Enhancements Gone Berserk

[Koltari]

That is really bad form to inform just a few. I will still file a ticket. i usually monitor the enhancements quite closely and cant recall not being charged. I could be wrong but I would require a specified list of the ones that were delayed.

[Argus Collingwood]

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Darien Caldwell wrote:

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Luna Bliss wrote:

Dakota announced this in the Commerce group today.

It would be nice if these kinds of changes were announced in advance so we wouldn't all scramble around and worry.

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So what is this group and why as a SLM merchant am I not in it?

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Second Life Commerce Merchants General

 

A place for merchants in second life and on XStreet SL to talk business. No spam is allowed. It's ok to disagree, but please do it civilly to encourage others to join in the conversation.

 

Founder

pink.linden

Members

1347

Enrollment

Open Enrollment

View group info in Viewer sidebar

 

[Zanara Zenovka]

Darien -  all existing merchants were invited when it was created back in the Xstreet/ ?Pink Linden days, but nothing formal has been done with it since then. It was closed invite originally but I think it's open now - just check the link from my profile or others here - "Second Life Commerce Merchants" is the exact name, iirc

[Zanara Zenovka]

lol and Argus wins by a nanosecond

[Pamela Galli]

Amazing that there are still merchants who do not know about the inworld group, or this one, or both.

[Argus Collingwood]

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Zanara Zenovka wrote:

lol and Argus wins by a nanosecond

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gmta lol

[Darrius Gothly]

(Sorry for my absence folks, couldn't be helped)

I've been frustrated lately because as a programmer/geek type, I could see how the small, relatively minor (till now) problems had exploded due to the overwhelming load placed on the MP when everyone went to move their listings from Magic Boxes to Direct Delivery. It was plainly evident to me that people were exaggerating things .. mostly out of a sense of fear and dread and most defintely due to a lack of understanding. I could see the various problems from a technical viewpoint. I've been on the receiving end of angry customers in panic. (I'll tell you the story sometime about being surrounded by 20 angry customers, all shouting at the tops of their lungs, at 7am .. in a strange town .. after an all-night bender. LOL)

But now I've reached the end of my patience. When the problem with the Listing Enhancements started, a few folks posting on these forums mentioned that they weren't being charged. One theorized that it was LL's way of atoning for the major problems being forced down everyone's throats ... and since it seemed like a reasonable and good customer service thing to do, it kinda got dropped there. Now I find out it was just more of the same "Failure to Communicate" issue that has been the hallmark of every amazing foul-up ever dropped ... nuclear bomb-like ... on Linden Lab's paying customers.

That 7am "experience" I mentioned earlier wasn't my fault, it was the direct fault of the company, failing to communicate with their customers. I'd been sent to that location (can we say "Sacrificial Lamb"?) in their last-ditch attempts to quell the growing riot that they could not figure out how to fix. I fixed it by:

COMMUNICATING!!!

Sending Dakota into the in-world group (after the fact btw) to sort of drop a bug in a few ears is not the way it's done. Announcing BEFORE-HAND that you plan on emptying the L$ Accounts of those affected is how you do it. You put it on the Merchant Dashboard. You send an email to everyone about to be charged. You give them a few days ADVANCE NOTICE in every manner possible. And you make sure you APOLOGIZE for having to take it all at once, but it just has to be done that way.

I don't care a flying FIG if you're awfully doggone busy, or that you don't see it as a big thing .. or any other half-lame EXCUSE that you might come up with. This method of attacking your customers is just plain unacceptable. (And yes, billing someone for a lot of MONEY out of the blue and unannounced is an attack.) I also don't care if it's within the 30 days or whatever other legal shield you might be standing behind.

Brooke .. get serious. Those so-called TOKENS you just took from people's accounts came at the expense of real live US Currency. Whether they started out as Euros or Yen or just plain-old hard work ... they cost MONEY! How would you feel to wake up and find that suddenly your Credit Card had been dinged for $100? Hey, it's just a TOKEN of money, right? It's just a plastic card and has no real value. 30 seconds and a magnet will fix any fantasy you have about it being REAL money. So why should the Credit Card company care that you couldn't afford that $100, or that you could afford it but just weren't expecting it?

Stop treating us like we're just "lame gamers with emo issues" ... because we're NOT! We are responsible, dependable, honest human beings with a genuine (and well deserved) concern that our money is being treated like it doesn't matter .. by the very people entrusted to protect and control it!!

I don't know how much your "Raid" netted you, but at roughly $4 per enhancement average, I'm willing to bet you gained a full month's paycheck at least. Yeah, okay, you spread out the pain, only dinged each CUSTOMER a modest amount (in real dollars that is), but I've seen folks lose it over being charged less in error.

You need to come in here and apologize to the people you've hurt. You need to promise .. real honest PROMISE that you won't be treating folks like problems that need to be eliminated. And you need to get your head around the fact that this is a business, just like any other business. It's real serious stuff Brooke, not a bunch of data that needs to be shuffled from here to there. Like your credit card account is important to you, the daily ins and outs of our Linden Dollar accounts is real and personal and, at times like this, painful. You need to stop ignoring that fact, and make this truth the foundation of your every act.

(whew .. rant over .. for now)

[Marcus Hancroft]

Good mornin, Darrius!

I completely agree with everything you've just said.  I've been watching this mess unfold and I've been stunned by the lack of any communication from Linden Lab about any of this.  And now...people's accounts getting drained by them because of "unbilled charges" for listing enhancements.  It's completely ridiculous and I can do nothing but sit here and shake my head as all these things happen.

Luckily, I've been unaffected by all the problems aside from a few days of no sales on and after the direct delivery rollout day.  Because of past discussions about how terrible listing "enhancements" really are, I haven't had any of those in a long long time either and so my meager linden dollar balance has not been affected by this. 

But I feel horrible for those who HAVE lost money with this debacle.  I wish there were some advice I could give people that would instantly fix everything and this whole mess would be over. 

I have asked the commerce team (others have BEGGED the commerce team) in multiple threads to communicate with us.  Give us updates.  Something.  And hardly a peep from anybody in San Francisco.  Where's Rodvick in all this?  Does he even know what's been happening to his marketplace website?  I'm starting to wonder.

[Zanara Zenovka]

Agree entirely and thanks for taking the time to write all that DG. I'm lost for words, or at least words that can be uttered in polite company (or even around you lot ;p).

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Amen to that, really not getting why the company itself hasn't stepped up here to start getting control of this entire situation, if they care at all about their customers.

Also helps if you're going to whisper to a small group of people instead of public announcements when you're catching up with billing that people can actually verify those amounts and specific charges.

Now I'm sure if you'd pre-announced publically, out of frustration of the poor performance lately, some people may have emptied their balance in advance (which was at least a choice they can make, on the 5% commission, they don't have that luxury, or of assured refunds on marketplace mistakes).

It's kind of a basic concept for everyone out here in the world. You get billed, you get a list of charges. The funny thing about billing is that it generally includes itemization, back charges, credits, adjustments and so on.

In fact, it's a requirement.

[Darrius Gothly]

I haven't been hit by the listing screwups, nor did I get charged for Listing Enhancements. (I turned all of mine off and while I have from time to time tried one, I've found them to be basically a waste of money. IMO)

But I am like you Marcus, I can understand and sympathize with those that have been hit. It doesn't take a saint to see the person next to you being hurt and want to help them ... it just takes a human being.

@Dart - You are exactly right on about it being a requirement. I get pages and pages of charge details from everyone else I deal with. In fact, the advent of computers to their accounting departments increased the amount of detail they provide rather than decreased it. Why? Because you program the dang thing once and then it does that forever! The way the Dev Team skimps on detail, you'd swear they were hand-writing every report themselves.

Unless they've been specifically instructed to hide details and keep information to a minimum there is no defensible reason why they do not include more in each report.

And if they HAVE been ordered not to ... WHY ON EARTH!!???!?

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Darien Caldwell wrote:

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Luna Bliss wrote:

Dakota announced this in the Commerce group today.

It would be nice if these kinds of changes were announced in advance so we wouldn't all scramble around and worry.

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So what is this group and why as a SLM merchant am I not in it?

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It is the inworld SecondLife Commerce Group - just like any other SL inworld group but for merchants.  It often pops up throughout the day as online merchants chat, ask questions, rant, etc. 

It is EXTREMELY RARE for a Linden to ever participate on this inworld group chat.  ( Heck, it is extremely rare for the LL Commerce Team to communicate AT ALL )  but yesterday Dakota thought it was a smart idea to provide valuable information on how LL was messing things up by fixing things up regarding enhancements issues, by talking about it to those few merchants that were online and watching the group chat - as opposed to providing this valuable information and related Q&A on the merchant forums and the MP Merchant Dashboard.

The problem with this logic Dakota used (which almost all of us Merchants and residents of SL would figure out in a heartbeat) is that unless you are both a member of this inworld group AND online at the moment she posted thes online group IMs, no one would see it.  I am a group member and I missed it.  I guess Dakota hope her words of wisdom were such gospel that anyone that did witness it would post it to the Merchant community on her behalf.

You see.... LL Commerce Group love the communication strategy of - "Whisper in a few merchant's ears and let them spread the news".

The other problem with this announcement of LL's method of fixing the enhancement fiasco is that they do what they always love to do...... EXECUTE THE FIX FIRST - TELL AFTER (unless no one squawks about it and then we thankfully dont have to say anything).

LL Commerce Team has a massive fear of communicating with the Merchant Community.  Its a phobia that I think they should seek medical help for.

Anyway.... if you are not a member of this inworld group - you better be.  Talk to Sonya to be invited - she is the group's moderator.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

True, I hate to venture too far into conjecture territory, but this thing has all the signs of some independent arrangement with LL.

They wouldn't touch the MB scripts at "all". You would think way back before DD they would have said "let's build a direct pipe (our own version of llGiveInventory) rather than rebuild an entire delivery system.

Rather than sanely re-work XStreet they decided to do a from-scratch project (always something to be avoided where possible).

It reeks of some independent deal for the acquisition, that they couldn't legally modify MB code or further modify the old XStreet code.

The way this team operates doesn't seem to have any sort of accountability to LL. Most management would be looking for new hires about now.

I've often thought because of the way things appear that the commerce team gets a commission or their pay from how the marketplace performs, which would explain how and why they optimize it for themselves rather than a product that meets bare minimum ecommerce requirements for their customers (which aren't many or unreasonable).

It seems far too autonomous to be part of a responsible company. Rod won't even touch the issue, so doesn't look like much help for management. They're leaking customers, banning more, losing trust, etc. How much incentive do you need before you jump in and get HR involved?

Aside from not bearing the same legal responsibility as all other business in the U.S.

Funny money (to them) or not, would love to see an independent audit on this puppy.

But who knows, making sense isn't on the feature list.

[Darrius Gothly]

Hmm .. that's a rather intriguing concept Dart .. that the Commerce Dev Team is an independent organization that is "shadowed" under the LL umbrella. It would answer some rather baffling questions, wouldn't it?

Y'know .. if that's the case ..

HEY ROD!! We got some folks here would do a MUCH better job, fix up your reputation, do the work on time and with utmost care ... and we'd do it for the same as you're paying the (outside) team now.

Anyone needing a job programming a Virtual World eCommerce Site ... please send all resumes to .. 

*GRIN*

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Well, not so much shadowed as dot-bomb methodology. Here, take this, run with it and I'll give you X. You're the boss, here's your title.

I'm sure they have commerce team t-shirts.

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Hmm .. that's a rather intriguing concept Dart .. that the Commerce Dev Team is an independent organization that is "shadowed" under the LL umbrella. It would answer some rather baffling questions, wouldn't it?

Y'know .. if that's the case ..

HEY ROD!! We got some folks here would do a MUCH better job, fix up your reputation, do the work on time and with utmost care ... and we'd do it for the same as you're paying the (outside) team now.

Anyone needing a job programming a Virtual World eCommerce Site ... please send all resumes to .. 

*GRIN*

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I hate to be blunt about this but likely LL couldnt afford most of us to join LL.

You would have to think - based on the countless examples of how poorly the LL Commerce Management Team and Developers Team do their business....  i.e.

 

• immature development practices and code/system testing,
• no concept of doing actual business / system requirements,
• no skills in business strategy or product/service development
• know skills or maturity in software / system deployment practices,
• near zero customer relationship management,
• no skills in effective communications with their customers,

LL's employee salary and compensation is likely not very attractive at all.  As such, they will get the talent they have now.  Likely juniors in their fields of expertise or people that were out of work in another field but took the job as it was better than nothing.

LL Sr. Management (i.e. Rodvik) is fully aware of the shallow pool of talent and skills running his departments (especially in the development and commerce departments) but because LL's financial are in a declining path, they do not have the budget to seek out highly skilled and talented resources with maturity in all these fields mentioned above.  So, Rodvik just sticks his head in the sand and pretends he is completely not aware of just how bad his Commerce Team is screwing up the SL Commerce and MP.  He really has no choice.

As such, Rodvik could not even consider making people like you an offer Darrius.... he cant afford you and others that have a deep understanding of the SL business / service as well as mature development & deployment skills.

We are the victims of all we experience with the LL Commerce Team because of LL's inability to attract the talents we all wished LL Commerce and Development had.

This is as good as it gets

[Zanara Zenovka]

Yes I've wondered this ever since the MB scripts from ?3 years ago were never touched, and also the whole new site, when prettifying the old would have been so much better in retrospect. But i'm still willing to give credit to stupid decisions and avoidance of LSL scripting too.

Independent group is an interesting idea - hadn't thought of that. If anything I'd view it as the work of people whose pay is in no way tied to performance...

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Ugg, have to go back and qualify some of that, even though I don't think I was misunderstood. Not saying that the marketplace isn't an LL property or that the employees aren't LL employees or that the marketplace isn't a valid department of LL.

Could be entirely wrong on this one, of course. but I've seen and made plenty of those revenue share offers. Saves money on payroll. Easy to make, not so easy to back out of.

I think it was CouldBe that made a point that when you look at the whole thing as a spread for LL, they can look at these problems as reasonable and small as they stated in the sticky ... only a small amount of users are affected by this issue.

If they're judging commerce teams performance by the amount of money the marketplace earns, there's not much wrong at all.

If they want to judge by customer satisfaction or ecommerce requirements it's a disaster.

[Darien Caldwell]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Amazing that there are still merchants who do not know about the inworld group, or this one, or both.

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I only started back as a merchant about 2 months ago, after being 'retired' for 3 years. I expect there's a lot I'm not aware of.

It's not like LL tells anyone anything.

 

Thanks to all for the information on the group.

[Marcus Hancroft]

Hmmm...

Darrius Linden....

I like the sound of that!  Of course they'd have someone on staff that knew what in hell was going on, how to fix it and would and could avoid the disaster all this has become!

Toy is right though.  They can't afford you.  But I surely wish they could!

[Darrius Gothly]

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Marcus Hancroft wrote:

Hmmm...

Darrius Linden....

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ROFL!! Actually, I already have my Linden name picked out.

IMAKIA Linden.

It stands for:

I ... M ... A ... Know It All

[Kampu Oyen]

You people are paranoid.

[Darrius Gothly]

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Kampu Oyen wrote:

You people are paranoid.

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Who told you that? Did the men in dark glasses contact you? Did you see that black helicopter? OMG!! I have to go now. I think they're tapping my phone line .. and my computer is bugged .. and I KNOW the cat is secretly taping my conversations.

EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME!!

[Marcus Hancroft]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

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Marcus Hancroft wrote:

Hmmm...

Darrius Linden....

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ROFL!! Actually, I already have my Linden name picked out.

IMAKIA Linden.

It stands for:

I

...

M

...

A

...

K

now

I

t

A

ll

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My turn! 

ROFL!!  Hahahahaha!

Imakia

LOL!

Wait.  We're paranoid?  Where'd THAT come from?  I'm not paranoid of anything.  You and I are the LEAST two paranoid people I know, Darrius. 

/me looks left, looks right, hopes nobody is listenin

[Sera Lok]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

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Kampu Oyen wrote:

You people are paranoid.

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Who told you that? Did the men in dark glasses contact you? Did you see that black helicopter? OMG!! I have to go now. I think they're tapping my phone line .. and my computer is bugged .. and I KNOW the cat is secretly taping my conversations.

EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME!!

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lawlll