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Mass banning from commercial land without no reason. Some thing good we should encurage in SL?


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i was just in a major group banning myself..only it is not from just one sim..

our group was  put on a black list and listed as griefers..so any person that wears this guys hud and comes acrossed any of our land or products or any of us..a warning goes out in their IM that we are griefers and belong to this griefer group..

that our land is dangerous and so are our products..LOL

the person doesn't like the group ..so he made a list and has tons of people on his hud being called griefers that he never even talked with our met..

it's not the first time and it's not the last..

the people that see in their chat that  messege from the hud can ban us till the cows come home..

it's their right no matter how wrong it feels..they don't even have to have a reason..

there is no wrong that they are doing..it may be childish and their business ethics are azz backwards.. but that doesn't make it wrong..

they are just listening to some asshat that made a hud and taking his word for it..thats their right..

 

 

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I suppose they can do what they want, but I don't really think what they are doing is right- I am banned from the same piece of land btw!

What I wonder though, is if that market's merchants know that affiliates of another market owner are being banned en masse? I am not just a merchant, I am also a shopper. If someone's main store is on that sim, they lose out because I cannot shop there.

I will add that there has never been any harassment on my part of the land owners or their merchants. While I had dealings with the land owners that ended on not so great terms, it was certainly not due to a lack of professionalism on my part. 

I understand that we are all in the same field, but some people apparently view this with more pettiness and competitiveness than others. 

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I would not belong to any group who has such a big issue with my membership in other groups. If they have a problem with competition, they should state in their group info before joining that they do not allow members to belong to competing groups. Sure, they might not get many takers, but at least they would be honest.

I will almost guarantee that the members have no idea this is going on. I didn't, until I joined the other group and got booted from a hunt in progress, had items from their sales area returned to me and lost the ability to post notices. No explanation, nothing. It wasn't until I got to be friends with the other group's owner that I found out what the hell had happened.

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Mac,

Try not to feel too bad about being excluded from there. Their market looks like a hobo camp under a bridge compared to the market who accepts you and your right to access other groups :)

They will drive themselves out of business soon enough with their pettiness and lack of good business sense + urban planning lol.

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I haven't checked out his ban list, but I do have a few people banned from my land as well. The thing is, they are only banned from my parcel. The land ajacent to mine contains a market with rentals. There are a few people banned there as well. People who have actually set foot on the land and caused problems while there.

What the land owner Mac is talking about does is ban people who are affiliated with someone she doesn't like from her entire land, including the market area, whether they have ever even been there or not. The real problem is that she is excluding potential customers from her renters for no reason. This is just bad business.

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That system sounds insane. Might be fine for use on personal land, like a home, but I would never use something like that in my business.

Sure, having some security when I'm not around would be nice, but the old fashioned Ban button seems to work fine. I can see people losing a lot of business if they use something like that on a commercial parcel, especially since some people will abuse it and just add a bunch of names.

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You know, I think something happens to some people after they join sl.  The anonymity and distance created by sitting behind a computer, often brings out the worst in some.

All of this he said she said, petty banning for no reason, 'drama' in general reminds me of high school.

I can understand some of what goes on in sl, the 20 something year old still living in mother's basement.  However, a lot of these folks are grown adults and some even professionals in the real world. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cutting loose and spreading your wings - expressing yourself, finding yourself, experiencing things that you would not do in rl.  But damn, reverting to teendom & adopting the attitudes of entitlement just because you are anoymous is almost laughable.  If it wasn't so pitiful.

 Oh sorry, I was posting in general here, not replying to you directly there Rosemaery :)

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<<But damn, reverting to teendom & adopting the attitudes of entitlement just because you are anoymous is almost laughable.  If it wasn't so pitiful.>>

Very true! I think we are all guilty of a little bit of childishness at times. I see where Mac is coming from. It's really upsetting that he is being excluded, as it was when it happened to me. I also get that it is the land owner's right to do whatever they want with the land they pay for. I wouldn't want LL dictating what you can do when you are paying $300 a month!



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Rival Destiny wrote:

You know, I think something happens to some people after they join sl.  The anonymity and distance created by sitting behind a computer, often brings out the worst in some.

All of this he said she said, petty banning for no reason, 'drama' in general reminds me of high school.

I can understand some of what goes on in sl, the 20 something year old still living in mother's basement.  However, a lot of these folks are grown adults and some even professionals in the real world. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cutting loose and spreading your wings - expressing yourself, finding yourself, experiencing things that you would not do in rl.  But damn, reverting to teendom & adopting the attitudes of entitlement just because you are anoymous is almost laughable.  If it wasn't so pitiful.

 Oh sorry, I was posting in general here, not replying to you directly there Rosemaery
:)

oh they exist offline as well...trust me on that LOL

and it's any age..being older doesn't change much on many..

offline or on..childish drama comes in all ages ..

ETS: Oops..my mistake..i think i had misunderstood what you were saying there..hehehe..you'll have to forgive me..mornings are like late at night for me.it's when i get home from work..so i am kind of wired and tired all at the same time hehehehe

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Got to page 5, couldn't be bothered any more.  No one has a 'right' to enter someone else's land in SL.

SL is subject to US, Californian and LL's rules.  If it is illegal under one of those jurisdictions to ban people because of race, for instance, then it is also illegal in SL.  You weren't banned because of race or anything else which the law protects, so your original point is invalid and the post is just drama.

No-one is saying you can't state your opinion.  You did; it's wrong as a matter of principle as well as fact and law.  All the rest is just verging on trolling.  Nice to see any thread get so much attention so quickly though ^^

[it's perfectly legal in the UK, at least, for a mall-owner to ban 'teenagers' or 'people wearing hoodies' even when that isn't "fair" to many people who meet the description but have never posed any risk/threat.  I'd see you as having fallen into that sort of group ban]

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Well Resident's are allowed to ban a person without any reason from A Land, or Sim, however the TOS/CS, and unofficial rules of the internet still do apply LOL.

Anyways I have had a similar issue in Second Life, I found myself banned from a region I had only visited one time, I never had any problems with the owner, or anyone related, and after finally contacting one of their people in charge they told me the ban was from another owner who previously owned the land which no longer exists in Second Life, and sold their company to another business which I Can't really give names of due to TOS. But anyways I believe I got unbanned from all the regions because it was obviously a mistake not sure if you have had a similar issue.

The problem however is when there is a Big Estate company who owns like over 200+ sims and they are renting land to other people, and one of their managers or owners issues a ban on your account/avatar for no reason at all that is what happend to me and it took a lot of checking out and getting hold of helpful admins from their company.

The problem I think that gets a person banned from these big companies sims, or Estates is griefers, people grief using your name, or spread rumors around pretending to be you, and then the Estate Managers/Owners isntantly ban a person who has never been on the sim before, or done anything and the user doesn't really find out until they try to teleport into a simulator who has rented a parcel there and get the region banned notice that is how I found out. Now if someone griefed a sim pretending to be me of theirs I wouldn't know because I don't have anything to do with griefers who just target random sims, or innocent people in Second Life, so maybe it did or didn't happen but it is a common thing going around, and I feel that sim moderators, and owners should be aware of the issue.

It isn't so bad if a renter wants to ban you from their rented region because they don't want you there, However fact is that on almost every region that I know I am banned from it is abusive moderators covering up illegal activiity such as CopyBotting,  or passing out stolen content so they ban me so I can't abuse report it. I did contact an Estate Company about this and they own well over 200+ sims but they told me they don't deal with the issue and report it to Linden Lab.

The problem is when you get a Manager who manages all of those 200+ regions to believe Drama, and ban your avatar, and your partner/friends from well over 200+ regions and it can effect you enjoying your Second Life/Shopping in Second Life lets say if it is a sim which you have never been to before, or one or more of your friends rent from the same company and you find yourself banned then I do believe that is wrong, but nothing Linden Lab will do sadly.

When it comes down to the issue,  Why does Second Life even have a Real Estate business  is what you really have to ask yourself is it really needed? And aren't there ways to solve some of these issues, I mean having over 1000+ Regions why would someone even need that many lol.

I don't go to many regions, but I can't imagine how many I might have been banned from due to these 3 griefers who run their little griefer RP groups, and like to spread rumors start drama, and grief people. If they don't want me on their own Region or Land I am fine with it, however I ask they don't do illegal crap because if any of my friends so much as tell me about it or I find out I will file an abuse report. And yes most griefers in Second Life rent from major Real Estate companies and cause problems for other people. Then of course there is the Drama issue where two residents rarely but sometimes you meet a friend who lives on the same region where another person doesn't like you and they just rent a parcel both of you are so they have to call the Sim Owner, or manager and complain when you are not even doing anything or even on the land they are renting that sometimes causes problems.

Either way these issues if you get a manager who doesn't know how to solve things espically for a big estate comapny it can create drama for a lot of people. I have seen people get banned from regions who really did nothing and then a few days later or something griefers came in and griefed the region, threatend disturbed the peace of course using proxies and then all of a sudden more people left and the owner lost money even some RP sims lost a lot of people because of drama, or griefer issues like this and bad choices. And just remember as the Rules of the Internet say, there is no such thing as Moderation enjoy your ban because there is no such thing as a real ban either espically in Second Life, or on forums. Now maybe before I became a Techy there was but after learning and researching yep no such thing.

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The issue is not nearly as far reaching as hundreds of sims, thank goodness!

It is a similar sitation though because the owner of the region has banned many people, simply for being in another group, without their renter's knowledge. The vendors on this land rent small parcels for their businesses, and I would not be happy to be one of them and find out that masses of people are banned from my sales area.

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yes they are. they worthless as well

every 2 or 3 years some skriptza, a legend in his own mind, comes up with the idea that they can save teh grid from all teh griffers and copybotters and wahtevs. like it hasnt been tried before. and even if it has then this time will be better bc the legend is awesome and has majik powahz

after scamming a whole bunch of people who dont know better into paying for it  then its FAIL. until the next skriptz legend comes along and we go thru it all over again 

+

security orb is ok to protect your own place. is the "system" ones that share that sux

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Well if it is the owner of the region aka the person listed in the Covenant the only thing I know you could try doing for sure is contact them and ask them what the problem is just do it nicely eventhough you might feel like biting some ears or something.

By owner of the region maybe it is someone renting the full simulator from a big estate company, and if this is the issue then you would have to contact one of the owners from the group or whoever is renting the land and ask them what the problem is just do it nicely eventhough you feel like biting some ears I have been in those problems before sometimes you get an answer sometimes you dont.

It could be that someone from a particular group is causing issues and sometimes an owner will ban anyone related to that group I know I have been there and done that but those groups no longer even exist in SL and half the people don't anymore so its dealt with wiped ban list problem solved.

But the only real way to know for sure is contacting the owner and asking them all I know hopefully they will be nice and tell you about it. I know that I am nice about issues or I try to be most of the time however some of my other friends not so nice and not the people anyone wants  to cross aka the though bodyguards who will throw you out the door without blinking an eye just hope you don't run into one of those.

But hey if it is just one region, not a bunch of regions I mean if you really don't care you could just avoid that one region, or of course just contact the owner and find out what is up. I have had issues with some owners before, some owners of some RP sims I know just really don't care about their reputations in SL, and neither do their so called bodyguards who couldn't even protect their members from some basic Lulz griefer attacks which btw their own members did this pretending to be me being angry at them and then their manager played the blame game talked trash about SL and it didn't go good. While one person told me maybe later in the future they will discuss or look into the issue, I seriously doubt they ever will, and all the problems over one person who wanted to cause drama and their friends who will listen one cat leads to another.

Also just so you know security orbs can be a big laugh easy to get around easy to grief or take down a region still if you are that type of griefer, I just do it manually remove all griefs in 10 seconds or less even if the entire region is filled and if I can't then it can't be done and I have to call LL if there is a issue beyond that no point in having an orb really. There are even ways to still crash a region even if you are banned and I wont go into details but it is using scripts.

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Personally, when I was banned/items returned from this region, I decided they could just bite me. I asked nicely for an explanation and never got one, so oh well!

The OP just found out he is banned, and is emotional about it. Understandable. We do know why the ban, he's just trying to make the point of, why do people have to be so petty?

I do feel for the members of that group who rent in their market. They might be wondering why their traffic numbers are low, and have no idea that the land owner has mass banned people. I sure would like to know if I was paying someone for land, if they are excluding potential customers for no reason.

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This all started because I went to a website....SL Hunts....I saw a Hunt I wanted to participate in....tried the LM and I found out I was banned from the Sim.  I went there with my biz alt to see if maybe something was wrong with teleporting.  She got there with no problem.  Now the issue is why was i banned?  And found out they are part of a certain group that my friend had issues with.  So I was banned because I am friends with who they don't like?  How silly is that?  But then Mac tried to go there as well and found himself banned as well because of association?

Well I then contacted the Creator of the Hunt and explained the situation.  And now....they won't be able to participate in the Hunt....she didn't like that they were keeping people from joining or participating in her Hunt.  So in turn they got what they deserved for being childish?

Yes it is frustrating when something happens for no reason......in my opinion yes we have a right to ban anyone for the right reason....even commercial.....but again for the RIGHT REASON.....not for petty bs.....especially a commercial sim.  I would never ban them from coming to my sim unless they were griefing.  Otherwise they are more than welcomed to visit:)

And Rosemary that shows you they are weak people that couldn't even answer an Im or explain why they threw you out of their group!

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I have two parcels on one sim. Sometimes, I like to walk from one parcel to the next. However, someone has banlines on their parcel right in my pathway. They have nothing rezzed on the ground, just a skybox. A very nice skybox. So I went into the skybox and hung around seeing if I would get ejected or something. No. 

So, I am banned from a parcel that is open public land that is along the pathway between two parcels that I own.

That bothers me. 

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I can understand your frustration.  However, I am not understanding how ban lines would encroach over any LL protected public land  I'm assuming this is what you mean by pathway.

Otherwise, the ban lines would be around a parcel that is owned by someone.

I really don't like the banlines myself, however, going into someone's private residence just to see if you would be ejected is very passive aggressisve & I would most likely have banned you as well.

tit for tat never works. 

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Charolotte Caxton wrote:

I have two parcels on one sim. Sometimes, I like to walk from one parcel to the next. However, someone has banlines on their parcel right in my pathway. They have nothing rezzed on the ground, just a skybox. A very nice skybox. So I went into the skybox and hung around seeing if I would get ejected or something. No. 

So, I am banned from a parcel that is open public land that is along the pathway between two parcels that I own.

That bothers me. 

you are not really banned from it..they just have it closed off from the public to walk through  or access it..

my sim i have to where only me and whoever i put on the lsit can come to it..

the reason the skybox let you in is because you are not banned..

i think i remember from another thread that ban lines only go up so high and actual banns are only like 800 meters or so..

i  love ban lines for one reason..

you can do this ontop of them lol

TRAMPOLINEs.jpg

 

 

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Rival Destiny wrote:

I can understand your frustration.  However, I am not understanding how ban lines would encroach over any LL protected public land  I'm assuming this is what you mean by pathway.

Otherwise, the ban lines would be around a parcel that is owned by someone.

I really don't like the banlines myself, however, going into someone's private residence just to see if you would be ejected is very passive aggressisve & I would most likely have banned you as well.

tit for tat never works. 

i don't even know if the owner can see their own banlines or not..

i remember having my skybox that i lived in..like 4k meters in the air in this one sim..my lot at the time was only a 512 m lot..and being way up there i thought closing off public access..that it just wouldn't let anyone cross..

then my friend told me i had banlines on..then i thought about it ..so i went down and i don't remember ever seeing them..

myself i think they are ugly so i would have not  had them on if i would have seen them..

they would have really uglied up the sim i lived in..

 

in chars case..sometimes  people will do things like that to try to get you to move..her property is right between both of chars lots ..so she moves up in the air and turns on ban lines..

thats really kind of silly if that is what the person is doing to her...unless she was like me and just didn't see them or think they were on down on the ground..

which could be very easily possible..

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Rival Destiny wrote:

Yes is correct, ban lines would not work that far up.  IIRC the max is 768 meters.

And I think perhaps I misread Charlottes comment.  I thought she was indeed banned but as a result of trespassing into the sky box.

 

i thought that was the limit on bans from parcels  and banlines was lower..

i really don'tuse all this stuff that much since i have mostly been on estates that are well protected or my own sims..

so i just get bits and pieces on some of this area hehehe

 

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