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Eileen Fellstein

Prim Babies/Tummies - why the negative opinions?

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 After reading..

 

 "dave picks his nose and eats its inconspicously looking around thinking no one's looking" 3 times, it's just not funny or  cute and endearing anymore

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Yep. It's the chat spam I don't like.

Imagine if someone with IBS had a "talking colon."

Oh, once in my early SL I was dancing in a 'club' and someone a few avatars away was wearing a chatting diaper. A grown avatar. Not kidding. The local chat it spammed was graphic. Their groups were all diaper fetish. The owners ended up ejecting them.

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I don't have a problem with them, in general. The chat spam can be annoying, but for me it depends in part on how often it emotes, and what it says. I don't pay that much attention to local chat, but if I'm getting messages even five minutes from the belly of some random woman, it gets a little irritating. Or if the messages are disgusting or inappropriate. (And I know of at least one tummy talker that has such messages, deliberately.)

I have used one myself, on occasion - when I was in the mood for it. BUT, after I'd been in SL long enough to really realize how irritating they were (keeping in mind that when I was new, I spent a lot of time in crowded areas where most people seemed to have something that spammed local, be it a titler, "personal" equipment, talking tummies, or whatever else), I made sure I found one that had a "private" setting - that way, if I really wanted that, I could have it but didn't have to spam everybody else.

I don't find prim children creepy. I have prim twins, and I think they're cute (and thus far the most realistic I've found). They don't spam local chat, either. (Although they do make noise.) Now, if someone takes their prim babies into a very crowded sim, not-baby-or-family-oriented sim - like the fantasy fair that's going on now, for instance, or the hair fair I went to a while back - I get irritated.

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My issue with teh tummy talkers is, it forces me into their RP. kinda like the bad vamps that offer people bites in full daylight at a crowded mall.. i deal with them the same way.

/me draws his enchanted dagger and offers to remove the demonic fetus from your womb.

DId i fail to mention i usually RP as a Demon?  If their fetus is talking, its demonic. I offered a woman 500L once for her prim baby.. We needed an innocent soul for a ritual. Mind you, she was in a BDSM mall.. and the kid was screaming. Seriously, that much realism i dont need in SL. I have kids in RL, i come to SL to get some escape.

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How come when a woman is pregnant her friends pat her tummy and say, "congratulations' but no one rubs the guys freenis and says, "good job?"

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I recently made a vow to do just that.. after it was pointed out that we leave a whole gender out of our congratulations :smileysurprised: I haven't run into any expecting couples since then to be able to make good on my promise.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

How come when a woman is pregnant her friends pat her tummy and say, "congratulations' but no one rubs the guys freenis and says, "good job?"

Well, for one, they are not patting her privates.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

How come when a woman is pregnant her friends pat her tummy and say, "congratulations' but no one rubs the guys freenis and says, "good job?"

 

Because shaking the pregnant woman's hand and offering her a cigar wouldn't be quite so appropriate.

But the day a guy can grow a foetus in his love pump (!) he'll get the pat and congrats treatment. :catwink:

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I don't have an issue with prim babies or SL pregnancies. Matter of fact, I will be one of the first people to tell someone that you or anyone else has the right to live their SL however you/they want; and I will go to the mat to defend your right. But I don't care for the spamming talking tummies. I don't care for anything that spams local - including people who love to gesturbate. It's not the nature of the spam - it's the spam itself.

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Venus Petrov wrote:

RL fetuses do not emote so when I 'hear' one in local chat, it is a distraction akin to couples emoting sex in local chat.  Take it to a room, folks.

^^^^ This - 

Plus a lot of us some to SL to escape RL, if only for a fleeting moment. That RL we're escaping usually entails varying degrees of whining, crying, screaming, fighing, complaining, needy kids. The last thing we want to see during our fleeting momentary escape is - you guessed it - more whining, crying, screaming, fighing, complaining, needy kids.

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I suppose it's odd to say this (given that this is SL and all sorts of things happen here that can't happen in RL) but it's always bugged me. It's just so unreal. I mean, not just the fact that the baby is talking from the womb, but the fact that the baby is talking at all! If I heard a baby cry from the womb, even in RL, I'd at least be susceptible to thinking that was possible. But to have one say, "Mommy, it is time to take the pink and blue vitamins"? Sorry. Not buying it. Creeps me out.

Thinking about it more, I have a theory about why so many seem to find the tummy talker bit off-putting. I've been lucky enough to have been involved in raising babies. I'm sure that's true for many of my fellow residents. Babies are about as special as humans can be. Watching them grow, and adapt, and learn, is one of the greatest experiences a person can have. So having a baby dictating a grocery list from the womb kinda bugs us. Unless, of course, it was our baby in there.

I should have said 'infants are about as special as mammals can be'. I think (can't find a reference right now but I know I've read it, and experienced it) just about all mammals have what seems to be an instinctive tenderness for infants, species not important. It is certainly true of us humans. Think of kittens, puppies, colts, need I go on? If I'm wrong someone will let me know.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

I suppose it's odd to say this (given that this is SL and all sorts of things happen here that can't happen in RL) but it's always bugged me. It's just so unreal. I mean, not just the fact that the baby is talking from the womb, but the fact that the baby is talking at all! If I heard a baby cry from the womb, even in RL, I'd at least be susceptible to thinking that was possible. But to have one say, "Mommy, it is time to take the pink and blue vitamins"? Sorry. Not buying it. Creeps me out.

Thinking about it more, I have a theory about why so many seem to find the tummy talker bit off-putting. I've been lucky enough to have been involved in raising babies. I'm sure that's true for many of my fellow residents. Babies are about as special as humans can be. Watching them grow, and adapt, and learn, is one of the greatest experiences a person can have. So having a baby dictating a grocery list from the womb kinda bugs us. Unless, of course, it was our baby in there.

I should have said 'infants are about as special as
mammals
can be'. I think (can't find a reference right now but I know I've read it, and experienced it) just about all mammals have what seems to be an instinctive tenderness for infants, species not important. It is certainly true of us humans. Think of kittens, puppies, colts, need I go on? If I'm wrong someone will let me know.

Humans have an innate preference for brachycephaly .. equate it w/ 'cute' .. & this is true across species ..

Not sure tho .. that other mammals share this preference .. tenderness towards their own infants may be mediated more by olfactory than visual cues .. to many mammals the infants of other species are regarded as being dinner .. not cute

Jeanne

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

just about all mammals have what seems to be an instinctive tenderness for infants, species not important. It is certainly true of us humans. Think of kittens, puppies, colts, need I go on? If I'm wrong someone will let me know.

Yep, we're wired to have an affinity for creatures with disproportionately large heads. Fortunately there are other markers that must accompany that, like small, pudgy bodies and large round eyes. Otherwise we'd all be fawning over the egotistical.

;-)

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It's of course not true in all species all the time. Male lions (for example) are known to eat their own young in some cases. On the other hand I have seen grown domesticated cats (granted, cats with no offspring of their own) react both protectively and tenderly to crying human infants. And the oversized cranium thing is largely only seen in human babies: kittens and puppies have heads that are proportionate to their bodies.

I wish I could remember the source and the exact quote. Had to do with human baby brain/cranium size and how that had such a huge effect of the evolution of the human female pelvis. It went something like, "If the human brain had gotten any larger, it's likely human females would lose the ability to walk." I loved that. The reason human females look so stimulating when walking is because their pelvises are shaped that way to deal with the results of the fact that human females look so stimulating when walking.

 

ETA: I was replying to Jeanne but included a response to Maddy and now I see I included one to Griffin as well; I just hadn't seen that while I was typing. This is my first SLF three-way, but I'll not brag about it.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

It's of course not true in all species all the time. Male lions (for example) are known to eat their own young in some cases. On the other hand I have seen grown domesticated cats (granted, cats with no offspring of their own) react both protectively and tenderly to crying human infants. And the oversized cranium thing is largely only seen in human babies: kittens and puppies have heads that are proportionate to their bodies.

I wish I could remember the source and the exact quote. Had to do with human baby brain/cranium size and how that had such a huge effect of the evolution of the human female pelvis. It went something like, "If the human brain had gotten any larger, it's likely human females would lose the ability to walk." I loved that. The reason human females look so stimulating when walking is because their pelvises are shaped that way to deal with the results of the fact that human femalse look so stimulating when walking.

 

ETA: I was replying to Jeanne but included a response to Maddy and now I see I included one to Griffin as well; I just hadn't seen that while I was typing. This is my first SLF three-way, but I'll not brag about it.

" But if the female's birth canal grew too wide, her pelvis would be so wide that she would lose the ability to run "

"The solution to this was to give birth at an early stage of fetal development, before the skull grew too large to pass through the birth canal. This adaptation enabled the human brain to continue to grow, but it imposed a new discipline. The need to care for helpless infants for long periods of time forced humans to become less mobile"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_human_intelligence

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Charolotte Caxton wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

It's of course not true in all species all the time. Male lions (for example) are known to eat their own young in some cases. On the other hand I have seen grown domesticated cats (granted, cats with no offspring of their own) react both protectively and tenderly to crying human infants. And the oversized cranium thing is largely only seen in human babies: kittens and puppies have heads that are proportionate to their bodies.

I wish I could remember the source and the exact quote. Had to do with human baby brain/cranium size and how that had such a huge effect of the evolution of the human female pelvis. It went something like, "If the human brain had gotten any larger, it's likely human females would lose the ability to walk." I loved that. The reason human females look so stimulating when walking is because their pelvises are shaped that way to deal with the results of the fact that human femalse look so stimulating when walking.

 

ETA: I was replying to Jeanne but included a response to Maddy and now I see I included one to Griffin as well; I just hadn't seen that while I was typing. This is my first SLF three-way, but I'll not brag about it.

" But if the female's birth canal grew too wide, her 
pelvis
 would be so wide that she would lose the ability to run "

"The solution to this was to give birth at an early stage of fetal development, before the skull grew too large to pass through the birth canal. This adaptation enabled the human brain to continue to grow, but it imposed a new discipline. The need to care for helpless infants for long periods of time forced humans to become less mobile"


Ahh. That's very close to what I recalled and it touches on the reason why the human 'infancy' period, relative to lifetime, is so much longer than the same period for related species. We must continue to mature, almost as if we were foetuses, outside the womb.

 

 

 

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

It's of course not true in all species all the time. Male lions (for example) are known to eat their own young in some cases. On the other hand I have seen grown domesticated cats (granted, cats with no offspring of their own) react both protectively and tenderly to crying human infants. And the oversized cranium thing is largely only seen in human babies: kittens and puppies have heads that are proportionate to their bodies.

I wish I could remember the source and the exact quote. Had to do with human baby brain/cranium size and how that had such a huge effect of the evolution of the human female pelvis. It went something like, "If the human brain had gotten any larger, it's likely human females would lose the ability to walk." I loved that. The reason human females look so stimulating when walking is because their pelvises are shaped that way to deal with the results of the fact that human femalse look so stimulating when walking.

Male lions ~& males of many other mammalian species~ will kill & often eat infants they havent sired .. A male lion taking over a pride routinely eats all the cubs .. which soons brings all the lionesses into estrus .. Mice take this a step further .. pheromones from a novel male will cause pregnant mice to abort their fetuses .. saving them the trubble of carrying the litter to term only to have their babies killed by the new male

Brachycephaly is one extreme of the continuum between short & long headedness (doliocephaly) .. When asked to rank the "cuteness" of animal images humans routinely select the more brachycephalic over the more doliocephalic image .. & this is true cross-culturally .. it has little or nothing to do w/ head realtive to body size .. but only to cephalic index

Yeah .. i agree that human pelvic morphology is determined more by sexual selection than by the biomechanics of childbirth .. Selection coulduv easily delayed cephalic growth to post-partum .. if significant selective vectors had demanded it .. That our species isnt so constrained smacks of sexual selection to me

Jeanne

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Charolotte Caxton wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

It's of course not true in all species all the time. Male lions (for example) are known to eat their own young in some cases. On the other hand I have seen grown domesticated cats (granted, cats with no offspring of their own) react both protectively and tenderly to crying human infants. And the oversized cranium thing is largely only seen in human babies: kittens and puppies have heads that are proportionate to their bodies.

I wish I could remember the source and the exact quote. Had to do with human baby brain/cranium size and how that had such a huge effect of the evolution of the human female pelvis. It went something like, "If the human brain had gotten any larger, it's likely human females would lose the ability to walk." I loved that. The reason human females look so stimulating when walking is because their pelvises are shaped that way to deal with the results of the fact that human femalse look so stimulating when walking.

 

ETA: I was replying to Jeanne but included a response to Maddy and now I see I included one to Griffin as well; I just hadn't seen that while I was typing. This is my first SLF three-way, but I'll not brag about it.

" But if the female's birth canal grew too wide, her 
pelvis
 would be so wide that she would lose the ability to run "

"The solution to this was to give birth at an early stage of fetal development, before the skull grew too large to pass through the birth canal. This adaptation enabled the human brain to continue to grow, but it imposed a new discipline. The need to care for helpless infants for long periods of time forced humans to become less mobile"


Humans are highly pedomorphic apes .. in many ways .. & for many reasons relative to selective pressures in the ancestral environment. The "just so" story about the big brains that support the 'intelligence' we're so prouduv sounds good .. but its an untestable hypothesis. Big heads & wide birth canals are more parsimoniously explained as merely  being components of an overall trend towards neotenic pedomorphism

Jeanne

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All named Dave?  How do you tell the kids apart?!  Well, at least they all have the same birthday, which should make party planning easier...

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Lindal Kidd wrote:

All named Dave?  How do you tell the kids apart?!  Well, at least they all have the same birthday, which should make party planning easier...

Well, nobody said I was smart...

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Nothing bothers me if it doesn't bother me.

Chatter in local is just a bit silly... But whatever... A friend of mine just had prim twins. She seems very happy. I never wanted to have prim babies because it's costly and requires a good deal of time to care for them.

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Married 20+ years, two sons 24 & 18.  Last thing I want to do on SL is have a wedding and babies.  Two years in, and I've never even been to a wedding.  LOL  (Edit.. OMG I should be slapped, went to one of my best friends from OFF SL's wedding 2 weeks ago!  Even helped the fiance surprise her with it.)  But, that is ME.  Other people want to marry and have kids, go for it.  I might not "get" it, but do whatever makes you happy.  

I'm not the one who is going to get all giddy over a baby.  I might get sentimental for a wedding, even though I'm anti-marriage.  LOL   You want to do the prim baby thing.  Have fun with it.  I had a guy at the club send us daily notecards on the progress of his & his partner's baby before having it.  "*Partner* is 3 months, and growing.  We couldn't be happier.  We are thinking of names.  Would you be so kind as to help us by giving us a name?"  Um, NO!   I said congrats!  That's about as deep as I want to get, until you *have* the baby and I'll say congrats again.  But, that is the extent of my interest.

As most other said, it's the inane babble.  I don't want to hear how mommy has to pee, or take her vitamins, or drink milk, becauase Baby *Whositwhatsit* said so.  Obviously many women like this.  Along with talking jewelry and sex bits.  I'll give you I have a chattering hooha, but I was over it very quickly.  My ex loved me wearing it, so I did for him, but only at home.  Back on topic, if a woman wants to have a talking tummy to make the experience more fun, why can't it IM HER, or program the daddy in and im both of them?  You can't tell me that creators of these things don't now how much people hate them.  Find a work around.

I mute ALL talking objects.  So, after I've said "Congrats" I never have to hear it again.  I'll smile and nod if you talk about it (or ignore it if I'm in the club).  So, when she says, "OMG did you see what the baby said???"  I say nope, all those things are muted.

Two years ago had a coworker in the club I was friendly with ask me to be her baby's godmother and I freaked.  I was still new.  I was like, "WTF is a godmother & what does it entail?  I don't babysit, feed or toilet train.  I might ooh & aah for a minute, but um...  errr.. ummmmm.  You might be better off finding someone closer to you to do this."

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