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Kama Mhia

Why do some women choose the role of GOR in the slave-women? An interview with a soldier.

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"Andy:  The women that I know, talked about the fact that sex here is much more interesting and more sensual than in the normal SL.  It's not just balls with animations, this immersion in a different world.

And I would add - sensual virtual sex is an art... Only very good players are able to do this in a high emotional level.

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INTERESTING?

An interview with a soldier with the GOR HERE 

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slave - female tells why she chose this role here

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:smileyhappy:Thank you for the translation of the Tikis Resident!!!  :smileyhappy:


 


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has any1 actually read those john norman books ?? i read 3 or 4 older 1s that were my dads .. he left a bunchuv fantasy / scifi paperbacks in a cardboard box & i read em as a kid .. some were awesome but normans 'gor' books were WAY stupid .. poorly written .. guys riding around on giant hawks shooting @ 1an other w/ crossbows & mistreating women .. theyre complete misogynist garbage .. so its no wonder theyre popular LoL   they really do sukk tho ..

Jeanne

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I find (I have an alt in Gor who is a slave girl there) that there are several groups of players.

1) serious roleplayers. For them the sex is an element, not the core, and they seriously study the books. Many prefer the earlier, less sexually explicit, books over the later ones
2) sexual predators, who're just in it for the easy sex with willing girls who have no real say in the matter. They often take a few bits and pieces from the later books and claim to be playing "by the book".
3) pvp/fight fanatics, who're there for the raiding and capture. They probably fall somewhere in between.

Of course many aren't strictly one or the other.

For women, it's somewhat similar, though the third category will be very small.

Women may be so deeply submissive they choose the total subservience to men. Or they at least choose to play the role.
Many of them are strong personalities btw, not weak sluts at all, and highly educated. People who rl have jobs with responsibilities they would rather not have, seeking release in having their lifes regulated in every detail.

Jeanne, the books aren't any worse than 99% of anything else that is written. Norman never claimed literature, and his work is superior to the average pulp fiction. At least there's thought gone into the lore and scene. If you don't like a medieval fantasy setting, go read something else but don't belittle works set in such an environment for no other reason than being set there.

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For some, it's the exact same reason some are into BDSM.  If you surrender ALL responsibility to your partner, you cannot do anything wrong.  Is $act immoral?  Not your problem -- you have no control over whether or not you have to do it anymore.  By becoming a slave, nothing you do, good or bad, is your responsibility anymore; it all becomes your master's problem now. 

 

Of course, doing things that makes people yell at master means master will then have to discipline you, perhaps in ways you do not like...

 

It's a fun way of playing Make Believe, no different than any of the other things women do for laughs in SL.  It's not real, so don't pretend that it is.  Your avatar is only a slave so long as you permit it, and it's a snap to simply take off the collar and say you're gonna do something else now.  It's for fun. 

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jwenting wrote:

Jeanne, the books aren't any worse than 99% of anything else that is written. Norman never claimed literature, and his work is superior to the average pulp fiction. At least there's thought gone into the lore and scene. If you don't like a medieval fantasy setting, go read something else but don't belittle works set in such an environment for no other reason than being set there.

You may be right that normans stuff isnt any worse than 99% of the stuff thats published jwenting .. his writing is very amateurish & theres nothing original about it .. ltl of it is 'medieval' tho .. the main place is copied after ancient rome .. then there is viking & pirate & middle eastern settings .. all taken from a superficial grasp of history .. 1 bunchuv his aliens are big insects & the other bunch are half bear & half gorilla that eat ppl .. whoopie !! the giant hawks are biomechanically unrealistic & having a planet opposite Earth that no1 on Earth knowsa bout is just stupid .. but all this isnt the issue .....

the issue is the misogyny .. its sick .. women are kidnapped & treated like sh*t & end up liking it ?!?! a woman can be forced to have sex for the price of a beer & if she doesnt please the strutting john he buys her for a pittance & watches as giant weasels eat her alive ... any self-respecting woman would wait until these impotent over-compensating males were asleep then slit their throats or poke their eyeballs out .. norman writes sick sadistic misogynist garbage & thats the truth of it

in SL i dont care how sick the RP is .. no1 is harmed by it ... but in RL how many women have been mistreated cuz her bf or husband read normans smut ?? i dunno but id guess plenty have .. the fact that he cant write means he only appeals to illiterates .. sounds to me from what you say that he got worse as time went on .. he prolly got rich from publishing garbage that appeals to the worst in male human nature @ the expense of women .. normans 'gor' books are sick & he is a POS .. imo

Jeanne

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My 2 cents:

1. What adults choose to do consensually is their own business. Having been in involved briefly in the RL BDSM scene, I understand that personal psychology & turn-ons can be very complex, interesting, & not at all as simplistic as people outside of the scene often assume they are.

2. That said, I also have my own biases about male Doms in the BDSM scene based on my own observations & discussions about them.  Imo, many men who are attracted to the idea of being dominant, have relatively weak egos & a poor understanding of how to be a good Dom toward a submissive partner. This is especially true of "Dominants" who have only played online, rather than in the real world. In real life BDSM there is supposed to be a written or unwritten contract between Dom & sub that outlines the rights & responsibilities of each person. In real life, there is also a play of power-exchange that can be exciting & rewarding for each party. I don't think many of the people who choose to play with Dominant-submissive fantasies in SL really understand or appreciate the value of RL BDSM rules, contracts & power-exchange.

3. I read the first Gor book & found it to be poorly written, misogynistic & stupid, but also entertaining as fantasy-fiction. I find it fascinating to imagine how such a mediocre set of fantasy books can spark the imagination & creativity of so many people. Wasn't the writer a history professor?  If so, then how could he seem to hold such a simplistic & erroneous understanding of human nature & world history? I'm flabbergasted that there are actually people (predominantly men) who believe it's just "natural" for women to want to be dominated by men the way they are in the Gor books. They don't seem to understand that the same courage & toughness required by the male characters to survive is also natural in women. As someone else said above, it wouldn't take much for women slaves to poison or slit the throats of their male masters. Ardent fans of The Gor books also seem to fail to appreciate the nature of humanity to strive for civilizing forces within society. It just doesn't make sense for men & women to allow their daughters to be enslaved, beaten & raped, even if their mothers were slaves their whole life. In fact, it is natural for society to create a degree of stability & peace, rather than constant warfare between chieftains, classes & the sexes.

4. The Gorean subculture of SL has created wonderful-looking sims & items that far surpasses what many other groups have tried to do. Assuming a similar level of fandom for Star-Trek, Star-Wars or fantasy role-playing games, other genres of role-play haven't created the same level of excellent creations. When someone wants nice historical buildings, furniture, clothing or animated chores, the Gorean market often provides the best.

5. Finally the main question, why do Women role-play as Gorean slaves? Honestly, I can't answer that question because I'm not one of them. I can speculate that they enjoy letting a man be in control, & thus not having to take responsibility for their own choices or sexual desires. I know that I enjoy playing submissive at times, but I'm also very strong-willed & manipulative of people who try to dominate me or take advantage of me. ( I am not a sub most Doms would want to piss off, because I'm not really submissive at all.) To really get a meaningful answer to that question, however, someone would have to poll the women who enjoy Gorean role-play.

 

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You make excellent points, and have outlined some of the things I've often wondered about Gorean subculture in SL. There are aspects of it I find fascinating but also horrifying at the same time. I do wonder what drives women to roleplay in that world and let themselves be subjected to what I deem as mistreatment. Yes, it IS roleplay, but I still can't help but feel it's degrading. The culture of Gor is disturbing to me, because the mark of a truly civilized society is reflected in their regard for women. We hear so many horror stories of women in Afghanistan and other third-world countries being beaten, raped, tortured, maimed, and murdered under the subjugation of men. I don't think that's anything to be glorified or celebrated as sexually liberating.

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I just want to say something about 4.) Don't think other roleplay communities are not as creativ, big or active as fans of gore. Its just not as popular in SL. There are many games, worlds, mmos around who are in some parts far easier for realizing certain roleplay.

For example Star Wars. Here in SL all stuff would need to be build first. You need people who can do that and people who have the land for it. Pretty much stuff to do....and at this point you don't even know if there are enough people who want to form that community.

On the other hand there is a new Star Wars mmo around, which comes with everything someone needs. It als has already servers made for roleplayers to meet each other.

 

So I think thats a part of the answer why Gore seems to be more activ than other roleplays in SL. Also new roleplayers like to become part of communities which are already big and popular.

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JeanneAnne wrote:

has any1 actually read those john norman books ?? i read 3 or 4 older 1s that were my dads .. he left a bunchuv fantasy / scifi paperbacks in a cardboard box & i read em as a kid .. some were awesome but normans 'gor' books were WAY stupid .. poorly written .. guys riding around on giant hawks shooting @ 1an other w/ crossbows & mistreating women .. theyre complete misogynist garbage .. so its no wonder theyre popular LoL   they really do sukk tho ..

Jeanne

One should note, they are popular with women. Go to a Gorean sim as a visitor.. you will see that women outnumber the men 4 to 1 or better.

And as to the books themselves.. some were better than others, the first 5 were very good. IMO. i usually skipped over the "training" parts as they became very repetitive, but on the whole the plot of the series is very interesting.

But that interview was terrible. firstly one of the women was a n elf. Secondly it was poorly written. interviewing one person and then using that as a basis about an entire RP?!?! seriously?

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

has any1 actually read those john norman books ?? i read 3 or 4 older 1s that were my dads .. he left a bunchuv fantasy / scifi paperbacks in a cardboard box & i read em as a kid .. some were awesome but normans 'gor' books were WAY stupid .. poorly written .. guys riding around on giant hawks shooting @ 1an other w/ crossbows & mistreating women .. theyre complete misogynist garbage .. so its no wonder theyre popular LoL   they really do sukk tho ..

Jeanne

One should note, they are popular with women. Go to a Gorean sim as a visitor.. you will see that women outnumber the men 4 to 1 or better.

And as to the books themselves.. some were better than others, the first 5 were very good. IMO. i usually skipped over the "training" parts as they became very repetitive, but on the whole the plot of the series is very interesting.

But that interview was terrible. firstly one of the women was a n elf. Secondly it was poorly written. interviewing one person and then using that as a basis about an entire RP?!?! seriously?

 

i read the first 3 or 4 & if memory serves me .. they were pretty bad .. so if they only got worse the last 20 or 30 mustuv been REALLY bad !! Norman is a hack .. an opportunist .. he writes the most godawful misogynist porn .. purposefully designed to appeal to sadomasochists .. & rakes in the bucks from doing it .. personally .. id have no qualms about feeding the creepy hack to the sleens

i did visit a gorean sim once .. by accident .. when i fell outuv a skybox & landed on it .. id been shopping for medieval stuff in a mall when i suddenly just fell thru the bottom .. fell hundreds of meters & landed in this barren, snowy, mountainous sim w/ huts & a viking ship in the fjord .. there were 2 or 3 women there dressed in old fashion garb but no men .. the women told me i wasnt supposed to be there cuz i wasnt wearing some kinduv a 'meter' .. i told them that i didnt go there on purpose & i asked about the 'meter' .. they told me that id better get one if i ever wanted to come back .. & that they didnt mind me being there but if 1uv the guys showed up while i was there id be captured & collared .. i didnt stay long & no guys showed up while i was there .. thats the only time iv been to a gorean sim in sl

i do have this kajira outfit tho .. its real skimpy .. it does cover all my bits but when im dancing my bouncy physics takes over & i guess now & then i flash a **bleep** .. which almost got me kicked outuv a M rated blues club once :))

Jeanne

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JeanneAnne wrote:

has any1 actually read those john norman books ?? i read 3 or 4 older 1s that were my dads .. he left a bunchuv fantasy / scifi paperbacks in a cardboard box & i read em as a kid .. some were awesome but normans 'gor' books were WAY stupid .. poorly written .. guys riding around on giant hawks shooting @ 1an other w/ crossbows & mistreating women .. theyre complete misogynist garbage .. so its no wonder theyre popular LoL   they really do sukk tho ..

Jeanne

Misoygynist indeed!!!!   Half of the "women" are actually men with major women hating issues and the few women that do get involved and actually know what it is about must be in need of some serious therapy and have low self esteem issues that allow them to be victimized in such a fashion.  I don't know why LL allows such things to be honest.....rape and the abuse of women is not a game, it's not a joke and it should never be considered as "entertainment" doing some is a terrible injustice to women everywhere.

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Allazondra Torii wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

has any1 actually read those john norman books ?? i read 3 or 4 older 1s that were my dads .. he left a bunchuv fantasy / scifi paperbacks in a cardboard box & i read em as a kid .. some were awesome but normans 'gor' books were WAY stupid .. poorly written .. guys riding around on giant hawks shooting @ 1an other w/ crossbows & mistreating women .. theyre complete misogynist garbage .. so its no wonder theyre popular LoL   they really do sukk tho ..

Jeanne

Misoygynist indeed!!!!   Half of the "women" are actually men with major women hating issues and the few women that do get involved and actually know what it is about must be in need of some serious therapy and have low self esteem issues that allow them to be victimized in such a fashion.  I don't know why LL allows such things to be honest.....rape and the abuse of women is not a game, it's not a joke and it should never be considered as "entertainment" doing some is a terrible injustice to women everywhere.

i agree with you Allazondra .. thing is tho .. that the gorean roleplay is hardly the worst stuff that goes on in SL .. theres much creepier stuff than this .. SL is a haven for perverts & sickos of all sorts .. the bdsm scene is huge & pervasive in SL .. & pedophiles lurk in SL too .. theres plenty of sick stuff in SL .. & not just on the A rated sims

on the other hand tho .. i h8 to judge what others are in2 when no1 can actually physically harm any1 else over the internet .. the question is tho .. how much psychological harm is caused & how much of the virtual violence carries over in2 RL .. judging from all the threads about broken heartedness in these fora id say that we have evidence for a great amount of psychological harm accruing from playing SL .. @ least for susceptible personality types .. i have no way of knowing but i bet that certain guys are mean to their female family members after getting all worked up mistreating 'slave girls' on gorean or other bdsm sims in SL .. no way of knowing how common this is tho

Jeanne

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Yes, it's so wrong that other people have different fantasies than yours. Tell me, would you censor "50 Shades of Gray" as well? What are you even doing on Second Life?

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JeanneAnne wrote:


Allazondra Torii wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

has any1 actually read those john norman books ?? i read 3 or 4 older 1s that were my dads .. he left a bunchuv fantasy / scifi paperbacks in a cardboard box & i read em as a kid .. some were awesome but normans 'gor' books were WAY stupid .. poorly written .. guys riding around on giant hawks shooting @ 1an other w/ crossbows & mistreating women .. theyre complete misogynist garbage .. so its no wonder theyre popular LoL   they really do sukk tho ..

Jeanne

Misoygynist indeed!!!!   Half of the "women" are actually men with major women hating issues and the few women that do get involved and actually know what it is about must be in need of some serious therapy and have low self esteem issues that allow them to be victimized in such a fashion.  I don't know why LL allows such things to be honest.....rape and the abuse of women is not a game, it's not a joke and it should never be considered as "entertainment" doing some is a terrible injustice to women everywhere.

i agree with you Allazondra .. thing is tho .. that the gorean roleplay is hardly the worst stuff that goes on in SL .. theres much creepier stuff than this .. SL is a haven for perverts & sickos of all sorts .. the bdsm scene is huge & pervasive in SL .. & pedophiles lurk in SL too .. theres plenty of sick stuff in SL .. & not just on the A rated sims

on the other hand tho .. i h8 to judge what others are in2 when no1 can actually physically harm any1 else over the internet .. the question is tho .. how much psychological harm is caused & how much of the virtual violence carries over in2 RL .. judging from all the threads about broken heartedness in these fora id say that we have evidence for a great amount of psychological harm accruing from playing SL .. @ least for susceptible personality types .. i have no way of knowing but i bet that certain guys are mean to their female family members after getting all worked up mistreating 'slave girls' on gorean or other bdsm sims in SL .. no way of knowing how common this is tho

Jeanne

You make some really good points.  There have been some studies done in Europe that have shown that media that protrays women as objects actually rewires the male brain so that it begins to respond to women, even in real life situations, as objects and not people.  Other studies have also shown how being exposed to violence, etc. through media has carried over into real life so you would think that SL would have these same effects if not even more so because of the fact that it requires you to actually play an active, instead of a passive, role and involves you directly instead of just watching the actions of others so I would think the psychological harm would be even greater.  Of course we already know what harm comes from trvializing vioelene against women.

Unfortunately you are right, there are a lot of disturbing things on SL....but there are also a lot of wonderfully positive and creative things that far out weigh the other stuff...they're just not as "loud" so people tend to focus on the rubbish instead of the gems.

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Allazondra Torii wrote:


....but there are also a lot of wonderfully positive and creative things that far out weigh the other stuff...they're just not as "loud" so people tend to focus on the rubbish instead of the gems.


Yep! i mostly like SL for the music .. there are several really REALLY good SL DJs who stream 24/7 thru shoutcast .. totally free & no commercials !! & you can listen via winamp & dont even need to be inworld .. better DJs than iv ever heard even on npr .. even when their playlists are set on random .. & when theyre there actually selecting the tunes its WONDERFUL ..

Jeanne

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Persephone Emerald wrote:

 

5. Finally the main question, why do Women role-play as Gorean slaves? Honestly, I can't answer that question because I'm not one of them. I can speculate that they enjoy letting a man be in control, & thus not having to take responsibility for their own choices or sexual desires. I know that I enjoy playing submissive at times, but I'm also very strong-willed & manipulative of people who try to dominate me or take advantage of me. ( I am not a sub most Doms would want to piss off, because I'm not really submissive at all.) To really get a meaningful answer to that question, however, someone would have to poll the women who enjoy Gorean role-play.

 

I agree the words of a girl- slave who gave us an interviewSlave for Pleasure (interview with a slave)

 

The main idea of ​​a slave: 1. Desire to be a slave to this inner need, 2. The desire to limit freedom during sex

 

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Well... I lerned all about gor I ever wanted to from one passage from the books put on the forums to teach us all about it. There was a rather strange description of a man talking to a houseplant that talks back.

One way of looking at it seeing as there was little description is of a man and a woman in a nice building with a warm fire and the woman on her knees just a little white silk and a few chains on with the guy pooring water over her and her teasingly giveing in eventualy. then cue scene from porn movie.

The othe way to look at it is a poor brused woman at the end of her tether giveing in to some fat old guy teling her she better act like a plant or he will get angry at which point she just gives in because she has lost all hope and then it ends with a poor shivering woman trying to get warm in a cold hut thats not even lit with a fire and a few vits of meterial and a few chains make thngs much worse instead of better.

Also the idea that a slave isnt responsable for thair actions is just sily. They are more responsable. You do your best to wear the color master wants that day and fail because most of your silks are in the wash the punishment is on your head. You spill a drink over masters friend well master gets yelled at for you great but you get the punishment later and just being a slave you can be replaced so how do you know master will even keep you alive? Thinking for yourself often comes with a major bonus if you screw up or things dont go to plan you only have one person to blame but you only have one person to tell you off and thats yourself.

So everything in moderation and if it gets abuseive run like hell because abuse dosent stop and they dont get nicer they just kill you.

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Good god, this whole "discussion" is really funny to read. People argueing about the quality of the gor universe, people playing Freud and trying to get to an answer why people chose to take part in a gor roleplay and finally (the most funniest thing in here) two feminists who wind each other up, unable to see the difference between a roleplay and real life.

As a roleplayer thats really what makes me mad sometimes. People who call roleplayers sick or strange, while they would never call an actor the same things. (And I'm not even part of any gor or bdsm roleplay!). Its fun. Not more. Those people don't have the opinion that it is ok to do the things they act out in their roleplay in the real world. (When I think about all those things my charakters have done....puhh... I would never join the military, pray to somekind of holy force or work as a bounty hunter :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:). 

A good roleplayer plays a charakter and not himself. He or she can draw the line between fiction and reality (like everyone with a healty brain). Someone who enjoys watching horror movies isn't a serial killer at the same time, think about it.

Oh, and as someone who as psychology lessons at university due to my studies I can clearly say that there is not one all time true answer about violence in media and violent acts in real life. There are many theories and many different facts. Its a huge and complex topic which can't be answered that simple.

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This is such a boring and condescending argument that's been going on ever since people began to use the internet for more than frapping.  Honestly, guys, give Gorean roleplayers more credit than this!  Yeah, Norman wasn't the best writer, but he did create a rich and vibrant world that allows roleplayers in Gor much creativity and satisfaction in their expression.  I played a slavegirl, a Free Woman, and a male guard in Gor, and have read about 22 of the books (crikey, I need a medal for that, alone!) and frankly, it's been some of the best rp I've had yet in my time in SL. 

There's idiots and predators in Gor, just as there are in most roleplaying avenues on the interwebs, but there are also very ordinary, normal people (just like you and me) who are very capable and good people in RL with responsible jobs, families, and positive relationships with others.  Would you be surprised to know that the majority of women I met in Gor were very talented, ultra-capable and skilled people with very strong personalities; not cringing, browbeaten downtrodden females at all?  They often built the sims I rp'd in, and had strong leadership roles in the sim itself...the women often gently led, prodded and helped the men, and new roleplayers to flesh out their roles to enable a richer experience for the others.  With the exception of one person (who was a total egg who got carried away in his "role") the men I rp'd with were articulate, humorous, and fun roleplayers who really took my rp experience to the next level, especially when I played "one of the guys" (which has been the best rp experience I've had in SL!).

Frankly, if people allow themselves to be manipulated, and are gullible enough to allow internet predators an entry into their lives - I'm not saying they deserve it, but it's going to happen to them whether they rp Gor, Victorian England, or Na'avi, ok?  Don't be blaming and judging Gorean rolepayers by your very low and ignorant standards.  But ah!  I suspect my perspective will be falling on deaf ears, because there are some very judgemental and worse, un-informed people out there who have already made their minds up - and we all know how hard that is to change!

And blah, blah blah- yes, the Bdsm community is huge in SL.  It's there to stay, get over it lol!  Just avoid if you don't like it.  But do you know why it's so popular?  It's because many people are interested and intrigued by it - and SL is the perfect place to explore one's interests and desires.  As long as it's not illegal RL, then I fully support opportunities which allow people to explore and learn!  As for me...I spent nearly 15 years exploring my interest in bdsm in various chat rooms, until I found SL and rp'd for 4 years or so, which helped to fuel the courage I had to get involved real life in my own bdsm community - to the extent that I ended up organising RL fetish and kink events (it's what I do now).  I would never have ventured into this new world, or made the wonderful friends I have, nor experienced what I needed to in my real life - if I hadn't explored in SL first.

 

Peace all,

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we choose to play that role:

1. because we like it sl or rl

2. because we are not equal with men. look where equality brought the world.

3. gor has clear cut social structures and roles, unlike our f......ked up society.

4. because even though we wear a collar, we are the most free and we are able to transcend  our personalities and expand our  limits in order to serve. we are not restrained by inhibitions and "musts"

5. a slave can never be selfish and egoist like most people in our world

6. we become creative by studying those books of Norman, and many many other readings.

need more reasons to choose that role?  :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:

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many women join SL Gor because they are submissive and are looking for that elusive strong man. What they often meet up with is the man who does not want to be with his earth wife and likes the idea of a woman he can subdue.  Some women choose to be Free Women and often their lives are made nothing by the constantly furring man who is a weakling on earth and wears pretend balls on line. Slaves spend their lives collar hopping because the man they expect never appears.People rarely get what they are looking for. And there is so much more to Gor than slaves or furring.

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