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Quesion: Abandoned Land/People using them but not owners


Precious Tremmor
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I play a game in sl which has what we call "bases" in the game. For a base, you have to have land and rez them.

 

There is a certain group within the game that we have recently found are using Abandoned Land owned by Linden Labs that still has rez on, and also using land owned by other residents who aren't on sl anymore.  In my eyes this is the same as stealing. However, I was wondering what the LL view would be on this?  I am assuming it would be something, that if reported, LL would not approve of, since if that was the case everybody would do it and nobody would ever pay for land they use.  But I am curious, anyone know for sure?  Figured I would ask before reporting it.

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Suqatting is very common. I wouldnt worry much about it. Most abandoned land have rezzing rights but should have a 5 minute return on them . But they can link everything to one prim and slide it over and rez the 1 prim on somone elses land that links to everything and put it on the land that is abandoned for a long time... Lol I would report it to the land owners who own the land they are squatting with

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New abandoned land will have auto-return automatically set.  However, there still seems to be lots of old abandoned land that still has no auto-return.  The solution to that problem is simple.  File a support ticket under “Land & Region” and then “Linden Lab owner Parcel Issues.”  Give the SLURL and briefly explain that there's abandoned land with junk on it but no auto-return.  It's a no-brainer for the LL employee to return the junk and set auto-return since it's owned by LL.  If you want to clean up abandoned land, this is the way to do it.

For other people's land, you can try contacting the land owner.  Beyond that, there's not much you can do.  It's up to the land owner to return junk and set auto-return.  LL won't step in on behalf of the land owner since the land owner might not care that someone else is using their land.

Also, if the objects aren't causing noticeable lag, don't have abusive text/pictures, don't block travel, or don't do anything else that's an obvious no-no, then filing an AR is waste of everybody's time.  Simply being ugly (or not pretty/well-made enough for somebody's standards) isn't a TOS violation.

Regarding the game, perhaps you can appeal to the game maker to add the ability to check object ownership versus land ownership and disable the object if there's a mismatch.

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Hugsy Penguin wrote:

 filing an AR is waste of everybody's time.  Simply being ugly (or not pretty/well-made enough for somebody's standards) isn't a TOS violation.


Abuse of sim resources, squatting, prim or particle encroachment, need I go on?

You don't think it is a big deal but the people downwind of it might.

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You took my quote out of context.  Let me repeat it for you with emphasis added:

Also, if the objects aren't causing noticeable lag, don't have abusive text/pictures, don't block travel, or don't do anything else that's an obvious no-no, then filing an AR is waste of everybody's time.  Simply being ugly (or not pretty/well-made enough for somebody's standards) isn't a TOS violation.”

Abuse of sim resources – I said “causing noticeable lag”.  The mere existence of a prim is not abuse of sim resources.  An unscripted plywood cube is not abuse of sim resources (nor is one with the default Hello Avatar script).  In the case of the game object referenced by the OP, I assume that it's not particularly laggy or else people wouldn't want to play.  But that's just an assumption and if it does cause noticeable lag then that would be AR worthy.

squatting – It's true that this is something I generally don't waste my time getting upset about.  Where is this *specifically* called out in the TOS?  I'm not talking about things that might go with squatting (like the other things you and I mentioned).  I'm talking about the specific instruction that users are not to build on/leave prims on/live on land without explicit permission from the land owner.  The closest I've been able to find is a blurb about Protected land (that's different than abandoned land but I assume similar thinking applies):

Warning: Build on protected land or in the skies above it at your own risk! If another Resident reports your build, or if it hampers the use of Second Life, it may be returned without notice.”

Source:  http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Protected-land/ta-p/903023

Notice how it doesn't explicitly state “don't do it.”

prim or particle encroachment – Ok, fine.  I didn't call this out specifically, but that's why I added “anything else that's an obvious no-no”.  I wasn't trying to make a comprehensive list.

If there are prims anywhere clearly violating the TOS, then file the AR if it's bothering you that much.  Otherwise, if the prims are simply non-Linden owned on abandoned land, your best bet is to just submit a support ticket to get the parcel properties straightened out.  Because in this case, you can AR until the cows come home and you'll be wasting your time.  I say this because I have personal experience with finding abandoned land that had some prims that someone was ARing for months without any results.  I sent in a support ticket and it was all cleaned up within a few business days.  That's all that needed to be done.

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Rezzing on Linden-owned abandoned land is easily stopped: just file a support ticket and they'll come out and set the parcel permissions appropriately.  (As Hugsy pointed out, that problem doesn't arise with newly abandoned land now.)

With land owned by private residents, it's a bit tricky.  If you can no longer produce a profile for those residents, with a message something like "that name is unavailable", then they're probably defunct accounts and the land is orphaned. Again, a support ticket will often get it officially abandoned and permissions set correctly.

But if the landowning account is still valid, but dormant, it's a judgment call whether Lindens will return objects on the parcel. If you can make a case that they're abusing resources or are a real detriment to enjoying the rest of the sim, then they'll probably be removed.  (Again, I'd use a support ticket rather than an AR.) The other side of this, however, is that the landowner may have intended to "donate" their land as a kind of long term public sandbox, hence the funky parcel permissions. That's extraordinarily stupid, of course, but stupidity is permitted-- and sometimes encouraged. ;)

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it depends on what it is and how it affects the sim

if is a bullet, screamer, spewer or a vehicle thats strayed onto an obvious derelict parcel and got stuck then the janitor lindens pretty good about that

i used to live near a private weps testing parcel. was all kinds of stuff that people tested there. stuff ended up all over the sim and lagged the place to death some days. i file a request and a linden came and set the derelict parcels to autoreturn

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An awful lot of this sounds like sour grapes to me lol, "I payed for my land etc, why shouldnt you". Ya get squatters in RL and ya get squatters here lol. I hasten to add that I have not built or used (or abused) ABANDONED LAND, but if ya can get away with it, go for it I say.

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agreed, so long as people are conscious about trying to keep the lag down then squatters are welcome especially on linden abandoned land and at my place (if they're prim conscious). At the end of the day IT'S A GAME. People get so uptight and bothered about it but really, the more stuff on here to look at, the more people in the vicinity the more interesting it is..  unused land is the biggest threat to my own gameplay tbh

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Half of a given mainland sim abandoned still leaves it more profitble than an estate sim. And it leaves thos of us using the other half with a less crowded place.

I'd lke to see moles take over some of that empty land and put in parks - at least enough to beautify up some of it.

 

To the person on who's land someone has moved in - just set auto return, and get a cheap security orb, Place that inside your home. About 300L. I recommend it over banlines because it will be able to be specificly targetted in both person and location (banlines only go up to a certain height - named bannings only go up a little further).

Then just wait a few days and they'll have moved on from being unable to enter.

I use a security orb in my home, very carefully positioned so that it ends at the walls of the building. I combine that with locked doors. I get a decent number of people who come by and try the door, but only 1 or 2 a month that get inside (local teleporting), and so up on my security orb's logs (1 second timer before ejecting - imo if you enter past a locked door, you know you're invading, so a warning is no longer needed).

 

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If LL were smart they'd start using some of the empty mainland for Linden Homes instead of building separate islands for them. Particularly in the continent interiors with no water or road access and therefore less desirable for purchase.. They could be built in smaller clusters with a buffer zone around them of no rez, no object entry land full of trees  They could even take whole sims for larger scale communities, if just a small part os occupied.   The owners of any of the few occupied  lots could be offered a deal to move.  Give them an attractive incentive such as a one time bonus, or free tiers for a period of time as well as their choice of any available LL owned land in an even size trade.  Many of these landowners may find land that is more desirable than what they own.  If no comparable existing lot exists, it would be easy enough for the Lindens to change something on an existing lot  or area terraform to make it comparable.

This would benefit everyone.  People that live in LL homes would feel more a part of the greater SL world, instead of being isolated in what many refer to as the SLums and the mainland would appear more attractive. People who live in these homes would be more exposed to how 'the other half lives' which would more motivate some to move out of the Linden Home and purchase or rent property. This would help the overall economy and fulfill the original purpose of these free homes.   More attractive surrounds would make existing land owners happy too and make land on the mainland more in demand decreasing empty land further. Lastly, I may be wrong, but I would think LL would save money too by using existing server resources that they must maintain anyway, instead of extra ones.

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linden homes kinda serve the purpose for which they most suited. as a dressing room

most people dont put hardly any stuff in them. if at all. is just a rez homeplace. somewhere safe to open boxes, get changed and mod their shapes and attachments

is a prem sandbox nearby to rez big stuff without any bother as well

i move backwards and forwards to linden homes and mainland as i feel like it. am on another linden home at the moment

on my sim most of the homes are taken but are mostly empty of stuff. my neighbours are just in and out when they do show up. bit like me really. most people off exploring, clubbing and socialising other places. building as well. not many people hardly ever stay at home for long

if i had to put a label on them then they more like dorm rooms than anything. or bedsits maybe

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I let that one slide, on the premise that "abandoned" might not mean "Abandoned".  I wouldn't quibble with a claim that "half" of Mainland is unused and ignored by its owners, despite still being owned and (presumably) generating tier revenue for the Lab.

I also kind of ignored the expressed preference for active neighbors. On the one hand, they make lag, but on the other, their presence does make SL feel more vital, not so much a ghost town. And really, Mainland makes more sense with more activity; the fortress of solitude being more a private island thing.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...


Chronometria wrote:

The real waste of "sim resources" is the fact that almost half of mainland is abandoned and is being used for absolutely nothing.

 

https://my.secondlife.com/bunny.gearz/snapshots/5008e35a2a53890f70000001

If you look at the linden homes; it appears the number of them occupied is directly proportional to the amount of mainland now vacant...

- Which just means LLs is all the less likely to feel motivated to cure this issue, as they tend to see things in a more shortsighted way.

 

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