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Pazzo Pestana

No Mod Shapes in the Age of Mesh ... Why??

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What on earth do shape designers have to gain from making a shape no mod, especially in the age of mesh??? One size no longer fits all, regardless of how many sizes of a mesh clothing object are included in a purchase.  I was puzzled when I saw no mod sculpty objects begin to appear in the outfits of female friends - again, what's to gain from making a clothing item unwearable??  With mesh and the cost of mesh, the point seems to be even more acute!

I'm interested in fnding male shapes capable of being modified to fit mesh clothing and made taller so my nose is at least level with that of a 2.3m woman in high heels and not buried in her cleavage ... at least until we're in a more secluded place... ;))

If there are shape stores with such items - modifiable, expandable male shapes - I'd like to know.

 

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yep but it is always possible to find full perm shapes or ask  creator to do it customly with full perm or mod perm, but it will deffer in price of course)

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not everyone, in fact not most people, have the skill, tools, knowledge, time, and wish to spend that time to create everything from scratch. I know I don't. But I do like to tweak bits here and there, especially as the average SL shape is terrible. Way too tall, oversized body parts (especially breasts, butt, hands and feet), etc., and that includes many commercially available ones.

Got lucky a friend turned out to be a designer of shapes and made me a custom one with mod rights I only had to tweak a little bit.

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Pazzo Pestana wrote:

What on earth do shape designers have to gain from making a shape no mod, especially in the age of mesh??? One size no longer fits all, regardless of how many sizes of a mesh clothing object are included in a purchase.  I was puzzled when I saw no mod sculpty objects begin to appear in the outfits of female friends - again, what's to gain from making a clothing item unwearable??  With mesh and the cost of mesh, the point seems to be even more acute!

I'm interested in fnding male shapes capable of being modified to fit mesh clothing and made taller so my nose is at least level with that of a 2.3m woman in high heels and not buried in her cleavage ... at least until we're in a more secluded place...
;)
)

If there are shape stores with such items - modifiable, expandable male shapes - I'd like to know.

 

Why change yourself to fit others expectations? This is Secondlife, YOUR Secondlife! Be the avatar you want to be. I am 6.4 Feet tall. Yes, I come up to most womens boobs. But the ones I find that are my size are fun and open and a blast to be around. Most of the amazonian women are the ones that demand men to be 3M tall and sliders to the max.. superficial at best.

Until mesh is able to fit the av and not the other way around, I wont buy it. I made my shape. I don't want to mod my shape to fit the clothing. I want to look like me, not their ideal male.

Be yourself.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

 

Most of the amazonian women are the ones that demand men to be 3M tall and sliders to the max.. superficial at best.

As a side note about the amazonian women, very tall and often thin bee waisted, huge butted and huge breasted: They often have AOs which (for some reason) drive me absolutely crazy while looking at them. lol

/me thinks they might actually be men trying to appear as "super hot" women... :smileytongue:

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Every non-mesh shape in SL starts out as the shape that pops up when you select "New Shape" in your inventory. The sliders that edit it in your viewer are the only tools shape "creators" use. If you choose to pay for a shape you are only paying for the experience and aesthetic ability of the person who you bought it from. Try creating a new shape for yourself and editing it to your liking.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

 

Try creating a new shape for yourself and editing it to your liking.

And Pazzo, it is not very difficult task, it just requires patience and some knowledge of correct human proportions.  It might not come right at once, but there is no hurry.  One can always do more adjustments little by little later on. 

 

When you create your own shape, it really is unique - your creation.  It's very likely that nobody will have exactly the same one.  There is also a reward: you feel satisfaction of your own creation if you succeed in making the shape a nice one. :smileyhappy:

The picture below is for female shape, but the length proportions of the body parts are pretty much the same for male shape.

 

Ideal-female-proportions.jpg

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Isn't the real question why did they release mesh no mod in this age of computing?

We are all limping because of this neglect.

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Pazzo Pestana wrote:

What on earth do shape designers have to gain from making a shape no mod, especially in the age of mesh??? One size no longer fits all, regardless of how many sizes of a mesh clothing object are included in a purchase.  I was puzzled when I saw no mod sculpty objects begin to appear in the outfits of female friends - again, what's to gain from making a clothing item unwearable??  With mesh and the cost of mesh, the point seems to be even more acute!

I'm interested in fnding male shapes capable of being modified to fit mesh clothing and made taller so my nose is at least level with that of a 2.3m woman in high heels and not buried in her cleavage ... at least until we're in a more secluded place...
;)
)

If there are shape stores with such items - modifiable, expandable male shapes - I'd like to know.

 

Money, dear boy!

To someone with a little patience, a mod shape is effectively copiable, and the copy is completely untraceable. Shape designers, like anyone else, don't want to give away their IP to anyone who wants to come along and rip off their designs. So it's very common for shapes to be sold no-mod.

That said, there are places selling mod shapes - often at a higher price, alongside no-mod versions.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Pazzo Pestana wrote:

What on earth do shape designers have to gain from making a shape no mod, especially in the age of mesh??? One size no longer fits all, regardless of how many sizes of a mesh clothing object are included in a purchase.  I was puzzled when I saw no mod sculpty objects begin to appear in the outfits of female friends - again, what's to gain from making a clothing item unwearable??  With mesh and the cost of mesh, the point seems to be even more acute!

I'm interested in fnding male shapes capable of being modified to fit mesh clothing and made taller so my nose is at least level with that of a 2.3m woman in high heels and not buried in her cleavage ... at least until we're in a more secluded place...
;)
)

If there are shape stores with such items - modifiable, expandable male shapes - I'd like to know.

 

Why change yourself to fit others expectations? This is Secondlife, YOUR Secondlife! Be the avatar you want to be. I am 6.4 Feet tall. Yes, I come up to most womens boobs. But the ones I find that are my size are fun and open and a blast to be around. Most of the amazonian women are the ones that demand men to be 3M tall and sliders to the max.. superficial at best.

Until mesh is able to fit the av and not the other way around, I wont buy it. I made my shape. I don't want to mod my shape to fit the clothing. I want to look like me, not their ideal male.

Be yourself.

I'm lost (and also clueless) on the new mesh thing....

Are you saying that if I buy mesh clothing, I will have to modify my shape to fit it?  If so, why??

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Love Leonoase wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Pazzo Pestana wrote:

What on earth do shape designers have to gain from making a shape no mod, especially in the age of mesh??? One size no longer fits all, regardless of how many sizes of a mesh clothing object are included in a purchase.  I was puzzled when I saw no mod sculpty objects begin to appear in the outfits of female friends - again, what's to gain from making a clothing item unwearable??  With mesh and the cost of mesh, the point seems to be even more acute!

I'm interested in fnding male shapes capable of being modified to fit mesh clothing and made taller so my nose is at least level with that of a 2.3m woman in high heels and not buried in her cleavage ... at least until we're in a more secluded place...
;)
)

If there are shape stores with such items - modifiable, expandable male shapes - I'd like to know.

 

Why change yourself to fit others expectations? This is Secondlife, YOUR Secondlife! Be the avatar you want to be. I am 6.4 Feet tall. Yes, I come up to most womens boobs. But the ones I find that are my size are fun and open and a blast to be around. Most of the amazonian women are the ones that demand men to be 3M tall and sliders to the max.. superficial at best.

Until mesh is able to fit the av and not the other way around, I wont buy it. I made my shape. I don't want to mod my shape to fit the clothing. I want to look like me, not their ideal male.

Be yourself.

I'm lost (and also clueless) on the new mesh thing....

Are you saying that if I buy mesh clothing, I will have to modify my shape to fit it?  If so, why??

Rigged mesh stretches itself to fit the av skeleton as best it can, but can't otherwise be edited (by end-users). It basically takes height, width, limb lengths and other linear body proportions into account. When it works, it works well, smoothly deforming and following the body as you sit, bend and turn.

As I've discovered, it tends not to fit curvier avs very well unless specifically designed to do so. Whereas (for example) altering arm-length will affect a mesh garment sleeve length, changing bodyfat or muscles won't affect the sleeve width. So certain avs simply won't fit in certain mesh outfits.

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Pazzo (nice name by the way!) stop by my store. Half of the shapes are male and all of the shapes are modify, copy, no transfer and free for personal use.

 

Just please everyone don't 'steal' or put your own name on my work, because it IS work, that includes making a few tweaks and calling it yours.

 

That's the only part about it being modify that I hate. I wish the slider numbers were invisible.

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Coby Foden wrote:

As a side note about the amazonian women, very tall and often thin bee waisted, huge butted and huge breasted: They often have AOs which (for some reason) drive me absolutely crazy while looking at them. lol

/me thinks they might actually be men trying to appear as "super hot" women...
:smileytongue:

/me loves her butt & boobs, and am NOT a man, tyvm! :matte-motes-wink-tongue:   I also don't use an AO.  Hate em.  The sexy walk is enough for me.

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Naughty Caramel wrote:

 

/me loves her butt & boobs, and am NOT a man, tyvm! :matte-motes-wink-tongue:   I also don't use an AO.  Hate em. The sexy walk is enough for me.

sorrysmil.gif. . . . .     funnysmiley124.gif

 

:smileywink:

 

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Thanks, everybody, for the great comments!  I agree with Darkfire in principle but we have to watch ourselves in SL and I like to watch something pleasing.  The magic of SL is that we're not locked into our RL selves but can change things.  As for mesh, I'm tired of the horribly deformed legs that pants have given us for SLyears and like smoother look of mesh pants.  I'm sure women are tired of the standard SL skirt butt, too.

Body Doubles has been providing a no-mod shape along with a mod/copy shape for SLyears.  So, I'll keep looking.

Thanks!

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I didn't say to make your av a copy of your RL. I said make your av what you want it to be. i am not a perfect hard body in RL. LMAO. But i did use  this to make Drake one.

prop_male.jpg

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No Mod shapes, as annoying as they are, actually make more sense than creators shipping No Mod alpha layers with their mesh creations. For years it's been possible, on any texture-based item, to hide the texture preview box so that their precious texture doesn't show itself to Printscreen thieves. Makes me wonder if them doofuses realize how many people still use V1 viewers that don't have multiple layers.

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Kelli May wrote:

Shape designers, like anyone else, don't want to give away their IP to anyone who wants to come along and rip off their designs. So it's very common for shapes to be sold no-mod.

 

Does anyone else find it mindblowing that something as mundane as a slider setting passes off as "intellectual property" these days?

I'm curious. Has anyone ever been DMCA'ed for imitating someone else's shape?

Can I claim copyright on something like "New Shape" after modifying just one slider? How many sliders would I have to touch until the shape becomes "mine" and illegal for everyone else to use? Where do you guys draw the line? Can I still set sliders to 50 if someone else has a shape with those sliders set to 49, or am I already infringing?

Coming up next: copyright on RGB slider settings.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems that the word "intellectual" no longer means what it used to mean.

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:


Kelli May wrote:

Shape designers, like anyone else, don't want to give away their IP to anyone who wants to come along and rip off their designs. So it's very common for shapes to be sold no-mod.

 

Does anyone else find it mindblowing that something as mundane as a slider setting passes off as "intellectual property" these days?

I'm curious. Has anyone ever been DMCA'ed for imitating someone else's shape?

Can I claim copyright on something like "New Shape" after modifying just one slider? How many sliders would I have to touch until the shape becomes "mine" and illegal for everyone else to use? Where do you guys draw the line? Can I still set sliders to 50 if someone else has a shape with those sliders set to 49, or am I already infringing?

Coming up next: copyright on RGB slider settings.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems that the word "intellectual" no longer means what it used to mean.

Complaining that IP isn't 'intellectual' is just niggling over terminology. How about I call it "the right to not have your design ripped off"? If your skill is in creating shapes (or specifically, modifying the base shape into something more pleasing using the avatar sliders), you want to protect the ideas and forms that you've come up with, particularly if you want to make money from them. And people do sell shapes for surprising amounts.

And speaking of surprising amounts, the number of possilble slider settings on the female av is 101^89 or 2.424 x 10^178. That's a big number - the estimated number of atoms in the visible universe is only 10^80. While most of these would be weirdly distorted freakish shapes, the phase space of possible, usuable shapes is unimaginably large, and the chances of matching one, number for number, is greater-than-astronomically unlikely. RGB values, by comparison, have a 'mere' 17 million (-ish) possible values. 

Where do we guys draw the line? I don't know, I'm not one of those guys. You'd have to ask a "the right to not have your design ripped off" lawyer. 

 

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Kelli May wrote:

Complaining that IP isn't 'intellectual' is just niggling over terminology. How about I call it "the right to not have your design ripped off"? If your skill is in creating shapes (or specifically, modifying the base shape into something more pleasing using the avatar sliders), you want to protect the ideas and forms that you've come up with, particularly if you want to make money from them. And people do sell shapes for surprising amounts.

And speaking of surprising amounts, the number of possilble slider settings on the female av is 101^89 or 2.424 x 10^178. That's a big number - the estimated number of atoms in the visible universe is only 10^80. While most of these would be weirdly distorted freakish shapes, the phase space of possible, usuable shapes is unimaginably large, and the chances of matching one, number for number, is greater-than-astronomically unlikely. RGB values, by comparison, have a 'mere' 17 million (-ish) possible values. 

Where do we guys draw the line? I don't know, I'm not one of those guys. You'd have to ask a "
the right to not have your design ripped off" lawyer. 

 

 

I'd argue that creating a "pleasing" shape in the appearance editor is not an act of designing. You didn't create the mesh, you just modify its boob and butt sizes within the confines granted by LL. That is about as creative as choosing a colour for a prim. The human shape is not your "idea", you didn't invent the proportions that make it look "pleasing".

If your avatar's shape were your intellectual property, then copyright would grant you an exclusive right to use it. You would be entitled to DMCA or sue anyone choosing a similar shape for themselves, because they "rip you off" and "steal your idea". You would not only claim ownership of your particular set of slider settings but also of anything that comes close to it. And that reduces the number of possible non-infringing shapes in SL dramatically. So your argument about the virtually infinite number of slider combinations is flawed in multiple ways.

The number of distinctive avatar shapes in SL has nothing to do with the resolution of the appearance editor sliders. Not to mention that such a copyright on a human shape would extend beyond SL. You would have a copyright on the shape itself, not on the set of numbers used to achieve it in SL, because it is impossible to copyright numbers. Which is why I was asking whether shape ownership has ever been successfully enforced. That would be news to me.

If I upload an original texture and you take a copy of it and change a few pixels, it is still a copy of my texture. If I upload an original mesh and you take a copy of it and move a few of its vertices, it is still my mesh. So I'd argue that you can't claim exclusive ownership of any possible SL avatar shape any more than you can copyright a colour on a prim. You can't sue people because their avatar's butt has the same size as yours, sorry. And dragging a few sliders doesn't make you an artist deserving protection. Your avatar shape is fair game. The fact that someone may want to buy it doesn't make it copyrightable. People pay for all kinds of non-copyrightable services out of convenience. They go to restaurants and eat meals they could as well prepare at home. And they buy avatar shapes they could as well create by themselves.

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I've spent many hours over several years trying to make my own shapes, but I've never been able to make something as good as the shapes I've bought.

I judge a shape by the face, and there are many more sliders for the head and face than for the entire rest of the body. It's hard to make some thing remarkable, or even nice. At least for me, and as I've said, it's not for dint of trying.

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I have found that with fair amount of studying the human body and its proportions it's fairly easy to make a well proportioned avatar shape.  What I do is that I put a photo of a humand figure on prim, stretch the prim so that the photo looks the right height to what I am aiming my avatar to be.  I put the photo side by side on my avatar and start tweaking the shape using the photo as a reference.  Sometimes I align the photo centered on my avatar, and make the photo a bit transparent.  Then I can easily compare the avatar shape to the photo's shape.

For the face, I do agree, that is the most difficult part to get it nice looking.  It sure takes a lot of time, tweaking little by little the multiple sliders.  With persistence one can learn it though.  The skin plays a great role in how the face looks.  Exactly the same face shape can look radically different with different skins. 

The skin affects also the rest of the body how it will look.  Different skins have different highlights and shadows which will make exactly the same body shape to look somewhat different.

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