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Eileen Fellstein

Prim Babies/Tummies - why the negative opinions?

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Something I have noticed since I started in SL nearly 4 years ago is that it seems like there are a lot of people who express distaste toward the idea of prim children and probably even more with a negative view of scripted tummies that emote into the general chat.

I would really like to try to understand where this negative view of something like this comes from. I have my own theories, which I will try to keep to myself, because I have really really just been scratching my head on this one for a long time. To me it just seems like one of the most wonderful things we could be doing here is to celebrate the birth of children, the start of life, especially in ways that have the potential to be educational for people and/or maybe allow folks that for whatever reason can't have children experience this at least on some level.

I've expressed before and do maintain that the prim children I have seen need much further development before they could be claimed to be any kind of really accurate simulation. Well at least the ones I have seen.

Anyway, I'm really interested into the why's behind the negative press on this stuff. I mean if you think they are creepy, you do. That's your opinion, but why? lol. Really, genuinelly trying to get some understanding on this.

Thanks and play nice <3

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RL fetuses do not emote so when I 'hear' one in local chat, it is a distraction akin to couples emoting sex in local chat.  Take it to a room, folks.

Seeing someone with a preggo shape on does not bother me.  It is their SL and they can experience it the way they choose.

No, my only issue is with local emoters.

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

Something I have noticed since I started in SL nearly 4 years ago is that it seems like there are a lot of people who express distaste toward the idea of prim children and probably even more with a negative view of scripted tummies that emote into the general chat.

I would really like to try to understand where this negative view of something like this comes from. I have my own theories, which I will try to keep to myself, because I have really really just been scratching my head on this one for a long time. To me it just seems like one of the most wonderful things we could be doing here is to celebrate the birth of children, the start of life, especially in ways that have the potential to be educational for people and/or maybe allow folks that for whatever reason can't have children experience this at least on some level.

I've expressed before and do maintain that the prim children I have seen need much further development before they could be claimed to be any kind of really accurate simulation. Well at least the ones I have seen.

Anyway, I'm really interested into the why's behind the negative press on this stuff. I mean if you think they are creepy, you do. That's your opinion, but
why?
lol. Really, genuinelly trying to get some understanding on this.

Thanks and play nice <3

I have the Mama Allpa hud & am pregnant .. I might have considered a tummy talker cept that my sisters asked me to please, Please, PLEASE not wear a talking fetus .. They really don't like them .. They say that they're annoying .. So all I've done is to increase my tummy size w/ the slider as realistically as i could as my pregnancy has progressed .. I've also tweaked the love handle slider a bit & increased the gravity on my breasts .. I'm trying to make my avvie as realistically pregnant looking as i can .. I'm currently around 6 months ..

The baby's daddy, my sister & i went to the Zooby baby store & bought a baby .. his hair is the same color as his daddy's .. his daddy named him Jaques .. Jaques is going to have to be born around the end of April in order for his daddy to be present at the birth .. cuz he is going to the UK in rl around the 1st of May & wont be back for awhile .. This is a little early according to the hud but i can increase my tummy size a ltl faster & its all ok .. Since Jaques hasnt been born yet i'm not supposed to rezz him & play with him .. alone in the nursery in my skyhouse tho .. iv cheated & rezzed him & played w/ him & learned how he works .. I have a crib & changing table for him .. & a chair to set in while i nurse him .. I cant wait til he's born & i can have him out all the time !!

Which reminds me ... can anyone suggest a good birthing animation? I've looked at the Mama Allpa, one from Tasha's Treasures @ Gorean Emporium, & one by MauMau Drenzel @ Dragon Animations .. Can anyone tell me which of these, or others, is best please. I want one w/ 3 pose balls, for mommy, her partner & the midwife. My sister is going to be midwife & i want the RP of giving birth to go well, be fun & realistic. Thanks!

Jeanne

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Venus Petrov wrote:

RL fetuses do not emote so when I 'hear' one in local chat, it is a distraction akin to couples emoting sex in local chat.  Take it to a room, folks.

Seeing someone with a preggo shape on does not bother me.  It is their SL and they can experience it the way they choose.

No, my only issue is with local emoters.

Hi Venus :)

Hehe you actually coupled my most comon comeback to 'those noisy tummies' along with the criticism itself. "when I 'hear' one in local chat, it is a distraction akin to couples emoting sex in local chat."

 

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Congrats JeanneAnne :D

I wish I could help but I have never got that far as having a partner that was interested in having that kind of experience.

lol @ the cheating part hehe. I adopted a little girl (welcome one yr old Colleen!) the other day. One of my friends is my sitter and being as excited as I was, wanted to take her over night and take her shopping,  She wasn't gone two hours and I was missing her so I wound up using the other copy to put her to bed before I logged,lol

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For me it really just boils down to unnecessary spam appearing in open chat. Someone attention-seeking "look at me I'm pregnant, share my joy". Not everyone wants to share the joy of a virtual fetus in a virtual world, any more than they would go up to a random pregnant woman and lay their hands on her belly! It's just inappropriate.

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For me, it's simply the annoyance of scripted chatter. I don't like to see it from babies in tummies or people's naughty bits, nor from verbose applause gestures.

For reasons not worth repeating, I found myself pregnant for all of one day, after which I gave birth to 23 octopi, all named Dave. Several of my precious babies were consumed by their siblings within the first few days, but the rest of them are now roaming SL and RL, devouring the unwary and causing general mischief. It was deliriously easy for me to imagine one of the Daves posing as a water park slide so that he might lure unsuspecting children into his gaping maw. I even found a photograph of him at work...

Dave.jpg

I am perfectly capable of making up such banal nonsense myself, so I get prickly in the presence of people who spend good money on things to be banal for them.

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Venus Petrov wrote:

RL fetuses do not emote so when I 'hear' one in local chat, it is a distraction akin to couples emoting sex in local chat.  Take it to a room, folks.

Seeing someone with a preggo shape on does not bother me.  It is their SL and they can experience it the way they choose.

No, my only issue is with local emoters.

^^^^ 

This! 

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Yep. It's the chat spam I don't like.

Imagine if someone with IBS had a "talking colon."

lmao

I actually did see someone post a rather vulgar emote in local chat concerning their colon. I was also the one in charge of the venue at the time so I got the wonderful priveldge of ejecting them straightforward.

I was careful not to touch them in that sensative location though.

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I've seen people with tummy talkers get ejected, as well, from events where local chat is supposed to be kept to a minimum (or at least related to business at hand, like auctions, etc.). That is, of course, after being asked, in voice and IM, to mute their "foetus."

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So far I'm in agreement with most of what has been expressed, though I do see one thing I think could be challenged maybe just a little.

A fetus doesn't talk. Correct. a baby doesn't actually speak intelligable words untill after a year old normally (there are many claims of babies talking earlier, and hey, who I am I to argue with what happened with someone else's baby?)

The possible counterpoint to that is they (fetus) are effected by the stimuli the mother receives and do seem to react directly. And some studies show that babies may be crying in the womb(silently -there's no air in there) as early as 28 weeks in response to things mommy does. That don't mean they are broadcasting across the room though. Any communication is going on between mother and child on a physical level and mom's body language would convey that to others.

That makes me wonder if the scripting is taking the wrong angle for something like this...something as sacred to many as the birth of a new new life. It might be an improvement if any emotes were focused on mom and what she is feeling rather than someone writing emotes for the fetus. Just a thought.

Chat spam. Yes this adds to that becoming unruly especially in places where people are asked not to gesture or spam things.

Really goes to the next thing which is question of appropriateness. Most of the places I have run across people having their tummies talking in local chat were clubs, the like of whch I would never take a baby to (newborn or unborn) in real life.

Also in general my experience in RL is that it's not real common for parents to be talking to the baby in the tummy out in public. Might happen some but not a lot.

Attention seeking? I have to agree though a pregnant woman seeking attention is hardly unheard of either, lol

Too much money? lol, whatever makes a person happy. These dollies are expensive but I can appreciate the work involved and I like feeling like I am contributing to the SL world via the purchase of products and services I enjoy. People spend money on huds that let them squat and crap a steaming pile of doo on the floor. That's a big waste IMO (pun intended) but I guess that sh!t makes them happy too.

 

I really haven't seen the type of comments in the thread like I have seen from others inworld. You know, the 'eww creepy' ones with no reason attached. Everything here so far has been reasonable.

I do remember being a bit taken back by the 1st prim baby I saw in SL back in 08. It really looked like someone painted a face on a sack of taters. I can understand some ewwing over something like that.

Maddy, I think I saw one of your kids a while back down near Joe Louis Arena. Poor kid was layin out in the middle of the ice. He didn't appear to be moving :(

article on fetus crying here http://www.medpagetoday.com/OBGYN/Pregnancy/1719

 

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

Really goes to the next thing which is question of appropriateness. Most of the places I have run across people having their tummies talking in local chat were clubs, the like of whch I would never take a baby to (newborn or unborn) in real life.


When I was still fairly new to SL, a friend (and often the token female at the gay clubs that I then frequented) delivered her baby on the bar one night.

Good times, good times.

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Ha! can't help where the water breaks...or when!

 

My son was at an Iron Maiden concert inutero (hey, I wasn't missing that!) Now, he's a hell of a musician of his own right.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

For reasons not worth repeating, I found myself pregnant for all of one day, after which I gave birth to 23 octopi, all named


 

That goes a long way towards explaining why you greet other adults in SL as 'kids'.  Perhaps your not-so-subliminal way of looking for your progeny?

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Venus Petrov wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

For reasons not worth repeating, I found myself pregnant for all of one day, after which I gave birth to 23 octopi, all named


 

That goes a long way towards explaining why you greet other adults in SL as 'kids'.  Perhaps your not-so-subliminal way of looking for your progeny?

It does? As my progeny are all imaginary, I needn't ever look for them. They are wherever I imagine them to be.

I say "Hi, Kids!" as a bit of homage to my mother, who often returned home from errands to greet me and my Father that way. She was then, as I am now, celebrating the childlike wonder that so many of us in SL share.

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I don't have negative opinions about other people's roleplay in Second Life (with one exception that needn't be mentioned here.) It really is none of my business.

On this type of roleplay in particular, it doesn't bother me. I used to manage a park that a lot of people visited who roleplayed children, families, people with babies etc. I had single dads, two dads with one prim baby, big families, and kids who just wanted to run around alone and enjoy a day in the park. I never had any trouble from any of them.

When I had to ban people it was for the same stuff a lot of other sims ban for, including region inappropriate behavior; or for harassing other people. It was never any of the above types. Make of that what you will.

I like to see a nurturing side in people and perhaps when I see someone cuddling a prim baby or patting their prim belly it evokes that for me.

The one time it does bother me, and I have a rule against this at my place, is when the talking spams local chat. That is annoying on two levels: One, it spams local chat, and two, it drags other people into  your roleplay in an aggressive way. I don't allow other forms of that at my place either, whether it's sexual or romantic roleplay in local, or vampire roleplay or whatever. Just keep it to IM. Or mute when  you are not on a roleplay sim.

 

 

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

For reasons not worth repeating, I found myself pregnant for all of one day, after which I gave birth to 23 octopi, all named


 

That goes a long way towards explaining why you greet other adults in SL as 'kids'.  Perhaps your not-so-subliminal way of looking for your progeny?

It does? As my progeny are all imaginary, I needn't ever look for them. They are wherever I imagine them to be.

I say "Hi, Kids!" as a bit of homage to my mother, who often returned home from errands to greet me and my Father that way. She was then, as I am now, celebrating the childlike wonder that so many of us in SL share.

Calling out 'Hi Kids!' is celebrating childlike wonder?   Might it also be placing you in the adult role and all others as children?  No need to answer.  Just think about it.

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I have no problem if someone wants to be 'pregnant' or roleplay a child, its just not my personal cup of tea for many reasons that I won't go into here.  I hate the talking fetuses for  two reasons,

#1) Its spam and has no place where I see it in public non roleplay areas. It is not only inappropriate, but it isn't realistic and can ruin the experience of being where I am.  It shows no consideration on the part of the person responsible for it and makes me feel like they think that what they want to experience is more important than what anyone else does. I keep my personal thing in IM when in public non roleplay areas and think everyone should.  In every venue i've ever owned and managed I've gotten numerous IM's from people that ask me to make it stop and if it doesn't, they mostly leave and occasionally start making fun of the person in chat causing more problems. 

#2) I don't like people pushing ANY role play in my face when in a place that is not for roleplay.  If you want to roleplay outside of a roleplay area, please keep it to yourself or in private IM.  Just looking pregnant is not the issue, people are free to have their avatar look the way they want it too. I feel this way about all roleplay outside of a roleplay area.

 

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Venus Petrov wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

For reasons not worth repeating, I found myself pregnant for all of one day, after which I gave birth to 23 octopi, all named


 

That goes a long way towards explaining why you greet other adults in SL as 'kids'.  Perhaps your not-so-subliminal way of looking for your progeny?

It does? As my progeny are all imaginary, I needn't ever look for them. They are wherever I imagine them to be.

I say "Hi, Kids!" as a bit of homage to my mother, who often returned home from errands to greet me and my Father that way. She was then, as I am now, celebrating the childlike wonder that so many of us in SL share.

Calling out 'Hi Kids!' is celebrating childlike wonder?   Might it also be placing you in the adult role and all others as children?  No need to answer.  Just think about it.

Venus, I've been saying "Hi, Kids!" for at least three decades in RL (in both my personal and professional lives) and for my entire four years in SL. Some have commented on this over the years, wondering where it came from, a few even repeat it. You now have the distinction of being the first person ever to suggest I need to think about it.

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Eileen Fellstein wrote:

Anyway, I'm really interested into the why's behind the negative press on this stuff. I mean if you think they are creepy, you do. That's your opinion, but
why?
lol. Really, genuinelly trying to get some understanding on this.

Thanks and play nice <3

No doubt that some folks think it's weird or possibly creepy but I have no objection to it.

The only thing is what others have said before me, the chat spam. 

There's nothing so wonderful as having a romantic dance with your partner when suddenly you see on your screen,

"Baby kicks Mommy in the kidney because Mommy ate broccoli for dinner and now I have gas and I'm going to make Mommy pay for it."

The emotes are just plain annoying and many of the  comments are just plain inane.

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I actually ran into a woman that had a talking tummie that emitted a baby crying sound wise. And she didn't know how to turn it off. I was ready to pull my hair out. Also prim babies, of some creators are so script heavy that they cause lag.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Eileen Fellstein wrote:

Anyway, I'm really interested into the why's behind the negative press on this stuff. I mean if you think they are creepy, you do. That's your opinion, but
why?
lol. Really, genuinelly trying to get some understanding on this.

Thanks and play nice <3

No doubt that some folks think it's weird or possibly creepy but I have no objection to it.

The only thing is what others have said before me, the chat spam. 

There's nothing so wonderful as having a romantic dance with your partner when suddenly you see on your screen,

"Baby kicks Mommy in the kidney because Mommy ate broccoli for dinner and now I have gas and I'm going to make Mommy pay for it."

The emotes are just plain annoying and many of the  comments are just plain inane.

Yes and at best, like anything else that emotes, there's never so many options that they all don't grow old within about 2 hours.

And really if it's going to be that graphic, maybe it ought to incorporate remote scripting that immediately teleports mommy to the clinic, lol

But I have had far worse on dates! ...like having a romatic dance with someone and having some bozo land and pass both of us RL pics of their genitals. Was priceless though when my dance partner who happened to be TG turned to him and said "I bet mine is bigger than yours!"

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