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Deltango Vale

Should CCP buy Second Life?

22 posts in this topic

I might be wrong about this (I usually am) but, didn't Rod Humble work for EA? Somehow it would seem appropriate.:smileywink:

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Wow! Pretty dang interesting stuff considering LL's employees relationship with EA. Looks like they all got out just in time. Now, they have to deal with us, lol.

@Ayesha - I think Rod and Will Wright(board member) both worked for EA, as well as a bunch more Lindens.

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CCP is building World of Darkness. That will likely soak a vast portion of revenue out of SL when it is done.Maybe. Depends on how it turns out.

Oh, and to the naysayers, yes the work is continuing. WoD was never canceled. Re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf_xGH0v93U

So no. Why should CCP buy SL?

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Yeah, LL would have to want to sell before SL would be sold.  But that's irrelevant in a rumor (or an attempt to get a rumor started).

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Deltango Vale wrote:

I was looking around at MMORPGs and stumbled upon the following:

Well, I sure hope EA doesn't buy SL.

Then I stumbled upon EVE Online. Should CCP Games buy Second Life? If so, should SL be maintained as a separate world or merged in some way into the EVE universe?

The following story about CCP will sound eerily familiar, I think...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-19-ccp-to-reduce-headcount-by-20-percent-to-concentrate-on-eve

And for some perspective on troubles for the console gaming industry in general...

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/03/23/3-ways-the-video-game-business-could-bounce-back/

Note in particular TIm Cook's comments in bullet #2 of that article.

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methinks LL should buy EA. 

Using LL, SL, AE, I would rename the company as LaLESS.

 

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I called it years ago. Not cause I'm some gameguru, cause I would hardly be called a gamer. The console is a 1985 product and still runs the same way. It had some advantages early on when competing with a PC, mainly because nobody wanted to pay 2000 for a PC good enough to equal the console. Personally, I was never a console player. I've always hated using a controller and once I started playing PC First Person Shooters, the difference was incredible, besides the fact that PC games generally have alot more content, and levels to their games. The PC made games epic. It's just too bad that most of the world didn't see that. The gaming companies are like teenager wanting to follow the trendy people instead of being the ones to make the trends.

We see the same thing now with handhelds. Now, game companies are mainly throwing epic out the window for simple games. It is an extremely bad move for any major gaming company, and very short sighted. It's ridiculous to think a large game company can support itself on those business models. OMG, and touch screen, how much more limiting can you get?

The other side of the coin is exactly what Ann pointed to with WOD. Now, I have no experience at all with CCP, but look how they are running the company. LL did the same thing. You get popular, you make some money, then you spend all that money on expanding. We see this with brick and mortar franchises all the time. 1 year you see 20 of the same stores open on every corner, and 3 years down the road, more than half are gone. With WOD, they been working on it for almost 5 years, and they have 50 people working on it. WTF are all those people doing? I mean really. How many people does it take to make a f---ing game. At the max, you need 10-15 talented people, not 50. To give them some credit, they mentioned that they needed to created alot of different system that they didn't have in the EVE engine, or something like that.

This brings me to my final point. How the hell do you pay for all those people when they work for you for 5 years and never produce an actual product? It's almost like there is no1 actually running the place and making those big decisions.

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As an avid Eve player I can say that there's no way Eve could be merged into SL. You could use the platform though and make a second product that wouldn't be part of the actual Second Life Grid.

I think CCP has their hands full with Dust 514 and WoD to take on Second Life. And if EA buys Linden Labs or Second Life I'm jumping to the opengrid and not looking back.

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Let me tell a story. About ten years ago, I played a series of games: Myst, Riven, Zork Nemesis and Myst III. I loved these games. I had a BF who was into Command & Conquer: Tiberium Sun, but I never cared for wargames. I loved the puzzles, the strange and beautiful worlds, the music. Not much happened after that until I encountered Second Life. I have been completely absorbed by SL for over 5 years.

As is well known, I believe Linden Lab has failed to realize SL's enormous potential. I believe SL is now about three years behind the curve and unlikely to recover. I believe Linden Lab is neither capable nor willing to develop or promote Second Life. I believe LL will simply sell SL in order to reinvest the proceeds in new ventures.

Two things struck me recently. First, I dug out an old copy of Myst (which won't play on Windows 7). Second, I interviewed a bunch of teenage girls about The Hunger Games. Putting all the pieces together, I started searching for MMORPGs that might be mutating away from blood & guts warfare toward Second Life territory. At the risk of starting a war here in this thread, let me say that WoW is not the answer. Then, unexpectedly, I discovered EVE.

Okay, well, I can see that I will need at least two years to even begin to qualify as a noob in EVE. From what I have read and seen on YouTube, EVE has the steepest learning curve in the history of the human race. In other words, it takes as much time to learn EVE as to get a doctorate in astrophysics. BUT I was impressed by the 'emergent' complexity of the world. It is Second Life on steroids and cocaine. It has 300,000 residents (95% male), most of whom probably already have a doctorate in astrophysics. It is ten years old and has roughly the same revenue stream as Linden Lab.

Right. EVE is for boys and SL is for girls. The Hunger Games is also for girls. Imagine, then, if a feminine component were added to EVE. I don't mean converting EVE into a doll house; I mean adding the whole universe of SL fashion and design, interpersonal relationships and social networking to EVE.

While at first glance the two worlds seem incompatible, they share similar economic systems and 'emergent' philosophies. In many ways, EVE overlaps the VR space that Second Life should have filled three years ago. I doubt SL can ever catch up. The big question I ask myself is whether an 'SL2' could be integrated into EVE in such a way as to provide a user-generated, creative economy to offset the emphasis on warfare. Perhaps a protected galaxy could be added with a new 'race' (EVE terminology) of 'designers', 'builders' and 'socialites'.

As for World of Darkness, no, it's not the same thing. It's a story system. Moreover, The Hunger Games has probably destroyed the vampire space. If it were me, I'd shut down WoD completely. It seems Linden Lab wants to take SL toward a story system like WoD. I believe this is a mistake. I believe the true value of virtual worlds is economic. By buying SL and integrating it into EVE, I believe CCP could dominate the VR industry for the next 30 years.

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umm ccp diverted a chunk of those resources to work on other ccp projects for a while that were a higher priority. Also keep in mind WoD will have no user generated content. But it will have dynamic cloth using nvidia APEX. So SL hardcore rpg vamps won't like the no UGC part but all the gameplay features may pull them in anyway.

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Hell, I still wish Microsoft would buy SL.

Yes, get rid of Metro and turn the desktop into a stand-alone sim that can be connected to a Peer-To-Peer grid. What's not to like? But seriously, the point at which it would have made sense for Microsoft to buy SL passed in 2007. And, given Microsoft's habit of shuttering perfectly good products that aren't making enough profit [anyone remember Live Spaces?] they would have shut SL down long ago.

I'm quite happy with things the way they are at the moment: one company tied to SL. That gives them a real need to succeed rather than being shunted onto the back burner while newer trendier products get all the dev time.

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Like  the alternative products LL are developing now, instead of SL, you mean? "Best known for Second Life®, Linden Lab will grow its digital entertainment offering by launching several new stand-alone products this year" (http://lindenlab.com/press/releases/12_02_16)

Meanwhile, back in the virtual world - what EVE, WoD, WoW, etc. all have is a pre-existing setting and conventions.  Whether a world is created for fantasy combat, sci-fi trading, noir story-telling or anything else it limits itself and its audience in a way that SL doesn't.  That may or may not be a good thing - someone joining WoW for the first time now knows what to expect whereas in SL it's still this great big wide-open world where most people have no idea what to do because no-one tells them and there are no conventions to guide them.

Some of us love that openess of course, but it's undeniably unattractive to newbies who are looking for "a game to play" rather than "a world to inhabit"

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Meanwhile, back in the virtual world - what EVE, WoD, WoW, etc. all have is a pre-existing setting and conventions.  Whether a world is created for fantasy combat, sci-fi trading, noir story-telling or anything else it limits itself and its audience in a way that SL doesn't.  That may or may not be a good thing - someone joining WoW for the first time now knows what to expect whereas in SL it's still this great big wide-open world where most people have
no idea what to do
 because no-one tells them and there are no conventions to guide them.

Some of us love that openess of course, but it's undeniably unattractive to newbies who are looking for "a game to play" rather than "a world to inhabit"

Indeed! The 'blank canvas' aspect of SL is the big draw for me. Games, although they dwarf SL commercially are really just a subset of what SL is.

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eewww no on all accounts. I don't see EA as anywhere near what SL needs. EA is a great game developer, they put out some really interactive and popular games. The Mass Effect series is huge in my house. Kingdoms of Amalur, another awesome single player RPG that I hear may be converted to a MMO. Battlefield, Dragon Age, etc. Tons of great games. But SL? No way. Honestly, I would consider that a money sink for them and would be a bad investment on their part. But then again, I haven't heard of any rumors of SL wanting to sell, so I'm not sure where this would even be a thought.

As far as Eve goes, I don't see why it would be merged at all. With Dust 514 coming out this year I don't know why they would want to. Both of those games are FAR more advanced than SL is and even considering Even, Dust 514...and SL together? Personally that would become the silliest game that ever was destroyed.

WoD does look interesting, my husband and I have been watching the previews for that but I'm a little concerned to be honest. Typically...vampire games that involve any aspect of MMO end up turning into a sexual escapade in the back alley. It won't be to any fault of the game, it looks decently designed, but from what I've experienced in RPing as a vampire, they are closely tied to a profile of a sensual nature. That's just due to how people perceive vampires and how stories are told, they tend to be very seductive. That's not a bad thing at all either! Just not sure if it's possible to lead that to a successful gaming franchise.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

This brings me to my final point. How the hell do you pay for all those people when they work for you for 5 years and never produce an actual product? It's almost like there is no1 actually running the place and making those big decisions.

 

They pay for it with previous games. It's all about cash flow.

I'll tell you what though, I am surprised it was EA on the list for the worst company and not Activision. Bobby Kotick is one of the greediest dudes on the planet and every decision he makes is all about him and his bottom line...not about the player. Of course you have to make money or you'd go out of business but when you cater only to your pocket and not the player, you are actually hurting your pocket more than you realize.

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Zork Nemesis :smileysurprised: my first ever comp game.

It used to stutter badly on my friends PC but we didnt know any better and played it all the way through lol.

The beautiful haunting violin and differing worlds is what fascinated me the most.

 

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Deja Letov wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

This brings me to my final point. How the hell do you pay for all those people when they work for you for 5 years and never produce an actual product? It's almost like there is no1 actually running the place and making those big decisions.

 

They pay for it with previous games. It's all about cash flow.

I'll tell you what though, I am surprised it was EA on the list for the worst company and not Activision. Bobby Kotick is one of the greediest dudes on the planet and every decision he makes is all about him and his bottom line...not about the player. Of course you have to make money or you'd go out of business but when you cater only to your pocket and not the player, you are actually hurting your pocket more than you realize.

That's really my point. Companies get comfortable and think they can do all this work for no profit. They lose the fire under the a$$ to actually produce something. In the case of EA and Activision, they don't actually want to develop anything anymore, they are just trying to find everyway possible to nickle and dime customers, looking at data too much.

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Ann Otoole wrote:

umm ccp diverted a chunk of those resources to work on other ccp projects for a while that were a higher priority. Also keep in mind WoD will have no user generated content. But it will have dynamic cloth using nvidia APEX. So SL hardcore rpg vamps won't like the no UGC part but all the gameplay features may pull them in anyway.

Yeah, but having to divert resources is not a good sign, tho I will say that all game companies seem to have trouble maintaining the communities needs. At least, that is what I see. Many unanticipated community issues.

Although the concept art was quite impressive, that's what concept art is for tho. I watched the whole video and it was an extreme let down to see their "gameplay" video, which was not gameplay at all. They should not have even shown that last video. Big deal, a spooky environment. Some of the ideas sounded cool, like fighting to lead the clan, but overall, I'm not really impressed at all. Of course, we can't really know untill they actually show some real gameplay.

Will WOD pull users away from SL? I seriously doubt it for many reasons. There are already games with vampires in them. I'm sure WOD will look stunning, but I'm not so sure they can even come close to matching the diversity in SL. No Werewolves to start with. That's just f--ked up. You can't make a vampire game without Lycans. To many users, Lycans are way cooler than vampires. Plus, given the track record of the WOD project, who knows how much longer it will take to release it. In that same time, we can make many advancements in gameplay, here in SL. And, we already have dozens of Werewolves, lol.

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