't need to have gone to therapy to know that allowing others to dictate how I should feel, or act, isn't a healthy way to look at things. It's going to happen, from time to time, but I surely don't make a habit of it, lol. At least, not anymore, I used to though. That's exactly why i know just how odd that sort of idea really is. The idea that others can really "ruin" an experience for me, that is. I don't
have
to let them ruin it. No one does. When it happens though, it's because we
choose
to let it happen.

I agree with this, even though I'm still contemplating my stance on free-will (I don't think it matters for this discussion). What is bothering me about this particular thread is the idea that we must be all inclusive or we'll miss out on something, and that the solution for disharmony is for those with thin skins to thicken it.

It's been suggested to me by good friends that my ignoring bullying and griefing can, at times, appear as approval of it. By definition, they are correct. It is their observation. I counter with my usual argument that if they too ignore the bullying, they deprive the bully of his/her oxygen. That's true, but there are other sources of oxygen and it doesn't take long for the bullies to find them.

So there's the dilemma. Do you just walk away from the bully and let those with thinner skins fend for themselves, with the belief that the school of hard knocks will whip them into shape? (I often do). Do you offer assistance to the victim of bullying, with the hope of helping them grow that thick skin faster? (I often do). Do you, without becoming a bully yourself, call out the bullying behavior? (This is the most difficult for me).

I haven't got the answer, my friends and enemies alike will confirm that. But it does seem to me that blindly embracing everyone is not the answer. Discrimination is not an inherently bad thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


I agree with this, even though I'm still contemplating my stance on 
(I don't think it matters for this discussion). What is bothering me about this particular thread is the idea that we must be all inclusive or we'll miss out on something, and that the solution for disharmony is for those with thin skins to thicken it.

It's been suggested to me by good friends that my ignoring bullying and griefing can, at times, appear as approval of it. By definition, they are correct. It is their observation. I counter with my usual argument that if they too ignore the bullying, they deprive the bully of his/her oxygen. That's true, but there are other sources of oxygen and it doesn't take long for the bullies to find them.

So there's the dilemma. Do you just walk away from the bully and let those with thinner skins fend for themselves, with the belief that the school of hard knocks will whip them into shape? (I often do). Do you offer assistance to the victim of bullying, with the hope of helping them grow that thick skin faster? (I often do). Do you, without becoming a bully yourself, call out the bullying behavior? (This is the most difficult for me).

I haven't got the answer, my friends and enemies alike will confirm that. But it does seem to me that blindly embracing everyone is not the answer. Discrimination is not an inherently bad thing.

I definitely agree with some points, blindly accepting any and all things is no more the answer than standing up to each and every thing or person(well verbally standing up to, in many cases). That's why I said that we all do, and will, react when things bother us. That's just part of who we are. It's not so much the fact that we do react that puzzles me as much as how we react. That's where you can draw a line, if you're going to draw one anywhere that is, as to how far you can/will go with your reaction. The line that separates the receiver from the producer of the grief/harassment/bullying/whatever is going on, is an important one that we all too often cross because we simply feel that we have to react.

I certainly don't have any direct answers either for every situation. But I do know what doesn't typically work, what sometimes works, and things that are hit and miss based on the situation at hand. I also know that a lot of people never learn from their own mistakes-which is why molehills turn into mountains and why griefers truly hell bent on creating problems continue to thrive. Because some people, somewhere, let them. 

Sometimes standing up, for yourself or another person, is your best option. But even in doing that, you can still come out ahead of the person you're standing up against. Reacting doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, or a sign that something has been ruined either. I'm not so certain that calling out another is always, or even mostly, the best option though. But it would depend entirely on the situation at hand, and how you go about doing it. Most times, such action would likely backfire before it would be even remotely helpful.

There's a difference between standing up to a bully, and trying to put one in it's place, imo. Sometimes it might seem like a grand idea, in theory, but once brought to fruition-not so much. Most of what I see, read, hear, have dealt with, etc... all falls under the "is it really worth my effort to even care" umbrella, or my "would reacting openly, and addressing this issue/bully/griefer directly actually make things better", umbrella. If my answer is no then those are times when walking away is probably the best option. If you can't fix the problem by standing up to or confronting it directly it(without getting bent out of shape yourself of course), you're more likely to only fuel it, making it worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SpaceInvaders.jpg

 


Keli Kyrie wrote:



Thank you Perrie is it always good to see your thoughtful replies. While I can see that it is very hard for a lot of people to separate their SL from their RL I think it is worth reminding for others it is not. For them it is like going down to the arcade, putting a quarter in the slot, and using up their three lives. When the game is over they just start again sometimes with a new alt. For them it is hard to see why everyone is taking things so serious, to them it is just a game after all. btw thank you so much for sharing your story about your friend it has given me much to think about.
:)

The problem with treating it like an 'arcade' is that Second Life is NOT a one person shooter.  And while you can find people (role play) or places with shoot em up games, the reality is that Second Life is not  an 'arcade.'  It is a Virtual World built by it's residents.

We are talking about real people with real feelings, real desires, real hopes and aspirations.

If you want to play 'shoot em up.' there are SIMs for a person to do that and I absolutely respect your right to do so.  Why would it be wrong for me to expect someone to respect my right when I am out romantic dancing at a place dedicated to that not to be attacked by a fire breathing dragon?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>> Why would it be wrong for me to expect someone to respect my right when I am out romantic dancing at a place dedicated to that not to be attacked by a fire breathing dragon?<<

Why would it be wrong for a fire breathing dragon to expect someone to respect its right to attack people? After all, isn't that what fire breathing dragons do ??

Jeanne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Keli Kyrie wrote:


Charolotte Caxton wrote:

You can hate someone without hating their children.

Are you sure about that Charo? Hate is like a bad infection it spreads. You may start off just hating one person, but then you hate the people that smile at them, and hate the people they are nice to wondering the whole time why they are not nice to you. Next thing you know you hate everything about them.

Yes, I am sure that you can hate someone without hating their children.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...