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Two guys together


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To be perfectly honest, my first reaction to this topic was "So what, and why should I care about that?" There's lot's of bizarre, freak-tastic things to see in SL, and two guys...two girls hanging out just isn't anything out of the ordinary. Why is it my business (or anyone else's) if they're just brothers, friends, or bumpin' pixel jooblies together? Anyway, that's my opinion about that. I simply wouldn't give it much thought if I saw two men sitting, shopping, hanging out, etc.

Now, if I ran into a Taco with a **bleep** (which I did once) now that will probably make me stop and shake my head.

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I can think of a lot of things not considered social norms that get people crapped on. Not to make light of anything said here, and of course all situations are different. But I don't honestly believe someone stating they participate in something, are a certain way, believe a certain thing, or whatever other terminology needs to be used based on the scenario....as feeling as though they are more "special" and needing to show that. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say without making light of what I know(not from personal experience, but from what I've seen and friends/family members have gone though) is a very delicate area, usually met with a great deal of ridicule, and I try my best to be mindful of the thoughts of others at all times.

No one should have to *not* tell people, simply because others will react in a manner less than savory. We shouldn't live our lives and dictate them based off the reactions we *might* get. I think people should be able to openly discuss whatever they want-again barring anything legal that would otherwise prevent them. If people don't like it, they can simply not listen. But no need to tell others they shouldn't declare, or discuss, or behave in a certain manner, simply because it's not a path your life has gone down.

No one is responsible for your reactions, thoughts or feelings...besides you. That's a responsibility we all have, for ourselves. We don't get to make choices for others. That includes what they can, and cannot do, and should and should not say, as well as when and where.(again, barring legal matters, of course...but that's rather irrelevant to the topic, since nothing we've discussed is illegal, lol)

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Tari Landar wrote:

I can think of a lot of things not considered social norms that get people crapped on. Not to make light of anything said here, and of course all situations are different. But I don't honestly believe someone stating they participate in something, are a certain way, believe a certain thing, or whatever other terminology needs to be used based on the scenario....as feeling as though they are more "special" and needing to show that. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say without making light of what I know(not from personal experience, but from what I've seen and friends/family members have gone though) is a very delicate area, usually met with a great deal of ridicule, and I try my best to be mindful of the thoughts of others at all times.

No one should have to *not* tell people, simply because others will react in a manner less than savory. We shouldn't live our lives and dictate them based off the reactions we *might* get. I think people should be able to openly discuss whatever they want-again barring anything legal that would otherwise prevent them. If people don't like it, they can simply not listen. But no need to tell others they shouldn't declare, or discuss, or behave in a certain manner, simply because it's not a path your life has gone down.

No one is responsible for your reactions, thoughts or feelings...besides you. That's a responsibility we all have, for ourselves. We don't get to make choices for others. That includes what they can, and cannot do, and should and should not say, as well as when and where.(again, barring legal matters, of course...but that's rather irrelevant to the topic, since nothing we've discussed is illegal, lol)

I understand exactly what you're saying.  I don't feel "special" because I'm gay and I certainly don't want any special treatment because of it.  I find that a lot of times, straight people find it hard to understand that by stating I'm gay, in one way or another (considering that fact that I never just come out and say it, unless someone asks me directly), I'm not flaunting anything, I'm not trying to throw it in anyone's faces and I'm certainly not saying that I deserve any greater consideration than anyone else.  I'm merely being true to who I am and being gay is part of what makes me me.

I sometimes talk about my significant other (who happens to be male) or how hot I think someone is (you know... like Alexander Skarsgård); I sometimes practice the art of innuendo which will usually be indicative of the sort of attractions I feel (meaning, toward other men); I may even, at times, talk about issues that are specific to a group of people with which I identify (in other words, gay)... but this is nothing that any other person wouldn't do in the course of their existence, no matter their sexual preference.  I get a bit miffed when people accuse me of being overly vocal, when I'm not doing anything that any other straight person might do at any given time.

The mere suggestion that homosexual people, who flaunt their sexuality, should just STFU infuriates me... heterosexual people are always flaunting their sexuality, but you don't hear me saying they need to keep it to themselves.

...Dres

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The issue is morality not sexual preference. One can be sexually immoral no matter what their sexual preference is. Also, sexuality has to do with the body and has little to do with the true self  which has no sexual orientation. The brain is male or female, but not intelligence or awareness. One has thoughts but doesn't have to be thoughts. Simply put, you have a body, you are not the body. Though I'm sure one can totally identify with the body as the self if they choose to.

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Freeroos wrote:

The issue is morality not sexual preference. One can be sexually immoral no matter what their sexual preference is. Also, sexuality has to do with the body and has little to do with the true self  which has no sexual orientation. The brain is male or female, but not intelligence or awareness. One has thoughts but doesn't have to be thoughts. Simply put, you have a body, you are not the body. Though I'm sure one can totally identify with the body as the self if they choose to.

I'm not sure what morals has to do with anything that's been discussed thus far. I also can't quite tell where you're going with this reply, lol.  I do know that not everyone shares the same morals. What's immoral to you(general), might not be for someone else. But, again, not real sure what that has to do with what's been said, or how it even fits into this kind of conversation. I don't think anyone was discussing whether or not being gay is immoral.

If you're referring to the original topic, two men being together in public, that too has absolutely nothing at all to do with morals. If you're talking about openly stating one's sexual preference, again nothing at all to do with morals.

Could you clarify what it is you're referring to?

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Some people have asked why those of us who are not heterosexual feel the need to make that clear. Why, here in SL, do we make our inclinations so obvious? We really do that far more in SL than in RL. I've never met anyone in RL for instance who said, "Hi, nice to meet you. By the way, I'm a lesbian." But here in SL thousands of us have that sort of information on the first page of our profiles which could be considered a first introduction. Why? Here's my reason, or at least the one I started with.

I'm transgender. A t-girl*. We know that here in SL we are going to look a lot like females (far more than the vast majority of us ever has in RL). We want to make sure the fact we aren't is known from the start. Contrary to some popular fictional themes, t-girls do not want men to think they're really women and find out they are NOT at, shall we say, the last minute. If you meet a t-girl in SL who does not make her situation clear in her profile bio, you'll have seen something I never have.

There is another reason for having my transgenderedness in my profile, and it is the reason I never changed it. That reason, at least for me, is far more significant and meaningful than anything to do with sex and relationships but it would make this long post even longer. Maybe I'll get back to it.

*There are transgenders of both sexes, so while t-girl can always be used as a synonym for transgender the reverse is not true. Female-to-male transgenders do not appear to be anywhere near as numerous as MTF but they are there.

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There’s another reason people state they are lesbians in profile. It’s because they are straight men in real life playing lesbian female avatars in second life and as straight men in real life, getting hit on by other men in second life freaks them out. So it’s a way for men role-playing females to make sure only females hit on them, which also tend to be other men role-playing females in a lot of cases.

The point about original topic is we are not our bodies, we have a body. And whatever our real life body is sex wise, it has nothing to do with what it is in sl. I have met a lot of men playing female avatars in sl and roleplaying lesbians. It’s actually more than role playing its making up a fake real life story that “proves” they are also female in real life. Also, I know women who plays males in second life and marry women in second life who believe they are male in real life as well.

The amount of men who play lesbians in sl and on net as whole is huge. Myspace used to have lesbian groups who traded pics and were something like 99% males as far as real gender. If you see two men in second life standing together and start to wonder what their real life sexual orientation is, number one you are probably a sex addict, but besides your obsession with sex, another thing you might want to consider is the fact sl sex has nothing to do with rl sex. Males play females and females play males in a lot of cases. Playing various sexual orientations in sl and sexes don’t make it anymore real than roleplaying a goblin or monster in warcraft. It’s fantasy nothing more unless you disclose what you are in real life and so does partner and nobody is lying. Even then, it’s in the realm of fantasy though says more about what you are in real life as far as orientations.

Every animal on this planet has sex. It exists to make the species continue that’s about it. It has a strong pleasure drug like component to it to ensure we do it and the species continues. But it is not who we are. It’s a pleasure or a way to make a baby. A pleasure like eating ice cream or whatever. To get your identity or to judge others based on such a trivial thing makes not much sense. It’s how you treat yourself and others what defines you, how moral and compassionate you are, how free and open you are. So I see two males standing together I don’t care what they do to get off. All I care about is if they have morals and ethics and are kind people. That’s what I judge them on and how I define them. The body is something we have for a few years then let go of. It is not us.

It always seems odd to me to define yourself or others based on something you do for pleasure. Imagine helping some old lady cross the street then you get to the other side and she says, “so are you strait or gay?” What does that say about the old ladies morals and intelligence? Why is she preoccupied with such an unimportant thing? A thing that says nothing about who you are?

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Freeroos wrote:

There’s another reason people state they are lesbians in profile. It’s because they are straight men in real life playing lesbian female avatars in second life and as straight men in real life, getting hit on by other men in second life freaks them out. So it’s a way for men role-playing females to make sure only females hit on them, which also tend to be other men role-playing females in a lot of cases.

The point about original topic is we are not our bodies, we have a body. And whatever our real life body is sex wise, it has nothing to do with what it is in sl.

What  you say may be true for many in SL; I've heard much the same. I doubt you or anyone else can claim anything like an accurate ratio of RL males vs RL females who are female in SL. Suffice it to say it certainly happens. For me, my sexuality is quite important to my SL experience, considering it is really the reason I came here to begin with: to allow myself to continue to be something in the virtual world that I could, or would, no longer permit myself to be in the real world.

What I meant when I said I'd found another reason why being publicly TG here mattered is this: I learned that it really is not an impediment to being a part of this whole society we have here. I am listened to (or ignored), I am liked (or disliked) based not on what I am, but who I am. Try as we might, RL isn't like that. An example I've used elsewhere is that in SL perfectly heterosexual males have no problem making me part of public conversations. I even have three on my friend list. In RL it would take a very real effort for any straight guy to even acknowledge a known t-girl in the presence of his male friends. Here, because of the anonymity, he doesn't have to consider things like that.

I think that is sort of what you were suggesting. My change is that in fact being TG really is something I am, not just 'something I do for pleasure'.

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Is about people all the time.

 

If 2 girls walk on a street or a dance together at a ballroom, people thinks is normal and many man that even turns on.

Me and my boyfriend-when we are walking in SL people tend to be nice. We avoid a gay comunity as there is nothing special for us. Me and my boyfriend likes to walk on a beach, sitting in restaurant or dancing in a ballroom. Sadly, even there are friendly people, there are still haters who would make fun of it.

I must admit there are also 2 men friends in SL, means not every guys who sit next to each other must be gay at all.  As the question of the topic is stated - 2 girls together-completaly normal---2 guys together- for many not normal.

But at the end. I love my boyfriend and I surely do not care what others thinks as we both are grown person :-) SL is full of kids so you get in trouble easily :-)

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Oh dang it Freeroos, now you made me want ice cream :P

I think some of the things you said apply to some, but certainly not all, and I do hope you didn't intend the assertions to be as all encompassing as it seamed like they came accross. But everyone has to go from experience. Yea, there's a lot of that type of stuff in SL. Perhaps you've yet to meet the people who can only be their true selves here because whatever in their RL prevents it, thus...they have only this world...

I have to strongly disagree with any comparision between an RP game like wow (wow is actually only borderline RP anyway and it's RP community has shriveled in the least 3-4 years to almost nothing). lol, I've never met anyone in wow claiming to be expressing their 'inner gnome' no matter what their stature in RL or how much they may have just been joking, and people there don't consider it a life, but a game, and the characters there are game characters. And wow does have it's share of obsesso-freak video game junkies.

I guess for people that only use RP sims in SL or use an alt to RP, then SL might be that shallow, and sure it's true anyone can cook up the other gender avi to go explore options. That's actually light years away from people that make an avi that is the expression of them inside and commence to live it here  for better or worse. It's not even close to accurate to say it's extremely emersive RP. Not even in the same universe, sorry, it just isn't.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...


Tarina Sewell wrote:


Bree Giffen wrote:

If you see two guys together in SL, sitting at a welcome area, sailing on a boat, shopping, etc., do you just assume they are gay? How about two girls together?

 if they were singing "I feel pretty oh so pretty".. yes!

Two words.. "Anger Management"

Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson.

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Bree Giffen wrote:

If you see two guys together in SL, sitting at a welcome area, sailing on a boat, shopping, etc., do you just assume they are gay? How about two girls together?

Can't say I ever throught about it one way or another. Wouldn't care if they were.

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