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Pazzo Pestana

No Mod Shapes in the Age of Mesh ... Why??

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:


Kelli May wrote:

Shape designers, like anyone else, don't want to give away their IP to anyone who wants to come along and rip off their designs. So it's very common for shapes to be sold no-mod.

 

Does anyone else find it mindblowing that something as mundane as a slider setting passes off as "intellectual property" these days?

I'm curious. Has anyone ever been DMCA'ed for imitating someone else's shape?

Can I claim copyright on something like "New Shape" after modifying just one slider? How many sliders would I have to touch until the shape becomes "mine" and illegal for everyone else to use? Where do you guys draw the line? Can I still set sliders to 50 if someone else has a shape with those sliders set to 49, or am I already infringing?

Coming up next: copyright on RGB slider settings.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems that the word "intellectual" no longer means what it used to mean.

Your rant isn't very intellectual either. I might use another word that also begins with an i.

I'm insulted when people claim that making a shape is nothing, anyone can do it, it doesn't require any artistic ability, all shapes are alike, and no one has a right to any of it. I beg to differ as well.

I put work and effort and time into my shapes. It also does take an eye. Sometimes it just isn't right and one tweak will make the face suddenly pull together. What had an uncanny valley quality suddenly looks more appealing. What seemed cartoonish looks more real. What seemed unbalanced or uneven suddenly is attractive. NOT everyone can make a shape as well as everyone else. Some shapes look good until you see the facial profile and then everything is caved in. I could give other examples but I'm not here to trash other people's work or aesthetics.

So yeah, if you copy the numbers and pass it off as your own, that's stealing. Sounds like you think it isn't. I beg to differ with you. If it is so easy then just begin with the Create/New shape like a real shape maker with some integrity would do, and avoid the entire controversy! 

Sorry about your apparent lack of ethics.

And by the way NO shape maker of any ability would ever just push all the sliders to 50.

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Thank you Kelli. 

I also hate when people apparently confuse "free for personal use" with "public domain." Not the same thing, at all. 

I've seen people reselling my shapes, I've seen them change one or two things and resell them, I've seen them brag about "the shape they made" when I know for a fact they were in my shop and the faces are exactly like mine. And stood silent while they took accolades for 'their shape' - it was for personal use, and being a dirtbag isn't against the law. (It only stung when they also ran down shape makers and claimed they'd never use one they hadn't made. Riiight.)

As for how many DMCA why would that other person ask that...I really have to wonder. My personal answer would be none of your business.

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Thanks for saying it isn't easy Ossian.

I'm not saying mine are the be all end all either - or even good. That's all subjective. I just get a bit irate at the continual running down of shape making in the forums because I think it does require some work and ability. I don't know why it is less respected than other Second Life 'arts.' Houses and most other things begin with a simple prim and that's also available to everyone. Hair isn't all THAT hard to make either. What's hard is to make items that are good quality. That's true of all of those things. People who would never say it's easy to make a sculpt house vs. a prim shack (I don't think it's even easy to make a good prim shack) or to make hair that's like Truth makes vs. the old full perm stuff, will say all shapes are the same and anyone can do it. 

Then they post a pic of their own shapes and I just want to bite my lip. I can only bite it so long - it hurts. Lol

There are a lot of good shape makers in Second Life. I know from my own experience as a consumer there are a lot who shouldn't be charging for what they make, either...in my own opinion. Because it's all subjective and also to help others if I can, all of mine are free for personal use. But that doesn't mean they are worth only 0 Linden just because that's all I charge for their personal use...Or that they are for resale.

I'd think if someone has to COPY something that would be a clue to them that they are stealing - or to change their name on a creation - another clue that they are stealing.

We do all have to begin with the basic shape made by a Linden but there is nothing we can do about that.

I try to make each shape I make have its own face, life story, personality, they don't all look the same. I wish people would in general be more sensitive to the fact that people do try to make something of quality and it isn't there to be dissed or stolen just because they see no value in it. Why is it those people don't just make their own, from scratch, ever, if it's nothing?

OK sorry but something in that other person's post rattled my cage. Lol   It isn't easy putting one's work out there, no matter what it is or how little others value it, just to have it ripped off. Shape makers put no less work into their creations than a lot of other vendors put into theirs. It's no different and should be protected.

I hope if the Lindens are listening they find a way to make slider numbers invisible once a shape transfers hands.  ;)

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"If I upload an original texture and you take a copy of it and change a few pixels, it is still a copy of my texture. If I upload an original mesh and you take a copy of it and move a few of its vertices, it is still my mesh. So I'd argue that you can't claim exclusive ownership of any possible SL avatar shape any more than you can copyright a colour on a prim. "

____

 

THAT  - just blows my mind. First of all - the SL avatar shape IS vertices. So how is that different from changing a vertice or two of something YOU made? No we can't copyright colors (although lipstick companies and crayon companies have copyrighted names of them.) We didn't make colors, God did (or whatever you believe did it.) But you give a perfect example of why the three things ARE Alike and then throw a random element in like naturally occurring colors and claim the three hand crafted items are not alike. Do you have any idea how many shapes are possible? Maybe as many as possible mesh shapes. (People also steal mesh shapes all over the internet - is that right also in your mind because "the tools are the same for everyone?")

Kelli showed you there is an INFINITE combination of sliders - it isn't just one thing it's the entire combination. So you think if someone changes one thing in a texture you made and puts it out there as theirs, that's stealing - but to copy all or part of a shape that's entirely different from the base model is NOT? Very nice justification there! /sarcasm

Just make your own. If it is so easy. Just make your own (from the base Linden shape.) What is so hard to understand about that? 

What if someone said "just changing one thing in your texture does make it mine because the law says if you change 20% of something it is different enough" - I heard someone say that once. So why is it that most texture makers forbid that? You even said in your post that would be stealing. What if the thief justified the one change and passing your texture as their own with "we all start out with the same tools in photoshop, there are only so many photoshop brushes and only so many colors?" Or even, "all textures are flat - what's so different about them? So all your textures are belong to me." 

Do you not see the tool may be the same and things may look similar - for instance if a thief said "so what you made a wood grain texture, what's the difference between that one and another wood grain texture, there are only so many ways to make one" - but the things are totally different? Because not only did two different people actually make those similar seeming products but they are different?

If you happen to make one that looks just like someone else's but you DID begin it from scratch then that's totally different than stealing it, or changing one thing and putting your name on the entire creation. Or stealing parts of it - like the butt, or the neck to waist, or the face. (I've heard people blithely say they stole the legs off a costly shape and put it on their own because they were spending weeks trying to make good legs and couldn't. How is that not stealing?)

If you can't see that then you are just justifying theft to make yourself feel better. That is EXACTLY what it sounds like to me. You don't sound stupid, so what else can it be?? The same tools or a similar result ("two big butts" as you say - that is too vague, trust me they are not all alike) does NOT make it the same product when two different people made it! Go try to steal a corner of something from a museum and paste it into your own work and see if they like it??

______

"I'd argue that creating a "pleasing" shape in the appearance editor is not an act of designing. You didn't create the mesh, you just modify its boob and butt sizes within the confines granted by LL. That is about as creative as choosing a colour for a prim. The human shape is not your "idea", you didn't invent the proportions that make it look "pleasing"."

______

Try saying that to anyone with any art background at all. Da Vinci didn't make the human body either - is there no difference between the Mona Lisa and a stick figure? All people can create what they see? You sound ridiculous.

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Clarissa Lowell wrote:

THAT  - just blows my mind. First of all - the SL avatar shape IS vertices. So how is that different from changing a vertice or two of something YOU made?

It is not different. That is exactly my point.

The SL avatar mesh, including its morph targets, is © Linden Lab. By moving its appearance sliders, you interpolate between those morph targets and create derivative works which are not copyrightable because they lack originality. You are not adding anything that wasn't there before. The mesh, including its shape, is still © Linden Lab.

I want to make one thing clear because it gets disputed again and again: The number of appearance sliders is totally irrelevant. Each slider moves vertices between two predefined targets designed by the creator of the mesh. Operating those sliders doesn't make you an artist. Anyone with an art background should be able to understand this. The entire expressive range of possible shapes offered by the SL avatar was conceived by the artist who created the set of morph targets.

Even if you load the mesh into a 3D editor and make adjustments there, the mesh will remain © Linden Lab. Only if you create your own avatar mesh from scratch, that mesh will be © Clarissa Lowell, including all its possible shapes.


Try saying that to anyone with any art background at all. Da Vinci didn't make the human body either - is there no difference between the Mona Lisa and a stick figure? All people can create what they see? You sound ridiculous.

Da Vinci created his painting from scratch. His medium of expression offered total artistic freedom. He could have painted Mona Lisa with horns on her forehead or a third arm growing out of her chest. His choices were not limited to a few sliders modifying someone else's work.

Ironically, Da Vinci painted Mona Lisa roughly 200 years before copyright was invented. Today we are dealing with an army of zero-talent egomaniacs who drag some sliders in a computer game and suddenly feel on par with Da Vinci.

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:


Clarissa Lowell wrote:

THAT  - just blows my mind. First of all - the SL avatar shape IS vertices. So how is that different from changing a vertice or two of something YOU made?

It is not different. That is exactly my point.

The SL avatar mesh, including its
, is © Linden Lab. By moving its appearance sliders, you interpolate between those morph targets and create derivative works which are not copyrightable because they lack originality. You are not adding anything that wasn't there before. The mesh, including its shape, is still © Linden Lab.

I want to make one thing clear because it gets disputed again and again: The number of appearance sliders is totally irrelevant. Each slider moves vertices between two predefined targets
designed by the creator of the mesh.
Operating those sliders doesn't make you an artist. Anyone with an art background should be able to understand this. The entire expressive range of possible shapes offered by the SL avatar was conceived by the artist who created the set of morph targets.

Even if you load the mesh into a 3D editor and make adjustments there, the mesh will remain © Linden Lab. Only if you create your own avatar mesh
from scratch
, that mesh will be © Clarissa Lowell,
including all its possible shapes.

Try saying that to anyone with any art background at all. Da Vinci didn't make the human body either - is there no difference between the Mona Lisa and a stick figure? All people can create what they see? You sound ridiculous.

Da Vinci created his painting from scratch. His medium of expression offered total artistic freedom. He could have painted Mona Lisa with horns on her forehead or a third arm growing out of her chest. His choices were not limited to a few sliders modifying
someone else's
work.

Ironically, Da Vinci painted Mona Lisa roughly 200 years before copyright was invented. Today we are dealing with an army of zero-talent egomaniacs who drag some sliders in a computer game and suddenly feel on par with Da Vinci.

Define irony? Here you are defending  your copying someone else's work by saying the shape artists are all copying Linden Lab's work.

Do you know what an even playing field is? Start with the same one everyone else did, and then you have created something. 

That is true whether it is a charcoal stick and paper, or the base avatar mesh provided by Linden Lab.

You completely ignored my points about *not everyone can create what they see* and so forth. Obviously, between that and your increasing insults "no talent egomaniacs (who) feel on a par with Da Vinci" you are a troll I should have pegged as such far sooner.

I guess you do not know the difference between an analogy and a boast.

The point is this. When someone makes a shape that has begun with the material provided, in this case the Linden Lab default 'create a new shape' - from there on out they are molding it to resemble something. Do you think all shapes look alike? Do you think people's aesthetic and time and effort are worthless? It must be so if you think you can steal what they have done and not give it another thought. Whether the starting point is a default mesh, or a default prim cube, or pad and paper, does not matter. The point is that someone has applied their time and effort and creativity and artistic ability to that.

If you think it doesn't matter, then why would  you NEED to steal any part of their work? The shape makers have no choice but to begin with the default 'create a shape.' You DO have a choice other than stealing what they made from that.

begone troll...begone

 

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Let me put this into simple words so that you can understand it:

What I said about derivative works is backed up by law. Your opinion is backed up by wishful thinking.

You seem insulted by the word "egomaniac". Let me take a moment to explain why it is perfectly appropriate here:

You feel entitled to take someone else's copyrighted work, in this case Linden Lab's avatar mesh, and make modifications to it. But if someone else wants to take your derivative work and modify it further, you call it "stealing". That is not a level playing field; it is the very definition of a double standard. Obviously you consider yourself a special snowflake. Hence the term "egomaniac".

Selling shapes and denying your customers the privilege to personalize them is essentially a type of fraud. You are tricking noobs into buying demos at full price. Later, when the noob discovers that the product is locked and comes back to you to complain, you trick them into buying the same shape again, at an even higher price, by pointing at your non-existing copyright.

Fraudsters, that's what you people are. For once, let's call the child by its name.

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:

Let me put this into simple words so that you can understand it:

What I said about derivative works is backed up by law. Your opinion is backed up by wishful thinking.

You seem insulted by the word "egomaniac". Let me take a moment to explain why it is perfectly appropriate here:

You feel entitled to take someone else's copyrighted work, in this case Linden Lab's avatar mesh, and make modifications to it. But if someone else wants to take your derivative work and modify it further, you call it "stealing". That is not a level playing field; it is the very definition of a double standard. Obviously you consider yourself a
. Hence the term "egomaniac".

Selling shapes and denying your customers the privilege to personalize them is essentially a type of fraud. You are tricking noobs into buying demos at full price. Later, when the noob discovers that the product is locked and comes back to you to complain, you trick them into buying the same shape again, at an even higher price, by pointing at your non-existing copyright.

Fraudsters, that's what you people are. For once, let's call the child by its name.

Trolololol

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in support of Masami i would say, the fact the mesh is already created and the slider values already present. all possible variations already exist, they are already there, it's just up to you to select the one you want.

nothing original is being created.

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*Woman having a nervous break down in Isle two*

Clarissa, get over yourself. You're wrong, Pazzo is right.

Now on topic.

I too find it strange. I have been asking and asking this woman who has made three mesh shapes so far, one after i asked her to make the mesh modifiable. She came up with a plethora of 'reasons not to.

The main one being simply. "I could not let people modify my skins." and when I suggest just sendng outn a basic skin and a template so people understand it when they create their owns kins it was. "I will try making one."

 

I'm sorry but if you haven't got a template already you're doing something wrong. That's like making a skin in PS without layers.

 

So. I eventually got her to say she'd make it mod. Gave her the day she asked for and a week more before I contacted her. I still havent got a response. So I have two stunning mesh avatars that are useless because I can't change their skin colour. 

Really, what's the use?

 

The only shape store I know of are Horo. But all their shapes are based off of Daz Studio 3D and don't rig properly in and SL rigging program so the chest moves through and clothing you want to wear. Whether you're male or female.

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Bouttime Whybrow wrote:

in support of Masami i would say, the fact the mesh is already created and the slider values already present. all possible variations already exist, they are already there, it's just up to you to select the one you want.

nothing original is being created.

This is equivalent of saying about a painter: All the colours already exist and all possible brush strokes already exist.  It's just up to the artist to select right combination of colours and brush strokes to put on their canvas.  Nothing original was created. :smileysurprised:

It's true about SL avatar that all slider values exist, we don't create any slider values, nor the base mesh.  The skill in shape tweaking is what combination of slider values one chooses.  It takes some study and knowledge about human proportions.  After when one has that knowledge and an eye to understand the proportions well then it is fairly easy to make the body shape well proportioned and good looking.  The face is the most difficult part, it can take very long time to achieve certain looks and to make it good looking.  So, making a good looking avatar takes time and effort.  Is this not a form of art?

I kind of understand the shape creators who make their sold shapes no mod, they have spent fair amount of time modifying the shapes.  If they sold them as modifiable, then in practice the shapes are full perm as the buyer could copy the slider values and thus could also distribute or re-sell the shape showing themselves as the creator.

 

P.S.

Best solution would be to learn to tweak one's own shape (I'm avoiding here the word 'create' :smileytongue:).  As I mentioned it takes some study first.  And it takes time too.  By tweaking one's own shape it will unique, most likely nobody else will have exactly the same shape.  And it gives satisfaction, a feeling of  'I made this one', in the sense that it was you that selected the excellent unique combination of the slider values for your own avatar. :smileywink:

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I would disagree with the "colours already exist" analogy, but agree with the underlying point. When you edit a shape, you are not creating something new. You are editing an existing art asset someone else created, but I also won't say it does not take skill.

It takes a solid understanding of proportions and anatomy to do something good with the appearance editor, as well as an understanding of the quirks and bugs in the appearance editor. It's also a considerable amount of work to get a good shape out of the appearance editor as practically everything is working against you in your efforts. Sadly, LL could have avoided pretty much all of these problems early on with a better designed appearance editor.

 

 For these reasons I do not have a problem with people selling shapes (though I would not agree these shapes are "original creations", they're edits to existing art assets) and while I would say it's up to the person selling whether or not they want to sell a shape as moddable, I personally would never buy a no-mod shape, and I would recommend no one else did, either.

 

 On the other, other hand, the issue today is that mesh attachments (rigged ones, at least) cannot be modded to fit different shapes. This is a failing of Linden Labs. Mesh was released broken, in that it is not compatible with LL's own appearance editor.

 Currently, the community has paid a third party (an ex-Linden in this case) to create a patch fixing the problem, and LL is apparently including this patch in upcoming versions of the official LL viewer (and so all up to date TPVs will include it as well) which should solve the issue.

 Of course, only new content made to work with this patch will be able to take advantage of it, rigged mesh content made to this point is already obsolete.

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That's like saying that since da Vinci didn't invent paint or canvas, or even the idea of painting, all of his work is derivative.

Anyone can move paint around on a canvas and call the result a painting. Anyone can move sliders around and say that they made a shape.

Just because the process itself is mechanical, doesn't guarantee that the result will look good or even be usable.

In real life, anyone can put flowers in a vase. None of us invented flowers or vases, and most of haven't made a vase. And yet, the results are drastically different between a person with a good eye and a sense of design. Training can help, too.

I notice that there's no avatar photo for Masami. Why is that? It's easy to SAY that making shapes is easy. But there is a big distance between saying and doing. So show us, Masami. Show us the wonderful shape you made for yourself.

Better still, push those sliders around and amaze us. If you can make a better face than the one in my profile picture (which, incidentally, I bought), I'll admit you're right.

But I'm quite sure from the way you talk, that you can't.

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Ossian wrote:

I notice that there's no avatar photo for Masami. Why is that? It's easy to SAY that making shapes is easy. But there is a big distance between saying and doing. So show us, Masami. Show us the wonderful shape you made for yourself.

Better still, push those sliders around and amaze us. If you can make a better face than the one in my profile picture (which, incidentally, I bought), I'll admit you're right.

But I'm quite sure from the way you talk, that you can't.

You must be new here, Ossian Resident.

Indeed, I don't push sliders in the appearance editor. I used to model human bodies from scratch, in Blender, and I happen to be quite good at that. Those who have been around longer than you may be able to tell you about it, because I did occasionally post examples here and elsewhere. So excuse me if I refrain from proving my skills yet again just to make an impression on a newbie.

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Thank you, Coby.

*sprays some at Masami, his various sock puppets, and others who'd rather use insults than actually read what others actually wrote.*

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Penny Patton wrote:

I would disagree with the "colours already exist" analogy, but agree with the underlying point. When you edit a shape, you are not creating something new. You are editing an existing art asset someone else created, but I also won't say it does not take skill.

 

Some shape makers slide all sliders to zero before they begin. 

But I see now what they are doing is picking apart words. And they're trolls, because they're attacking without either reading or while ignoring what people actually said. Such as castigating me for not allowing modifying when I do allow modifying, and said so. Such as twisting "don't put your name on my work" to "modify it and that's stealing." That's not what I said.

Such as calling Ossian a newbie. LOL

I do not know why the mods are letting them get away with calling people no talent, nervous breakdown having, egomaniac, fraudsters. 

So you made a mesh in Blender, Masami. Did you invent Blender? Your arguments are ridiculous and one sided. Changing one pixel of a hypothetical texture, if YOU made it, is stealing, if someone else puts their name on it. But someone does a sculpture of a human face using a Second Life in world tool and that's up for grabs to anyone to slap their name on it. Even if you don't respect spatial ability how about time and effort spent on something.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE TOS SAYS IT IS AGAINST TOS TO STEAL SOMEONE ELSE's WORK. THE TOS ALSO GIVES US PERMISSION TO USE THE SECOND LIFE AVATAR MESH and other things like that...Stop trolling, you know that you are wrong.

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Since he apparently thinks stealing is fine, how would we know HE even made it, if he DID post a photo of said shape?

Pardon, it's only stealing if someone changes something HE made, and puts their name on it; the same doesn't apply if he does it to someone else, apparently.

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Hello, person I never met or saw in the forums before. SO strange you would pop in and insult me while defending the indefensible position of "stealing is okay," isn't it?

I'm not having a nervous breakdown, but thanks for showing your backside with that quickness to insult.

The only shape shop you know is one? There are probably hundreds of shape shops in Second Life. Do all you sock puppets realize we're not all discussing mesh shapes? We are discussing why the regular avatar shapes would still be sold no modify, in the AGE of mesh. In other words, because the avatar old mesh is supposedly worth less now that better, mesh shapes are available.

If you'd bother to actually read what everyone is actually saying, or even to type an intelligible post yourself, or give any logical foundation to your argument, I might think you're just immature rather than being here to troll. Given none of that seems to be true plus you stoop to personal attacks I have to think you're in the troll patrol.

I GIVE AWAY for PERSONAL use, FREE, modifyable, copyable, no transfer shapes. All I ask is that people do not steal my work, I don't ask  you respect it I ask that you not STEAL It, that seems to be too much to ask from some of you here and you even brag about it. Is it really too much to ask that people don't steal what I made? Simply because I used an in world tool? If it's so easy to make your own, then just do it, and shut up about it already.

 

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Clarissa Lowell wrote:

I do not know why the mods are letting them get away with calling people no talent, nervous breakdown having, egomaniac, fraudsters. 

If they had not let you get away first with calling people thieves, we would not be having this discussion. Consider yourself lucky.


So you made a mesh in Blender, Masami. Did you invent Blender?

My meshes exist independently of Blender. They are not tied to anyone else's work. They look the same in Maya, 3ds Max and Second Life, because they describe a surface in a three-dimensional coordinate system.

Your shapes on the other hand exist only as a modification of someone else's work. Without the SL avatar mesh as a reference, which is © Linden Lab, those shapes are nothing but meaningless numbers.

My meshes are original expressions protected by copyright law. Your shapes are derivative works protected by nothing but Second Life's permissions system.


Even if you don't respect spatial ability how about time and effort spent on something.

Why don't you respect people's freedoms? Why do you deny them the right to modify your work, considering that your work is nothing more than a modification in the first place?


BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE TOS SAYS IT IS AGAINST TOS TO STEAL SOMEONE ELSE's WORK. THE TOS ALSO GIVES US PERMISSION TO USE THE SECOND LIFE AVATAR MESH and other things like that...Stop trolling, you know that you are wrong.

 

People like you tend to believe that SL's permissions system is a direct manifestation of copyright, but that is a misconception. You can make everything no-copy here, but that doesn't mean everything is copyrightable, including plywood cubes. Try filing a DMCA takedown notice against someone reselling modified versions of your shapes and see what happens. All the other person needs to do is file a counter notice, and that will be the end of the story, because your "intellectual property" has a snowball's chance in hell of being recognized by a court.

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:


Ossian wrote:

I notice that there's no avatar photo for Masami. Why is that? It's easy to SAY that making shapes is easy. But there is a big distance between saying and doing. So show us, Masami. Show us the wonderful shape you made for yourself.

Better still, push those sliders around and amaze us. If you can make a better face than the one in my profile picture (which, incidentally, I bought), I'll admit you're right.

But I'm quite sure from the way you talk, that you can't.

You must be new here, Ossian Resident.

Indeed, I don't push sliders in the appearance editor. I used to model human bodies from scratch, in Blender, and I happen to be quite good at that. Those who have been around longer than you may be able to tell you about it, because I did occasionally post examples here and elsewhere. So excuse me if I refrain from proving my skills yet again just to make an impression on a newbie.

You don't use the appearance editor to make shapes. That explains why you think it's nothing.

Thanks for making my point.

For people like you, the word "easy" means "someone else does it."

The fact that you do something else entirely doesn't have any relevance.

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Ossian wrote:

For people like you, the word "easy" means "someone else does it."

I didn't say it's easy. I said it lacks originality, which is a key requirement for copyright.

The whole easy vs. hard argument is a distraction that you and Clarissa brought up. You think if something is just difficult and time-consuming enough, it automatically qualifies for copyright protection. You are wrong.

What you guys are doing in the appearance editor is basically solving a puzzle. You push sliders back and forth to find a configuration that doesn't suck from your point of view. That is a challenge, no doubt, but it is not artistic, because you are moving on rails and your choices are finite. Your artistic freedom in the appearance editor is zero. You will never escape Linden Lab's predefined morph targets, which are copyrighted just like the base mesh. No matter how long and hard you push the sliders around, the avatar's shape will never be your intellectual property.

And since the shape can't be your property, you can't call it "stealing" if others re-use it.

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