Group Photo idea

[Luc Starsider]

Right. Finally read all the posts. Please disregard most of my last post. It's been covered - as expected, really.

I LOVE Charolottes idea of a photomosaic! This would be my favourite idea, but it may be difficult to manage without a LOT of work. Which is why I will support Tamaras suggestion here, or a variation of the idea. This seems to me to have the best chance of working. (Awsome pictures, btw, Tamara!) A group shot sounds great and all, but, for the same reasons others have pointed out, I think it may be a bit messy.

Do we need to create a list of what has been done and what needs to be done to make this a success? Perhaps we do this in world?

Oh, btw. Like Tamara, I too am 9 hours ahead of SL time.

- Luc -

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Knowl Paine wrote:

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Editor in Chief, Dresden Wrote:

As far as editing, the only way I can see having any sort of consistency would be to have one person be in charge of editing, an editor in chief, if you will.  This person would be the one to make sure that all the pictures are processed correctly

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

I agree completely; is that person you?

Honorary Quality control engineer; or Official.

Electronic Imaging management specialist.

I don't believe that I can bribe you with cheap titles, but it's worth a try :smileyvery-happy:

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Ha... nice try.  The idea of taking on that much responsibility is daunting, but not out of the question.  "We'll see," will have to do for now.

...Dres

[Perrie Juran]

Another possibility is to use Gigapan.  Check out this image for an idea of what it can do panning and zooming in on the image.

http://gigapan.com/galleries/6967/gigapans/75081

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

Here's an idea... how about something along the lines of the Beatles' Sgt Pepper's Lonely hearts Club Band album cover?

Except without the flowers and palm tree and drum... kind of like a sea of faces, only with a bit more torso showing.  That way, it could be a bit like the Hippiestock photo but we wouldn't need a background... and yet, it still wouldn't be like individual pictures set side by side.

Until we decide exactly what we're doing, there's no way we can write a notecard with instructions... though I have ideas about that as well.  I'm thinking that we'd need to create a standard photo booth... by standard, I mean wherever we put it, everything has to be the same.  We can even light them all the same and direct people to use a simple windlight setting when taking the pics... such as default midday.  No shadows or DoF, because not everyone can use them.  Of course, this is only if we are going to want to make it seem as if everyone is in the same shot... if not then it doesn't matter.

I will say that I really like the idea of the photomosaic.  By not having restrictions on the photo taking process and not having to cut out backgrounds, it's a lot easier for people to submit pics and for the editors to process them.  But at the same time, it's not just pics set side by side... which, let's face it, has been done already.  Of course, then we'd have to decide on what the merged image should look like.

Also, if we go the photomosaic route, there's no way I could be in charge of putting it together because I'm partially color blind.  And though I do have work arounds for my disability, the process would be painstakingly slow and tedious for me.

...Dres

[Hippie Bowman]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Here's an idea... how about something along the lines of the Beatles' Sgt Pepper's Lonely hearts Club Band album cover?

Except without the flowers and palm tree and drum... kind of like a sea of faces, only with a bit more torso showing.  That way, it could be a bit like the Hippiestock photo but we wouldn't need a background... and yet, it still wouldn't be like individual pictures set side by side.

Until we decide exactly what we're doing, there's no way we can write a notecard with instructions... though I have ideas about that as well.  I'm thinking that we'd need to create a standard photo booth... by standard, I mean wherever we put it, everything has to be the same.  We can even light them all the same and direct people to use a simple windlight setting when taking the pics... such as default midday.  No shadows or DoF, because not everyone can use them.  Of course, this is only if we are going to want to make it seem as if everyone is in the same shot... if not then it doesn't matter.

I will say that I really like the idea of the photomosaic.  By not having restrictions on the photo taking process and not having to cut out backgrounds, it's a lot easier for people to submit pics and for the editors to process them.  But at the same time, it's not just pics set side by side... which, let's face it, has been done already.  Of course, then we'd have to decide on what the merged image should look like.

Also, if we go the photomosaic route, there's no way I could be in charge of putting it together because I'm partially color blind.  And though I do have work arounds for my disability, the process would be painstakingly slow and tedious for me.

...Dres

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Great Idea Dres.  Kind of like the Hippiestock 1 group shot.

Well my offer still stands.  If someone would organize the shoot, I can supply the land for it!  Let me know!

 

Peace!

[Luc Starsider]

I was thinking of names... Perhaps it is a silly idea, idk.

A minimum of 500 people in the pic has been mentioned, and that made me think of 500px which is about awsome pictures. This project has the potential of resulting in a bunch of awsome pictures too, so I was thinking - how about calling the project 500PXSL? Don't know if it's even allowed...

- Luc -

[Knowl Paine]

To: Dilbert, thanks for joining. What the final product will look like has not yet been defined. I have created a sample image of my version of the final product. I will send a copy of the folder with snapshots showing my idea.
It's only my version, I'm very flexible on the design of the final product. If I, or the group like another style better, we will go with that style.
Kudos on the Destination Guide, yes.



To: Irene, I will send an Invite to the Support Group so you have an inside track on the events. We will definitely need help in the Promotional Group. The Promotional Group, may change it's Name, if the Volunteers think it is in the Project's best interest. ty


To: Tamara, I will send an invite to you asap.


To: Hippie, awesome! Welcome aboard. I will send you an Invite, or any other Group Officer can invite you (as an Officer) if they login before me. We could use some land, ty  


To: Uncommon, In my version of the image, Editors would only have to work with 5 images at a time, I will send every Group Officer a folder with some sample photos I took in SL.


To: Luc, I'm trying to organize the best I can. We are a team, I have full faith in all of the Volunteers.
In the short time I was able to communicate with Charolotte and Peggy, I feel that we made good progress. Interacting in SL is far more effective than here at the Forum. I believe that by the end of the Weekend, we should have most of the details covered and have everybody on the same page. If you have an idea, or a plan of action, please do share that with Group. Anything written should be sent in a Group Notice along with any attachments. The Notice section will serve as an Archive, and help other Officers to see where we are at in the plan.
I will review any notices daily and if there is a change, I will post an updated notice.
A catchy slogan, logo, name may still be needed.  


To: Perrie, that Gigapan looks sensational. I will send you a copy of the Folder with images I made yesterday, it's a very crude example of how I picture the idea, but something like gigapan could enhance it.
On the Data storage angle, We should question if it is wise to "give" the data to a completely unrelated to SL 3rd party. That's way I was preaching about allowing Linden Lab to help us.
Dear Rodvik, please forward one server, thank you. I've delayed asking LL for anything, because I didn't know what to ask for.

If LL could help in addition to just being a provider of SL; what might they be able to contribute?


To: Dresden, Doesn't hurt to try; unless they charge you with bribery.

I'm open on the final design.... with one limitation, no Crowley.

 

 

If I missed any comments, I will update later. I will be Inworld shortly to send a few invites, and will then be back later today. 

Many thanks to all the people who helped us get this far. :smileyhappy:

[Charolotte Caxton]

Ok, a few things. One, group names cannot be changed, but we can discard them and make new ones if we want a different name.

Two, I really like Dresden's reasons for why a photomosaic might be the best route. Some points of his that I would like to highlight are that there would be no need for background removal and in fact anyone could have any background they like, or none at all. Also, with as many photos as we wish to accumulate, having one large photo that looks cool in its entirety but that you can zoom in to see individual avatars I think is a cool idea. I would also like to add that it may be less work for editors if backgrounds don't have to be removed and may in fact make standard photo settings unnecessary.

That leads me to three, I think 500 is way too low of a number to aim for, for the largest amount of participating avatars as possible, at a minimum I would like to offer at least ten percent of the total SL population as the minimum goal. What is that number? I don't know but if concurrent users are at around 60 thousand that would be 6 thousand photos. Why so many? I think the original vision was to get all residents in one photo.

Four, more photos would make for a better mosaic, if that is the route we wish to take, and if we agree that the more photos the better, it may be the only plausible route, I can think that there are only 3 options for a final product.

1. Group Photo

2. Side by side photos in rows and columns

3. Photomosaic

1 would seem unrealistic because everyone knows you can't fit more than 40? avatars on one sim at a time. Even if, the editing process would be time consuming.

2 may seem too bland for what we want.

3 would allow for the most diversity in style of individual photos

Ok, so basically, we need a decision on the final product, and we cannot move much more forward until we decide on that. Once we do, I see no reason why LL needs to be asked for anything other than promotion, through the destination guide, log in screen, face book and Google plus.

There are enough residents that have land, resources, skill, and interest.

This I believe is a Resident project, Second Life has already provided us a world, it is up to us what to do with it.

However, any help and support we can get from them would be very much welcome, because, this is , after all, a Second Life project.

 

[Luc Starsider]

I agree that a decision on the final product is needed.

I'm wondering about the photomosaic - how easy is it to make it work that you can zoom in on a 'tile' for a detailed picture?

- Luc -

[Perrie Juran]

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Knowl Paine wrote:

 

To:

Perrie

, that Gigapan looks sensational. I will send you a copy of the Folder with images I made yesterday, it's a very crude example of how I picture the idea, but something like gigapan could enhance it.

On the Data storage angle, We should question if it is wise to "give" the data to a completely unrelated to SL 3rd party. That's way I was preaching about allowing Linden Lab to help us.

Dear Rodvik

, please forward one server, thank you. I've delayed asking LL for anything, because I didn't know what to ask for.

 

If LL could help in addition to just being a provider of SL; what might they be able to contribute

 

 

 

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I've not used Gigapan, am just aware of it.  I don't know how many mega bytes of data are in the picture i linked or what type of hosting it takes other than it works with Adobe Flash Player to view and zoom.  So I don't know that I would be able to help with it.

Too bad we can't post links to Rodvik's feed but this might be something that Torley would be interested in.

[Perrie Juran]

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Luc Starsider wrote:

I agree that a decision on the final product is needed.

I'm wondering about the photomosaic - how easy is it to make it work that you can zoom in on a 'tile' for a detailed picture?

- Luc -

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See the link to Gigapan I posted above.

I'll try to do some more reading on it this week end.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Charo, I'm not disputing anything you mentioned.  But I do want to comment on a couple things.  I agree a "photo wall" with images placed side by side would be a little bland (boring?).  A collage could be made instead that would look a little better but still just about as easy to edit......I'm not in love with that idea but a little more so than the "photo wall" idea. 

Here's my take on the photo mosaic idea.  The mosiac part would become the subject of the project instead of the users' images.  The photo mosiac, as the focal point, is quite impressive and very artist looking.  But what do we want to emphasize?  The mosiac or the residents of SL?  I think the residents should be the subject and whatever means of displaying the residents (the subject) should be secondary.  Think of art galleries.....the art is the subject and frame the art is in is secondary so that the viewers look at the art, not the gold enlaid frame it is mounted in. 

I know editing would be easier if all that was necessary would be to crop the photos and resize for presentation.  The original idea (as I remember it) was to have a "group shot" put together by editing out whatever background was in the original image and then placing those cut-outs on another background as a group appearing to pose together as the same time at the same location would be somewhat more difficult to do......and certainly more time comsuming.  But the advantage is that it would look much more natural to a viewer of the final combined image and the subject (the residents) would be the focal point of the image.  Depending on the background to be removed the cutting could be difficult or easy.  The photos with a busy or similar background to what the resident is wearing in the photo would be the most difficult and photos with the background very unlike the resident would be the easiest.  I've done it both ways with both SL snapshots and real life images (I've even combined the two to create a mixture of both real life and Second Life into a single image).  Removing the backgrounds took required about 90% of the total time to make the final image.......I do remember one image taking me a couple hours to remove the background but I also remember a few taking only a few minutes.  There are things I found out that I had not thought of when I first tried doing it...........the scale of the images need to match up closely to each other so that detail is uniform between the different images once everything is merged into one image.  Another is the color quality must be close too.  Those two things present a potential issue for allowing user submitted photos for inclusion in the group photo (different graphics card will have different resolution capabilities and the colors will not necessarily be the same........all graphics collors are callibrated differently by default and each user will have different preferences about what looks best).  On the resolution part that can be pretty much over come with cropping and small amounts of resizing after the cropping (unless the resolution is very low minor adjustments won't be noticed).  The potential color difference would be a problem though.  Another plus is that, in a "group photo" I can see many more avatars in the single image (maybe a couple hundred).

I did some calculations (but haven't verified if it would work by actually trying it in world).  Using each image to be included on the final image resolution at 128 by 128 pixels (that's a fairly small image but I'm pretty sure large enough to maintain a level of detail good enough to be able to identify the image's subject), you can get 32 images on a 1024 by 1024 pixel image (the largest you can upload to SL).......that's placing each image side by side and top to bottom without any overlap.  If the display is a prim cube you can place a different image on each face.  The top and bottom of the cube would not easily viewable so throw them out, leaving four faces per cube..........giving 128 images on each cube (4 x 32).  That wold make 10 cubes to display 1,280 residents.  This project could get prim heavy quickly.

I'm not one to endorse a web based presentation because, as I see it now, there is a lot of SL related stuff already web based (Market Place for example) and that discourages users from going in world.  In my eyes, that's the exact opposite of what I would like to see........get people in world instead of directing them out of the world.  But, the media on a prim idea looks like a good compromise.  I don't know how it works specifically but I think I know enough of the basics to see where it might be a solution to the prim method of displaying in world......we could be talking about 50 or 60 prims just to place the images on to present for viewing.  Someone might know more about media on a prim and could shed more light on that possibility (like how is the media streamed to the prim and what are the costs....such as required bandwidth, hosting, or other costs).

I'm leaning to the group photo idea regardless of the editing work required (I believe the end result would be worth the extra work and effort).  That along with the media on a prim idea seem to be a good combination.  Using the group photo method, quite a few more avatars can be included on the 1024 by 1024 uploaded image but it would still require several prims to display all the residents images.

I'm flexible and will go with whatever the majority wants and decides..........but those are me thoughts at the moment.  I reserve the right to change me mind. 

One more thought.  We've had two people volunteer land and server space.  I know neither Hippie or Dilbert have even hinted at compensation for their donations of server space or land space........niether of those things are free.  I will lobby hard and long for tip jars, at the very least, to help pay for the real life costs for providing that kind of support for the project.  I, for one, appreciate both Hippie and Dilbert for their generous support.  Thank you both. 

[Luc Starsider]

That would work it seems.

From browsing some of the info on the site, it seems someone can create a free, basic account and create a gallery. Who would that someone be? Also, there is the issue of stitching software. I didn't check prices on GigaPan's own software, but other stitching tools can be used.

I also don't know, as Knowl mentioned early on in the thread, whether it is possible to embed information about the avatars in the panorama that could be revealed as you zoom in. (If that made sense...)

- Luc -

[Luc Starsider]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I did some calculations (but haven't verified if it would work by actually trying it in world).  Using each image to be included on the final image

resolution at 128 by 128 pixels (that's a fairly small image but I'm pretty sure large enough to maintain a level of detail good enough to be able to identify the image's subject),

you can get 32 images on a 1024 by 1024 pixel image (the largest you can upload to SL).......that's placing each image side by side and top to bottom without any overlap.  If the display is a prim cube you can place a different image on each face.  The top and bottom of the cube would not easily viewable so throw them out, leaving four faces per cube..........giving 128 images on each cube (4 x 32).  That wold make 10 cubes to display 1,280 residents.  This project could get prim heavy quickly.

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128 by 128 might be on the small side. It depends if you want more than just enough detail to make out the subject. Personally I would like to go a bit closer and study the pictures closer...

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I'm not one to endorse a web based presentation because, as I see it now, there is a lot of SL related stuff already web based (Market Place for example) and

that discourages users from going in world

.  In my eyes, that's the exact opposite of what I would like to see........get people in world instead of directing them out of the world.  But, the media on a prim idea looks like a good compromise.  I don't know how it works specifically but I think I know enough of the basics to see where it might be a solution to the prim method of displaying in world......we could be talking about 50 or 60 prims just to place the images on to present for viewing.  Someone might know more about media on a prim and could shed more light on that possibility (like how is the media streamed to the prim and what are the costs....such as required bandwidth, hosting, or other costs).

I'm leaning to the group photo idea regardless of the editing work required (I believe the end result would be worth the extra work and effort).  That along with the media on a prim idea seem to be a good combination.  Using the group photo method, quite a few more avatars can be included on the 1024 by 1024 uploaded image but it would still require several prims to display all the residents images.

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Agreed!

Which is why MOAP seems like a usable idea. GigaPan that Perry Juran suggested could also be included this way so long as MOAP works with Flash.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

One more thought.  We've had two people volunteer land and server space.  I know neither Hippie or Dilbert have even hinted at compensation for their donations of server space or land space........niether of those things are free.  I will lobby hard and long for tip jars, at the very least, to help pay for the real life costs for providing that kind of support for the project.  I, for one, appreciate both Hippie and Dilbert for their generous support.  Thank you both. 

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I'll join you in this and thank both Hippie and Dilbert!

- Luc -

[Hippie Bowman]

Thank you Peggy!  It's my pleasure, and I am sure Dilbert's too!

 

Peace!

[Knowl Paine]

To: Charolotte, I'm reminded of what Irene said, "fun, interesting and simple".

To: Peggy, my concept may fall into the bland category. I like bland food.


Let's give the Group 24 hours to submit concepts. By tomorrow at this time, we will render a decision.


Allowing all types of photos would simplify process.


Once we complete our project, we will still have the Images, we could explore other uses then.


I want what the Group wants.



To: Perrie, I was looking at the awesomeness of Torley's Profile yesterday! A coincidence. Maybe someone can contact Torley.

 

 

 

I will be in SL later today.  Any sample concepts from any (legal) sources, are welcomed.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Peggy, I like your ideas. In fact, if we could get a decent looking group shot I agree that would be the best course of action, I am just concerned about the sheer volume of work that would be involved. However, if we can imagine it it can be done so I support your idea one hundred percent.

As far as being anti web, which of course I respect your feelings on this, I will have to disagree a bit. Think, this discussion and planning is taking place on the web, in world only Knowl and I have met, I agree being inworld is better, but not to the exclusion of the web.

Knowl, this can be anything but bland. If we wanted bland we would just put up a white cube and call it, Imagine.

[Tamara Artis]

Yessah!

Thanks everyone for being interested and for helping:)

Now, Knowl's first idea was to make a huge wall and display life-size photos of avatars. That wall to be on the edge of a sim, right Knowl? And he mentioned something that could take out the background so we have only avatar. Well back then I think I didn't understand him right. Today he sent me a folder with his concept, explained all, and I made something. First version! I still need to see the right sizes so the final pics don't look too blurry. 

 

I made them dance lol, now this is one prim, texture is 512x512, applied only to the front side,  but it could also be 1024x512 with 10 avatars. Meaning we need 100 prims for 1000 avatars and any resident that comes to see it would just walk along this wall. (it could also be a labyrinth:p )

Comments please.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Omg I love it! Especially the walking along a labyrinth concept!

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Tamara Artis wrote:

Yessah!

Thanks everyone for being interested and for helping:)

Now, Knowl's first idea was to make a huge wall and display life-size photos of avatars. That wall to be on the edge of a sim, right Knowl? And he mentioned something that could take out the background so we have only avatar. Well back then I think I didn't understand him right. Today he sent me a folder with his concept, explained all, and I made something. First version! I still need to see the right sizes so the final pics don't look too blurry. 

 

I made them dance lol, now this is one prim, texture is 512x512, applied only to the front side,  but it could also be 1024x512 with 10 avatars. Meaning we need 100 prims for 1000 avatars and any resident that comes to see it would just walk along this wall. (it could also be a labyrinth:p )

Comments please.

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That's a cool idea.  Just a suggestion... test the image at half the size and see how much definition you lose.  That many different textures will take a while to load as it is, so smaller would be better... if we can get away with it.

...Dres

[Tamara Artis]

Oki Will do:)

 

[Dilbert Dilweg]

Thank you Peggy always a pleasure to help

 

[Knowl Paine]

That is an accurate interpretation Tamara, thank you.

Two of the challenges with this concept are, extensive photo editing, and collecting photos of Residents at the proper scale.

Tall Residents should appear tall and shorter Residents as short. One way to do this that has been mentioned was by using a Hud.

A device that will take photos from a set viewing angle, at a set distance.

A mechanical version might be a platform with a "stand here" marking, and a look through "here" point for the camera.

 

I like your example photo :smileyhappy: very lively.

A question: what dance, is the avatar on the far right dancing to? :smileyvery-happy:

 

I will meet with members of the Group, We can review our options, and will have a concept by tomorrow at this time.

 

 

[Tamara Artis]

256 no. It looks like something you would call "My first photo"

 

[Tamara Artis]

hahaha dance is one of the 7 deadly sins, dunno which one:p

I can't wait for tomorrow to see where are we with the whole project! Atm I'm stuck, I tried to take snapshots at different sizes, scale them and all, but we need to decide, either to have big textures that take longer to rez or small ones that look bad... I'm for big ones:)

And we need to advertise, get as many people as possible, different avatars, to have all possible genders and species and whatever you can find in SL. Maybe to make this project lasts longer, take it slow, work harder and get the best possible results...