Am I only one?

[161488303349]

one of the things about civilians is they not in the army. is quite hard to boss civilans and have them do what you say without question even if you wants to pay them to be your drone. except at mcdonalds maybe

[Phil Deakins]

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

That's exactly what I heard too.  Another thing he said was that his team told him it was no longer possible because this, because that and because "we said so."  I lost a LOT of respect for Rodvik that day and so far...he's done nothing to gain it back.  Just have a look at World War 3 going on in the Merchant Forums!  And Rodvik just let's it continue....

---

 

World War 3? Do you mean about the marketplace being borked?

[Teagan Tobias]

I like that fact that I have a proper name.  I look at some of the names in SL now and just think, how sad for them.  And the saddest part is that it can all be taken care of easily.  Just add one line to the sign up and a very little code and its all taken care of.
“Your user name can include one space as long as it is not the first or last character.”
This way everyone will have exactly what they want.  Don't want to worry with a proper name, you don't need to.  Don't like a string of unrelated character as your name, make a proper name.
But what about the avatars that already have funny names?  Okay, what about them, there here, leave them alone. They can do what every other avatar has done over the years, by the millions, MAKE AN ALT.  Hey Linden Lab folks, think of all the new sign-ups you'll git out of it   That will really look good on a graph.
And as far as Display Names go, they are a good idea if you like Through-Away-Names or you do RP.  They are temporary, great to play with but a lot of people just do not pay any attention to them, at all, in any way.  I always look at the user name because the display name will most likely change, but the user name is there for good.
I have an Alt and she uses a display name (my little test, same display name for over a year, never changes).  I can not find her in search using her display name.  Have tried numerous times, have never found her, and yes the show me in search is on.

[Ossian1488303077]

I recently made a account to try the new-user experience. It took me an entire day to come up with a simple, useable name that I liked.

 

There are a few things to consider about this name situation:

1. There isn't any need for all of us to feel the same way about display names. It's appropriate and right for some people to despise them, others to love them, and the rest of us to fall somewhere between those two extremes.

2. From LL's point of view, having people choose ugly usernames is a good thing, because it gets them through the signup faster. When you are looking for a name that's worth having, it takes longer, and slows down the sign up process.

3. LL doesn't have any reason to change the current situation. They see more signups, more people staying. They feel that they fixed something that wasn't working.

4. That said, it would be smart of them to give the option of having a last name. If they did, I think everyone would be happy.

5. If they won't offer that option, they should at least explain their claim that allowing it's one of the most challenging programming tasks on earth. If they could do that, it would diffuse some of the frustration over this issue.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

namssab1nad Piers wrote:

The problem with Rodvik is that he is not running the company.  He is not making decisions and then ORDERING his employees to just do it.  He is letting THEM tell him what THEY are willing to do.  So LL is really without leadership.  That is what LL sorely needs right now.  A leader.  A leader tells his followers what to do.  Not go to them and ask if they will do it.  Of course they are going to say it can't be done.  They want to do as little work as possible.

---

This.

He's letting the monkey's run the zoo.

Very bad.

Though I disagree with some finer points - good leaders don't dictate by fiat. They get a lot of input and make decisions. But they've got to have the strength to push people down hard to trod paths.

 

[Orca Flotta]

That is what LL sorely needs right now.  A leader.  A leader tells his followers what to do. 

 

Uh ... oh ... well. Another huge enterprise  tried that already long ago, and it didn't end too well for them. It was in 1933 and the name of that company was Germany. German term for Leader is Führer. So you all know what I'm getting at. :catsurprised:

Ok, now we all know a company is not a democracy but a boss should keep his employees happy. Happy chicken lay more and better eggs.

 

 

[Electronic Mode]

I dont want to start a war here

 

all i want is last names back so that people dont have to have slave names (read: single names)

 

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

Ossian wrote:

I recently made a account to try the new-user experience. It took me an

entire day

to come up with a simple, useable name that I liked.

 

There are a few things to consider about this name situation:

1. There isn't any need for all of us to feel the same way about display names. It's appropriate and right for some people to despise them, others to love them, and the rest of us to fall somewhere between those two extremes.

2. From LL's point of view, having people choose ugly usernames is a good thing, because it gets them through the signup faster. When you are looking for a name that's worth having, it takes longer, and slows down the sign up process.

3. LL doesn't have any reason to change the current situation. They see more signups, more people staying. They feel that they fixed something that wasn't working.

4. That said, it would be smart of them to give the

option

of having a last name. If they did, I think everyone would be happy.

5. If they won't offer that option, they should at least explain their claim that allowing it's one of the most challenging programming tasks on earth. If they could do that, it would diffuse some of the frustration over this issue.

---

Regarding your number 5 statement, there is no need to explain what a challenge it is, it is already in place and people are still signing up with last names. 

A quick search of the name Hurricane will show that as recent as April 7 2012, new accounts are signing up with last names. 

Someone before when I pointed this out said that the ability to buy custom names has always been around, which is true, but that costs 500 US Dollars to do so, these names are not custom names, if they are, it is a sour deal as they are all having to share the last name of Hurricane.  

They could perhaps belong to a private company that allows signups, like educational portals used to do, but even if, the fact that they are able to sign up a with last name proves that signing up with last names is not impossible or impossible to implement. It is already in place and never went away.

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

Ah, I see, they are all members of a language school, I still don't understand why they get last names and no one else does. Oh well, I already know English and I have a last name, so I have no reason to wonder I suppose.

Perhaps it was a deal that was put into place before last names went away that is grandfathered in?

[PeterCanessa Oh]

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Registration_API

Using this an organisation can, for instance, customise the second name of avatars.

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Registration_API

Using this an organisation can, for instance, customise the second name of avatars.

---

Right, in this instance those 3 examples all belong to the same group, an English language group. However, the name Hurricane has been around for awhile and is not unique to that group, so I do not believe it was created by that group, and even if, the point was that last names can and do still work for new signups.

[Ossian1488303077]

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

---

Ossian wrote:

I recently made a account to try the new-user experience. It took me an

entire day

to come up with a simple, useable name that I liked.

 

There are a few things to consider about this name situation:

1. There isn't any need for all of us to feel the same way about display names. It's appropriate and right for some people to despise them, others to love them, and the rest of us to fall somewhere between those two extremes.

2. From LL's point of view, having people choose ugly usernames is a good thing, because it gets them through the signup faster. When you are looking for a name that's worth having, it takes longer, and slows down the sign up process.

3. LL doesn't have any reason to change the current situation. They see more signups, more people staying. They feel that they fixed something that wasn't working.

4. That said, it would be smart of them to give the

option

of having a last name. If they did, I think everyone would be happy.

5. If they won't offer that option, they should at least explain their claim that allowing it's one of the most challenging programming tasks on earth. If they could do that, it would diffuse some of the frustration over this issue.

---

Regarding your number 5 statement, there is no need to explain what a challenge it is, it is already in place and people are still signing up with last names. 

A quick search of the name Hurricane will show that as recent as April 7 2012, new accounts are signing up with last names. 

Someone before when I pointed this out said that the ability to buy custom names has always been around, which is true, but that costs 500 US Dollars to do so, these names are not custom names, if they are, it is a sour deal as they are all having to share the last name of Hurricane.  

They could perhaps belong to a private company that allows signups, like educational portals used to do, but even if, the fact that they are able to sign up a with last name proves that signing up with last names is not impossible or impossible to implement. It is already in place and never went away.

 

---

---

Yes, there is a need to explain. Linden Lab has always claimed that allowing people to change names was too difficult for them.

Recently, when Rodvik was exploring the possibility of bringing back last names, he said that he was told "it can't be done."

This is, of course, contradicted by cases where LL changed people's names, and by the examples that you give. But that doesn't change the fact that they claimed that they wouldn't do it because it was so massively difficult.

[Marcus Hancroft]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

That's exactly what I heard too.  Another thing he said was that his team told him it was no longer possible because this, because that and because "we said so."  I lost a LOT of respect for Rodvik that day and so far...he's done nothing to gain it back.  Just have a look at World War 3 going on in the Merchant Forums!  And Rodvik just let's it continue....

---

 

World War 3? Do you mean about the marketplace being borked?

---

Yes, indeed I do, Phil. 

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

Ossian wrote:

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

---

Ossian wrote:

I recently made a account to try the new-user experience. It took me an

entire day

to come up with a simple, useable name that I liked.

 

There are a few things to consider about this name situation:

1. There isn't any need for all of us to feel the same way about display names. It's appropriate and right for some people to despise them, others to love them, and the rest of us to fall somewhere between those two extremes.

2. From LL's point of view, having people choose ugly usernames is a good thing, because it gets them through the signup faster. When you are looking for a name that's worth having, it takes longer, and slows down the sign up process.

3. LL doesn't have any reason to change the current situation. They see more signups, more people staying. They feel that they fixed something that wasn't working.

4. That said, it would be smart of them to give the

option

of having a last name. If they did, I think everyone would be happy.

5. If they won't offer that option, they should at least explain their claim that allowing it's one of the most challenging programming tasks on earth. If they could do that, it would diffuse some of the frustration over this issue.

---

Regarding your number 5 statement, there is no need to explain what a challenge it is, it is already in place and people are still signing up with last names. 

A quick search of the name Hurricane will show that as recent as April 7 2012, new accounts are signing up with last names. 

Someone before when I pointed this out said that the ability to buy custom names has always been around, which is true, but that costs 500 US Dollars to do so, these names are not custom names, if they are, it is a sour deal as they are all having to share the last name of Hurricane.  

They could perhaps belong to a private company that allows signups, like educational portals used to do, but even if, the fact that they are able to sign up a with last name proves that signing up with last names is not impossible or impossible to implement. It is already in place and never went away.

 

---

---

Yes, there is a need to explain. Linden Lab has always claimed that allowing people to change names was too difficult for them.

Recently, when Rodvik was exploring the possibility of bringing back last names, he said that he was told "it can't be done."

This is, of course, contradicted by cases where LL changed people's names, and by the examples that you give. But that doesn't change the fact that they claimed that they wouldn't do it because it was so massively difficult.

---

Ah, let me rephrase, as we are both in agreement. Instead of no need to explain what a challenge it is, I will say, there is no need to explain what a challenge it is because it is obviously not a challenge as the system is in place and working.

So yes, the explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do are obviously not correct as it is plainly being done. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

So yes, the explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do are obviously not correct as it is plainly being done. 

---

The explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do may have been misremembered/misunderstood. Here's a quote from Rodvik's response...

"But back to the matter at hand. As I promised if we couldn’t figure out a way that was a win/win for folks who want complete freedom vs. a list of last names, we wouldn’t do it. We couldn’t, so we wont."

Rodvik said a win/win solution couldn't be found. I did not read this as a technical statement so much as a business decision. Yes, both single and last name systems are still in operation. That is different than Linden Labs stating, as I quoted here, that the last name system created a lot of sign-up friction. While it is often technically possible to do unwise things, that doesn't mean you should.

I find the widespread supposition that forumites are representative of the larger SL population to be a bit a bit presumptive. We might be, but LL suggests otherwise, both directly (that previous quote) and indirectly (by their actions).

All that said, I'm not recommending we stop questioning LL's wisdom (I do it constantly), just that we remember they see more than we do.

[Diasonia Stransky]

I completely agree with Ossian, it would be a great idea if we could have an option for the names. To me, as an oldie of sort, it was part of the personality, the name that is...

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

So yes, the explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do are obviously not correct as it is plainly being done. 

---

The explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do may have been misremembered/misunderstood. Here's a quote from Rodvik's response...

"But back to the matter at hand. As I promised if we couldn’t figure out a way that was a win/win for folks who want complete freedom vs. a list of last names, we wouldn’t do it. We couldn’t, so we wont."

Rodvik said a win/win solution couldn't be found. I did not read this as a technical statement so much as a business decision. Yes, both single and last name systems are still in operation. That is different than Linden Labs stating, as I quoted

here

, that the last name system created a lot of sign-up friction. While it is often technically possible to do unwise things, that doesn't mean you should. That said, I'm not recommending we stop questioning LL's wisdom, just that we remember they see more than we do.

I find the widespread supposition that forumites are representative of the larger SL population to be a bit a bit presumptive. We might be, but LL suggests otherwise, both directly (that previous quote) and indirectly (by their actions).

---

I don't believe anyone has stated that the forumites represent the Second Life population as a whole. It is only because forumites post on the forums that our thoughts and opinions are heard more than those that don't. 

However, a casual Google search of the terms Second Life and Last Names will bring up quite a few non forum discussions of what other persons think of the last name fiasco. I will admit, prior to it being brought up again in this thread, it is pretty much a dead issue. I do believe, as has been stated, that as the legacy names die off, last names will just be something for the archives.

What I find odd about LL wisdom, is that in the short time I have existed, many LL decisions have come and gone, whereas many of the residents that are vocal throughout the web have been here for quite awhile, so I would question who has more experience to draw this supposed wisdom from.

[Clarissa Lowell]

Maybe it is true that Second Life is a social experiment and this is another part of it.

Maybe there is a law coming about user names not resembling real names, who knows.

[Charolotte Caxton]

I hope not! That will make both you and I criminals! lol  

[Clarissa Lowell]

*cue dramatic music and 1950s black and white grainy Tv colors*

Here quick! Run for the hideout! *throws a basic black Mardi Gras mask* 

"There, that'll work!"

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

So yes, the explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do are obviously not correct as it is plainly being done. 

---

The explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do may have been misremembered/misunderstood. Here's a quote from Rodvik's response...

"But back to the matter at hand. As I promised if we couldn’t figure out a way that was a win/win for folks who want complete freedom vs. a list of last names, we wouldn’t do it. We couldn’t, so we wont."

Rodvik said a win/win solution couldn't be found. I did not read this as a technical statement so much as a business decision. Yes, both single and last name systems are still in operation. That is different than Linden Labs stating, as I quoted

here

, that the last name system created a lot of sign-up friction. While it is often technically possible to do unwise things, that doesn't mean you should. That said, I'm not recommending we stop questioning LL's wisdom, just that we remember they see more than we do.

I find the widespread supposition that forumites are representative of the larger SL population to be a bit a bit presumptive. We might be, but LL suggests otherwise, both directly (that previous quote) and indirectly (by their actions).

---

I don't believe anyone has stated that the forumites represent the Second Life population as a whole. It is only because forumites post on the forums that our thoughts and opinions are heard more than those that don't. 

However, a casual Google search of the terms Second Life and Last Names will bring up quite a few non forum discussions of what other persons think of the last name fiasco. I will admit, prior to it being brought up again in this thread, it is pretty much a dead issue. I do believe, as has been stated, that as the legacy names die off, last names will just be something for the archives.

What I find odd about LL wisdom, is that in the short time I have existed, many LL decisions have come and gone, whereas many of the residents that are vocal throughout the web have been here for quite awhile, so I would question who has more experience to draw this supposed wisdom from.

---

It's stated indirectly, every day. A statement like "I don't understand why LL ignores the will of the residents" issued by a forumite (and you've heard plenty of statements to this effect) either implies that the forumite experience represents the larger SL population, or that the person making the statement has access to a statistically significant sampling of the SL population's thoughts on the subject.

The total population of all external SL related forums/blogs/etc pales in comparison to the total SL signups (25+ Million as of last Autumn) or even concurrency (which is now below 50,000 and still falling). What we have here is called "selection bias".

As I said, I question LL's wisdom every day. You make a valid point about LL decisions which come and go (or schedules/promises not kept). That's not affected by selection bias, nor are the large scale statistics I've linked to. However, selection bias does not go away just because your selections are aging. Whether one is not representative of a population for one year or a thousand makes no difference ;-)

[Charolotte Caxton]

I don't understand why LL ignores the will of the residents

No, you are right, most people inworld I am sure could care less what the new persons' names are, except maybe the helpers, they just try to do the best they can and explain to the unfortunate new people why their names cannot look like theirs, but the new people have been here long enough to have formed their own generation of residents, so like I said, the name issue is mostly over.

The Last Name Jira was only able to get 2500 votes, at 50,000 concurrency, that is only like what, 5 percent of the entire Second Life population? 

Not sure what to think of those numbers, but it doesn't matter, the last name issue has been decided, for now. Who knows, maybe in the next cycle they will be introduced as a new 'Feature'.

 

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

The Last Name Jira was only able to get 2500 votes, at 50,000 concurrency, that is only like what, 5 percent of the entire Second Life population? 

Not sure what to think of those numbers, but it doesn't matter, the last name issue has been decided, for now. Who knows, maybe in the next cycle they will be introduced as a new 'Feature'. 

---

That doesn't mean that the other 95% of users don't agree with the jira. It only means that (probably) most of them haven't seen it. I think it's probable that a large majority of users aren't aware that the jira system exists, and I also think it's probable that many or most of those who are aware of it, such as me, don't bother with it unless someone prompts them to a specific jira, the subject of which interrests them. On the whole, I'd say that the jira system isn't used by the population so new jiras need promoting or *very* few people will ever know of their existance.

 

On the side-topic of forumites thinking that we represent the views of the SL population:-

I'd speculate that forum concensus almost certainly would represent the views of the SL population, if the population's view could be ascertained. But LL can't ascertain the population's view, so forums are the best guage there is.

It would be interesting to randomly ask users with the "Resident" last name if they would prefer to have a proper last name, selected from a long list. My guess is that the majority would reflect the views expressed by the majority forum view, i.e. proper last names.

 

Mere comment:-

Having "Resident" as a last name is having no last name at all - literally.

[161488303349]

is some good points you made

the interwebz is all about signups. more = better. better like instagram better. not better better like normal people think

+

if was me then i would leave it as it is on the webpage. just to get the signup. after you dl the program and log into SL for the first time then i would ask you to make your permanent inworld name. and make all the options (including a lastname or not as you like) available at that time

everyone happy this way

1) world owner (linden) happy bc they got the signup and login

2) your login name  that no one can know inworld, is not the same as your permanent inworld name which everyone can know like normal. is more secure for users that way

can take as long as you like picking a perrmanent name. until you do then you cant transfer stuff to other people or give or receive lindens$. can only receive stuff. you just Explorer#112113231282104812 Resident until you choose to be somebody by making your name

can have whatever name you want thats not already taken this way and can do at your own time

+

easiest way i think to do the pick a name is on the profile web thingy. like how displaynames is done. but is one time only

can then also make displaynames into a roleplay name/titler which you can change anytime you want

[Ossian1488303077]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

So yes, the explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do are obviously not correct as it is plainly being done. 

---

The explanations that it would be too difficult or impossible to do may have been misremembered/misunderstood. Here's a quote from Rodvik's response...

"But back to the matter at hand. As I promised if we couldn’t figure out a way that was a win/win for folks who want complete freedom vs. a list of last names, we wouldn’t do it. We couldn’t, so we wont."

Rodvik said a win/win solution couldn't be found. I did not read this as a technical statement so much as a business decision. Yes, both single and last name systems are still in operation. That is different than Linden Labs stating, as I quoted

here

, that the last name system created a lot of sign-up friction. While it is often technically possible to do unwise things, that doesn't mean you should.

I find the widespread supposition that forumites are representative of the larger SL population to be a bit a bit presumptive. We might be, but LL suggests otherwise, both directly (that previous quote) and indirectly (by their actions).

All that said, I'm not recommending we stop questioning LL's wisdom (I do it constantly), just that we remember they see more than we do.

---

You're right about what Rodvik said, but in the past, before display names and single-name signup, LL was often asked if they could create a means by which users could change their names.  And to be clear, no one meant "change on the fly". The context was always "I have a stupid name and a huge inventory, so I'd like to change my name (permanently)." As part of those requests, users also expressed their willness to *pay* for the change.

LL's response was that it was for technical reasons not possible or too difficult.