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Does second life need to be governed?


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I'd defend your position but you'd say I was being patronising so I'll just provide an example to support it:

The major difference between copying code, music, etc. and taking a bicycle, computer or other tangible item is exactly that - it is copied, not taken.  Therefore no-one is denied its use.  From a utilitarian view "the greatest good" is increased by copying and thus maximising the availability of such intangibles.

(I'll leave it to you to explain how the greater good is served by having starving programmers and composers hanging around making the place look untidy)

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

I'd defend your position but you'd say I was being patronising so I'll just provide an example to support it:

The major difference between copying code, music, etc. and taking a bicycle, computer or other tangible item is exactly that - it is copied, not taken.  Therefore no-one is denied its use.  From a utilitarian view "the greatest good" is increased by copying and thus maximising the availability of such intangibles.

(I'll leave it to you to explain how the greater good is served by having starving programmers and composers hanging around making the place look untidy)

I was thinkinga bout this the other day .. Was thinking that making it so an item in SL couldnt be copied & shared was like an animal breeder only selling neutered animals 

If i acquire something in SL why shouldnt i be able to copy it & share it w/ others for free? Only because the person who made it is selfish & wants to be the only one who can distribute copies of it for profit .. thats why !! Code is readily replicable .. so why artificially make it difficult to replicate ?!? Only due to the greed of the scripter .. apparently .. This is just 1 example of capitalist pathology.. there are many more: planned obsolescence, non-interchangeability of components, brand redundancy, the engineering of faux need ........ & on & on .. Yet ppl defend this craziness as if their well-being depended on it !! Guess they've been indoctrinated to believe it does

Jeanne

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:


PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

I'd defend your position but you'd say I was being patronising so I'll just provide an example to support it:

The major difference between copying code, music, etc. and taking a bicycle, computer or other tangible item is exactly that - it is copied, not taken.  Therefore no-one is denied its use.  From a utilitarian view "the greatest good" is increased by copying and thus maximising the availability of such intangibles.

(I'll leave it to you to explain how the greater good is served by having starving programmers and composers hanging around making the place look untidy)

I was thinkinga bout this the other day .. Was thinking that making it so an item in SL couldnt be copied & shared was like an animal breeder only selling neutered animals 

If i acquire something in SL why shouldnt i be able to copy it & share it w/ others for free? Only because the person who made it is selfish & wants to be the only one who can distribute copies of it for profit .. thats why !! Code is readily replicable .. so why artificially make it difficult to replicate ?!? Only due to the greed of the scripter .. apparently .. This is just 1 example of capitalist pathology.. there are many more: planned obsolescence, non-interchangeability of components, brand redundancy, the engineering of faux need ........ & on & on .. Yet ppl defend this craziness as if their well-being depended on it !! Guess they've been indoctrinated to believe it does

Jeanne

 

Please feel free to put your thoughts on a pay per view basis. I for one wont object.

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JeanneAnne wrote:


Alak Dyrssen wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:


 Guess they've been indoctrinated to believe it does

Jeanne

 

Please feel free to put your thoughts on a pay per view basis. I for one wont object.

Case in point !!

Jeanne

 

You've got to admit it was funny though.  Well done Alak, I lol'd

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JeanneAnne
wrote
:

The
way
i
feela
bout
it
is
that
code
~
like
music
~
is
the
product
of
the
human
imagination
&
should
be
~
like
water
&
air
&
sunshine
~
absolutely
free
..
Products
of
the
human
imagination
belong
to
us
all
..
Since
it's
ours
to
begin
w
/
how
can
it
be
"
stolen
" ??
The
best
poets
&
musicians
&
artists
of
all
sorts
have
always
shared
their
work
freely
..
Once
greed
sets
in
the
'
product
' ~
whatever
it
is
~
becomes
cheapened
..
becomes
devalued
by
the
very
attempt
to
place
value
on
it
..
Good
code
like
good
art
of
every
sort
is
priceless
.. &
its
vain
to
try
&
place
a
price
on
the
priceless
..
The
commodification
of
our
common
inheritance
is
wrong
..
It's
an
artifact
of
the
pathological
socio
-
economic
system
that
oppresses
us
..
It's
our
duty
to
resist
&
subvert
this
sociopathic
socio
-
economic
system
in
the
attempt
to
get
out
from
under
it
..
If
you
have
talent
for
making
stuff
..
give
the
stuff
you
make
away
..
In
turn
,
take
what
you
need
~&
no
more
~
from
others
..
Reciprocate
..
Share
&
share
alike
..
Renounce
greed
..
Be
happy
:)

Jeanne

This is rich coming from someone who has admitted many times on this forum that  you create nothing in world because 'you don't like to" and are only here for fun, and yet you suck up whatever you can get your hands on for free and live like a parasite on the generosity of peopleI can see why you think SL is 'only a game' because all you do is game it.

A far as "take what you need ~& no more" , you violate your own philosophy by being here at allYou don't 'need' SL, its not a necessity yet you 'take it' all the time.

I also suggest you go back and read some history because your statement about poets, musicians, and artists always shared freely is flat out wrong and just another example of how you make up 'facts' and twist things to support your fairy tale thinking.

By your logic, everything that man has ever made or done should be free because its all the product of the human mindYet you don't work for free in RL as you have admitted that you did have a RL job at least once

About the only thing you contribute to the SL community is unintentional comedyThanks for the laugh!

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JeanneAnne wrote:

The way i feela bout it is that code ~like music~ is the product of the human imagination & should be ~like water & air & sunshine~ absolutely free .. Products of the human imagination belong to us all .. Since it's ours to begin w/ how can it be "stolen" ?? The best poets & musicians & artists of all sorts have always shared their work freely .. Once greed sets in the 'product' ~whatever it is~ becomes cheapened .. becomes devalued by the very attempt to place value on it .. Good code like good art of every sort is priceless .. & its vain to try & place a price on the priceless .. The commodification of our common inheritance is wrong .. It's an artifact of the pathological socio-economic system that oppresses us .. It's our duty to resist & subvert this sociopathic socio-economic system in the attempt to get out from under it .. If you have talent for making stuff .. give the stuff you make away .. In turn, take what you need ~& no more~ from others .. Reciprocate .. Share & share alike .. Renounce greed .. Be happy **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_woman-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":womanhappy:" title="Woman Happy" />

Jeanne

>>This is rich coming from someone who has admitted many times on this forum that  you create nothing in world because 'you don't like to" and are only here for fun, and yet you suck up whatever you can get your hands on for free and live like a parasite on the generosity of people.  I can see why you think SL is 'only a game' because all you do is game it.<<

So? Do I violate the ToS in any way by doing so? Do I do anything LL doesn't allow .. even encourage? Do I force ppl to be generous in any way? How is it "gaming" SL to do exactly what I'm able to do according to the way SL is set up?

>>I also suggest you go back and read some history because your statement about poets, musicians, and artists always shared freely is flat out wrong and just another example of how you make up 'facts' and twist things to support your fairy tale thinking.<<

I know plenty of musicians who play for the sheer joy of making music. Emily Dickinson is the greatest poet in the English language & she never sold a single poem. In fact, only a handful of her poems ever appeared in print during her lifetime. She included her best poetry in letters to friends, as gifts. History is replete with such examples of unselfish generosity. In contrast, "art" made to sell is compromised by market considerations & is crap compared to real art produced with love, to be enjoyed by all as freely as we breathe the same free air & enjoy the free sunshine. I would suggest that you project too much Amethyst ~that it's you who twists history according to your greed-infected mindset.

>>By your logic, everything that man has ever made or done should be free because its all the product of the human mind.<<

Exactly so. "From each according to ability, to each according to need." Greed is grounded in fear. I invite you to let go of your fear and to trust in the bounty of the universe to supply your every need. You will be much happier than you seem to be, I assure you! :)

>>About the only thing you contribute to the SL community is unintentional comedy.  Thanks for the laugh!<<

You're very welcome Amethyst. I seem to detect some sarcasm tho.. Whatever it is that has made you bitter wasn't my doing but you can blame me for it if it makes you feel better. I'd like to see you free your mind from its conditioning & be happy. You're worth the effort!! Bright blessings my friend...

Jeanne

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Kudos to you for your willingness to actually come in world and do the research as well as showing intellectual flexibility and an obvious grasp of what valid research is.  How refreshing! Too many student come to the forums that want us to do their work for them because they don't go in world at all.  They are also of the opinion that the small community here and the even smaller one that will answer their questions, form a sufficient population to validate whatever their thesis will be.  And when it is pointed out to them that their questions have no relation to SL, or show a complete misunderstanding of what SL really is, they ignore it.

I await your processing of what you have learned here so far and what you will learn in world, and the finalization of you questions.  I'll be glad to assist you when your ready here or in SL.

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Lucinda Bulloch wrote:

Don't see you as one of the bullies but I have not read the post, maybe you are I only remember the elite few like that Phil ,peter and digbert or ding bat, can't be assed to find out their names.

Well .. like i said in a post that disappeared .. ppl are cliquish .. These ppl are old friends or @ least are bonded by familiarity in this forum .. It's just ape nature for the regs to dogpile those of us who would challenge their presumptions .. I don't personally see it as bullying .. or if it is its no more than is to be expected .. I think the topic you introduced is interesting .. Please don't get upset w/ ppl for just being the way ppl are .. I'd like to see you sticka round & throw out more ideas for us to consider .. whether we agree w/ em all or not!

Jeanne

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Sy Beck wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:


No, Second Life doesn't need to be "governed."
Yes it does

The human spirit cries out for freedom.
And laws to protect that freedom

Real Life is already far to regulated & unfree
Maybe, depends on perspective, time and place

We go into SL in order to exercise complete freedom.
An over exaggeration as you signed a ToS to do so.

There is no "crime" in SL
Yes there is.

 ...there is nothing to steal or vandalize
Yes there is

Anyone can Role Play being a cop or dom or master or whatever .. & everyone else can simply ignore such control freaks.  
Yay a true fact!


Just have to say that I agree with Sy Beck on every one of his colored statements there.

Usually, libertarian types - the ones who want extreme liberty, want it for temselves.

Such liberty comes only from downpressing others. "Liberty" to do whatever you want results in power for the powerful and enslavement for everyone else.

Very rarely will they approach it from "what am I willing to give up, so that another can have the same benefits as me?"

 

A system needs equality, and the structures of checks, balances, and enforcement to ensure that equality - to keep the 'liberated' from excercising the freedom to destroy those under them.

Its why we (the USA) have things like the Civil Rights Act - something strongly opposed by LIbertarians, because it gets in the way of the liberty of the opporessor class.

 

This maps to SL just as it maps to RL. You need a governing system. You need rules, they are there to set out the rights that everyone is entitled to - to ensure those rights are equal. Government's role is to protect the people. You need policing. Policing is there to ensure the protections of the rules and government are carried out.

In SL, this is done through the Lindens and Support staff as the government. The ToS and Community Standards as the laws, and support tickets and abuse reports as the means of engaging the 'government' into a police body.

Without these... well, we know what happens without these. Read the forums for assorted complaints when griefers or scammers get out of hand. Read the merchant forums for when copytheft gets out of hand.

We all know exactly what happens when the policing in SL is not strong enough...

 

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if you actual want to do a study about people in sl then base it on stuff that is documented

a rich source of actual happenings are blogs

how people feel about what happened, how they reacted, what should be done, what could be done. stuff like that. at any given time is all in the various forums. both sl official and indie

is quite raw a lot of forum data. but is realtime data the forums. realtime within the window of the happening. is what research is about. sifting through all kinds of data with a open mind and then drawing evidential conclusions from it

+

one of the things that teachers often do is to make a hypothesis as a exercise for their students. what tends to happen is that students mostly try to proof it in the affirmative. which is not what the assignment actual is

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:


PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

I'd defend your position but you'd say I was being patronising so I'll just provide an example to support it:

The major difference between copying code, music, etc. and taking a bicycle, computer or other tangible item is exactly that - it is copied, not taken.  Therefore no-one is denied its use.  From a utilitarian view "the greatest good" is increased by copying and thus maximising the availability of such intangibles.

(I'll leave it to you to explain how the greater good is served by having starving programmers and composers hanging around making the place look untidy)

I was thinkinga bout this the other day .. Was thinking that making it so an item in SL couldnt be copied & shared was like an animal breeder only selling neutered animals 

If i acquire something in SL why shouldnt i be able to copy it & share it w/ others for free? Only because the person who made it is selfish & wants to be the only one who can distribute copies of it for profit .. thats why !! Code is readily replicable .. so why artificially make it difficult to replicate ?!? Only due to the greed of the scripter .. apparently .. This is just 1 example of capitalist pathology.. there are many more: planned obsolescence, non-interchangeability of components, brand redundancy, the engineering of faux need ........ & on & on .. Yet ppl defend this craziness as if their well-being depended on it !! Guess they've been indoctrinated to believe it does

Jeanne

 

Jeanne.jpg

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