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LuciaRiley

Why do some clubs require proof of gender?

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isabellalecour wrote:

Already any benifit from selling $L should be declaired as income in US Fed taxs.

Not being a US resident, I'm unfamiliar with the US tax laws. I would assume that yes, any L$ converted back to $ (brought out from SL to a bank account or PayPal) would have to be declared as an income in my country. It's fairly common for larger SL creators to declare their incomes to tax services, since doing otherwise would be criminal.


isabellalecour wrote:

So why cross that line for RP'ed employment and ask for RL ID verfication?

This could happen, but I don't believe it ever would for 'unskilled' SL professions (I continue to reject your concept of RP'd employment). The SL market - at the end of the day - determines acceptable rules. A club that asked for RL ID would likely find itself without any staff. As I said earlier, there is no necessity for SL users to have a job in the first instance. At some level, buying L$ would be less hassle. That is a natural counter-weight to any business dictating rules to its staff.

Of course for many users who take on projects on a serious level, handing over some kind of RL ID is normal hiring practices. Especially for signing legally-binding contracts.

 


isabellalecour wrote:

 It' a job within the game. 

This is just another one of those blurring of the lines between RL and VR that needs to stay clear.

What happens in VR is not real life and not tangable in a RL sense.

It's too much like RL and that's the whole problem for me.

etc.

It seems to me that you're projecting your expectations of virtual worlds into the reality of virtual worlds. What to some people is a game, is to others a very serious game of balancing income streams. As I said before, I can only recommend further reading.

 

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:

Would rock if SL "jobs" had to pay minimum wage !! Most people's income would increase by an order of magnitude!

This here is your Straw Man Argument.


JeanneAnne wrote:

Why not verify the race of "employees" too .. so that racists wouldnt have to cyber with ppl they hate? Or make sure none of the "escorts" are overweight .. Wouldn't it sukk to be a perv cybering with an obese person ?!? I mean .. if we're going to "verify" gender ~or pretend to~ in order to pander to homophobes & transphobes .. Why not pander to every & all prejudice? Why discriminate?

And this is what's known as a Slippery Slope Argument.

 

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>>This here is your Straw Man Argument.<<

Club hires a DJ for a two hour set .. @ the end of the set she has L$700 in her tip jar. That's what? Less than US$3, right? US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. If SL employment constituted a "real" job.. as you contend ..  the club "owner" would have to make up the difference outuv pocket, wouldn't they? How is this a "Straw Man" argument?

>>And this is what's known as a Slippery Slope Argument<<

I don't think its fair to discriminate on the basis of gender alone. A john that cares about the gender of the person he's pretending to have sex with online might also resent that person's ethnicity. I think that race should also be "verified." That way the perv never has to worry that hes having virtual cybersex with whites, or blacks, or Asians .. or whoever it is he hates. Isn't that only fair? I think it is .. I think that you need to "verify" that you arent an XY "woman" with androgen insensitivity syndrome Freya. Or that you dont have an XO or XXY karyotype. How awful it would be to cyber with you if you were one of those ppl  !!!

Jeanne

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Also the whole assumption that if you do not voice or cam verify means you're a guy is kind of not logical either.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

 

My problem with it is that its a role play, not real sex.

Jeanne

That is just your opinion that it is not "real" and passing judgement on those who do enjoy cyber sexual activity.

If cyber sexual activity is both satisfying and enjoyable for two (or more) people why isn't it "real?"  Maybe it isn't your cup of tea which is perfectly fine but there are people for whom it is a wonderful experience.

If it is real (and I agree that for many it is), it is real sex between real cybernetic creatures. Those are the sex they are, male, female, shemale, whatever. The person behind the keyboard controlling that cybercreature is thus of no relevance (even less so when using talking genitals, all the rage I've heard).

At least that's my opinion. We're seeing people with tails and cat ears, wonder if that club would also require you to verify you really have those rl :)

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>>>>But nowhere have I seen that by doing these subjective verifications that it will result in more $L's in anyone's pocket.<<

>>Seems to me like its costing them $L .. by alienating ppl who resent bigotry.

otoh it may bring in bigots and who knows, there may be enough of those out there to more than offset the losses.

>>>>Now, isn't requesting RL infomation against TOS?<<

>>Good point! They probably get around a ToS violation on some technicality but they sure violate the intent & spirit of the ToS.

It's a free exchange of information. They aren't forcing you, you are giving consent. What would be a TOS breach for them is to divulge chatlogs (including voice chat) to 3rd parties without prior consent from you.

This is the same as with using RLV to control others wearing a relay. By wearing the relay in auto mode you consent to being so controlled.

There may be etiquette or sim rules about what can be done to those wearing relays, that their stated limits must be observed, but there's no rule in the TOS about that as it is solely between citizens.

>>>> I just stay away from joining groups and clubs that require such identification..<<

>>Me too. Let em cater to bigots if they want .. but who wants to hang out in a club fulluv bigots??

other bigots?

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>>otoh it may bring in bigots and who knows, there may be enough of those out there to more than offset the losses.<<

Yeah jwenting .. Youre right .. prolly does bring in enuf bigots to offset losses from unprejudiced ppl .. Judging by this forum theres more hateful ppl in SL than regular ppl

>>It's a free exchange of information. They aren't forcing you, you are giving consent. What would be a TOS breach for them is to divulge chatlogs (including voice chat) to 3rd parties without prior consent from you.
This is the same as with using RLV to control others wearing a relay. By wearing the relay in auto mode you consent to being so controlled.
There may be etiquette or sim rules about what can be done to those wearing relays, that their stated limits must be observed, but there's no rule in the TOS about that as it is solely between citizens.<<

I think youre right again .. bigotry isnt against the ToS so long as its consensual .. 1 thing about divulging chat logs, personal info, etc., to 3rd parties is that its only a ToS violation if you do it in a LL owned venue: in SL or this forum .. Do it in FB or somewhere & thers nothing LL can do about it

Jeanne

 

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Venus Petrov wrote:

I think this thread has gone way past the OPs original question.

yeah Venus .. youre prolly right .. has been interesting tho .. & hasnt strayed far off topic .. It's interesting to see how different ppl have different opinions about gender verification in clubs .. & how strongly they express those opinions .. i hope no1 has gotten all offended but unless passion is felt & given voice .. a thread becomes boring .. Best wishes !!

Jeanne

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JeanneAnne wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote:

I think this thread has gone way past the OPs original question.

yeah Venus .. youre prolly right .. has been interesting tho .. & hasnt strayed far off topic .. It's interesting to see how different ppl have different opinions about gender verification in clubs .. & how strongly they express those opinions .. i hope no1 has gotten all offended but unless passion is felt & given voice .. a thread becomes boring .. Best wishes !!

Jeanne

Well, one can always start another thread (under General Discussions, perhaps) to go into related issues.

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While I personally think it's dumb that some people need to have their little "verification" in order to fool around with someone in a virtual world, I do respect their right to choose not to in the absense of that. I also don't mind that clubs like this exist in SL, because it's a good thing. Gives these types of residents a place to get their verified fix, and also gives me a handy landmark to give out every time one of them doesn't respect *my* right not to voice, or *my* right to rule them out completely because they want or need such a thing. Street goes both ways...

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Dana Hickman wrote:

While I personally think it's dumb that some people need to have their little "verification" in order to fool around with someone in a virtual world, I do respect their right to choose not to in the absense of that. I also don't mind that clubs like this exist in SL, because it's a good thing. Gives these types of residents a place to get their verified fix, and also gives me a handy landmark to give out every time one of them doesn't respect *my* right not to voice, or *my* right to rule them out completely because they want or need such a thing. Street goes both ways...

It is dumb honestly. And you also don't know how long, and if you;ll like working with the staff at that said club. I had a job and I worked with the most unfriendly co-owner / owner in all of SL. I didn't have to verify anything, but it still was useless to even apply there. :<

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LuciaRiley wrote:
It is dumb honestly. And you also don't know how long, and if you;ll like working with the staff at that said club. I had a job and I worked with the most unfriendly co-owner / owner in all of SL. I didn't have to verify anything, but it still was useless to even apply there. :<


 That happens when people who should not be 'the boss' are given the opportunity to buy their way into being a boss, but that isn't restricted to clubs like these because it happens everywhere in SL. I think the point is there's no doubt that verify clubs like this one take advantage of *mostly* mens fears of getting played for a fool by another guy.. and I get that. I can imagine how crappy my RL BF would feel if he was into SL and had something like that happen to him, but i really can't give a club any kind of kudos for preying on their fear of such a thing just to make a buck. It's a false sense of security they're selling, but that also may be enough of an assurance for some, so who am I to question the validity of such a club if it helps some people get over their hangups? There's always new and better places to work for, and certainly ones that don't infringe on ones own personal SL boundaries.

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Storm Clarence wrote:

I went to a gay bar one time and they asked me for proof of gender so I showed them.  They said it was not enough
:|

Lmao.. at least they didn't tell you your proof was expired... or look at it for a moment, then say "Oh that does look like you, doesn't it?"

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Dana Hickman wrote:


Storm Clarence wrote:

I went to a gay bar one time and they asked me for proof of gender so I showed them.  They said it was not enough
:|

Lmao.. at least they didn't tell you your proof was expired... or look at it for a moment, then say "Oh that
does
look like you, doesn't it?"

When I suggested that 'Big Ben' was just a clock, they laughed.

 

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LuciaRiley wrote:

"  ALL escorts at [club name]-  will need to verify they're female by speaking/
cam with [club owner]
via SL Voice/Skype/etc. before being hired.  " <-- Is this because they are sexist,
or just..some other reason
?

 

 

i'm gonna say because they want to see some nekkidness... hehehe

i've met a lot of club owners that made clubs just because they thought it would be instant harem time lol

 

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The arguments in this thread make me wonder... Someone that hates gay people is a homophobe and/or bigot.

What do we call the person that apparently hates heterosexual people?

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Gadget Portal wrote:

The arguments in this thread make me wonder... Someone that hates gay people is a homophobe and/or bigot.

What do we call the person that apparently hates heterosexual people?

heteromisimia? if so .. heteromisimus ??

Jeanne

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Because of scammers, I don;t know if this is the right name for it, have ever heard british news about a girl names Gemma, she posed as a male and molested young women, she disguised herself as a boy to date and ... no need for details I guess, I hope you get the picture now  :matte-motes-bashful:

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In my first week in SL I was trying to meet people.  I went and watched ad ad a decent conversation with a nice lady. When I tipped her it said you sent monTy to Barry something.  I felt tricked and betrayed.  Be honest is all I say... No problem with the check..

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