Charolotte Caxton Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ok. We get that. We don't want to lag anyone down. Why do you keep bringing up my experience? I have a great system, I never lag and I hardly ever crash since I switched to Exodus from the V3. However, I don't want for money and this is a game for me, each users experience and life situation will differ. What do you want me to do, download a 1.23 and run at minimum settings? No. I will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 No, I don't want you to anything. I mentioned your experience vs my experience for one reason and one reason only. You have issues with lag on a good system. I did not (also on a good system......not a high end system. Just a little better than average). You're system is better than what most people have and if you had issues, the very likely (almost a lead pipe cinche) that a lot of other users are going to have issues too. That's my concern with our project. We say that just because my system won't have issues (which I probably wouldn't) that we can say the residents visiting the site won't so it's not a problem. It is a potential huge problem that will only show up once we get well into the project.........after a huge amount of work has been done to create the display. Waiting for that to happen is waiting for the world to explode around our goals. I said it before, but got convinced to change my mind..........I'm not going to participate in this forum discussion anymore. I'm rubbing too many people wrong with my concerns and my insistance that we think seriously about what we are doing that will effect the outcome of the project. I volunteered to edit.............so that's what I'm going to do. Tell exactly what you want, how to get the images to edit, how to return the edited images for assembly and putting in place for the display. I'll do what you give me and let the project go where ever it goes....good, bad or somewhere in between. You want my opinions ask me directly.......otherwise I'm shutting the hell up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Why? Why would you shut the hell up? Because I asked you for clarification? You think you are upsetting people and you are not, you are presenting real issues to a project that we all want to see work. If you have dissenting views than they need to be expressed, if this was a photo project by me for me so that I could view on my system, alone, then I would tell you to shove off. However, this is a community project envisioned by Knowl that I wish to support and have the most available amount of participants and viewers available as possible. So, as has been said before, stop thinking this is all about you and listen to what is being said. Read twice if you need to, we consider you an integral part of the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowl Paine Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Hello ALL, I apologize for the delay in some of the planning. Progress is being made and some steps require that only the people involved in a Role are in a "need to know". Please reference your Role in the Group when looking to see how you might best help the project. I believe that our Group meeting on Sunday will help to answers some questions that need to be answered. Please be patient. I will try to update each Group Member today, with the information I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Sorry, that is not true Char. The concerns that's I've so far is concerns for the project only and the people (you, Knowl, Dres, Luc, Tamara, and others who have voluteered in one way or another). I can mention a statement by Knowl last night when we chatting at the new meeting site. The statement that he was very concerned about the "workload" put on editors and wanted to limit the number of images to download for editing to 10 at a time. As far as I could tell his concern that putting 20 avatars on a single prim is too much work because 10 would be easier..........that's BS. It's easier to put 20 on single texture than 10. It's easier to put a hundred avatars on a single texture than 10. It's the files that you have be created to save each texture to to return the edited images for placement. How is it easier to edit 10 textures at a time for each different texture to return than 20 (or 40, or 50, or.......)? Photoshop, GIMP, Paint Shop Pro, and even Paint.NET can handle as many layers as you want on a single texture. Put a hundred on one texture it's easier than putting 10 each on 10 separate textrues. Worrying about the editors tells me that we are not concerned about the residents.........we are concerned about the project volunteers Each volunteer did so knowing what is required to accomplish what we want........if we did not then maybe we shouldn't have volunteered at all. I've heard too many references to that sort of "concern" and not enough about the very people we are supposedly doing this for and requesting their cooperation in the for submitting images for our project. Now I'm back to lurking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Any time i build sometyhing, that is always the first concern, to ensure the best optimization possible.. For most of us veterans. It is automatic.. Done without being said lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Muni Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: We haven't started promoting the project because we have not agreed on what the project is. Right now, all we would be promoting is an idea, its hard to get people to submit something to an idea, especially since we haven't even agreed on how or where to submit photos to. Once we get a final decision on what we are doing and how to do it and how to contribute to it, we are going to advertise and promote using all the possible venues available to us. Right now, all we could say is, contribute to the avatar project! yay! what is it? a bunch of avatar photos! cool! how do I participate? um, I don't know... No, we don't want that. I think that I have never said anything about it. If I have said it was my mistake or my poor English language, sorry. In any case. I agree with the last post of Knowl, I go to focus on my work: translation into Spanish when all is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 If I may... Peggy. For the record. I share your concern regarding the textures in the final display (or displays). I also agree with you about scripts. I believe there is a real possibliity that textures are going to be the biggest contributor to viewer lag for the visitors. The texture issue - if I don't remember inforrectly - was one of the first concerns of mine when I joined the discussion (but please correct me if I'm wrong). I have agreed with you in a few of my posts, but may not have managed to get it across properly. What I previously have argued for, is to try to try to get higher resolution images to work with in editing and preparing the final images. This is not a major concern, so I have left that discussion alone. In this aspect, I'll go with the groups decision. I'm also thinking - I haven't put huge amounts of thought into it, so I may adjust my view - that putting 20 avatars in one final texture is not going to be much different than putting 10 avatars on it. The editing job, as far as I'm concerned, will be removing backgrounds and not adding them to the final texture. These are technical issues that we are going to have to iron out. You know lots about the subject, and carry a lot of weight in the discussion - for me, and I suspect probably for others as well. In the end, we are trying to work as a team, creating the best result we can. For us, those who contribute pictures and for those visiting the display. About the 1000 avatar project. I visited and was surprised that I got as good performance as I did for a while. I had not expected that, but lagged out after a while. The number and size of the textures got the better of my Mac, and in the end I couldn't move. Perhaps we can get Gracie to tell us what size the textures are? And now I've written enough - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 "... Perhaps we can get Gracie to tell us what size the textures are?" -------------------------------------------------------------- That certainly would be helpful, along with the total texture count for the project. But on the image size, it's sort of irrelevant since we already know we are going to be required to use textures that have, at least, one dimension at 1024 pixels. That means that each texture is going to be large (larger than most requirements for textures in SL but for any chance of quality we have to go with it). I'm pretty sure Gracie's textures are smaller than the size we are pushed into........a 256 by 256 texture delivers a pretty darn good quality (even for a snapshot of an avatar). What I saw was a very goo level of detail and quality and suspect the textures used were 512 by 512..........that's entirely a guess since I have no way of know the resolution of the textures she used. I really doubt those textures were 1024 at any dimension. That meass they were smaller than what we are going to use (possibly significantly smaller). The lagging down after a few minutes indicates your graphics abilities on your computer are working harder than what they are capable to working for sustained, continuous rendering (you are probably running out of video memory). Each individual's computer and it's associated hardware will be different. The system (not the viewer, the computer system itself) has a lot to do with it too. We cannot do anything about any of that except make it as easy as we possibly can for the average user and maintain a reasonable level of quality. I'm just trying to find out that that "reasonable level or quality" is. I've met a lot of resistance on that (plus a couple of other things)..........that has caused a little bit of friction so I'm lowering my rhetoric a little. I want a defined project, the goals, who we plan to get to those goals plus the logistics (recieving the images, obtaining the images for edit after we've recieved them, returning the images after editing, some way to tie to the images to the residents who have submitted............a whole long list) Some of what I want cannot be gotten until we have a defined "mission" and a "mission goal". We are not there yet..........I'm not sure are even close. So my ruffling of feathers at this stage is really unnecessary so I'm going to stop injection my concerns until we get something done about priorties and ojbectives. Sorry if you or anyone else cannot understand where I'm coming from and the reasons I put out my concerns. As far as anything that has broadly (broadly because I don't know exactly what we want to do and how we want to get there) mentioned there's nothing that I cannot do for the portion of the project that I've volunteered for. I wanted to try to arrive at the things that need to be arrived at before we can go forward but that has caused friction so I'll let someone else take up my slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: "... Perhaps we can get Gracie to tell us what size the textures are?" -------------------------------------------------------------- That certainly would be helpful, along with the total texture count for the project. But on the image size, it's sort of irrelevant since we already know we are going to be required to use textures that have, at least, one dimension at 1024 pixels. That means that each texture is going to be large (larger than most requirements for textures in SL but for any chance of quality we have to go with it). I'm pretty sure Gracie's textures are smaller than the size we are pushed into........a 256 by 256 texture delivers a pretty darn good quality (even for a snapshot of an avatar). What I saw was a very goo level of detail and quality and suspect the textures used were 512 by 512..........that's entirely a guess since I have no way of know the resolution of the textures she used. I really doubt those textures were 1024 at any dimension. That meass they were smaller than what we are going to use (possibly significantly smaller). The lagging down after a few minutes indicates your graphics abilities on your computer are working harder than what they are capable to working for sustained, continuous rendering (you are probably running out of video memory). Each individual's computer and it's associated hardware will be different. The system (not the viewer, the computer system itself) has a lot to do with it too. We cannot do anything about any of that except make it as easy as we possibly can for the average user and maintain a reasonable level of quality. I'm just trying to find out that that "reasonable level or quality" is. I've met a lot of resistance on that (plus a couple of other things)..........that has caused a little bit of friction so I'm lowering my rhetoric a little. I want a defined project, the goals, who we plan to get to those goals plus the logistics (recieving the images, obtaining the images for edit after we've recieved them, returning the images after editing, some way to tie to the images to the residents who have submitted............a whole long list) Some of what I want cannot be gotten until we have a defined "mission" and a "mission goal". We are not there yet..........I'm not sure are even close. So my ruffling of feathers at this stage is really unnecessary so I'm going to stop injection my concerns until we get something done about priorties and ojbectives. Sorry if you or anyone else cannot understand where I'm coming from and the reasons I put out my concerns. As far as anything that has broadly (broadly because I don't know exactly what we want to do and how we want to get there) mentioned there's nothing that I cannot do for the portion of the project that I've volunteered for. I wanted to try to arrive at the things that need to be arrived at before we can go forward but that has caused friction so I'll let someone else take up my slack. Your concerns are for the base SL user, correct? I question what the base SL user is. I do not believe it is someone on an antiquated system, running no graphics. I consider that a fringe extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I need to keep this short. I'm tired and have to go sleep. Peggy Paperdoll wrote: "... Perhaps we can get Gracie to tell us what size the textures are?" -------------------------------------------------------------- That certainly would be helpful, along with the total texture count for the project. But on the image size, it's sort of irrelevant since we already know we are going to be required to use textures that have, at least, one dimension at 1024 pixels. That means that each texture is going to be large (larger than most requirements for textures in SL but for any chance of quality we have to go with it). I'm pretty sure Gracie's textures are smaller than the size we are pushed into........a 256 by 256 texture delivers a pretty darn good quality (even for a snapshot of an avatar). What I saw was a very goo level of detail and quality and suspect the textures used were 512 by 512..........that's entirely a guess since I have no way of know the resolution of the textures she used. I really doubt those textures were 1024 at any dimension. That meass they were smaller than what we are going to use (possibly significantly smaller). I thought it could settle our curiosity even if our plan so far is to use different sized textures. Peggy Paperdoll wrote: The lagging down after a few minutes indicates your graphics abilities on your computer are working harder than what they are capable to working for sustained, continuous rendering (you are probably running out of video memory). Each individual's computer and it's associated hardware will be different. The system (not the viewer, the computer system itself) has a lot to do with it too. We cannot do anything about any of that except make it as easy as we possibly can for the average user and maintain a reasonable level of quality. I'm just trying to find out that that "reasonable level or quality" is. I've met a lot of resistance on that (plus a couple of other things)..........that has caused a little bit of friction so I'm lowering my rhetoric a little. True. I'm aware that the graphics capabilities of my computer were - and frequently are - more than maxed out. Which is largly why I was surprised things went as well as they did at first. I thought the ftp drop would have come sooner than it did. There is a balance we have to find. I think we will, and I beieve it is going to be with input from all of us. Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I want a defined project, the goals, who we plan to get to those goals plus the logistics (recieving the images, obtaining the images for edit after we've recieved them, returning the images after editing, some way to tie to the images to the residents who have submitted............a whole long list) Some of what I want cannot be gotten until we have a defined "mission" and a "mission goal". We are not there yet..........I'm not sure are even close. So my ruffling of feathers at this stage is really unnecessary so I'm going to stop injection my concerns until we get something done about priorties and ojbectives. Agreed. I want this too. As far as I can tell, others want the same. Part of the agenda for the meeting(s) on sunday is to define some of these things, no? Probably won't have everything sorted, but perhaps some of the more basic things? Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Sorry if you or anyone else cannot understand where I'm coming from and the reasons I put out my concerns. As far as anything that has broadly (broadly because I don't know exactly what we want to do and how we want to get there) mentioned there's nothing that I cannot do for the portion of the project that I've volunteered for. I wanted to try to arrive at the things that need to be arrived at before we can go forward but that has caused friction so I'll let someone else take up my slack. I do understand where you're coming from. I also agree with a lot of what you say. I don't know, but perhaps arriving where we need to be just requires a bit more time. Then we can move forward. Good night everybody! - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 "Your concerns are for the base SL user, correct? I question what the base SL user is. I do not believe it is someone on an antiquated system, running no graphics. I consider that a fringe extreme." ------------------ Then you consider a brand new computer that has an i5 CPU with the HD 2000 video adapter a system that is fully capable of delivering the proformance that my I5 system with a GTX 550 Ti is capable of doing? Or forget the HD 2000 and say they have an nVidia GT 510 discrete card.......is that going to deliver the same proformance as my system? No, Charollote niether of the examples I mentioned would........not even close. And that's not even considering my connection or how I have my system configured or how I have my graphics set for both my nVidia card and my SL preferences. How many users have their cache set up as I have mine (or yours, even)? How many users insist on connecting wirelessly? Or how many people insist on having yaHoo chat running while in SL? Voice users...do they know what the additional bandwidth requirement is for that "simple" feature? How many users browse sites and download music or videos from You tube while in SL? Many people have brand new computers with sales oriented "high specs"........they don't know better so they cannot be blamed. But, believe me, they are numerous and that is a very big reason for the low retention rate for SL. And, honey, an "antiquated" system could be defined as one that is two years old (even less). It's all about dealing with a basically ignorant audience. That is not meant to be derogatory in any way. It's just a fact of life that most users who are residents of SL are just like most users of the Internet in general. They don't know what is happening when they do anything on their computer........and, in most cases, that is just fine since they don't need to know. We have to compensate for the facts of life with an average user of SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Perhaps we should do a little survey? - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Okay guys. I threw together a quick little website located @ http://avatarphotoproject.com I will have emails set up soon for you guys... Like I said before in the group notice the other day. Anyone who wishes not to have their SL username for their email. Let me know please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Great, Dil! Looks good so far. - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncommonTruth Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: ------------------ Then you consider a brand new computer that has an i5 CPU with the HD 2000 video adapter a system that is fully capable of delivering the proformance that my I5 system with a GTX 550 Ti is capable of doing? Or forget the HD 2000 and say they have an nVidia GT 510 discrete card.......is that going to deliver the same proformance as my system? How many users browse sites and download music or videos from You tube while in SL? Many people have brand new computers with sales oriented "high specs"........they don't know better so they cannot be blamed. But, believe me, they are numerous and that is a very big reason for the low retention rate for SL. And, honey, an "antiquated" system could be defined as one that is two years old (even less). It's all about dealing with a basically ignorant audience. That is not meant to be derogatory in any way. It's just a fact of life that most users who are residents of SL are just like most users of the Internet in general. They don't know what is happening when they do anything on their computer........and, in most cases, that is just fine since they don't need to know. We have to compensate for the facts of life with an average user of SL. You're describing me! My old computer barely ran SL, I'm still not sure how I was able to log in at all lol. I'm a computer illiterate. I don't run other programs because I don't care for crashing.. but I do use wireless, and know nothing about the whys or hows. Thankfully I've made friends here who told me exactly what to shop for when buying a new computer, because sales people never failed to show me what I was told to be careful of and not settle for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncommonTruth Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 That looks great Dilbert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Ok, Peggy. I get your point. Sorry I sounded like a meanie. I just couldn't believe that persons who are interested in a 3D application like this would try to do so on a system that could not handle it. However, I understand now that there are persons that do and we need to take their systems into consideration. I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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