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Poser Models for mesh shapes?


Naminestolenheart
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Most likely the answer is no.

Even if the DAZ license would allow you to upload the model to SL for your personal use (unlikely), or to use it in a maschinima production for example, there would likely still be a conflict with the rights you have to grant LindenLabs to use your uploaded content in their own advertisments.

Selling the shapes/models will be a definate nono.

The only way to get a definitive answer, would be to email DAZ support and explaining your case and intended usage to them. Be sure to include a copy of the Secondlife Terms of Service if you do. Also keep in mind that you would have to go through all of this for every piece of clothing, skin, props etc. that you intend to use within Secondlife.

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NO. I can't emphasise that clearly enough. Don't even consider it.

If you attempt bringing any licensed content such as DAZ figures and related clothing items, props etc into SL, you are immediately breaking the licence terms you agreed to when you first purchased them. READ the licence terms ALWAYS.

Being familiar with the DAZ and Poser related community over a number of years, I can pretty much guarantee that any attempt to bring any of that content into SL or similar is an instant violation of the user licences. You risk being stomped on HARD - I know that DAZ are stringent about protecting their IP, which is fully understandable - and if you bring any content like that into SL, you can be pretty much guaranteed that a DAZ/Poser user will instantly recognise them and report accordingly. JUST DON'T DO IT.

Not to mention the fact that content designed for Poser and DAZ Studio is intended for heavy-duty RENDERING of images and rendered animations. The meshes are FAR too heavily detailed for SL's realtime environment. It would be easier to model something from scratch than it would be to decimate highly detailed models such as these, especially considering you would need to re-rig and redo the UV maps from scratch as well.

Sorry if I am dashing any of your hopes here, but I feel it my duty as a responsible mesh creator to state this clearly. The trouble you potentially face by doing this isn't worth the risk, not to mention being totally against TOS and the actual mesh licence conditions. DAZ would come down on you like a ton of bricks if you violate their user agreements in this manner - you are guaranteed of that.

It's far safer (and far more satisfying) to create your OWN content from scratch, with your own hands.

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Naminestolenheart wrote:

Well they did have a skin converter so you can conver their skins to sl format, so why can't the samething apply for meshes?

That skin converter heavily down-samples the DAZ-based skin, resulting in a much lower resolution skin in SL, and is still legal to use only if the creator of the particular skin allows it, which most don't. If a similar downsampling program was available for the DAZ figures, the results would be severely downgraded, and not anywhere near what you would hope for, even if you had a figure to convert that was licensed in a way that would allow it.

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DAZ Studio has some game licenes for some of their content, and while it may be something you could explore, my understanding is that you will get a rather low resolution character at the end of the license. It is expensive too and there are some requirements to size of company for you to be able to purchase one if you otherwise qualify.

See http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=12479 as one example of such a license.  

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Even if the license wrangling was completely ignored, you shouldn't import ANY Poser / DAZ content into Second Life. Why? Because it's meant for CGI and still image rendering, NOT a real-time environment like SL. Those models are very high poly and are completely unsuitable. Your import costs will be high, your land impact will be insane if you ever try to rez it on the ground and you will be a walking framerate disaster.

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Naminestolenheart wrote:

ok, so it's not a good idea, I was just curious and I'm intrested in making mesh shapes. I thought would be nice to experiment with.

As has already been said, you can't do that with Daz models. Even if you buy their gaming licenses, it isn't meant for a situation where you would sell copies of their model. The purpose for that license is say you need a main character model for your first person shooter Unity game.

If you don't want to learn how to make a model from scratch, I'd suggest checking out the Makehuman project. They have a license that allows you to use their base model (not their data files) for commercial purposes if you give them attribution.

Site Link: http://www.makehuman.org/

Their License: http://www.makehuman.org/node/320

 

Edit: Keep in mind this is not a game ready model. You will have to do some work taking the polycount down to something appropriate for SL.

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Naminestolenheart wrote:

Actually I didn't want to resell them, I wanted to use them for personal use, like having  a unique new shape for myself.  and by the way thank you for the links.  

You're welcome.

You should probably contact the company directly and ask about using it in SL for just your personal avatar. 

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Naminestolenheart wrote:

Can you use your favorite poser models and make them into mesh shapes in sl?

 

People will hate me for saying this, but the answer is: Yes, if you rebuild the topology from scratch (which is what you have to do anyway to get a SL-friendly polygon count). The Victoria mesh is copyrighted, but there is no way to copyright the various human shapes it can be morphed into. Since Victoria resembles a generic realistic (i.e. non-stylized) female human body, no one can stop you from creating a mesh that resembles Victoria in some way or another, e.g. by modeling on top of the original model. In fact it will be impossible to prove that you did. Just don't copy any parts from the original mesh.

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So it's alright if  I modeled on top of the original model, and create a lower poly version of the mesh as long as I don't use any parts of the orginal? I would probably use a different face than the orginal model has, by finding a photo reference with similar features as her or I would draw my own references by hand and scan them into my pc.  But thanks for the info hopefully it works.

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You just said it yourself..the MESH is copyrighted...I think you'll have a hard time explaining how you came up with the same topology from scratch considering the enormous amount of faces. Even a different topology built around the original mesh would be a violation I think..but then it's up to DAZ to prove you used the Victoria as a blueprint..which is 100% impossible to prove unless they see you copying it. That makes it a safe thing to do, but not exactly legal. It's like running a red light in the middle of the desert I suppose. No harm done and no witnesses...

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Modeling realistic human bodies from scratch is extremely difficult, if not impossible, because the brain is so sensitive to even the smallest errors. The results will always look slightly stylized in one way or another. In order to leap across the uncanny valley, professional studios apply laser scanners and similar technology on living human beings. The output of the scanning process is a point cloud representing the body surface very accurately, and the studio's modelers then create the final mesh on top of that, all quads, with proper edge flow etc.

By treating the Victoria mesh like another point cloud and modeling on top of that, you eliminate all the creative, original aspects of DAZ's work and replace them with your own. It only works here because the shape you reproduce, a female human body, is not copyrightable by itself. So this is a very special case. I would not recommend this technique to reproduce anything else, e.g. game assets, because that would certainly be infringing.

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If you trace something, you are copying it, I would think it's as simple as that. The only person with any rights on the shape of Victoria is "Victoria" herself. She apparantly gave DAZ the opportunity to use her shape as a base, that indeed doesn't mean DAZ can copyright the shape. But they do have the rights on the topology of the mesh and on the files containing that topology. Again, it's impossible for DAZ to see if someone traced their model if the topology is different, so it's an academic question regarding that. Still I am convinced you are not alllowed to trace anything without permission.

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Again, it's impossible for DAZ to see if someone traced their model if the topology is different, so it's an academic question regarding that.

Actually that is a very central question to determine whether the shape of a model is sufficiently original for copyright to apply.

For example, if you trace a model of Mickey Mouse this way, it will be very easy for Disney to prove that you did.

So if DAZ has trouble proving that you traced Victoria, it's because there is nothing original about Victoria's shape that persists in your own mesh. And that means your mesh is not infringing.

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Yes and that is why the Victoria shape can never be copyrighted, I thought we agreed on that. But this only means you are allowed to model the original, breathing "Victoria", as long as you have her permission. It still doesn't mean you can trace the 3d object DAZ made.

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A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more pre-existing works [...]

Copyright Registration for Derivative Works

I'm not 100% sure, but this could very well apply to tracing the DAZ model. I found this though:

"Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed."

Ideas, Methods, or Systems

If the topology of a 3d model is a "method of operation", DAZ doesn't have any claims on the model at all.

The fact whether you intend to resell or distribute it makes no difference, you hand it over to LL by uploading the object. Even keeping it to yourself entirely is not allowed (assuming DAZ has rights on the model).

It would be impossible for DAZ to recognise their model if you use a different topology ofcourse. That's why I mentioned the running the red light in the desert, illegal, but impossible to prove. DAZ does not have copyrights on "a female figure with two legs, two arms, a head etc..."

It's a big grey area though, since you are allowed to build clothing around Victoria and sell that. So let's think outside of the box and build a skin wrap suit for Victoria by tracing the shape and applying a skin texture to it...hmmm..no idea how that would hold up in court...:)

I'm not sure if this post was very helpful, this is a very complex legal subject. The only way to be sure not to infringe is to either ask DAZ or don't trace at all.

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  • 6 months later...

Okay, just to clear this up.  I contacted Poser World and they replied that their Poser / DAZ studio content is royalty free for commercial use.  The real issue, as has already been mentioned, is that the content is too complicated for SL at the moment.  However, you can tweak textures to use in your SL creations.  As per this thread from Daz 3d.

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/tc2-second-life-avatar

Please don't ask me how, I'm new to all this, and that's how I ended up in this thread, I was actually looking for answers.  LOL

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YT Upsilon wrote:

Okay, just to clear this up.  I contacted Poser World and they replied that 
their Poser / DAZ studio content is royalty free for commercial use.  The real issue, as has already been mentioned, is that the content is too complicated for SL at the moment.  However, you can tweak textures to use in your SL creations.  As per this thread from Daz 3d.

 

Please don't ask me how, I'm new to all this, and that's how I ended up in this thread, I was actually looking for answers.  LOL

I'm not sure how the relationship between GMP Services (the owner of Poser World) and Smith Micro Systems (The owner of Poser) or DAZ Productions (The owner of DAZ 3D) is, but it's pretty clear they are not the same.

So although their work may be royalty free after purchase or free download, that says absolutely nothing about the content of either Poser or DAZ.

If you want a model to make mesh avatars and you don't want to build from scratch, a good option is MakeHuman. From their blog: "Content created with MakeHuman is licensed under the CC0 license". The model isn't nearly as polygon heavy as the Victoria model and looks very clean. I suggest you replace the teeth and eyes though.

 

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